Watching the LR Touchdown Club and Landers

[Hawgphish]

Watching all the awards given out to Arkansas High School football players, I see that several of them have D1 offers but were not offered by Arkansas.  Just wondering why we don't at least offer those kids.  Why not.  We have 85 scholarships why not take a chance.  If I am way off, I am sure ya'll will set me straight.

[AirWarren]

Watching all the awards given out to Arkansas High School football players, I see that several of them have D1 offers but were not offered by Arkansas.  Just wondering why we don't at least offer those kids.  Why not.  We have 85 scholarships why not take a chance.  If I am way off, I am sure ya'll will set me straight.

The Warren qb that won the Paul Eels award is going to OBU.

[CrookedSquealliry]

Got to go to Denmark to find the good ones.

[AirWarren]

Got to go to Denmark to find the good ones.

The Nashville running back. Could play for the hogs. No question.

[Iwastherein1969]

The Nashville running back. Could play for the hogs. No question.

not with that pumpkin looking helmet he has worn the past 3 years...or maybe that would go well with anthracite

[sowmonella]

25 max schollys per year. 85 total on team. Not all are SEC type players. Congrats and good luck to them all

[RazorbackToTheFuture]

If they want to play 4 quarters sign them up.

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

1. Eligibility
2. See #1
3. See #2

[Hawgphish]

1. Eligibility
2. See #1
3. See #2

i understand, eligibility is valid.  Just thinking why don't we identify the top 5 or so instate and offer them.  We all know that we have a lot of players on scholly that are not SEC so why not take a chance on Arkansas kids.  With that being said, I probably would not be thinking about this if we were killing it in recruiting.

[colbs]

i understand, eligibility is valid.  Just thinking why don't we identify the top 5 or so instate and offer them.  We all know that we have a lot of players on scholly that are not SEC so why not take a chance on Arkansas kids.  With that being said, I probably would not be thinking about this if we were killing it in recruiting.

They do identify the top players they think who are in the state and offer them.

[3kgthog]

There are very few in-staters that past head Hogs have truly missed on. That's not including the ones like DeAngelo Williams that basically were Hogs up until the morning of signing day. It wasn't for a lack of effort.

[onebadrubi]

Watching all the awards given out to Arkansas High School football players, I see that several of them have D1 offers but were not offered by Arkansas.  Just wondering why we don't at least offer those kids.  Why not.  We have 85 scholarships why not take a chance.  If I am way off, I am sure ya'll will set me straight.

Please list some us some names that we have missed on and did not take a better player in the draft class?  I'll give you a hint on one recent. Kenneth Dixon, he was missed by EVERY sec coach and most coaches around D1. 

[hoggusamoungus]

Please list some us some names that we have missed on and did not take a better player in the draft class?  I'll give you a hint on one recent. Kenneth Dixon, he was missed by EVERY sec coach and most coaches around D1.

In the years (2013-15) Dixon overlapped with Alex Collins, he gained 3,300 yards vs. Collins' 3,700.

[factchecker]

i understand, eligibility is valid.  Just thinking why don't we identify the top 5 or so instate and offer them.  We all know that we have a lot of players on scholly that are not SEC so why not take a chance on Arkansas kids.  With that being said, I probably would not be thinking about this if we were killing it in recruiting.

How many "non-offer" misses do we have?


Top 10 in-state recruits since Bielema has been here:

2013

Hunter Henry            Signed by Arkansas           Mackey Award Winner- San Diego Charger
Altee Tenpenny         Signed by Bama   (was offered)                            -
Brooks Ellis               Signed by Arkansas           Starting Linebacker (graduated)
Austin Allen              Signed by Arkansas            Starting Quarterback
Jamar Criswell           ?                                                   -
Martrell Spaight        Signed by Arkansas (JUCO)   Linebacker for Redskins
Tevin Beanum           Signed by Arkansas             In 2 deep
Korliss Marshall         Signed by Arkansas             Transfer to Eastern Illinois
Phillip Hay                 Signed by Harvard                              ?
Alex Brignoni             Signed by Arkansas             Medical Hardship

2014

Bijhon Jackson          Signed by Arkansas           In 2-deep rotation
Joshua Frazier           Signed by Bama (was offered)  In 2-deep rotation (made tackle in playoff game)
Jabe Burgess             Signed by Tulsa                Transfer to Mississippi Gulf Coast CC (JUCO)
Josh Liddell               Signed by Arkansas           Starting Safety
Deandre Murray         Signed by Tulsa                Transfer to D2 Pittsburg State
Jake Hall                   Signed by Arkansas           Buried in depth chart
Juan Day                   Signed by Arkansas           Injuries
Jack Kraus                 Signed by Arkansas           2 deep rotation
Jarvis Cooper             Signed by Memphis            Transfer to UCA
Isaac Johnson            Signed by Tulsa                     ?

2015

K.J. Hill                     Signed by Ohio State   (was offered)       Getting some playing time
C.J. O'Grady              Signed by Arkansas                             Getting playing time (caught TD in bowl game)
Will Gragg                 Signed by Arkansas                              To be Determined
Jamario Bell               Signed by Arkansas                             To be Determined
Dominique Reed         Signed by Arkansas (from JUCO)           Was key weapon in passing game last season
Justin Bailey               Signed by Arkansas Tech                                  ?
Ross Trail                   Signed by Cincinnati                              Played sparingly--threw for 1 TD and 6 INTs in 2016
Ty Storey                    Signed by Arkansas                              Buried in depth
LaMichael Pettway        Signed by Arkansas                              Caught TD pass vs. Alcorn
Deon Stewart               Signed by Arkansas                              Rotates in depth/ Kick Return

2016

McTelvin Agim             Signed by Arkansas                            Starting defensive linemen
T.J. Hammonds           Signed by Arkansas                             Bright future in running back rotation
John Tate                   Signed by Memphis                               Redshirt?
Austin Capps               Signed by Arkansas                             Rotates in the two deep
Jordan Jones               Signed by Arkansas                              To be Determined- Redshirt
Kabion Ento                 Signed by Colorado                               8 catches/174 yards -- 2 TDs
Nick McCann                Signed by Texas Tech                           Redshirt?
Damerea Crockett         Signed by Missouri                               Rushed for over 1000 yards
Cam Murray                 Signed by Okie State                              Redshirt  ?
Kenyon Jackson            Signed by Minnesota                             Redshirt


2013: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2013&position=&state=3

2014: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2014&position=&state=3

2015: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2015&position=&state=3

2016: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2016&position=&state=3

23 out of top 40 recruits have stayed with Arkansas.

I would say that Crockett was a miss but who knows what he would have done here.  He probably would have been red-shirted.

How many others were no offer misses?  Maybe Ento.

[factchecker]

I probably would not be thinking about this if we were killing it in recruiting.

We aren't killing it but we are doing better than we've done in the past:

2002: 25  http://247sports.com/Season/2002-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2003: 42  http://247sports.com/Season/2003-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2004: 24  http://247sports.com/Season/2004-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2005: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2005-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2006: 25  http://247sports.com/Season/2006-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2007: 38  http://247sports.com/Season/2007-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Houston Nutt's Average Recruiting Class(final 6 cycles):  30.3

2008: 27  http://247sports.com/Season/2008-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2009: 21  http://247sports.com/Season/2009-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2010: 41  http://247sports.com/Season/2010-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2011: 21  http://247sports.com/Season/2011-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2012: 28  http://247sports.com/Season/2012-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Bobby Petrino's Average Recruiting Class: 27.6

2013: 23  http://247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2014: 29  http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2015: 23  http://247sports.com/Season/2015-Football/CompositeTeamRankings
2016: 26  http://247sports.com/Season/2016-Football/CompositeTeamRankings

Bret Bielema's Average Recruiting Class: 25.25

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

They cannot evaluate every player, no one can so there will always be some gems that go undiscovered. Then you have the issue of eligibility.

Just for the record, they never went to DK to look for players, he was playing at an Ohio HS at the time and then a prep school in the US.

As for the many awards ... many of those awards are given out every year so there may be a huge difference in the caliber of two players that got the same award back to back.

What we need IMO is a better pipeline that includes a state-wide mentoring program to get more kids ready for college (AKA eligible), and 2-3 junior colleges with solid football programs that can feed the Hogs.

Ahh yeah, and some politicians that can disguise the creation of these feeder schools as something that was done for educational reasons.

[factchecker]

What we need IMO is a better pipeline that includes a state-wide mentoring program to get more kids ready for college (AKA eligible), and 2-3 junior colleges with solid football programs that can feed the Hogs.

I agree.  We also need some more private schools.  We need a couple of IMG type academies to recruit the best athletes who are in at-risk situations.  Get them off the street and keep them motivated.  Put them in an environment that will get them academically eligible while removing the bad influences.

This will never happen because the state has a backwards sense of hate toward private schools.

[Dr. Starcs]

People in nwa are all about football, but the quality of the sport/athlete at the high school level is awful.

[onebadrubi]

In the years (2013-15) Dixon overlapped with Alex Collins, he gained 3,300 yards vs. Collins' 3,700.

Well of course, but Dixon would qualify by most as a miss, and we would have loved to have him with Collins as you see it now.  What I am saying is not to belittle Collins in any way, but when you have to almost reach to find a miss dating back to Deangelo Williams, people like the Original Poster are often bias or agenda driven... And these subjects are pointless even though they are discussed here and the recruiting forum one way or another often. 

[factchecker]

Well of course, but Dixon would qualify by most as a miss, and we would have loved to have him with Collins as you see it now.  What I am saying is not to belittle Collins in any way, but when you have to almost reach to find a miss dating back to Deangelo Williams, people like the Original Poster are often bias or agenda driven... And these subjects are pointless even though they are discussed here and the recruiting forum one way or another often. 

The biggest issue about Dixon is that he was a Petrino miss and would have been here in 2012.  He ran for 1194 yards and 27 touchdowns his freshman season (2012).

Would Dixon have helped here?  Would he have stayed after all the mess?

It would have been nice to have added Collins to the backfield of Dixon and Williams.  We wouldn't need to take a chance or Korliss Marshall.

[hoggusamoungus]

Well of course, but Dixon would qualify by most as a miss, and we would have loved to have him with Collins as you see it now.  What I am saying is not to belittle Collins in any way, but when you have to almost reach to find a miss dating back to Deangelo Williams, people like the Original Poster are often bias or agenda driven... And these subjects are pointless even though they are discussed here and the recruiting forum one way or another often.

I posted the comparison to agree with you that while we may have "missed" on Dixon, someone as good or better was found.

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

People in nwa are all about football, but the quality of the sport/athlete at the high school level is awful.

Yeah looks awful .....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Arkansas_state_high_school_football_champions

[Dr. Starcs]

Compared to other sec states, it is.

[factchecker]

Compared to other sec states, it is.

So you are saying the whole state of Arkansas' talent is crappy or are you saying that the rest of the state is too stupid to put their best athletes on the field to win a state title?

[Dr. Starcs]

More so the first.

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

Compared to other sec states, it is.

So it has nothing to do with NWA

[hamsam]

The Nashville running back. Could play for the hogs. No question.

Lol. Wrong...

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

So it has nothing to do with NWA

Yeah, but that doesn't prop up his bias.

[Dr. Starcs]

You guys keep thinking how great the state is in football, particularly nwa.

How's that working out for the Hogs?

[factchecker]

You guys keep thinking how great the state is in football, particularly nwa.

How's that working out for the Hogs?

Who are you arguing with?

I don't think anyone is claiming high school football in Arkansas is great.

You brought up NWA for some unknown reason.  Everybody else was asking about kids from south Arkansas (Warren and Nashville).

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

You guys keep thinking how great the state is in football, particularly nwa.

How's that working out for the Hogs?

Textbook...

[bennyl08]

I agree.  We also need some more private schools.  We need a couple of IMG type academies to recruit the best athletes who are in at-risk situations.  Get them off the street and keep them motivated.  Put them in an environment that will get them academically eligible while removing the bad influences.

This will never happen because the state has a backwards sense of hate toward private schools.

Backwards sense of hate? More often than not, forcing private schools is the backwards solution.

There are two types of private schools that I am familiar with. Expensive and religious private schools. Accounting for demographics, public schools are just as successful as the expensive private schools, and religious schools, don't want to get the thread locked, but I'm guessing you can figure out where they stand academically relative to public schools as well.

Moving past that, I'm not really aware at all of athletic private schools other than IMG exists, though I do know that several schools "recruit" players from other schools to play for them. What is the benefit of a school like IMG? I'd imagine it would be very expensive. Is it the equivalent of the high school musical type art schools that focus on arts rather than other subjects except in this case, athletics? Or does it at least pretend to be a real school, but somehow the athletes there are all A students. Further, private school and 'at risk' students seldom go hand in hand. Large majority of athletes who struggle with grades or unsavory extracurriculars have one thing in common. Low income households. Football is one of the most expensive sports to play with all the pads and equipment you have to buy as well as the high demand for coaches and such. Couple that with private schools frequently being more expensive than the UofA even, and the at risk students are almost guaranteed to not be able to afford a week at that school, much less anything else. Unless that school offers scholarships or some really shady stuff goes down. About the only way a private school like that gets piss poor athletes to come there is if you have money being funneled into the school from somewhere. If people out of the goodness of their hearts want to help, it would be exceptionally easier and cheaper to simply help them in public school. So, we can eliminate that. Meaning, you either have money being graciously "donated" by college boosters and coaches and whathaveyou with the tether that their college gets a not, or the school banks on 'donations' from any of the players that goes to the NFL. Donations being in quotations due to them likely not being voluntary.

Those are just musings using knowledge of private schools researched previously from education reform debates and some anecdotal evidence and applying logic to that admittedly incomplete logic. Namely, incomplete in having basically no knowledge of how a 'school' like IGM academy works. I appreciate and look forward to you helping complete my knowledge and ideally and hopefully illustrating why a sports based private school would be different from the other types and how that would work to improve a kids ability to get to college.

[factchecker]

What is the benefit of a school like IMG? I'd imagine it would be very expensive.

Getting kids out of bad situations, away from crap influences, and into a motivated, positive environment.  Expensive is relative when they have waivers.

Is it the equivalent of the high school musical type art schools that focus on arts rather than other subjects except in this case, athletics? Or does it at least pretend to be a real school, but somehow the athletes there are all A students.

Pretend to be a "real" school?  I don't want to get this thread locked either but there are plenty of public schools in Arkansas who are failing miserably at being "real schools".

I appreciate and look forward to you helping complete my knowledge and ideally and hopefully illustrating why a sports based private school would be different from the other types and how that would work to improve a kids ability to get to college.

The major difference/benefit would be giving parents an alternative, athletic focused school to send their kids. Removing the limitation of district lines.  The school choice act was a great thing for families in Arkansas.  I believe that there needs to be multiple educational options for families.  Academies created for religions, arts, math/science, athletic can be a great thing as long as they adhere to the state and federal guidelines.  I think private schools, public charters, or even military academies are better options then some of the public schools out there.

You are correct that donations and massive funding would be needed to start up an IMG type academy.  I understand that operating a school is a massive undertaking.  I just see tax money being blown in god awful schools. 

If a sports academy isn't feasible then perhaps a military based academy would be.  Hargrave Military Academy is a great example of a college preparatory boarding school.  https://www.hargrave.edu/

[bennyl08]

Getting kids out of bad situations, away from crap influences, and into a motivated, positive environment.  Expensive is relative when they have waivers.

This is what I was hoping you'd expand on. What sort of waivers would a private school offer? Are there scholarships available for private schools for these players? That gets back to, who is funding these scholarships? If you are talking about implementing a voucher program to allow parents to use what would have gone to public schools towards partially funding private school, you are still left with asking families with the least amount of money to spend money they don't have to pay for the rest of the private school while basically dismantling the public school system and thus forcing private schools for anybody wanting a decent education.

Pretend to be a "real" school?  I don't want to get this thread locked either but there are plenty of public schools in Arkansas who are failing miserably at being "real schools".

I don't disagree. What I was going for with that is that the public schools that are failing now do so because of a lack of resources. There are fine arts schools which give students training in whatever art they pursue greatly beyond what any other school could offer, but at the cost of traditional subjects like math, science, and history. That is what I was complaining about with the pretending. The rural and inner city schools at least vaguely make an effort to teach all the subjects. Some of the specialized schools out there would pretty much only teach other subjects as they relate to whatever they specialize in. Personally, I think that is a bad thing.

Further, with it being an athletically specialized school, well, look at academics at the collegiate level. Suffice it to say, education isn't much of a priority. I've known grad students who weren't allowed to grade certain student's work (not at the UofA, but at a certain non-beaver Oregon university) despite being paid to grade. Students wouldn't show for any of the labs, but would miraculously end up with a B. I'd be extremely suspicious of a high school that was geared towards athletics not even pretending to have the athletes be student athletes.

The major difference/benefit would be giving parents an alternative, athletic focused school to send their kids. Removing the limitation of district lines.  The school choice act was a great thing for families in Arkansas.  I believe that there needs to be multiple educational options for families.  Academies created for religions, arts, math/science, athletic can be a great thing as long as they adhere to the state and federal guidelines.  I think private schools, public charters, or even military academies are better options then some of the public schools out there.

You are correct that donations and massive funding would be needed to start up an IMG type academy.  I understand that operating a school is a massive undertaking.  I just see tax money being blown in god awful schools. 

If a sports academy isn't feasible then perhaps a military based academy would be.  Hargrave Military Academy is a great example of a college preparatory boarding school.  https://www.hargrave.edu/

I strongly disagree. Specialization is needed when you get to the graduate equivalent. However, you put kids in religious schools and they'll be indoctrinated and more separated from the rest of the society than if they are in a school with kids with a multitude of beliefs. Similarly for math/science schools. The school down in Hot Springs had some of the most arrogant and conceited kids I ever met, and they even earned it as they were still just on par with similarly intelligent public school kids. Having them in school and making friends with people who are different from them helps them interact with other people better. I can only imagine the level of indoctrination that would happen at a military academy.

I mean, you look at places with poor schools, and they are in poor communities. If a private school could find a way to profit in those places, they'd already be there. So, you are left with sending your kids farther away. Which, for a private school, isn't going to come with a publicly funded bus ride. 63% of households don't have enough money to pay for a 500-1000 dollar emergency. How much extra would such private schools cost and how likely are these at risk kids to be in that 63%?

Competition works great when there is actually a market. For example, toilet paper or TV's. There's already a painful shortage of teachers making the supply of teachers basically a finite one. Further, there's a minimal economic level of attendance. I.e. if there are only 15 kids in a community for a given grade, that community can only realistically sustain one school unless they can afford incredibly expensive tuition. Lets say the teachers are earning 30k a year (about on par with public salaries, underestimate for private). you'd need 3 kids being able to pay 10k a piece just to cover the teacher's salary, much less the other costs. In public schools, typically funding per student (i.e. enough to cover librarians, janitors, administration, secretaries, coaches, books, utilities, lab supplies, facilities and so on) ranges from 4k to 9k depending on where you live with 9k being in places like SoCal where 30k salary wouldn't pay rent for a year in the shadiest of locations at least if you want your commute to be less than 2 hours each way. To have competition, you need the buyer to have the same power as the seller with enough resources to support multiple enterprises. In modern times, you struggle to get a janitorial job without a HS degree or GED equivalent. So, the consumers of education do not have much of a choice to pursue one. Seller of education are extremely resource limited in being able to provide education since despite the near unlimited demand for the product, there aren't enough resources to attract people into the business to teach.

[factchecker]

Solid points Benny.  I think our core goal is the same (better education) but the means are slightly different.

You are much more realistic in your approach.

I agree that a major obstacle is funding.  I'm not sure what the solution is but I would love to elevate Arkansas football (regardless of location -- NWA, Central etc.) to a level to not only benefits the Razorbacks but help kids better their future.

[bennyl08]

Solid points Benny.  I think our core goal is the same (better education) but the means are slightly different.

You are much more realistic in your approach.

I agree that a major obstacle is funding.  I'm not sure what the solution is but I would love to elevate Arkansas football (regardless of location -- NWA, Central etc.) to a level to not only benefits the Razorbacks but help kids better their future.

Yeah.

Arkansas has about 340k high school students. 65% of which have at least reduced lunch prices. If we as a state earmark an additional 100 per student to cover art, debate, band, football, tennis, soccer, drama, and a whole range of extracurricular activities for the ~65% who get assistance paying for lunches, that would be 22M dollars. In 2012, statewide property taxes provided a revenue of 1.0087B dollars. Therefore, this could be funded by a 2.18% increase to property taxes noting that our median property tax rate as a percentage of median household income is 47th in the country (i.e. we have really low tax rates). I'd venture that that 22M would save the state billions of dollars in savings by preventing current and future justice department spendings over decades time as well as lead to increased tax revenue from more people being successful in school which extracurricular activities in general have been shown to do.

Arguably this is way outside the realm of razorback football, but I would slightly disagree. Such a measure would IMO greatly boost participation rates in extra curricular activities which for some students would include football. More people playing football means more potential for recruits. Further, this could mean less stress for families with kids who are struggling to make ends meet. Less stress leads to a better environment which could help their grades or free up the student to not have to work as much and have time to do their school work and thus academically qualify.

I mean, if you wanted to limit it to football, on average you probably only have 5% of the total student body playing football. Assuming an even income distribution, then we are only talking about a 0.1%  increase in property taxes but it obviously wouldn't be fair to only fund football.

[factchecker]

I'd venture that that 22M would save the state billions of dollars in savings by preventing current and future justice department spendings over decades time as well as lead to increased tax revenue from more people being successful in school which extracurricular activities in general have been shown to do.

https://twitter.com/UArkansas/status/817039614024306688

Decision-makers in Texas have proposed an education savings account that would allow all families to take a fraction of their public education financing to a school of their choice, said authors Corey DeAngelis and Patrick Wolf. If the savings account funding amount exceeds the school tuition level, families would be able to use these funds for other educational expenses such as tutoring, textbooks, educational therapy, online learning, and college costs.

DeAngelis is a student in the education policy doctoral program who is a Distinguished Doctoral Fellow. Wolf is holder of the Twenty-First Century Chair in School Choice in the Department of Education Reform. They wanted to investigate the possible impact on society overall of the proposal. They used results from a study they conducted earlier this year on the effect of the Milwaukee voucher program on crime in that city.

"We estimate the impact of the proposed ESA on criminality from 2016 to 2035," the authors explained. "We use crime reduction estimates from our previous study of the impact of the longest-standing private school voucher program in the United States, along with existing estimates of the social costs of misdemeanors and felonies, in order to monetize and forecast impacts for the ESA in Texas..... continued"

[bennyl08]

Reading the actual paper published, they didn't take into account household income of the students. Given that private schools cost a lot more than public, parents who use a voucher program to take their kids to private schools are going to have more disposable income than those who stay in public schools. So, essentially what that study is showing is that income is highly correlated to crime rate and not much more. The other issue is that by taking away money from public schools, you are decreasing money for extra curricular activities, increasing the likelihood that your best teachers will leave, and thus creating a self fulfilling prophecy that scores will be lower and crime rates will be higher. The equivalent of that would be allowing individuals to take say 5 or 6 thousand from the police department to instead hire personal security and then showing that those with personal body guards who are going to cost a lot more than 5 or 6 thousand experience less crime than those relying on the publicly available police who just had their funding decimated.

[buldozer]

If they want to play 4 quarters sign them up.

Thats the thing.... kids from Arkansas that have wanted to play for Arkansas their entire life don't tend to give up when playing for their home state. CBB doesn't get it though. He offers 3-4 a year and sends 20 scollys out of state. Then sits at home 48 hrs wondering why his out-of-staters laid down in the second half of two consecutive games..... maybe they don't have the pride in a small southern state like in-state kids do? One thing I know is that all of the great athletes not offered by CBB that go on to play great elsewhere don't have problems with their grades. When people on message boards question a players eligibility and ethics right off the bat just because CBB has not offered them and Bama or LSU or Michigan has don't believe it for a minute, this is just trolls soft way of demeaning the kids to protect CBB and the razorback staff that have not offered the kid. The fact is sometimes the razorback coaches are shammed into offering after these other programs have offered just highlights how far we have yet to go to become a competitive recruiting organization in the SEC W.

[Arthur pigby sellers.]

Just imagine a picture of a dead horse being beaten.

That's this thread.

[Youngsta71701]

Lol. Wrong...

What makes you so sure about this? Looks like he could at least be a pretty good safety. Only time will tell...

[Michael D Huff AIA]

So you are saying the whole state of Arkansas' talent is crappy or are you saying that the rest of the state is too stupid to put their best athletes on the field to win a state title?

According to the ESPN Top 300, the supposed 300 best players in the nation, Arkansas has 2 of them.  Two.  That's 2 more than zero.  That means that we have zero 5* players.  None.  Its hard to logically talk about not getting Arkansas talent to Fayetteville when the data shows that the talent isn't there.

[AirWarren]

According to the ESPN Top 300, the supposed 300 best players in the nation, Arkansas has 2 of them.  Two.  That's 2 more than zero.  That means that we have zero 5* players.  None.  Its hard to logically talk about not getting Arkansas talent to Fayetteville when the data shows that the talent isn't there.

Especially when you consider Fayetteville high school and Nwa your biggest "hotbed".

[DeltaBoy]

Overlooking Dixson was the worse one in the past 10 years.

[1highhog]

I love our small country schools, I myself went to one and we didn't even have a football team, but was dominant in basketball, we beat LR teams throughout the years I was there and we were a class B school, won the Sate Championship, played for the overall State Championship my Sophomore year against West Memphis, they had Keith Lee and forget the other guy, we led at halftime but tired out in the 2nd, we ended up 3rd overall.  We had some big tough mothers that were fast as lightning and some that I think still today would make a football coach drool.  Just natural athletes.

But, I think a lot of these small schools that do have football teams get overlooked because of their size and Coaches just think that the competition makes the player look good.  Sometimes I think very good players that could play anywhere get looked over because of that.  A school like Warren, which was close to where I was, is about as small of a school as I think SEC schools look for players, and they wouldn't look there if not for the success of their program.  Some of the children I went to school with now go to Warren, and some to Monticello.  But Warren is where it's at if you want to play Football between those two counties.

It kills me how bad that LR has become as far as football.  Inner city kids play basketball or nothing at all.  There's a big number of kids that could have a way out if their parents gave them support, same way in Pine Bluff.

[hawganatic]

When people on message boards question a players eligibility and ethics right off the bat just because CBB has not offered them and Bama or LSU or Michigan has don't believe it for a minute

If a player is good enough to get big time offers like Bama/LSU/Mich, then that player should definitely be good enough to be offered by CBB.  Just outrageous.

Can you provide some of these names?  I'd really like to know who these players are.

[Youngsta71701]

Thats the thing.... kids from Arkansas that have wanted to play for Arkansas their entire life don't tend to give up when playing for their home state. CBB doesn't get it though. He offers 3-4 a year and sends 20 scollys out of state. Then sits at home 48 hrs wondering why his out-of-staters laid down in the second half of two consecutive games..... maybe they don't have the pride in a small southern state like in-state kids do? One thing I know is that all of the great athletes not offered by CBB that go on to play great elsewhere don't have problems with their grades. When people on message boards question a players eligibility and ethics right off the bat just because CBB has not offered them and Bama or LSU or Michigan has don't believe it for a minute, this is just trolls soft way of demeaning the kids to protect CBB and the razorback staff that have not offered the kid. The fact is sometimes the razorback coaches are shammed into offering after these other programs have offered just highlights how far we have yet to go to become a competitive recruiting organization in the SEC W.

Don't forget about Florida State, Notre Dame and Texas.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

I agree.  We also need some more private schools.  We need a couple of IMG type academies to recruit the best athletes who are in at-risk situations.  Get them off the street and keep them motivated.  Put them in an environment that will get them academically eligible while removing the bad influences.

This will never happen because the state has a backwards sense of hate toward private schools.

Arkansas is too spread out for a population as small as ours. Too many schools, to few great coaches. I wonder how many potential contributors fell between the cracks because they weren't developed. Yes Bielemas staff (and former staffs as well) may see the potential, but they cant spend that kind of time on 1 guy trying to develop him from scratch

[PorkRinds]

Thats the thing.... kids from Arkansas that have wanted to play for Arkansas their entire life don't tend to give up when playing for their home state. CBB doesn't get it though. He offers 3-4 a year and sends 20 scollys out of state. Then sits at home 48 hrs wondering why his out-of-staters laid down in the second half of two consecutive games..... maybe they don't have the pride in a small southern state like in-state kids do? One thing I know is that all of the great athletes not offered by CBB that go on to play great elsewhere don't have problems with their grades. When people on message boards question a players eligibility and ethics right off the bat just because CBB has not offered them and Bama or LSU or Michigan has don't believe it for a minute, this is just trolls soft way of demeaning the kids to protect CBB and the razorback staff that have not offered the kid. The fact is sometimes the razorback coaches are shammed into offering after these other programs have offered just highlights how far we have yet to go to become a competitive recruiting organization in the SEC W.

Could you make me a list of those kids you "know" that didn't get offers and went on to play big time college football? Thanks.

[factchecker]

Could you make me a list of those kids you "know" that didn't get offers and went on to play big time college football? Thanks.

Top 10 in-state recruits since Bielema has been here:

2013

Hunter Henry            Signed by Arkansas           Mackey Award Winner- San Diego Charger
Altee Tenpenny         Signed by Bama   (was offered)                            -
Brooks Ellis               Signed by Arkansas           Starting Linebacker (graduated)
Austin Allen              Signed by Arkansas            Starting Quarterback
Jamar Criswell           ?                                                   -
Martrell Spaight        Signed by Arkansas (JUCO)   Linebacker for Redskins
Tevin Beanum           Signed by Arkansas             In 2 deep
Korliss Marshall         Signed by Arkansas             Transfer to Eastern Illinois
Phillip Hay                 Signed by Harvard                              ?
Alex Brignoni             Signed by Arkansas             Medical Hardship

2014

Bijhon Jackson          Signed by Arkansas           In 2-deep rotation
Joshua Frazier           Signed by Bama (was offered)  In 2-deep rotation (made tackle in playoff game)
Jabe Burgess             Signed by Tulsa                Transfer to Mississippi Gulf Coast CC (JUCO)
Josh Liddell               Signed by Arkansas           Starting Safety
Deandre Murray         Signed by Tulsa                Transfer to D2 Pittsburg State
Jake Hall                   Signed by Arkansas           Buried in depth chart
Juan Day                   Signed by Arkansas           Injuries
Jack Kraus                 Signed by Arkansas           2 deep rotation
Jarvis Cooper             Signed by Memphis            Transfer to UCA
Isaac Johnson            Signed by Tulsa                     ?

2015

K.J. Hill                     Signed by Ohio State   (was offered)       Getting some playing time
C.J. O'Grady              Signed by Arkansas                             Getting playing time (caught TD in bowl game)
Will Gragg                 Signed by Arkansas                              To be Determined
Jamario Bell               Signed by Arkansas                             To be Determined
Dominique Reed         Signed by Arkansas (from JUCO)           Was key weapon in passing game last season
Justin Bailey               Signed by Arkansas Tech                                  ?
Ross Trail                   Signed by Cincinnati                              Played sparingly--threw for 1 TD and 6 INTs in 2016
Ty Storey                    Signed by Arkansas                              Buried in depth
LaMichael Pettway        Signed by Arkansas                              Caught TD pass vs. Alcorn
Deon Stewart               Signed by Arkansas                              Rotates in depth/ Kick Return

2016

McTelvin Agim             Signed by Arkansas                            Starting defensive linemen
T.J. Hammonds           Signed by Arkansas                             Bright future in running back rotation
John Tate                   Signed by Memphis                               Redshirt?
Austin Capps               Signed by Arkansas                             Rotates in the two deep
Jordan Jones               Signed by Arkansas                              To be Determined- Redshirt
Kabion Ento                 Signed by Colorado                               8 catches/174 yards -- 2 TDs
Nick McCann                Signed by Texas Tech                           Redshirt?
Damerea Crockett         Signed by Missouri                               Rushed for over 1000 yards
Cam Murray                 Signed by Okie State                              Redshirt  ?
Kenyon Jackson            Signed by Minnesota                             Redshirt


2013: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2013&position=&state=3

2014: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2014&position=&state=3

2015: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2015&position=&state=3

2016: http://espn.go.com/college-sports/football/recruiting/databaseresults?firstname=&lastname=&collegeid=&class=2016&position=&state=3

23 out of top 40 recruits have stayed with Arkansas.