Reasons why The University of Arkansas should never play Arkansas State

[honkyfool]

D@$N you for bringing this up again

Why?

[razorbackkid]

DAMN the politics, WE ARE THE RAZORBACKS, we are arkansas state, the two schools have more in
common than the subjects that seperate us.  If a freakin' unplayed football game can have such
a statewide divisionalism then I say  play the darned game.

I grew up in northeast Arkansas.  I have been to the old Indians games.  I have been to Razorback
games both in Fayetteville and in Little Rock.  Play the game in Little Rock.  If the now Red Wolves win
big deal.....we have lost to the freakin' CITADEL for crying out loud.

Jonesboro has done NOTHIHG.  MOST likely they never will.  However, don't be an asswipe by denying
them the opportunity to have their day.

BUT....if we lose....SCREW THAT!!!!!  Don't  freakin' lose!!!!!!!!!!!!  If losing is the problem then give
up the game all together.  Football is football and the ugly ducking is still a f**king duck!

Sometimes one must slap somebody in the mouth to make a point.  If I don't want to hear your crap
then I'll either turn a deaf ear or shut you the frank up.

It appears ASU isn't going to go away.....time to put the red weasels in their f##king place.

Shut up or put up.

Speak loud cause I freakin' don't hear ya.

[honkyfool]

DAMN the politics, WE ARE THE RAZORBACKS, we are arkansas state, the two schools have more in
common than the subjects that seperate us.  If a freakin' unplayed football game can have such
a statewide divisionalism then I say  play the darned game.

I grew up in northeast Arkansas.  I have been to the old Indians games.  I have been to Razorback
games both in Fayetteville and in Little Rock.  Play the game in Little Rock.  If the now Red Wolves win
big deal.....we have lost to the freakin' CITADEL for crying out loud.

Jonesboro has done NOTHIHG.  MOST likely they never will.  However, don't be an asswipe by denying
them the opportunity to have their day.

BUT....if we lose....SCREW THAT!!!!!  Don't  freakin' lose!!!!!!!!!!!!  If losing is the problem then give
up the game all together.  Football is football and the ugly ducking is still a f**king duck!

Sometimes one must slap somebody in the mouth to make a point.  If I don't want to hear your crap
then I'll either turn a deaf ear or shut you the frank up.

It appears ASU isn't going to go away.....time to put the red weasels in their f##king place.

Shut up or put up.

Speak loud cause I freakin' don't hear ya.

Great post +1

[Hawgz4Life]

You are right sir, not about UAM.  It is so funny how Little Rock folks call Pine Bluff and Hot Springs south Arkansas.  From where I sit, they are more central Arkansas.   If you want to give one away, we'll take Hot Springs, but you can keep Crime Bluff....

We'll have to take this to committee. My people will be in touch with your people. Give us West Memphis, Toad Suck, throw in Rose City and you've got yourself a deal.

[Z7!HOG]

Our state isn't big enough to support such a split over the long term.

Really, its that simple.

Ever heard of South Carolina and Clemson????They do fine and its a huge rivalry

[Hihog]

OK, I will bite one more time on this subject for the benefit of the 3-4 ASU supporters that sign up for Hogville every few weeks in order to raise this worn out topic.
  First, for those who argue that the UA policy is outdated and archaic, you miss the point. It is simply a policy that remains in the best interest of the UA pure and simple. For those of you who cannot understand the rationale for this policy, such as Mr. Lericos, let me offer an argument.
  The reality of the issue is that for the UA to have a reasonable chance to compete with LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, etc. it is imperative that we get all of the top Arkansas players both athletically and financially. It is our only hope to match the enormous financial base of the other SEC schools. The idea that this is a small state in terms of population is true. The more important argument is that we are a small state financially compared to the others in the SEC.
  Arkansas State has tried for years to grow its program into a high Division 1 athletic program. There is nothing wrong with that. However, they have never been able to generate a strong financial base with alumni or donors. ASU's home attendance is slightly better the past few years. However, over the past 15 years they have not exceeded a paying attendance over 15,000 on average. In addition, if their tickets were $45-60 like an SEC school, they would average less than 10,000 a game easily. The major reason ASU supporters want this game is to weaken the UA in order to gain some of the financial prowess the UA currently enjoys.
  They have the opinion that by playing the UA, taunting the UA, and saying such absurd things such as "UA should have to prove their vast superiority", that will force the UA into the oven of a newly created heated rivalry. One that only offers financial advantages to ASU, and offers no plausible benefits for UA. They believe that by playing the UA, they will gain credibility among average fans across the state, as well as with potential high school recruits. The ASU message to most Arkansas recruits would be to "come to ASU and help us beat the Hogs", not to come to ASU and help us win the Sun Belt. Even you most ardent ASU supporters must acknowledge this, or risk your credibility in its entirety.
  The silliest argument continues to be "lets keep the money in the state", and that the Western Illinois games arent sold out. First, if the early games are not sold out, then they are within a very few tickets of doing so. There would be no financial windfall for anyone by selling an additional 500 tickets or so, and I do not even accept the premise of the argument to begin with. Just where does "all the money" come from? That money would come primarily from UA supporters/fans, which ASU in turn would anxiously put into its bank account. Then they would use that money to try and erode the statewide support the UA has earned over the past 100 years.
  While this would not happen overnight, eventually it would have some impact, even if minor. It is that effect that would make it that much harder for us to compete with LSU, Florida, Tennessee, etc. Many of you just think this would be a fun game to play. Others realize that it potentially does some level of damage to the UA program. Is that worth playing ASU? If keeping some of the money in state is a noble cause for ASU, then why dont we keep ALL the money in the state, and re-invent the old AIC all over again, and include UA and ASU as new members? The obvious and correct answer is that it is not.
  Many of you also argue that say..."come on...you play other Sun Belt teams"..Answer to that is simple. None of the other teams that we play pose any degree of risk to the foundation of the UA program which is a level of statewide support that most state universities only dream about. It is that support that allows us the opportunity to compete at a national level. For those of you that laugh at that, go check out the largest athletic budgets in Division 1.
  The truth of this matter is that Arkansas State has not and cannot grow their financial base without taking market share away from the UA. This is something they are acutely aware of. This is why you see the incessant postings on this worn out topic. Many of you also believe that the UA policy will soon change. You will be disappointed. I cannot tell you how many ASU supporters believed that the day the Frank Broyles left the AD position that the UA would fly directly to Jonesboro to sign a contract to play every year home and home. It didn't happen.
  None of this should be interpreted as a knock on ASU. It is not. However, the Razorbacks are the state's identity on a national level athletically. That is not going to change. In addition, I for one, am not interested in seeing the Razorbacks ''cut down to size" for the benefit of ASU supporters who do not support their own school financially in large mass as the UA does.
  For those of you who continue to raise this topic ad nausem, some suggestions. Please channel your efforts into selling more tickets at ASU, raising money for the Red Wolf club, and purchase all the Red Wolves attire you can afford. Get in your car and go to a game. If you are a journalist, and would rather cover ASU, I am sure KAIT could use you. But, please leave the Razorbacks out of it.
 

OK, I will bite one more time on this subject for the benefit of the 3-4 ASU supporters that sign up for Hogville every few weeks in order to raise this worn out topic.
  First, for those who argue that the UA policy is outdated and archaic, you miss the point. It is simply a policy that remains in the best interest of the UA pure and simple. For those of you who cannot understand the rationale for this policy, such as Mr. Lericos, let me offer an argument.
  The reality of the issue is that for the UA to have a reasonable chance to compete with LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, etc. it is imperative that we get all of the top Arkansas players both athletically and financially. It is our only hope to match the enormous financial base of the other SEC schools. The idea that this is a small state in terms of population is true. The more important argument is that we are a small state financially compared to the others in the SEC.
  Arkansas State has tried for years to grow its program into a high Division 1 athletic program. There is nothing wrong with that. However, they have never been able to generate a strong financial base with alumni or donors. ASU's home attendance is slightly better the past few years. However, over the past 15 years they have not exceeded a paying attendance over 15,000 on average. In addition, if their tickets were $45-60 like an SEC school, they would average less than 10,000 a game easily. The major reason ASU supporters want this game is to weaken the UA in order to gain some of the financial prowess the UA currently enjoys.
  They have the opinion that by playing the UA, taunting the UA, and saying such absurd things such as "UA should have to prove their vast superiority", that will force the UA into the oven of a newly created heated rivalry. One that only offers financial advantages to ASU, and offers no plausible benefits for UA. They believe that by playing the UA, they will gain credibility among average fans across the state, as well as with potential high school recruits. The ASU message to most Arkansas recruits would be to "come to ASU and help us beat the Hogs", not to come to ASU and help us win the Sun Belt. Even you most ardent ASU supporters must acknowledge this, or risk your credibility in its entirety.
  The silliest argument continues to be "lets keep the money in the state", and that the Western Illinois games arent sold out. First, if the early games are not sold out, then they are within a very few tickets of doing so. There would be no financial windfall for anyone by selling an additional 500 tickets or so, and I do not even accept the premise of the argument to begin with. Just where does "all the money" come from? That money would come primarily from UA supporters/fans, which ASU in turn would anxiously put into its bank account. Then they would use that money to try and erode the statewide support the UA has earned over the past 100 years.
  While this would not happen overnight, eventually it would have some impact, even if minor. It is that effect that would make it that much harder for us to compete with LSU, Florida, Tennessee, etc. Many of you just think this would be a fun game to play. Others realize that it potentially does some level of damage to the UA program. Is that worth playing ASU? If keeping some of the money in state is a noble cause for ASU, then why dont we keep ALL the money in the state, and re-invent the old AIC all over again, and include UA and ASU as new members? The obvious and correct answer is that it is not.
  Many of you also argue that say..."come on...you play other Sun Belt teams"..Answer to that is simple. None of the other teams that we play pose any degree of risk to the foundation of the UA program which is a level of statewide support that most state universities only dream about. It is that support that allows us the opportunity to compete at a national level. For those of you that laugh at that, go check out the largest athletic budgets in Division 1.
  The truth of this matter is that Arkansas State has not and cannot grow their financial base without taking market share away from the UA. This is something they are acutely aware of. This is why you see the incessant postings on this worn out topic. Many of you also believe that the UA policy will soon change. You will be disappointed. I cannot tell you how many ASU supporters believed that the day the Frank Broyles left the AD position that the UA would fly directly to Jonesboro to sign a contract to play every year home and home. It didn't happen.
  None of this should be interpreted as a knock on ASU. It is not. However, the Razorbacks are the state's identity on a national level athletically. That is not going to change. In addition, I for one, am not interested in seeing the Razorbacks ''cut down to size" for the benefit of ASU supporters who do not support their own school financially in large mass as the UA does.
  For those of you who continue to raise this topic ad nausem, some suggestions. Please channel your efforts into selling more tickets at ASU, raising money for the Red Wolf club, and purchase all the Red Wolves attire you can afford. Get in your car and go to a game. If you are a journalist, and would rather cover ASU, I am sure KAIT could use you. But, please leave the Razorbacks out of it.
 


Ark vs Ark St forget it, in this state, "It's All About Ark" they will get their way and they don't want the game, shameful , but that's the way it is!

[Choctaw Hog]

Actually I'm the one without an agenda. Some of you don't think outside your borders and realize a policy of ignoring in-state opponents somehow continues your monopoly.

  Gosh, ASU, UCA and the rest are really a threat to an SEC school in recruiting, booster dollars, etc? That's sad.

Not only that, I never said it had to be ASU. Play UCA every couple years. Play ASU in Fayetteville one year.

  And I have news, those directional school games have NOT been sellouts, and if you played an in-state school in Fayetteville, it would be. If the tickets don't go to Hog fans, so what? Some of you weren't going to begin with because the opponent was a joke.

  Same old arguments from the same people. It is polarizing, but I have a good idea that this policy won't live much longer.

Mark, I have a good idea that the policy will be in place much longer than you are in the state of Arkansas.  Isn't it about time for you to move on?

[Justifiable Hogicide]

OK, I will bite one more time on this subject for the benefit of the 3-4 ASU supporters that sign up for Hogville every few weeks in order to raise this worn out topic........

Thank you HogCzar1 for your well written and factual analysis.
It should be required reading for anyone interested in what you have so accurately described as this "worn out topic."

[NuttinItUp]

Here is a different way of looking at it that might help some of you guys: Would ASU want to play Arkansas if offered the game?

If the answer is yes, that they would jump at the opportunity because they really, really want to, then obviously they have something to gain from doing so. (and it is pretty easy to see what they have to gain and would take from the U of A)

Alternatively, if the answer is no, or a ho-hum yes. (a yes in the same manner that they could care less about playing anyone), then there is no reason to play the game in the first place, and they are doing as much to block the process as anything.


Another way to look at it: I am sure everyone would give a different percentage chance that the game would hurt the U of A. Some on one side would say that there is a 99% chance and some on the other side would say that there is only a 1% chance. Most of us are probably somewhere in the middle. The point is, if there is just a small chance (even as low as 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000) of the game hurting the U of A in the split state scenario, then I don't want to play the game. (of course, your motivations might be different if you liked ASU more than the U of A, but at least you can see where the other side is coming from, I suspect)


Ultimately, it doesn't really matter, though. Those who are in power and study the situation feel that there is little to be gained and much to be lost, so it isn't going to be happening anytime soon.

[NuttinItUp]

OK, I will bite one more time on this subject for the benefit of the 3-4 ASU supporters that sign up for Hogville every few weeks in order to raise this worn out topic.
  First, for those who argue that the UA policy is outdated and archaic, you miss the point. It is simply a policy that remains in the best interest of the UA pure and simple. For those of you who cannot understand the rationale for this policy, such as Mr. Lericos, let me offer an argument.
  The reality of the issue is that for the UA to have a reasonable chance to compete with LSU, Alabama, Georgia, Florida, etc. it is imperative that we get all of the top Arkansas players both athletically and financially. It is our only hope to match the enormous financial base of the other SEC schools. The idea that this is a small state in terms of population is true. The more important argument is that we are a small state financially compared to the others in the SEC.
  Arkansas State has tried for years to grow its program into a high Division 1 athletic program. There is nothing wrong with that. However, they have never been able to generate a strong financial base with alumni or donors. ASU's home attendance is slightly better the past few years. However, over the past 15 years they have not exceeded a paying attendance over 15,000 on average. In addition, if their tickets were $45-60 like an SEC school, they would average less than 10,000 a game easily. The major reason ASU supporters want this game is to weaken the UA in order to gain some of the financial prowess the UA currently enjoys.
  They have the opinion that by playing the UA, taunting the UA, and saying such absurd things such as "UA should have to prove their vast superiority", that will force the UA into the oven of a newly created heated rivalry. One that only offers financial advantages to ASU, and offers no plausible benefits for UA. They believe that by playing the UA, they will gain credibility among average fans across the state, as well as with potential high school recruits. The ASU message to most Arkansas recruits would be to "come to ASU and help us beat the Hogs", not to come to ASU and help us win the Sun Belt. Even you most ardent ASU supporters must acknowledge this, or risk your credibility in its entirety.
  The silliest argument continues to be "lets keep the money in the state", and that the Western Illinois games arent sold out. First, if the early games are not sold out, then they are within a very few tickets of doing so. There would be no financial windfall for anyone by selling an additional 500 tickets or so, and I do not even accept the premise of the argument to begin with. Just where does "all the money" come from? That money would come primarily from UA supporters/fans, which ASU in turn would anxiously put into its bank account. Then they would use that money to try and erode the statewide support the UA has earned over the past 100 years.
  While this would not happen overnight, eventually it would have some impact, even if minor. It is that effect that would make it that much harder for us to compete with LSU, Florida, Tennessee, etc. Many of you just think this would be a fun game to play. Others realize that it potentially does some level of damage to the UA program. Is that worth playing ASU? If keeping some of the money in state is a noble cause for ASU, then why dont we keep ALL the money in the state, and re-invent the old AIC all over again, and include UA and ASU as new members? The obvious and correct answer is that it is not.
  Many of you also argue that say..."come on...you play other Sun Belt teams"..Answer to that is simple. None of the other teams that we play pose any degree of risk to the foundation of the UA program which is a level of statewide support that most state universities only dream about. It is that support that allows us the opportunity to compete at a national level. For those of you that laugh at that, go check out the largest athletic budgets in Division 1.
  The truth of this matter is that Arkansas State has not and cannot grow their financial base without taking market share away from the UA. This is something they are acutely aware of. This is why you see the incessant postings on this worn out topic. Many of you also believe that the UA policy will soon change. You will be disappointed. I cannot tell you how many ASU supporters believed that the day the Frank Broyles left the AD position that the UA would fly directly to Jonesboro to sign a contract to play every year home and home. It didn't happen.
  None of this should be interpreted as a knock on ASU. It is not. However, the Razorbacks are the state's identity on a national level athletically. That is not going to change. In addition, I for one, am not interested in seeing the Razorbacks ''cut down to size" for the benefit of ASU supporters who do not support their own school financially in large mass as the UA does.
  For those of you who continue to raise this topic ad nausem, some suggestions. Please channel your efforts into selling more tickets at ASU, raising money for the Red Wolf club, and purchase all the Red Wolves attire you can afford. Get in your car and go to a game. If you are a journalist, and would rather cover ASU, I am sure KAIT could use you. But, please leave the Razorbacks out of it.
 

Good stuff.

[Brownie Tuggle]

Ahh dont play ASU because Frank says so! I think they should play.
16 years in the SEC and no outright SEC Title for Arkansas.

[hogdiggity]

Why?

Because all it does is polarize a fan base that is still trying to heal over the HDN stuff.  You are either ademantly for or against this event taking place.  There is no in between. 

[hogdiggity]

We'll have to take this to committee. My people will be in touch with your people. Give us West Memphis, Toad Suck, throw in Rose City and you've got yourself a deal.

You have to wonder about anyone that WANTS West Memphis!!!  But it may be slightly better than Crossett!!  If Arkansas were to get an enema, I'm pretty sure Crossett would be where you would stick it!!!

[HOGPICKER]

It's going to happen some day.  Sooners vs OSU; OSU vs Tulsa haven't
brought any programs down.  Look around the country, we're the exception,
definitely not the rule.

[Hogginitall]

It's going to happen some day.  Sooners vs OSU; OSU vs Tulsa haven't
brought any programs down.  Look around the country, we're the exception,
definitely not the rule.

Our situation is the exception, definitely not the rule.  We are in the most unique of situations in all of college football.  The University of Arkansas dominates the entire state.  It's smart to try to continue that dominance.  Don't give your possible competitors ANY room to take fans/recruits/resources away from your university.  It just wouldn't be a smart decision.

[Hogginitall]

And I don't think it will ever happen, short of the State Legislators mandating it.  That, or when ASU becomes relevant for more than 1/2 a season, whichever comes first.

[NuttinItUp]

It's going to happen some day.  Sooners vs OSU; OSU vs Tulsa haven't
brought any programs down.  Look around the country, we're the exception,
definitely not the rule.

Exactly, I don't want to split up the state like those other teams do. We need to stay the exception so we can be exceptional.

[FelixJonesorDMAC?]

Why should we be scared to lose to ASU?  It's pretty pathetic when Razorback fans think that we can lose to ASU.  If we lose to ASU, we probably would lose to ULM in the same season.  If we lose a recruit to ASU, then I don't want them here anyway.  This game should be played for economical reasons and for the game itself.  The environment would be unbelievable and sell out everytime.

Here's an idea.  Hey (insert any recruit name here), do you want to play in the SEC and get national exposure and play against the best, or do you want to play in the Sun Belt and be everyone's homecoming. 

To say we have more to lose than they do is Bush League.  Every recruit knows they have a hell of a lot better chance to make it to the NFL from U of A than ASU.

[joeyself]

Because all it does is polarize a fan base that is still trying to heal over the HDN stuff.  You are either ademantly for or against this event taking place.  There is no in between. 

Not true.  I gave a list of reasons why the game should take place--and believe it should--but I'm hardly worked up about it.  I understand the position of those against the game; it all seems based on fear, but fear can be a motivator. 

I'm actually in favor of scheduling more BCS conference teams, albeit the second tier of such, instead of another Sun Belter like ASU.  Let's play Iowa State or Baylor or North Carolina State instead of UL-Monroe or Western Illinois.   Of course, I want the program on better footing before such is done--and do realize games are scheduled years in advance when neither school can know for sure what they will have--and I understand A&M is going to mean we're going to get more rinky-dinks on the other non-conference games.   

But if we have to have patsies to fill in the schedule, it may as well be ASU.  It's good for the envirornment, since less travel is involved! 
JcS

[Hogginitall]

Not true.  I gave a list of reasons why the game should take place--and believe it should--but I'm hardly worked up about it.  I understand the position of those against the game; it all seems based on fear, but fear can be a motivator. 

I'm actually in favor of scheduling more BCS conference teams, albeit the second tier of such, instead of another Sun Belter like ASU.  Let's play Iowa State or Baylor or North Carolina State instead of UL-Monroe or Western Illinois.   Of course, I want the program on better footing before such is done--and do realize games are scheduled years in advance when neither school can know for sure what they will have--and I understand A&M is going to mean we're going to get more rinky-dinks on the other non-conference games.  

But if we have to have patsies to fill in the schedule, it may as well be ASU.  It's good for the envirornment, since less travel is involved! 
JcS

I don't think any of it has to do with fear.  It has to do with good business smarts.  I don't think the U of A should ever play ASU in any sport.  That said, I wouldn't be upset if they decided to do it.  I just don't care about playing ASU more than I do Louisiana-Monroe.  In fact, I think there are more advantages to playing ULM at War Memorial than there are to playing ASU.  I'd much rather see a game like that than I would an Arkansas-ASU "showdown".

If they decide to play ASU in the future, fine (although, I think it would be stupid from a business standpoint).  If they don't, fine.  Just stop trying to act like the reasoning is fear.  Also, stop trying to argue that the money would "remain in the state" if we played ASU instead of ULM.  That's the dumbest argument going.

[Sivad]

Poor little ole ASU still whining and "demanding" a game with the Hogs............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

[joeyself]

Let's just say:
Arkansas pays ULM .5M to play in Little Rock        (.5M goes out of state)
TAMU pays ASU .5M to play in College Station      (.5M comes into the state)

How is the "state" worse off?  Is money from Arkansas worth more than money from Texas?

No, your math is correct.  In fact, other posters have pointed out that the money flowing in versus what is going out may actually work better with ASU getting the paycheck from the Texas/A&M/Alabamas of the world.   There is more likelihood that a fan will travel from Jonesboro to Fayetteville than one will go to College Station, though, so there is another aspect of spending the dollars in the state.

Next, Arkansas has ULM locked into a long term contract for less money because ULM gets to count the attendance every other year as a home game so that ULM can keep their numbers high enough to stay D1.  ASU needs the money games and would be stupid to agree to take less money just so they could play Arkansas.

Agreed, if that were the only two options.  However, there's a cupcake game or two on ASU's schedule.  I have no information on this, but will be surprised if ASU would make as much from playing Texas Southern as they would playing the U of A.

Half of the schools you listed play in the same conference.  Several of the other matchups you mentioned are between two BCS schools. 

I got tired of looking up the schedules and quit after awhile; there are plenty of examples of U of A type schools playing ASU type out there.  Any Texas Big 10 schools that play a North Texas State or something like that. 

How about this.  Which Tennessee school plays Memphis?  Which Mississippi school plays Southern Miss?  Why doesn't Ohio State play Cincinnati?  Why doesn't Penn State play Pitt?

Others covered all but the last one.  I looked it up and found Penn State and Pitt last played in 2000.  There is a dispute about the details of a new contract; Penn State apparently wants a 2-1 or a 6-4 deal that Pitt won't do.  The debate doesn't seem to be if they should play the way it is in this state.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/living/homegarden/s_527243.html

JcS

[Hogginitall]

No, your math is correct.  In fact, other posters have pointed out that the money flowing in versus what is going out may actually work better with ASU getting the paycheck from the Texas/A&M/Alabamas of the world.   There is more likelihood that a fan will travel from Jonesboro to Fayetteville than one will go to College Station, though, so there is another aspect of spending the dollars in the state.


Agreed, if that were the only two options.  However, there's a cupcake game or two on ASU's schedule.  I have no information on this, but will be surprised if ASU would make as much from playing Texas Southern as they would playing the U of A.


I got tired of looking up the schedules and quit after awhile; there are plenty of examples of U of A type schools playing ASU type out there.  Any Texas Big 10 schools that play a North Texas State or something like that. 



Others covered all but the last one.  I looked it up and found Penn State and Pitt last played in 2000.  There is a dispute about the details of a new contract; Penn State apparently wants a 2-1 or a 6-4 deal that Pitt won't do.  The debate doesn't seem to be if they should play the way it is in this state.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribunereview/living/homegarden/s_527243.html

JcS

What other schools/states do in this regard should have absolutely no bearing on our decision to play ASU or not.  We truly are in a unique situation.  The only one like it in college football, unless you count Wyoming or some other team like them.

All of the "well, Tennessee plays Memphis" or "Arkansas is on an island by itself in this sort of thinking (not playing instate schools)" arguments are irrelevant because no other school is in our sort of situation (literally having support from 90% of the state).

[joeyself]

I don't think any of it has to do with fear.  It has to do with good business smarts. 

And if they were Wal-Mart and Target, I'd agree; these are both state supported schools.

No, it is fear on the U of A side.  Fear it would hurt recruiting.  Fear it would build up a rival and effect dollars.  Most of all, fear it would lose and the image be tarninshed. 

I don't think the U of A should ever play ASU in any sport. 

You remind me of a point that I forgot to make earlier--why not start in something other than football?  A basketball game, a baseball series, golf or tennis teams.   Let's gauge the interest that way.

That said, I wouldn't be upset if they decided to do it.  I just don't care about playing ASU more than I do Louisiana-Monroe.  In fact, I think there are more advantages to playing ULM at War Memorial than there are to playing ASU.  I'd much rather see a game like that than I would an Arkansas-ASU "showdown".

What advantages do you have in mind?  Recruiting in the Monroe area, perhaps?

If they decide to play ASU in the future, fine (although, I think it would be stupid from a business standpoint).  If they don't, fine.  Just stop trying to act like the reasoning is fear.  Also, stop trying to argue that the money would "remain in the state" if we played ASU instead of ULM.  That's the dumbest argument going.

The ULM game is not a good example, because of the arrangement that ULM counts it as a home game.  Better would be Western Illinois this year or Florida International last year.  There would assuredly be more interest in a game against ASU than FIU, wouldn't you agree?

JcS

[hogdiggity]

Not true.  I gave a list of reasons why the game should take place--and believe it should--but I'm hardly worked up about it.  I understand the position of those against the game; it all seems based on fear, but fear can be a motivator. 

I'm actually in favor of scheduling more BCS conference teams, albeit the second tier of such, instead of another Sun Belter like ASU.  Let's play Iowa State or Baylor or North Carolina State instead of UL-Monroe or Western Illinois.   Of course, I want the program on better footing before such is done--and do realize games are scheduled years in advance when neither school can know for sure what they will have--and I understand A&M is going to mean we're going to get more rinky-dinks on the other non-conference games.  

But if we have to have patsies to fill in the schedule, it may as well be ASU.  It's good for the envirornment, since less travel is involved! 
JcS

It may be not true with you, but if you go back and read some of the posts, there is some venom being spilled about this.   I tend to agree that if we are going to play the Sun Belt Conf, it might as well be ASU, but personally I'd rather see us get out of the patsies and into more mainstream, heck call Notre Dame, at least it would be on TV then!

[joeyself]

What other schools/states do in this regard should have absolutely no bearing on our decision to play ASU or not.  We truly are in a unique situation.  The only one like it in college football, unless you count Wyoming or some other team like them.

But just because we're unique doesn't mean it's right to continue to be such.  The list I came up with quickly included several national champions, and playing an instate rival or even a weak sister didn't change that. 

All of the "well, Tennessee plays Memphis" or "Arkansas is on an island by itself in this sort of thinking (not playing instate schools)" arguments are irrelevant because no other school is in our sort of situation (literally having support from 90% of the state).

And you think playing an inferior opponent, as ASU is viewed to be, will change that support?  Or is there a concern that playing them will expose that the U of A is not the power it is made out to be? 

The reason we look to other states is to give us an idea of whether playing ASU would be the great harm some perceive it to be.  Oklahoma has three main schools, but the Cowboy and Hurricane fans don't seem to put a dent in the love for the Sooners.  LSU is able to dominate in Louisiana, even with a pro team competing for fan interest. 

I looked at the states that were between 2 and 3 million for examples.   I think the situations in all these states will be known to all, so I'll not elaborate.

At 30, Iowa with 2.9 million. 

31 is Mississippi.

32 is Arkansas.

33 is Kansas.   

34 is Utah. 

35 is Nevada at 2.5 million.

I agree that Arkansas is THE major university in the state.  All the rest have instate schools playing each other.  What has our policy gotten us?  3 appearances in the SEC championship game over the 15 years or so we've been in the league.   No BCS game appearances.  A lousy bowl game record.   

So, playing ASU is going to make it worse, how, exactly?

JcS

[joeyself]

It may be not true with you, but if you go back and read some of the posts, there is some venom being spilled about this. 

I responded to "You are either ademantly for or against this event taking place.  There is no in between."   I'm sort of inbetween.   

I tend to agree that if we are going to play the Sun Belt Conf, it might as well be ASU, but personally I'd rather see us get out of the patsies and into more mainstream, heck call Notre Dame, at least it would be on TV then!

Well, we're seeing what playing a string of top 15 teams (or whatever Auburn will be this week) can do to a weak team.  I really don't mind a tune-up game or two; the schedule last year really put a bad taste in my mouth.  This year, Tulsa and Texas with the two (supposed) cupcakes was fine with me.  Texas A&M and someone like a Tulsa or Boise St. or Houston with the SEC schedule would be OK.

JcS

[astate]

I thought sports was about competition.  Apparently in Arkansas it is about MONEY.  The UA is the best team in the State of Arkansas.  Woo hoo!!! Yell it from Pinnacle Mountain.  People in California, Texas, New York, Florida, are all impressed when the UA football team comes to town because they are the best team in Arkansas.

I have said it before and I will say it again, as long as razorback football is more about the money than about competition the UA will never amount to anything.   They will always be a second tier program.   Unfortunately, ASU as long as they are in the Sun Belt will just always be a second tier program. 

[Hawgz4Life]

You have to wonder about anyone that WANTS West Memphis!!!  But it may be slightly better than Crossett!!  If Arkansas were to get an enema, I'm pretty sure Crossett would be where you would stick it!!!

Obviously you haven't been to Lake Village or Eudora.

[hogdiggity]

Obviously you haven't been to Lake Village or Eudora.

actually....I have, but I had been trying to forget it!

[hoggdaddy]

I am strongly for your avatar.  nice beams on that one.

Because all it does is polarize a fan base that is still trying to heal over the HDN stuff.  You are either ademantly for or against this event taking place.  There is no in between. 

[MountieDawg]

Dont play them because you dont want another loss on the schedule this year.

[Ceba]

Ever heard of South Carolina and Clemson????They do fine and its a huge rivalry

Arkansas 2.6 million people, South Carolina 4 million

[Ceba]

It's going to happen some day.  Sooners vs OSU; OSU vs Tulsa haven't
brought any programs down.  Look around the country, we're the exception,
definitely not the rule.

Arkansas 2.5 million Oklahoma 3.5 million

[Ceba]

Once again no one that supports this game has come up with a good reason of why it would be a good decision for the U of A to play them.  It has to be good for the Hogs and it isn't.

[MountieDawg]

In a state that always ranks in the bottom 5 of 50 in educations and income.  Keeping money in the state is good for business...  You could probably add $15 to the ticket a still sell out even in a lean season.  That adds over a million dollars to the U of A budget.  State Alcohol saes would be up for the winner and the loser...  I don't think you ever lose one fan from the Razorbacks to the Red Wolves...  You may have many that pull for both but you don't lose a single fan.  The biggest issue for ASU fans is that the Hogs wont play them...  You take that away and the state unites more!

[chiefsfan]

Arkansas 2.5 million Oklahoma 3.5 million

What does this have to do with anything?

[RICKHOGHEAD]

Once again no one that supports this game has come up with a good reason of why it would be a good decision for the U of A to play them.  It has to be good for the Hogs and it isn't.

I agree 100 percent.

[Mark Lericos]

Once again no one that supports this game has come up with a good reason of why it would be a good decision for the U of A to play them.  It has to be good for the Hogs and it isn't.

  So what's the advantage to playing UTC? Or Florida International?  Horrible schools (some Div I-AA)... I'd love to know the school's reason for scheduling those.  A rent-a-win? With ticket prices and the the economy, I'd want every game to have some relevance or regional interest.

  Cupcakes are fine here and there... but jeez you schedule everyone in the Sun Belt but ASU. That's kind of comical.


The idea that Arkansas is "unique" with their monopoly doesn't really make you special, or the envy of the country. And it certaintly hasn't resulted in BCS or National titles. Just sayin.

[SLC]

  So what's the advantage to playing UTC? Or Florida International?  Horrible schools (some Div I-AA)... I'd love to know the school's reason for scheduling those.  A rent-a-win? With ticket prices and the the economy, I'd want every game to have some relevance or regional interest.

  Cupcakes are fine here and there... but jeez you schedule everyone in the Sun Belt but ASU. That's kind of comical.

The idea that Arkansas is "unique" with their monopoly doesn't really make you special, or the envy of the country. And it certaintly hasn't resulted in BCS or National titles. Just sayin.

AR shouldn't play schools unless they can recruit the state. 
When we beat someone like, say, Troy St (just sayin) it will be in the papers and on the news back in AL. 

The Hogs already have "pub" in AR, so why play A-State?  It carries more negatives than positives IMO. 

I have no idea why we play Western IL other than an easy win or it was one of the only schools we could fit in that time slot.  Nor should we play a Western IL IMO. 
You are the sportscaster (and Scoop, we have been loyal followers of your show since last Nov).  Why don't you find out exactly the schedule is decided upon.

[elksnort]

That is BS about the state legislation having ANY control over the situation. 

It is solely the decision of the athletic departments. 

Tell your friend he is full of it. 

I believe the State Legislature in Florida mandated that Florida and FSU play in the late 1950s.

But hey, I am sure that I am full of it.

[Mark Lericos]

AR shouldn't play schools unless they can recruit the state. 
When we beat someone like, say, Troy St (just sayin) it will be in the papers and on the news back in AL. 

The Hogs already have "pub" in AR, so why play A-State?  It carries more negatives than positives IMO. 

I have no idea why we play Western IL other than an easy win or it was one of the only schools we could fit in that time slot.  Nor should we play a Western IL IMO. 
You are the sportscaster (and Scoop, we have been loyal followers of your show since last Nov).  Why don't you find out exactly the schedule is decided upon.

    If Arkansas didn't have trouble recruiting its own state, then Kodi Burns, Lee Ziemba, Zach Pianalto, etc would have come to Fayetteville.
   This program needs every single big-time recruit it can get.

  As for scheduling opponents, I have no objection to scheduling directional schools or a cupcake from anywhere-ville, EVERY SO OFTEN. The SEC is so tough, you almost have to.

  But why schedule Utah State when you could give the fans ASU or UCA? It is about power, and I don't believe these smaller schools deserve to be on the slate every season. Only when it fits the Hogs schedule, location, and if the situation works.  That's what Clemson, South Carolina, North Carolina, Tennessee, LSU, Ohio State, Alabama, Oklahoma... they all do the same thing.

[GoHogs#1]

Yeah, I can see a kid change his commit from Alabama to the Hogs because we beat Troy (Just Sayin)

[Mark Lericos]

Yeah, I can see a kid change his commit from Alabama to the Hogs because we beat Troy (Just Sayin)

   Arkansas wouldn't beat Troy this year. 

[pablo_escobar]

theres no reason for the hogs  not to play asu..other than fear from the hill...  if you cant beat  a state,  you sure as hell dont need to be worried about anything else

[Fatmanhog]

why does everyone make this about oh if its not good for arkansas then... piss on that thats idiotic just play the damn game, we are 1 message board and look at this. we all want this, i would make damn sure i would drive the 10 hours one way to watch this (if you could get a ticket) this is unique to say the least how many people remember the ASU vs UA basketball game? i can and i was there and if you old timers remember that was one of the most electrofying games i have been to. and i have been to most.

[HogCzar1]

First, I do not buy the fact that Arkansas could not beat Troy.
  Next, the idea stated above that the fact that the UA policy against playing in-state teams "hasn't resulted in any BCS or National Championships" is one of the more intellectually vapid arguments I have seen yet.
Even with HDN as coach, we were in the BCS title hunt until LSU defeated us in LR a few years ago after Thanksgiving. Of course, this does not mention the '94 Basketball team, or much further back the '64 Hogs.
  This policy is not designed to impress anyone outside the state. It is not designed to make us "the envy" of others. It is designed to give the UA the best opportunity to compete at the highest level with schools that have a much stronger population and financial base.
  I still have not seen any of the points rebutted about how the UA would benefit from in-state competition. Also, comparisons made such as UA vs ASU is ''like Clemson and South Carolina" are ludicrous. Which of those 2 schools would ASU resemble in terms of support? Of course, neither.
  If UA began a series with ASU, it would not be long before there would be concerns from ASU about the number of tickets they deserve, as well as eventually ''why cant we play in Jonesboro"?  Since, their stadium wouldnt be large enough, shazam..why dont we get the legislature to appropriate money for their expansion? After all, it is only fair...we did the convocation center for them....why not football as well?
  I would argue that these would be probable results of such policy. Of course, this would certainly assist ASU. They would have the opposite effect on UA.
I am not interested in the UA Football program reaching a level where the top ''rivalry" each year is a game with ASU. If we reach that point, then you do not need to worry about us competing at a high level in the SEC.
If ASU, and Mr. Lericos, are serious about playing UA, then here is your solution. Simply build your program to a point where you have 40 to 45,000 paying fans at each home football game paying $40 a ticket. Do this consistently over a period of 5-10 years. It is at that point that this game will naturally happen, and the UA would be more open to it.
Then you have the legitimate argument about Clemson and South Carolina. Until that time, can we please stop this juvenile argument on this topic?

[pablo_escobar]

first mention of the word  "vapid"  on this board..im impressed...  bottom line is this,  fayetteville doesnt have the balls to do it...its like the toughest guy at your high school backing down from the captain of the chess team.. it looks rather pussified...

[Fatmanhog]

we are not sc and clemson we are not OU ans OSU we are not louisville and kentucky, but tennessee and vandy? maybe it could escalate to that but maybe it could get to miss,  miss st, im now looking for excuses we dont any of those but we dont have the balls. if this was say oklahoma saying there is no need to play us what would we say? no not comparing us to them but just thinking logicaly, why would they want to play us? we are already in there state, why would ATM want to play us? its good for recruiting for arkansas right? has to be good for arkansas huh.

[dawginar]

I enjoy the fact that the UofA is paying GOOD money to everyone in the sunbelt but ASU...(sarcasm)..
but also understand IF UofA loses.....ASU plays Ulm this weekend i think....wonder the margin of victory?   Dont care for ASU but I am tired of sending taxpayers money to LA 2 times a year and not giving ASU and UALR any of it ......  JUST THINKING OUT LOUD