Arkansas is not a football state, or a basketball state either

[Inhogswetrust]

Ironhog is correct.  He is talking apples where this thread is concerned.  You are talking oranges because of your own agenda.  For you everything boils down to the GSD, and you hate Little Rock.  Lots of people who grew up in Jacksonville when you did hated Little Rock.  I don't really blame you.  People from Little Rock, especially on the northwest side of the city, were pretty haughty.  Still are.  Not much different than the haughtiness of many posters here now from NWA.  Time to get over that.  That goes for LR and NWA.

This is a thread about whether Arkansas is a football or a basketball state or a baseball state.  It seems pretty silly to say that it is not all three.  I think even hogsanity is convinced of that now.  The truth is that Arkansas is a sports state.  That is due in very large part to the broad success of Razorbacks athletic programs, and that success is due in large part to Frank Broyles and the GOBN and Foundation members who funded it.  By-and-large, the money and the statewide interest came because of the success of football. 

Ironhog's point is that NWA looks a lot like Kansas where demographics are concerned.  He could have just as easily compared it to the Midwest, specifically to what the U.S. Census Bureau calls the "West North Central Division" of the Midwest, of which Kansas is a part.  Here are the numbers based on the 2010 census, which you won't like because they tend to underscore the importance of central and southern Arkansas for recruiting purposes (especially for the football team), but they are the numbers all the same:

NWA MSA - Pop. = 463,204; African American = 1.9%; total African American = 8,801   

Cent. Ark. MSA - Pop.= 734,622; African American=21.02%; total African American pop. = 154,418

Arkansas - Pop.=2,915,918; African American = 15.9%; total African American = 463,631

Kansas - African American % of population = 5.9%

That's enough to illustrate Ironhog's point.

You tend to think in terms of topography.  I get it.  We both love the Ozarks.  You once pointed out that the Ozarks are a plateau, not mountains.  That would be correct.  There is a saying that in Arkansas it's not that the mountains are so high but that the valleys are so deep.  We tend to think of Kansas as flat as parking lot, and it is, but it also slopes from west to east from over 4,000 feet to 700 feet like one giant, tilted parking lot.  It just isn't eroded like the Ozark Plateau. Overall the elevation of Kansas is much higher than the elevation of Arkansas.

In terms of race and ethnicity, the people of NWA are much more akin to the people of Kansas than the people of the rest of the state.  That is what Ironhog is saying.

What the heck do you mean I hate LR? I do not as I grew up in the area, Jacksonville as you know, and spend most of my fun time while growing up in LR. I never had anything against LR growing up. The only thing that Jacksonville folks didn't like about LR had nothing to do with LR. It had to do with having to be a part of the Pulaski County Special School District. Even back when I was in school growing up, the Jacksonville PTB's wanted their own school system but I was too young to understand what all that was about. We all know how you feel about LR and I feel the same. I have friends in LR that played for the Hogs, know some that live elsewhere that grew up in LR or the area. Even know a former Hog player that grew up out of state and decided to live in LR when his pro career was over. Still lives there. Another that did the same until he started to coach elsewhere. However I also feel the same way about NWA. BOTH have good and bad things about them. The GSD never entered my mind until some central Arkansas locals started to dog NWA and the school for pulling games out of there. When that all started WMS stadium was not in good shape and they have done some things to fix it up a little bit but not enough. However the basis for my wanting all the games in RRS is I firmly believe after talking to a lot of people about it and reading about it that all the games should be moved because I'm convinced it's best for the program overall. Nothing more, nothing less. By the way I was at the first game of the year in WMS in my seat I have had as a season ticket holder for years. Were you there? Are you a WMS season ticket holder? I am and have been going to games there as a youngster growing up, as student at the UA and now as an adult. I love games there but love going to games in Fayetteville a little more. IF they continue to play games in LR I'll still but season tickets there. Heck it's actually much easier and cheaper for me to go to games there than Fayetteville. This is not a slight against LR except they could have done more but didn't. LR politics is not good although other places in the central part of the state have good politics and good schools and good government and not as much crime, etc. You want to bring race into the thread fine but that doesn't fly with me. IF race mattered to me then I wouldn't have lived and worked in Shelby County, TN so close to Memphis all of the last 25 or so years. It's one of the most racially divided places I've ever worked or lived in. It has made progress in that part of life just like LR has but it still has a long ways to go just like LR does. Racial demographics has absolutely nothing to do with me in this thread. You thinking it is for me shows you don't know me as well as you think you do. The biggest problems with LR is still schools and also crime. Same as Memphis. People and friends I know in NWA don't have any real problems with LR or Central Arkansas. They are simply proud of their own growth and economic advances. I don't for a minute think that what you believe Ironhog is saying is what he is truly saying. That is because of all his other posts on the subject over his time here. He constantly belittles NWA. IF he is talking apples in this thread then that is different than most of his other posts.

[bphi11ips]

What the heck do you mean I hate LR? I do not as I grew up in the area, Jacksonville as you know, and spend most of my fun time while growing up in LR. I never had anything against LR growing up. The only thing that Jacksonville folks didn't like about LR had nothing to do with LR. It had to do with having to be a part of the Pulaski County Special School District. Even back when I was in school growing up, the Jacksonville PTB's wanted their own school system but I was too young to understand what all that was about. We all know how you feel about LR and I feel the same. I have friends in LR that played for the Hogs, know some that live elsewhere that grew up in LR or the area. Even know a former Hog player that grew up out of stater and decided to live in LR when his pro career was over. Still lives there. However I also feel the same way about NWA. BOTH have good and bad things about them. The GSD never entered my mind until some central Arkansas locals started to dog NWA and the school for pulling games out of there. When that all started WMS stadium was not in good shape and they have done some things to fix it up a little bit but not enough. However the basis for my wanting all the games in RRS is I firmly believe after talking to a lot of people about it and reading about it that all the games should be moved because I'm convinced it's best for the program overall. Nothing more, nothing less. By the way I was at the first game of the year in WMS in my seat I have had as a season ticket holder for years. Were you there? Are you a WMS season ticket holder? I am and have been going to games there as a youngster growing up as student act the UA and now as an adult. I lover games there but love going to games in Fayetteville a little more. IF they continue to play games in LR I'll still but season tickets there. Heck it's actually much easier and cheaper for me to go to games there than Fayetteville. The is not a slight against LR except they could have done more but didn't. LR politics is not good although other places in the central part of the state have good politics and good schools and good government and not as much crime, etc. You want to bring race into the thread fine  but that doesn't fly with me. IF race mattered to me then I wouldn't have lived and worked in Shelby County, TN so close to Memphis all of the last 25 or so years. It's one of the most racially divided places I've ever worked or lived in. It has made progress in that part of life just like LR has but it still has a long ways to go just like LR does. Racial demographics has absolutely nothing to do with me in this thread. You thinking it is for me shows you don't know me as well as you think you do. There biggest problem with LR is still schools and also crime. Same as Memphis. People and friends I know in NWA don't have any real problems with LR or Central Arkansas. They are simply proud of their own growth and economic advances. I don't for a minute think that what you believe Ironhog is saying is what he is truly saying. That is because of all his other posts on the subject over his time here. He constantly belittles NWA. IF he is talking apples in this thread then that is different than most of his other posts.

Ok.

[GoHogs1091]

It can be argued that Arkansas is a horse racing state instead of a football state or basketball state.

The racing season at Oaklawn is somewhat relatively short, but it draws in people and also big money.  Each week of the season at Oaklawn is a several days of the week event, whereas Razorback football is just 1 day out of the week for just a few home dates.

The Racing Festival of the South Week and the Arkansas Derby also have huge national implications, especially the Arkansas Derby because it is an extremely important prep race for the Kentucky Derby.

There is no national implications regarding a football game against Florida A&M, New Mexico State, and Coastal Carolina.  No one nationally (particularly national media and national football analysts) cares about pillow fights against those type of teams.

[jvanhorn]

My point is that those "other skills" have to be taught.  I can teach a 5-year-old black kid from the inner city to hit a golf ball just as easily as I can teach a 5-year-old white kid from the suburbs.  Same thing with throwing or fielding or hitting a baseball.  The question boils down to opportunity. 

Can you gauge raw, relative athletic talent in 5-year-olds?  Yes - you can do that with music and math and other things.  But it's a myth that some guru can spot a particularly gifted baseball prospect at 5 or 6 or 7.  It's a myth used effectively to build business, though.   

Gee, I guess Michael Jordan couldn't find anyone to teach him how to hit a baseball.  How do you teach someone to hit a baseball coming you in the 90 mile an hour range, not to mention sliders, curveball and changeups.  Probably 90 per cent would pee in their pants. If you are not born with great hand to eye cordnation and a fearless attitude there is no teacher on earth that can help you.  Without doubt the hardest thing in sports.  Even great hitters make outs 7 out of 10 at bats.  That also requires a mind set that you have to understand that you will fail lots but you have to put each at bat behind you.

[jvanhorn]

It can be argued that Arkansas is a horse racing state instead of a football state or basketball state.

The racing season at Oaklawn is somewhat relatively short, but it draws in people and also big money.  Each week of the season at Oaklawn is a several days of the week event, whereas Razorback football is just 1 day out of the week for just a few home dates.

The Racing Festival of the South Week and the Arkansas Derby also have huge national implications, especially the Arkansas Derby because it is an extremely important prep race for the Kentucky Derby.

There is no national implications regarding a football game against Florida A&M, New Mexico State, and Coastal Carolina.  No one nationally (particularly national media and national football analysts) cares about pillow fights against those type of teams.

Well, I personally, always considered Arkansas to be a dog racing state, lol.  We are one of the very biggest and best in the whole freakin country.

[husker71]

yes but very few race horses that are in the big races are Arkansas bred.  Sure there are state bred races for those from Arkansas but in the bigger open races you rarely see a Arkie bred.  Nearly all are Kentucky or Florida or California bred.   

[Inhogswetrust]

It can be argued that Arkansas is a horse racing state instead of a football state or basketball state.

The racing season at Oaklawn is somewhat relatively short, but it draws in people and also big money.  Each week of the season at Oaklawn is a several days of the week event, whereas Razorback football is just 1 day out of the week for just a few home dates.

The Racing Festival of the South Week and the Arkansas Derby also have huge national implications, especially the Arkansas Derby because it is an extremely important prep race for the Kentucky Derby.

There is no national implications regarding a football game against Florida A&M, New Mexico State, and Coastal Carolina.  No one nationally (particularly national media and national football analysts) cares about pillow fights against those type of teams.

Without the state law being changed that allowed casino style gaming at Oaklawn and Southland BOTH might have gone out of business or at least had to step down to the NCAA DIII football equivalent.

[Inhogswetrust]

Gee, I guess Michael Jordan couldn't find anyone to teach him how to hit a baseball.  How do you teach someone to hit a baseball coming you in the 90 mile an hour range, not to mention sliders, curveball and changeups.  Probably 90 per cent would pee in their pants. If you are not born with great hand to eye cordnation and a fearless attitude there is no teacher on earth that can help you.  Without doubt the hardest thing in sports.  Even great hitters make outs 7 out of 10 at bats.  That also requires a mind set that you have to understand that you will fail lots but you have to put each at bat behind you.

I think the hardest thing in sports is consistently hitting a little round white ball into a hole in the ground. Especially from the same distance that baseball is thrown. I bet the missed putts even for the great ones at that distance is more than 7 out of 10.   

[bphi11ips]

Gee, I guess Michael Jordan couldn't find anyone to teach him how to hit a baseball.  How do you teach someone to hit a baseball coming you in the 90 mile an hour range, not to mention sliders, curveball and changeups.  Probably 90 per cent would pee in their pants. If you are not born with great hand to eye cordnation and a fearless attitude there is no teacher on earth that can help you.  Without doubt the hardest thing in sports.  Even great hitters make outs 7 out of 10 at bats.  That also requires a mind set that you have to understand that you will fail lots but you have to put each at bat behind you.

Two things -

Maybe you missed the part about 5 year olds.  If you think a guru can tell you a 5 year old will be able to hit in the majors you've probably paid a guru to teach your son to hit.  Did someone teach Michael Jordan to hit a major league fastball or slider when he was a kid?  No, in fact, he spent his college years under Dean Smith learning to make buzzer shots in high profile basketball games.  He never faced a professional pitcher until he was 30.  Do you think Michael Jordan wasn't fearless?  Didn't have great hand-eye coordination?  Couldn't put failure behind him?

Is hitting a baseball the toughest thing to do in sports?  I don't know.  I had a knack for hitting myself but haven't faced a fastball since I was 18.  Stepping up in a collapsing pocket was harder for me.  Talk about something that will make your head spin.  Making a three foot putt with more money riding on it than you have in the bank will cause you to go dizzy, too.  Trevino was right.  Been there and done that.

The point here is that the skills required to compete professionally in just about any sport must be developed early, regardless of athletic ability.  You just picked a prime example of that basic tenet.

[IronHog]

Am I reading this right...the gene pool in Arkansas has resulted in smaller and slower people compared to that in the surrounding states?  And that's why were struggle in football and basketball.

Interesting.

90% of being an SEC football player is genetics

The other 10% is mostly being eligible


Practice and weights etc is pretty minimal for non-QBs

[jvanhorn]

Arkansas actually could be a great baseball state, but look how the baseball program is treated.  Does Van Horn have a tv show?  When is the last time you ever saw a Razorback baseball player interviewed on tv.  How many know Arkansas is playing Memphis at Auto Zone Park in Memphis this year?  Probably 70 per cent of the people have no idea who Andrew Bettendi [sp, lol] is.  Some may know who the other guy is because Houston was in the World Series.  The point is no one, not even a corpoarate sponsor for a tv show, is making any attempt to make baseball a BIG deal in Arkansas.  How many times have you ever seen a Razorback baseball game televised or heard it on the radio?   Which is a shame.  Arkansas has a great coach, who has made this into a world class program and plays in a stadium recruits and fans fall in love with.  But, the truth is, a vast majority of people in the state and in the athletic department really could care less.  We could be a real leader in this sport, but it will take a higher up with vision and authority to understand opportunity knocks but you have to open the door.  I have never heard Jeff Long even mention baseball.  I have no idea if he has ever met Van Horn, lol.  I certainly have not noticed him putting a lot of money into the stadium up keep.

[RedRock]

We be a deer hunting state

[Mr. Prozac]

As of today, there are 14 DI commitments, including 11 to SEC schools (7 to Arkansas) in the class of 2018. There are a few more who may go to smaller DI schools.

[Memhogs]

While the question is being asked is Arkansas a football school, one really has to ask, is Arkansas a football state? I say the answer to that is no. While we enjoy football, as a state we are not very good at playing it. Our teams, when compared to similar teams in other states, are small and slow. We enjoy watching football, many towns live and die with their local high school team, and from time to time the state produces an excellent player, but it is not a football state because the football product for the most part is not very good.

But I will go even further. Arkansas is not a very athletic state, period. While basketball is very good in a couple areas ( LR being one ) most of the basketball in Ar suffers from the same problems as does football, small and slow.

If anything, Arkansas is a baseball state, that is a sport where size and speed are not as big of factor, and I do not think it is a coincidence that the UofA has been more successful in baseball that any other sport over the last 15-20 years ( maybe track, but even it had a lull after John M left ).

Now, the people WANT this to be a football state and for the UofA to be a football school because that is where they see the glory, the recognition. Football is easier for fans to get involved with too with bigger venues, fewer games, usually on a Sat so it is easier to attend, you can tailgate much easier for football than other sports too.

Oddly though, football is also the hardest sport for a university to be truly good in. Lose 1 game and you are likely out of the NC picture, 2 and you are probably almost out of NYD6 bowls contention. 3 of more losses, and you start wondering what middle level bowl you are playing in at 3pm someday between Christmas and NY eve.

Why dont we just give up then

[factchecker]

I have never heard Jeff Long even mention baseball.  I have no idea if he has ever met Van Horn, lol.  I certainly have not noticed him putting a lot of money into the stadium up keep.

You haven't been paying attention then:

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/baum-stadiums-mlb-caliber-upgrade/



http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/fowler-family-baseball-track-training-center/

[jvanhorn]

You haven't been paying attention then:

http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/baum-stadiums-mlb-caliber-upgrade/



http://www.arkansasrazorbacks.com/fowler-family-baseball-track-training-center/

I am glad to know that.  I don't mind being wrong about something like that.