Statistical Impact Of Portis, Qualls, Madden & Harris gone.

[NS02]

I wondered what we are looking at in terms of numbers and real effective loss, setting emotions aside.  Here are what my research revealed: PQMH (The four players) provided 52 points per game to our 77 average, 67.53% of scoring.  They provided 21 rebound per game to our average of 36, 58.3% of rebounding.  They shot 438 Free throws to our total made free throws of 593, for 74%.  Free throws are measure of offensive activities of a player.  That means 74% of our offense came from these four.  Defensively PQMH blocked 107 shots vs our total of 168, 63.7%.  They had 128 Steals of the total 277, for 46.2%.  If we average all of these, the per game contributions of PQMH is 62%, with 38% coming form other players.  It's a big hit.  Coach A doesn't seem too worried about it.  He sees it as an opportunity for others to step up.  My opinion: No, sky hasn't fallen. With what we have and what is coming, we'll have another good team next year.       

[RazorPiggie]

Well of course MA doesn't seem worried about it. No coach in the NCAA should seem worried about losing players.

[reddogjcss]

Team game and now time for rest of team to step up.

[3of5-2]

First of all, nice breakdown of the stats OP. I had guessed these 4 were about 75% of the offense. A lot of the contribution of the others were a direct result of the attention that the other team focused on those four, thus leading to some easy or open buckets. It will be hard for us to compete next year, no reason to sugarcoat it that fact. However, it is a credit to MA and his program and the talent he has brought in. His next challenge will be to get those returning and the newcomers to step up and try and fill the shoes of the departing four. Portis and Qualls will be almost impossible to replace, and that would be the case for any team, except maybe Kentucky, that lost 2 players with NBA potential.

[Iwastherein1969]

this is a flawed concept....you lose 4 starters and if you had ANY success at all you will be losing the vast majority of your production on the floor....people have to step up and prove their worth...of course I'd like to have Portis and Qualls back, but that's the nature of things, even Sidney Moncrief had to go back in the day....we'll be just fine....Moses Kingsley is going to surprise some people next season....he'll have a great year

[Danny J]

We are going to struggle next year....that is a fact. No way around it. Those guys were the heart, soul and the experience plus 70% of the production not to mention guys who have played in this system which is not easy to grasp from day one and requires a lot of conditioning.

I like the addition of Whitt. He is a stud from day one and that will be clear. Kapita will be much like Moses was his freshman year. He will play very limited minutes. He has a nagging nerve injury that kept him out all season. It will be hard for him to be in game shape even playing for UVA or Wisconsin much less 40MOH.

As of right now we have no idea who the other 3 will be. Will it be a transfer who sits a year? Will it be a JUCO guy? Frazier? Do we save a spot for a 2016 guy?

As of right now here is the line-up for next year:

Beard
Bell
Watkins/Whitt
Williams
Kingsley

Think about that for a minute.

[NS02]

You left out J. Durham, Keaton Miles, Trey Thompson, Dustin Hannah, and Ted Kapita.  Durham is a good ball handler with good Assist to turnover ratio, and shoot 3's fairly well.  Hannah is an excellent sharp shooter, consistent, one we have not seen in sometime since Bradley.  Thompson is a big and skilled player that can complement Kingsley.  You mentioned Whitt, a play maker and shooter who can fill in for Qualls.  We are still going to have a pretty good team. 

[Thepigdoctor]

I look for Durham to have a much bigger role, as typical for second year JUCO players. IIRC, he averaged 32 ppg as a sophomore JUCO player, he just had a typical first division 1 year for a JUCO player.

Don't be surprised if he steps up in a big way. I'm hesitant to rely on Whitt to contribute significant ppg, no matter how good he is, he's still a frosh and there's a learning curve. I expect we'll see him have a Beard type season, quiet early, comes on during SEC play. Danny's comparison of Kapita/Kingsley is spot on. Don't expect much, he barely played this year due to the hip injury.

Hopefully Frazier gets his ACT score needed, bc I think he could be an immediate Qualls type player, not as good immediately, but better ball handler, and high ceiling. I'm not a fan of graduate transfer or JUCO kids as stop-gaps, let's find a freshman, even if a Qualls type project. We've got a decent core coming back and I look for Beard to explode next season as he improves his all around game.

The plus with Whitt, he has a very high release on his shot and if the speed of the game doesn't overwhelm him early, he could surprise. A healthy Miles should contribute more and if Jacorey makes a similar progression this season as last, he could be a real difference maker with his size and athleticism. I'm not sold on Thompson, so anything there is bonus.

Hannahs should provide some quality ppg and he's an underrated athlete.

One player who could be key to our success or failure, Bell. It's time for him to become a consistent threat.

[popcornhog]

this is a flawed concept....you lose 4 starters and if you had ANY success at all you will be losing the vast majority of your production on the floor....people have to step up and prove their worth...of course I'd like to have Portis and Qualls back, but that's the nature of things, even Sidney Moncrief had to go back in the day....we'll be just fine....Moses Kingsley is going to surprise some people next season....he'll have a great year

Here's the thing with Kingsley -- I actually believe that he could develop into an NBA talent. But his offensive game is really weak. His low post moves have shown improvement but for him to take the next step he must learn to finish at the rim and develop a short 4-8 foot jump shot.

[popcornhog]

We are going to struggle next year....that is a fact. No way around it. Those guys were the heart, soul and the experience plus 70% of the production not to mention guys who have played in this system which is not easy to grasp from day one and requires a lot of conditioning.

I like the addition of Whitt. He is a stud from day one and that will be clear. Kapita will be much like Moses was his freshman year. He will play very limited minutes. He has a nagging nerve injury that kept him out all season. It will be hard for him to be in game shape even playing for UVA or Wisconsin much less 40MOH.

As of right now we have no idea who the other 3 will be. Will it be a transfer who sits a year? Will it be a JUCO guy? Frazier? Do we save a spot for a 2016 guy?

As of right now here is the line-up for next year:

Beard
Bell
Watkins/Whitt
Williams
Kingsley

Think about that for a minute.

You don't think Kapita or Hannahs will contribute at all? And Durham could improve as well. Plus aren't we expected to add a JoCo or another high school grad?

[lefty08]

When breaking down scoring percentages you also have to break down shot attempts. Hard to score if you don't take shots. Amazingly everyone thought babb was a scorer despite us never seeing that in him as a player. Why do we think that? Because he left And the sky is obviously falling

[opineonswine]

Huge losses.  If we manage to be close to as good next year it will be amazing.  Looks like a rebuilding year for sure.  But, no, the sky is NOT falling. 

[Inhogswetrust]

Team game and now time for rest of team to step up.

I wonder if Cal is worried about who he loses.................Statistical losses can be meaningful OR meaningless depending on others stepping up, new players coming in AND what your opponents have coming back and/or loses. Coaches lose players almost every year. A BIG part of their job is to get new good ones. Sometimes they do a good job of that and sometimes they don't. There is never a reason to have a fear of the unknown though.

[HSVhogfan2]

this is a flawed concept....you lose 4 starters and if you had ANY success at all you will be losing the vast majority of your production on the floor....people have to step up and prove their worth...of course I'd like to have Portis and Qualls back, but that's the nature of things, even Sidney Moncrief had to go back in the day....we'll be just fine....Moses Kingsley is going to surprise some people next season....he'll have a great year

So Portis really left?!? You gotta be kidding me! I mean, you were so sure of yourself. It's got to be a misprint. I mean, you are always the smartest guy in the room. All the rest of us has ever done is play H-O-R-S-E or play pick-up games at the Y.

[HotlantaHog]

It's a big hit. I wonder what the 68% would compare with in recent years -- maybe similar to the year BJ Young and Marshawn Powell left. I also wonder how this would compare with other programs. Obviously, Kentucky is losing as much or more ... not exactly an apples and apples comparison, I know ...

My sense is that we'll be pleasantly surprised at how good the team is next year. The sky is not falling, indeed.

[hawkhawg]

In 1992 we lost our top five scorers that accounted for over 70 pts, our top four rebounders, Our top assist. Our top shot blocker, and our top steals. Sometimes it is not as bad as it seems.

[rzrbackramsfan]

I think the talent level we have will be similar to Bj and Marshawns final season, a little bit higher but not as much as coty clarkes final season. With a few right breaks and if we can have another good ooc schedule like last year we could definitely slip in the tourney.  Also, don't discount the fact that mike now has more player experienced within the system than ever.

[GatorHog]

In 1992 we lost our top five scorers that accounted for over 70 pts, our top four rebounders, Our top assist. Our top shot blocker, and our top steals. Sometimes it is not as bad as it seems.

Seriously, people underestimate how crap SEC is

[jry04]

Seriously, people underestimate how crap SEC is

SEC will be really good next season. Minimum of 4 teams in the top 25, with LSU, TX A&M, and UK being a top 15 team. I would be willing to bet we get 6 teams in the NCAAT.

A&M is the team to look out for next season, unfortunately. I think the addition of Anthony Collins is huge. 5th year senior, with 2 years of experience starting against the old Big East.

[hoglady]

SEC will be really good next season. Minimum of 4 teams in the top 25, with LSU, TX A&M, and UK being a top 15 team. I would be willing to bet we get 6 teams in the NCAAT.

A&M is the team to look out for next season, unfortunately. I think the addition of Anthony Collins is huge. 5th year senior, with 2 years of experience starting against the old Big East.

I wouldn't underestimate Ms. St. - they just got lots better with Newman.

[jry04]

I wouldn't underestimate Ms. St. - they just got lots better with Newman.

They were one of the 6 I think could make the ncaat, but they will not be any better than a bubble team with Newman, imo. I think Howland is a very good coach, but there is probably only 2 players currently on MSU's roster that even belong in major conference basketball.

[hoglady]

They were one of the 6 I think could make the ncaat, but they will not be any better than a bubble team with Newman, imo. I think Howland is a very good coach, but there is probably only 2 players currently on MSU's roster that even belong in major conference basketball.

SEC basketball will be interesting to watch next year - with the new coaches and the major talent that's been brought in. Many on here underestimate LSU and A&M and the impact their stellar recruiting will have. They don't think Johnny Jones can coach - heck maybe he can't. May not have to be a good coach to win with the #2 recruiting class.

[gmarv]

SEC basketball will be interesting to watch next year - with the new coaches and the major talent that's been brought in. Many on here underestimate LSU and A&M and the impact their stellar recruiting will have. They don't think Johnny Jones can coach - heck maybe he can't. May not have to be a good coach to win with the #2 recruiting class.

he sure did not do much with mickey and martin.

[hoglady]

he sure did not do much with mickey and martin.

He made the NCAA tourney.
Then lost by 1 point to NC State who went on to knock off #1 seed Villanova.
They won 22 games and finished 3rd in the SEC.
LSU wasn't bad this year.

[Hawg Red]

he sure did not do much with mickey and martin.

LSU has improved each year under Johnny Jones.

Sound familiar?

[jry04]

LSU has improved each year under Johnny Jones.

Sound familiar?

I know where you are going with this, but there are not too many people who follow college basketball nationally that would not argue that LSU has underachieved the past 2 seasons. This last season they lost to Auburn twice, Missouri, Tennessee by 15 at home, and Mississippi state. They had 5 former 4* recruits, and a 5* on the current team.

The year before, they had Martin, Mickey, O'Bryant, Quartermann, and Malik Morgan. All former top 100 and 4 or 5* players, and they went 20-14. Jones and his staff are great recruiters, but they have had talent two years in a row and underachieved. Next year they will have top 10 type talent, so it will be interesting to see what they do with that talent. 

[Hawg Red]

I know where you are going with this, but there are not too many people who follow college basketball nationally that would not argue that LSU has underachieved the past 2 seasons. This last season they lost to Auburn twice, Missouri, Tennessee by 15 at home, and Mississippi state. They had 5 former 4* recruits, and a 5* on the current team.

The year before, they had Martin, Mickey, O'Bryant, Quartermann, and Malik Morgan. All former top 100 and 4 or 5* players, and they went 20-14. Jones and his staff are great recruiters, but they have had talent two years in a row and underachieved. Next year they will have top 10 type talent, so it will be interesting to see what they do with that talent.

Like you said, you know where I'm going. It's not that Johnny Jones hasn't underachieved....

[Nipsey Mussle]

LSU has improved each year under Johnny Jones.

Sound familiar?

They have?

1st season: 19-12, and 9-9 in conference

2nd season: 20-14, and 9-9 in conference

They made the NIT in the second season, but if that's improvement, it's very slight. LSU's win total has increased by 3 total wins in his 3 years there.

Our win total has increased by 9 from the first year of MA to the most recent.

I'm sure you'll have reasons why none of that matters at all, but like it or not, their improvement is debatable while ours is not.

[Hawg Red]

They have?

1st season: 19-12, and 9-9 in conference

2nd season: 20-14, and 9-9 in conference

They made the NIT in the second season, but if that's improvement, it's very slight. LSU's win total has increased by 3 total wins in his 3 years there.

Our win total has increased by 9 from the first year of MA to the most recent.

I'm sure you'll have reasons why none of that matters at all, but like it or not, their improvement is debatable while ours is not.

Johnny Jones has been there 3 years, Mike here for 4. So we will compare the first 3 years, no? Don't think it's fair to include Mike's wins over 4 years to Jones' wins over 3 years, especially when we made a big jump in the 4th year.

Anderson
18-14 (6-10)
19-13 (10-8)
22-12 (10-8) - NIT

Jones
19-12 (9-9)
20-14 (9-9) - NIT
22-11 (11-7) - NCAA

I don't know, man. You tell me. 3 years in, who looks better? With the talent LSU has coming in, it's not unreasonable to project that they win 27 games like we did in Anderson's 4th year.  Also not unreasonable to project that Jones will blow it. I'm just saying, if I were a Hog fan, I wouldn't be too quick to trash Johnny Jones while, at the same time, using the "Mike's teams have improved each year" line.

[jry04]

Johnny Jones has been there 3 years, Mike here for 4. So we will compare the first 3 years, no? Don't think it's fair to include Mike's wins over 4 years to Jones' wins over 3 years, especially when we made a big jump in the 4th year.

Anderson
18-14 (6-10)
19-13 (10-8)
22-12 (10-8) - NIT

Jones
19-12 (9-9)
20-14 (9-9) - NIT
22-11 (11-7) - NCAA

I don't know, man. You tell me. 3 years in, who looks better? With the talent LSU has coming in, it's not unreasonable to project that they win 27 games like we did in Anderson's 4th year.  Also not unreasonable to project that Jones will blow it. I'm just saying, if I were a Hog fan, I wouldn't be too quick to trash Johnny Jones while, at the same time, using the "Mike's teams have improved each year" line.

The difference is, I feel Mike had those seasons with much less talent than Jones has had in his first 3 seasons. They are about even as far as results go. Also, the first season Mike was here our best player, Powell, was injured for the entire season. No doubt we win 4-5 more games that season and make the NIT, if not the NCAAT if Powell doesn't get hurt before the Houston game.

I personally am not trying to compare the two, though. I am just saying I do not think anyone can say Jones is a good coach at this point. I am not saying you are, though. He is a great recruiter, but has had 2 straight teams with top 25 type talent, but has yet to be a top 25 team. There is no reason a team of Mickey, Martin, and O'Bryant should lose 14 games in a season.

[Nipsey Mussle]

Johnny Jones has been there 3 years, Mike here for 4. So we will compare the first 3 years, no? Don't think it's fair to include Mike's wins over 4 years to Jones' wins over 3 years, especially when we made a big jump in the 4th year.

Anderson
18-14 (6-10)
19-13 (10-8)
22-12 (10-8) - NIT

Jones
19-12 (9-9)
20-14 (9-9) - NIT
22-11 (11-7) - NCAA

I don't know, man. You tell me. 3 years in, who looks better? With the talent LSU has coming in, it's not unreasonable to project that they win 27 games like we did in Anderson's 4th year.  Also not unreasonable to project that Jones will blow it. I'm just saying, if I were a Hog fan, I wouldn't be too quick to trash Johnny Jones while, at the same time, using the "Mike's teams have improved each year" line.

I'd definitely put my money on them not winning 27 games in 15-16'. Even if he's better than advertised, can Simmons make up for losing both Martin and Mickey? I know they have a solid sg coming in too but Jones has not shown the ability to get the most out of his talent.
I'd take MA every day over JJ...and I think you would too. JJ has been a better recruiter than MA during their time in the SEC (his assistant gets the credit for Simmons, though). MA is much, much better at actually coaching the team once they get on campus. Jones is not unlike Stan Heath. He can acquire the talent and then has no idea what to do with it. Jones looks lost on the sideline. I'm still waiting for his 2nd career facial expression.

Also, a baboon could've coached the NC St. game better than he did.

[Atlhogfan1]

LSU had no depth this past season and underwhelming guard play.  Six players who avg 24.5 mpg+ and no other player over 8.6 mpg and he only played in 25.  They did manage to win in BWA though even more shorthanded with Mickey out. 

Schedule plays a role in how many games a team wins.  We'll see what our schedules are. 

[Nipsey Mussle]

LSU had no depth this past season and underwhelming guard play.  Six players who avg 24.5 mpg+ and no other player over 8.6 mpg and he only played in 25.  They did manage to win in BWA though even more shorthanded with Mickey out. 

Schedule plays a role in how many games a team wins.  We'll see what our schedules are.

They had enough talent to beat us at our place without Mickey. Yet, they lost to Aubie twice I believe.
That's why I say JJ = Stan Heath and part of the reason I'd be pulling my hair out if he were our coach.

They were lucky as balls on lots of their shots against us. Patterson was hitting shots from the snout and probably can't reliably make open 8 footers in any other game. Still, I give them credit for beating us at home.

[Hawg Red]

I'd definitely put my money on them not winning 27 games in 15-16'. Even if he's better than advertised, can Simmons make up for losing both Martin and Mickey? I know they have a solid sg coming in too but Jones has not shown the ability to get the most out of his talent.
I'd take MA every day over JJ...and I think you would too. JJ has been a better recruiter than MA during their time in the SEC (his assistant gets the credit for Simmons, though). MA is much, much better at actually coaching the team once they get on campus. Jones is not unlike Stan Heath. He can acquire the talent and then has no idea what to do with it. Jones looks lost on the sideline. I'm still waiting for his 2nd career facial expression.

Also, a baboon could've coached the NC St. game better than he did.

Look, the numbers are there. His teams have gotten better each year, just like Anderson's have. Do I think Johnny Jones is a great coach? No. But that was never my point. I'm just pointing out some hypocrisy. Regardless of who the better coaches is or has been, their first 3 years are pretty comparable, and I'd even say Johnny Jones' has been slightly better. Has he had more talent? Sure. But that's a credit to him and his staff's recruiting ability. It's not something to be held against him. This is his first high-major job and he might be still feeling out these caliber of athletes as a head coach.

A lot of people thought Anderson would get Arkansas back to the NCAAs in Year 3 with Portis and a group of veteran guards (and Coty Clarke). We shouldn't act as if there's no argument to be made for Anderson underachieving before this past season. 

[Hawg Red]

The difference is, I feel Mike had those seasons with much less talent than Jones has had in his first 3 seasons. They are about even as far as results go. Also, the first season Mike was here our best player, Powell, was injured for the entire season. No doubt we win 4-5 more games that season and make the NIT, if not the NCAAT if Powell doesn't get hurt before the Houston game.

I personally am not trying to compare the two, though. I am just saying I do not think anyone can say Jones is a good coach at this point. I am not saying you are, though. He is a great recruiter, but has had 2 straight teams with top 25 type talent, but has yet to be a top 25 team. There is no reason a team of Mickey, Martin, and O'Bryant should lose 14 games in a season.

All I'm saying is that people love to dog Johnny Jones (first high-major head coaching gig) but they love to talk about how Anderson has improved Arkansas' record each year. Jones has done the same. Yes, he has more talent. That's undeniable. He and his staff are much better recruiters. He hasn't been terrible there like people try to say. Definitely a little underwhelming, but again, first high-major job and his teams have improved each year. That team could easily click this year and win 30 games.

[Nipsey Mussle]

Look, the numbers are there. His teams have gotten better each year, just like Anderson's have. Do I think Johnny Jones is a great coach? No. But that was never my point. I'm just pointing out some hypocrisy. Regardless of who the better coaches is or has been, their first 3 years are pretty comparable, and I'd even say Johnny Jones' has been slightly better. Has he had more talent? Sure. But that's a credit to him and his staff's recruiting ability. It's not something to be held against him. This is his first high-major job and he might be still feeling out these caliber of athletes as a head coach.

A lot of people thought Anderson would get Arkansas back to the NCAAs in Year 3 with Portis and a group of veteran guards (and Coty Clarke). We shouldn't act as if there's no argument to be made for Anderson underachieving before this past season.

1. Whether LSU improved from year 1 to year 2 is debatable. You may see going from 19-12 to 20-14 as obvious improvement. I consider it to be about the same.

2. I don't think I've ever used the "improved every year," but I do think it holds more water for MA than it does Jones. MA has improved the team for 4 years. In my opinion, the improvement has been clear. Jones stayed about the same in year 1, year 2 and then had growth in year 3. Jones hasn't had his chance at year 4 but it is indeed likely he will match or exceed last season's result. However, how big of a jump is yet to be determined.

3. I don't think the criticism of Jones is based on his results, necessarily. He's a poor man's Les Miles in that regard. He has adequate results but it's clear to even those with basic basketball IQ that the guy struggles coaching. As long as he keeps recruiting, they can potentially be an above average team on any given year.

4. You defend JJ's experience like he's a greenhorn. He's been a D1 HC for the last 15 years. Are you suggesting he hasn't been able to become accustomed to high caliber players during that time span?

[jry04]

All I'm saying is that people love to dog Johnny Jones (first high-major head coaching gig) but they love to talk about how Anderson has improved Arkansas' record each year. Jones has done the same. Yes, he has more talent. That's undeniable. He and his staff are much better recruiters. He hasn't been terrible there like people try to say. Definitely a little underwhelming, but again, first high-major job and his teams have improved each year. That team could easily click this year and win 30 games.

I get what you are saying, but basketball is basketball. The hardest part of taking a high major job is getting the recruiting to keep up with or pass the others in your conference. He had the talent, but his coaching seems to be underwhelming. If you have the players, it comes down to coaching. He had top 25 talent the last 2 years, but never cracked the top 25. Why is that? Anderson's first top 25 roster was this last season, and we spent about half of the season in the top 25, and finished in the top 25.

[Hawg Red]

I get what you are saying, but basketball is basketball. The hardest part of taking a high major job is getting the recruiting to keep up with or pass the others in your conference. He had the talent, but his coaching seems to be underwhelming. If you have the players, it comes down to coaching. He had top 25 talent the last 2 years, but never cracked the top 25. Why is that? Anderson's first top 25 roster was this last season, and we spent about half of the season in the top 25, and finished in the top 25.

Because Anderson is a better coach?

Again, not my point...

[Hawg Red]

1. Whether LSU improved from year 1 to year 2 is debatable. You may see going from 19-12 to 20-14 as obvious improvement. I consider it to be about the same.

2. I don't think I've ever used the "improved every year," but I do think it holds more water for MA than it does Jones. MA has improved the team for 4 years. In my opinion, the improvement has been clear. Jones stayed about the same in year 1, year 2 and then had growth in year 3. Jones hasn't had his chance at year 4 but it is indeed likely he will match or exceed last season's result. However, how big of a jump is yet to be determined.

3. I don't think the criticism of Jones is based on his results, necessarily. He's a poor man's Les Miles in that regard. He has adequate results but it's clear to even those with basic basketball IQ that the guy struggles coaching. As long as he keeps recruiting, they can potentially be an above average team on any given year.

4. You defend JJ's experience like he's a greenhorn. He's been a D1 HC for the last 15 years. Are you suggesting he hasn't been able to become accustomed to high caliber players during that time span?

I'm suggesting that Johnny Jones may still be adjusting to coaching multiple 4 and 5 star recruits on the same team. That can be a tough task, believe it or not. Like you said, it is clear he's a questionable coach. That was never my point, either. My point was that the one and strongest defense of Anderson around has been that he's improved the record each year. But, in the same breath, people will trash Johnny Jones despite doing the same thing. Anderson's a better coach. How much better? Debatable. The ability to recruit top talent is still part of coaching and Jones has that in his favor. It definitely makes up for some of his shortcomings, but that's just the way it goes sometimes. I think Jones is somewhat like Scott Drew. Took him a minute to get going at Baylor (inherited a major mess, though). But he's a guy who people criticize as a coach but the recruiting is there. He has two Elite 8s and a Sweet 16 at Baylor. We'll see what Jones does, but I wouldn't be so quick to take shots if I'm a Hog fan.

[Atlhogfan1]

LSU's recent talent:

Johnny O'Bryant III - F - 2nd round pick avg 2.8 ppg 1.9 reb in his rookie season
Jarell Martin - F - Late 1st - 2nd R projected pick
Jordan Mickey - F - 2nd R projected pick

Guards?  Hickey and Stringer were okay. 

Josh Gray - 182 turnovers in 2 D1 seasons

Not seeing loads of talent over the past 3 seasons.  A few good players and the majority of their roster dead weight for the most part. 

[Nipsey Mussle]

I'm suggesting that Johnny Jones may still be adjusting to coaching multiple 4 and 5 star recruits on the same team. That can be a tough task, believe it or not. Like you said, it is clear he's a questionable coach. That was never my point, either. My point was that the one and strongest defense of Anderson around has been that he's improved the record each year. But, in the same breath, people will trash Johnny Jones despite doing the same thing. Anderson's a better coach. How much better? Debatable. The ability to recruit top talent is still part of coaching and Jones has that in his favor. It definitely makes up for some of his shortcomings, but that's just the way it goes sometimes. I think Jones is somewhat like Scott Drew. Took him a minute to get going at Baylor (inherited a major mess, though). But he's a guy who people criticize as a coach but the recruiting is there. He has two Elite 8s and a Sweet 16 at Baylor. We'll see what Jones does, but I wouldn't be so quick to take shots if I'm a Hog fan.

I don't think "improved every year" is the strongest defense of MA but otherwise I see your point, good sir. For me, JJ's true test will be after Simmons leaves. If his recruiting slips, he will be in major trouble. I just would have trouble being a fan of one of his teams. I'd be pissed pretty much every game. Two of my good friends are Lsu fans and they cannot stand JJ. They appreciate what he has brought to the table but also find it excruciating to watch his teams play.

One thing is for sure, MA and JJ have both outperformed their most recent predecessors by a wide margin. Can't take that away from either one.

[Nipsey Mussle]

LSU's recent talent:

Johnny O'Bryant III - F - 2nd round pick avg 2.8 ppg 1.9 reb in his rookie season
Jarell Martin - F - Late 1st - 2nd R projected pick
Jordan Mickey - F - 2nd R projected pick

Guards?  Hickey and Stringer were okay. 

Josh Gray - 182 turnovers in 2 D1 seasons

Not seeing loads of talent over the past 3 seasons.  A few good players and the majority of their roster dead weight for the most part.

To each their own in terms of you not seeing talent there.

Quarterman is likely the most talented guard they've had in JJ's time there. He's just very hit or miss. Gray is of the same ilk. He can either look like Steve Nash or Graham Nash.

[jry04]

LSU's recent talent:

Johnny O'Bryant III - F - 2nd round pick avg 2.8 ppg 1.9 reb in his rookie season
Jarell Martin - F - Late 1st - 2nd R projected pick
Jordan Mickey - F - 2nd R projected pick

Guards?  Hickey and Stringer were okay. 

Josh Gray - 182 turnovers in 2 D1 seasons

Not seeing loads of talent over the past 3 seasons.  A few good players and the majority of their roster dead weight for the most part. 

What difference does it make where they are drafted? How they project as a pro doesn't necessarily mean how good they were as a college player. Marshawn was a former 4* player that averaged double digits all 4 seasons at Arkansas, with one season being 19 pts 6 reb. He didn't get drafted.

Qualls is likely going undrafted or mid-late 2nd round, and he was a pretty good college player. Zach Lavine was nothing more than a role player at UCLA, that averaged 9 ppg. He was a lottery pick last season. It is all about how you project at the next level. Kaminsky is going to be lucky to be a lottery pick, and he won POY. Do you think there were 15 players in college or high school basketball better than him over this last season?

There is a reason just about everyone in the country had LSU finishing ahead of the Hogs this season, and challenging UK for the SEC. LSU had possibly the 2nd most talented roster in the SEC. Jones had talent on campus, and added more talent. It is up to the coach to help those top 100 players reach their potential, and Jones has yet to do that in his early career at LSU.

[Nipsey Mussle]

What difference does it make where they are drafted? How they project as a pro doesn't necessarily mean how good they were as a college player. Marshawn was a former 4* player that averaged double digits all 4 seasons at Arkansas, with one season being 19 pts 6 reb. He didn't get drafted.

Qualls is likely going undrafted or mid-late 2nd round, and he was a pretty good college player. Zach Lavine was nothing more than a role player at UCLA, that averaged 9 ppg. He was a lottery pick last season. It is all about how you project at the next level. Kaminsky is going to be lucky to be a lottery pick, and he won POY. Do you think there were 15 players in college or high school basketball better than him over this last season?

There is a reason just about everyone in the country had LSU finishing ahead of the Hogs this season, and challenging UK for the SEC. LSU had possibly the 2nd most talented roster in the SEC. Jones had talent on campus, and added more talent. It is up to the coach to help those top 100 players reach their potential, and Jones has yet to do that in his early career at LSU.

+1

[Atlhogfan1]

What difference does it make where they are drafted? How they project as a pro doesn't necessarily mean how good they were as a college player. Marshawn was a former 4* player that averaged double digits all 4 seasons at Arkansas, with one season being 19 pts 6 reb. He didn't get drafted.

Qualls is likely going undrafted or mid-late 2nd round, and he was a pretty good college player. Zach Lavine was nothing more than a role player at UCLA, that averaged 9 ppg. He was a lottery pick last season. It is all about how you project at the next level. Kaminsky is going to be lucky to be a lottery pick, and he won POY. Do you think there were 15 players in college or high school basketball better than him over this last season?

There is a reason just about everyone in the country had LSU finishing ahead of the Hogs this season, and challenging UK for the SEC. LSU had possibly the 2nd most talented roster in the SEC. Jones had talent on campus, and added more talent. It is up to the coach to help those top 100 players reach their potential, and Jones has yet to do that in his early career at LSU.

It matters when you are trying to oversell a team's supposed talent as in this case.  No need to lecture on projections or how the NBA drafts.   

LSU had two really good college players this season.  After that, no depth like most SEC teams this past season.  It wasn't a talented roster.

Nobody had anyone challenging UK this past season in the SEC.  Again, overselling and exaggerating.  The speculation actually was how would the weakness of the SEC leave UK unchallenged and would it affect them in the postseason. 

[SPAL]

In 1992 we lost our top five scorers that accounted for over 70 pts, our top four rebounders, Our top assist. Our top shot blocker, and our top steals. Sometimes it is not as bad as it seems.

Do we have anybody close to what that next team had incoming? 

Of course not.