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Cardinal Trades in the Next Few Weeks?

Started by mhuff, July 16, 2014, 01:31:14 pm

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mhuff

OK, so who and what positions do you think are going to be affected?

pigture perfect

I'm thinking Centerfield and Rightfield. I think getting rid of Bourjous is a necessity and Allen Craig Is expendable. Offensive help is badly needed.
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

 

jrulz83

Starting pitcher, there are a lot of innings to cover right now. The offense stirred just before the break and I'm hopeful it's a sign of things to come.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

pigture perfect

The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

mhuff

I think Craig may be traded as well.... plus some of the centerfielders. I do not want to see Piscotty traded from Memphis. I think he has a bright future.

Not sure who..... but I think we go for a SP and an outfielder. It opens up a Pandoras box if we start talking about a third base trade. I just know Wong is coming on fast and I do not want him traded. Something has to be done about the offense though.

jrulz83

Quote from: mhuff on July 18, 2014, 11:52:42 am
I think Craig may be traded as well.... plus some of the centerfielders. I do not want to see Piscotty traded from Memphis. I think he has a bright future.

Not sure who..... but I think we go for a SP and an outfielder. It opens up a Pandoras box if we start talking about a third base trade. I just know Wong is coming on fast and I do not want him traded. Something has to be done about the offense though.

What needs to be done about the offense is Craig needs a return to close to form or Taveras needs to start hitting the lights out and Holliday needs his typical second half surge; if two of those three occur the offense is fixed.

I'm way more concerned about the rotation, Miller has labored and barely covered 5 innings in his last few starts. Carlos Martinez has been about the same as Miller, Joe Kelly better start going deep in games or there will be trouble. The bullpen has too many innings to cover and it's going to lead to disaster. The Cardinals badly need a trade or someone to step up and be a strong #3 starter to eat some innings.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

ucahogfan

From an outsider's perspective and reading what the experts think, the Cardinals should target offense.  The pitching staff is fine right now, but your offense is the 2nd worst in the NL only ahead of the Padres in terms of runs scored.  Offense will probably only get worse with Yadi going down if everyone plays like they have been.  Maybe use Piscotty or Tavares to go get someone like a Ben Zobrist or another solid bat that might be on the block.

TX HOG

Y'all could use Alex rios it sounds like

jrulz83

Quote from: ucahogfan on July 18, 2014, 02:16:56 pm
From an outsider's perspective and reading what the experts think, the Cardinals should target offense.  The pitching staff is fine right now, but your offense is the 2nd worst in the NL only ahead of the Padres in terms of runs scored.  Offense will probably only get worse with Yadi going down if everyone plays like they have been.  Maybe use Piscotty or Tavares to go get someone like a Ben Zobrist or another solid bat that might be on the block.

I'll say it now: the experts are wrong. The pitching staff is not fine. There are troubling signs from Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez is still trying to figure out how to throw strikes consistently. Neither one of them has gone deep in a game in a while. Joe Kelly is a wild card. I hope he can be like he was last season but who knows? The bullpen is going to get way overworked by Kelly's, Martinez's, and Miller's inability to throw more than five innings. Middle relief is the soft underbelly of every team and if this pitching trend continues for the Cardinals theirs will be exposed. Michael Wacha's ability to contribute after his shoulder injury is also an unknown, they supposedly will know more about it next week and that will color their approach at the deadline.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

mhuff

Quote from: jrulz83 on July 18, 2014, 04:17:09 pm
I'll say it now: the experts are wrong. The pitching staff is not fine. There are troubling signs from Shelby Miller and Carlos Martinez is still trying to figure out how to throw strikes consistently. Neither one of them has gone deep in a game in a while. Joe Kelly is a wild card. I hope he can be like he was last season but who knows? The bullpen is going to get way overworked by Kelly's, Martinez's, and Miller's inability to throw more than five innings. Middle relief is the soft underbelly of every team and if this pitching trend continues for the Cardinals theirs will be exposed. Michael Wacha's ability to contribute after his shoulder injury is also an unknown, they supposedly will know more about it next week and that will color their approach at the deadline.

What you say is true. However , it is not just pitching..... which you are right on there. Besides Wainright and Lynn the rest of the starting staff is averaging five and a third innings.... Gotta go deeper than that. Miller is now a reliever. Kelly did well today....big win.If we don't get some long starting help to eat up innings, our pitching staff is going to be worn out come playoffs. Cards are 29th out of 30 teams in runs scored.

Looks like they could be looking for more catching help as well.

mhuff

Quote from: pigture perfect on July 16, 2014, 09:18:06 pm
I'm thinking Centerfield and Rightfield. I think getting rid of Bourjous is a necessity and Allen Craig Is expendable. Offensive help is badly needed.

Thinking there could be three new faces.

jrulz83

July 19, 2014, 10:21:03 pm #11 Last Edit: July 20, 2014, 12:21:58 am by jrulz83
Quote from: mhuff on July 19, 2014, 08:54:21 pm
What you say is true. However , it is not just pitching..... which you are right on there. Besides Wainright and Lynn the rest of the starting staff is averaging five and a third innings.... Gotta go deeper than that. Miller is now a reliever. Kelly did well today....big win.If we don't get some long starting help to eat up innings, our pitching staff is going to be worn out come playoffs. Cards are 29th out of 30 teams in runs scored.

Looks like they could be looking for more catching help as well.

I don't disagree, the offensive trend is troubling. With offense down all over MLB I'm just not sure if any good bats are available at a reasonable price. Mozeliak is very cagey and he always seems to play close to the vest, what he does should be interesting. I think he'll probably stand pat or add a starter and look for an incremental improvement for the bench. He has repeatedly stated that improvement needed to "come from within".
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

pigture perfect

Anyone see the Buster Olney piece about David Price and Evan Longoria were both at Busch Stadium tonight? Is this a possible sign?
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

 

Horsesrus

More likely that they got into town early for the Tuesday and Wednesday night games and didn't have anything better to do in St Louis than do a little scouting and take in a game.

mhuff

Quote from: pigture perfect on July 21, 2014, 01:02:45 am
Anyone see the Buster Olney piece about David Price and Evan Longoria were both at Busch Stadium tonight? Is this a possible sign?

I didn't see it. Great info.... thanks.

mhuff

Quote from: jrulz83 on July 19, 2014, 10:21:03 pm
I don't disagree, the offensive trend is troubling. With offense down all over MLB I'm just not sure if any good bats are available at a reasonable price. Mozeliak is very cagey and he always seems to play close to the vest, what he does should be interesting. I think he'll probably stand pat or add a starter and look for an incremental improvement for the bench. He has repeatedly stated that improvement needed to "come from within".

I have a lot of faith in MO..... However, I believe that he sees that we are not going to get there with what we have. One poster astutely said that our window of opportunity is the next three years. If we get the right people , we can win another series or two. Last year was just too much to duplicate. Some of our players had career years.

Jacob "2 Scoops" Johnson

The Olney tweet was interesting. He seemed positive it was in the minds in the Cardinals' front office. Whether or not the Rays would ever contemplate it is a different issue. However, I think I'm going to take this as a good sign that we will be getting Price.
ched come back pls

pigture perfect

I don't think that the Rays would trade Longoria unless everyone got drunk at the party in the front office. Would love to see it.
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

clutch

Quote from: pigture perfect on July 21, 2014, 02:07:48 pm
I don't think that the Rays would trade Longoria unless everyone got drunk at the party in the front office. Would love to see it.

I'd love to have Longoria. He'd be expensive though. Bet he wouldn't mind getting out of Tampa.

hoghappy

Oh, I would love Longoria. Move Carp back to 2nd. That would be an improvement at both positions defensively.

pigture perfect

I don't know HH, Wong has been hitting well lately. He's awefully young to be shuffled so much.
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

jrulz83

Quote from: mhuff on July 21, 2014, 01:59:25 pm


I have a lot of faith in MO..... However, I believe that he sees that we are not going to get there with what we have. One poster astutely said that our window of opportunity is the next three years. If we get the right people , we can win another series or two. Last year was just too much to duplicate. Some of our players had career years.

We'll know for sure how he feels about this team in about 10 days.  :)

I am probably totally wrong, but I just don't see him doing a blockbuster deal. When the team is 0.5 game back from first place turning the roster over seems like fan navel gazing. The only things this team needs is an innings eating starter (Kelly might fit the bill), and maybe a right handed threat off of the bench. Although, Kershaw might tell you to watch out for Bourjos.  :)

Please explain to me how the window to win is the next 3 years. I just can't see that. Lynn is still young, Miller, Kelly, Martinez, are figuring out pitching in the MLB. You have Adams, Taveras, Piscotty, Wong, Grichuk that all have tremendous upside in their young careers. I am bullish when it comes to the Cardinals, they are my only respite from the continually disappointing Razorbacks.  :D
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

clutch

I don't buy the 3 year window either. I think 3 years is when they really take off.

jbell96

I don't think it was that big of a deal that Longoria & Price were at the game on Sunday. They had an early game in Minnesota & a day off Monday before starting a two game series with us tonight. That said, I can see why people would talk about Price being there, given the trade rumors we've been hearing.


 

The Hogfather

Quote from: pigture perfect on July 21, 2014, 01:02:45 am
Anyone see the Buster Olney piece about David Price and Evan Longoria were both at Busch Stadium tonight? Is this a possible sign?

Good gosh, I hope so...

ucahogfan

Quote from: jbell96 on July 22, 2014, 12:05:14 pm
I don't think it was that big of a deal that Longoria & Price were at the game on Sunday. They had an early game in Minnesota & a day off Monday before starting a two game series with us tonight. That said, I can see why people would talk about Price being there, given the trade rumors we've been hearing.
I fully agree with this.  Nothing should be looked into Longo and Price being in St. Louis Sunday night for the game.  Remember, I think 3 Red Sox players went to a Blue Jays game in Toronto last year when they weren't playing.  Some MLB players (not Anthony Rendon) enjoy going to games when they aren't playing.

Longo is about as likely to be traded as Wainwright for the Cards or Freeman from the Braves.  It just isn't going to happen.  Now a team like the Dodgers or Cubs who have a lot of top end prospects could come in and basically clean out the farm for him, but because of his long term contract, it will take a whole lot for the Rays to move him.  Price is definitely the cheaper of the two options and is on the block.

mhuff

Quote from: ucahogfan on July 22, 2014, 04:05:44 pm
I fully agree with this.  Nothing should be looked into Longo and Price being in St. Louis Sunday night for the game. Remember, I think 3 Red Sox players went to a Blue Jays game in Toronto last year when they weren't playing.  Some MLB players (not Anthony Rendon) enjoy going to games when they aren't playing.

Longo is about as likely to be traded as Wainwright for the Cards or Freeman from the Braves.  It just isn't going to happen.  Now a team like the Dodgers or Cubs who have a lot of top end prospects could come in and basically clean out the farm for him, but because of his long term contract, it will take a whole lot for the Rays to move him.  Price is definitely the cheaper of the two options and is on the block.

Just happenened to be in the neighborhood. ;) C'mon..... Probably came to watch a Little League game and decided to take in the Cards.

jbell96

A move I think we might make soon is a trade to get Kurt Suzuki from Minnesota. Cruz & Kotteras aren't getting it done behind the plate so Suzuki's would be a nice 3 month rental given how good he's been at the plate this year. Also, his contract expires after this season, and he's got an affordable contract.

I don't think a blockbuster deal gets made, but I think a trade for Suzuki would be an under the radar deal that would help us tremendously.

jrulz83

Quote from: jbell96 on July 25, 2014, 10:53:55 am
A move I think we might make soon is a trade to get Kurt Suzuki from Minnesota. Cruz & Kotteras aren't getting it done behind the plate so Suzuki's would be a nice 3 month rental given how good he's been at the plate this year. Also, his contract expires after this season, and he's got an affordable contract.

I don't think a blockbuster deal gets made, but I think a trade for Suzuki would be an under the radar deal that would help us tremendously.

I think this scenario is highly likely, I just don't see the "blockbuster" deal happening either. Something like an Ian Kennedy deal would be the closest thing to "blockbuster" that might happen. The costs are just too high right now.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

jbell96

Quote from: jrulz83 on July 25, 2014, 10:59:22 am
I think this scenario is highly likely, I just don't see the "blockbuster" deal happening either. Something like an Ian Kennedy deal would be the closest thing to "blockbuster" that might happen. The costs are just too high right now.

Yeah I can see us doing a few smaller deals for prospects like Piscotty or Grichuk, but no deal that would give up Taveras or Martinez.

ucahogfan

Quote from: jbell96 on July 25, 2014, 11:27:28 am
Yeah I can see us doing a few smaller deals for prospects like Piscotty or Grichuk, but no deal that would give up Taveras or Martinez.
Piscotty should still bring a pretty good player in return.  He is the #49 prospect in the BA Midseason Top 50 (Taveras isn't on the list, probably due to eligibility) so he should bring back an Ian Kennedy type at the very least.

pigture perfect

I don't really see a blockbuster trade either. Just kind of wishful thinking.
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

mhuff

Rays sound like they are holding pat. I know that we have to have more offense. Lots of players that are supposed to be hitting not hitting.

Looks like they need to work on bunting more in spring training. Need to manufacture runs somehow.

Matt Holliday has been turning it on offensively of late. Still, I am not sure that he is hitting in the right place in the lineup. I think he has a league or team high in hitting into double plays. Well, he led the national league in 2013


jrulz83

Quote from: mhuff on July 27, 2014, 06:23:57 pm
Rays sound like they are holding pat. I know that we have to have more offense. Lots of players that are supposed to be hitting not hitting.

Looks like they need to work on bunting more in spring training. Need to manufacture runs somehow.

Who isn't hitting?
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

mhuff

July 27, 2014, 06:33:52 pm #34 Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 06:49:46 pm by mhuff
Quote from: jrulz83 on July 27, 2014, 06:28:01 pm
Who isn't hitting?


Off the top of my head Bourjos,  Taveras,  Cruz, Ellis, Robinson, and Craig. Wong is batting .250 which is average for MLB. Peralta is .254.

clutch

Holliday is also something like #2 in the NL avg wise with RISP.

jrulz83

Quote from: mhuff on July 27, 2014, 06:33:52 pm
Off the top of my head Bourjos,  Taveras,  Cruz, Ellis, Robinson, and Craig. Wong is batting .250 which is average for MLB. Peralta is .254.

Okay, just trying to understand your thought processes. Bourjos, Taveras, Cruz, Ellis, Wong, and Robinson were all, at best, expected to be bench/rookie players this season. So I don't really know what you expected from them.

There is more to being an effective hitter than batting average. I doubt you'll read it, but here is an article about Peralta being a disappointment from earlier in the year:

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/bernie-miklasz/bird-bytes-is-peralta-a-disappointment/article_af41019b-6a78-56fd-b16c-40b8860ebb67.html

You can sight exactly one full time position player at the beginning of the year that isn't hitting at the moment? That's it? This dreadful, worst offense ever, that has to have a trade to get it going only has one full time non rookie position player that isn't hitting. Am I correctly stating your position?
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

mhuff

July 27, 2014, 09:39:56 pm #37 Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 09:57:25 pm by mhuff
Quote from: mhuff on July 27, 2014, 06:23:57 pm
Rays sound like they are holding pat. I know that we have to have more offense. Lots of players that are supposed to be hitting not hitting.

Looks like they need to work on bunting more in spring training. Need to manufacture runs somehow.

Matt Holliday has been turning it on offensively of late. Still, I am not sure that he is hitting in the right place in the lineup. I think he has a league or team high in hitting into double plays. Well, he led the national league in 2013



My position is that we need more offense. We are last or second to last in HR's. We had two recent games we did not score a run. I realize that a lot of those players are rookies. I don't care if they are from Mars; we need some hitting. We need more offense.   Pitching is keeping us in it.

I was looking at Holliday as well as other hitters over the years who led in hitting into double plays. The thought crossed my mind that there were many big time players on the list. That would indicate they were in a position to hit into double plays as there would be runners on base a lot of the time...... Two edged sword. I did not know that Holliday was that successful with RISP. Win some .... lose some. Obviously he is good at driving in runs. I was under the impression that he batted about 5th last year..... not sure. Good points. Another +1

The article on Peralta is all telling as to his importance to the team. He was the only one hitting HR's for awhile until Holliday, Adams and Wong caught fire. However, Peralta does need to do a much better job than he is doing with RISP.

If you asked the Cardinal management if they were surprised by the low batting averages of those listed players, what do you think they would say? Yes or no? What they would say is a moot point. The fact that most are rookies is a moot point. Whether they hit or not is relevant. They are in the line up.... in the bigs. We need more offense.

mhuff

The cards tried to start Boujous in CF ;however,  he lost his PT when he did not hit. Ellis was to be a backup to Wong until Wong did not hit. Then Wong was called up when Ellis could not hit. Taveras was called up to play the outfield. He was not batting and was sent back down.  The batting average in the majors is .250. If you play for the Cards, you will not stay in the line up for long if you are below average. That is why Kozma is in the minors again. He was batting .215. They are hanging in there with Craig and I think will be rewarded soon because he has proven himself in the past. I am wondering if his eyes need checking or it's a timing problem.

jrulz83

July 27, 2014, 10:17:29 pm #39 Last Edit: July 27, 2014, 10:33:07 pm by jrulz83
Quote from: mhuff on July 27, 2014, 09:39:56 pm
My position is that we need more offense. We are last or second to last in HR's. We had two recent games we did not score a run. I realize that a lot of those players are rookies. I don't care if they are from Mars; we need some hitting. We need more offense.   Pitching is keeping us in it.

I was looking at Holliday as well as other hitters over the years who led in hitting into double plays. The thought crossed my mind that there were many big time players on the list. That would indicate they were in a position to hit into double plays as there would be runners on base a lot of the time...... Two edged sword. I did not know that Holliday was that successful with RISP. Win some .... lose some. Obviously he is good at driving in runs. I was under the impression that he batted about 5th last year..... not sure. Good points. Another +1

I just don't feel that a trade for offense is necessary or smart given the price that it will require. Taveras is just starting to get his feet under him, same thing with Wong. Holliday is having his typical second half surge. I think this offense will come together and surprise some people. Holliday and Adams are scary right now to opposing pitchers. It just takes a couple of other things to start flowing and this offense gets rolling.

I'm of the opinion that the cost of acquiring a decent bat is ridiculously high. So high that it would put your farm clubs out of business.

Who would you like to see traded and what do you honestly think they would bring in return?
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

mhuff

Quote from: jrulz83 on July 27, 2014, 10:17:29 pm
I just don't feel that a trade for offense is necessary or smart given the price that it will require. Taveras is just starting to get his feet under him, same thing with Wong. Holliday is having his typical second half surge. I think this offense will come together and surprise some people. Holliday and Adams are scary right now to opposing pitchers. It just takes a couple of other things to start flowing and this offense gets rolling.

I'm just of the opinion that the cost of acquiring a decent bat is ridiculously high. So high that it would put your farm clubs out of business.

Who would you like to see traded and what do you honestly think they would bring in return?

Brother, I do not want to see our young talent go. Still, the front office is seeing all the talent we have and are looking at this year. The announcers were talking about a three year window of opportunity. We are spending less on salaries this year than last. They will be kicking themselves in the butt if they don't infuse some more offense into the lineup. They will not get far if they don't get some more hitting. Plus, if these prospects fizzle, they will lose their trade value. I really don't know who to trade. I know you can't play six OFers. Let's see what the Dodgers do. They have the same problem. I think we are just playing poker right now. Gotta go.... enjoyed discussion. I think something happens soon.

jbell96

I really hope the fact that we've seen Taveras start the past two days means he's going to get more time than Craig. I really think Craig might be hiding an injury to avoid losing his position to Taveras. He is just completely off right now.

mhuff

I think Craig really looks uneasy at the plate; whereas, last year he looked really confident. I know he has been really consistent until now. Cards are due to take off in August anyway. Color me red; I am worried about going very far in playoffs.

pigture perfect

At this point I'm just worried about making it to the playoffs
The 2 biggest fools in the world: He who has an answer for everything and he who argues with him.  - original.<br /> <br />The first thing I'm going to ask a lawyer (when I might need one) is, "You don't post on Hogville do you?"

Jacob "2 Scoops" Johnson

According to Bob Nightengale (sp?) of USA Today, a package of Miller, Taveras, and the compensation pick is on the table. Says there is merit to the rumor that the Rays are very interested.

Edit: slight misreading on my part. The alleged offer is the part that "had merit", while rival executives have told Bob that it very well could tempt TB.
ched come back pls

jrulz83

Quote from: mhuff on July 27, 2014, 10:37:24 pm
Brother, I do not want to see our young talent go. Still, the front office is seeing all the talent we have and are looking at this year. The announcers were talking about a three year window of opportunity. We are spending less on salaries this year than last. They will be kicking themselves in the butt if they don't infuse some more offense into the lineup. They will not get far if they don't get some more hitting. Plus, if these prospects fizzle, they will lose their trade value. I really don't know who to trade. I know you can't play six OFers. Let's see what the Dodgers do. They have the same problem. I think we are just playing poker right now. Gotta go.... enjoyed discussion. I think something happens soon.

Give me something more solid about this three year window, you've referenced it several times. Explain the reasoning to me please, I'm trying to understand it.
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

jrulz83

Justin Masterson??? What is Mozeliak thinking? he's an idiot for not giving up Miller, Taveras, Lynn, Martinez and Piscotty to get a bat.

DUMB MOVE!!!  ;)
Lenin is cautiously optimistic.

TomasPistola

Don't understand taking a guy that's been on the DL. Don't understand not getting a bat.
Quote from: Hog Momster on January 06, 2011, 09:45:30 pm
You were right.
Quote from: Breems on April 28, 2011, 05:58:14 pm
You did a great job.
Quote from: Verge on June 22, 2011, 08:44:20 am
If you have some form of mental retardation i will stop making fun of you, just want to clarify this first.

mhuff

Quote from: TomasPistola on July 30, 2014, 06:38:08 pm
Don't understand taking a guy that's been on the DL. Don't understand not getting a bat.

I think we will get a bat before Midnight tomorrow night.

mhuff

Quote from: jrulz83 on July 29, 2014, 11:02:07 pm
Give me something more solid about this three year window, you've referenced it several times. Explain the reasoning to me please, I'm trying to understand it.

Sorry, I haven't been on net much today. The announcers were talking about the young talent we have and how long they will be there before the big money comes calling...... if my memory serves me right.  They were saying that if we made a big trade and got Price we might have another chance at another world series win or more in that time frame.

If we got Price and a hitter or two, I think we would be dominant. I believe we make the playoffs this year. Now is the time of year they have taken off the last few years. I was looking at the schedule and I like our odds for separation especially if some trades are made.