do not get what we are doing in hoops at all

[Modsquad24]

we want to be a pressing and trapping team, but we got guards shorter than me and ran off the one with length besides farmer who dont have great handles....maybe im old school but i thought trapping teams were like Memphis last yr tall guards with long arms getting in passing lanes for steals n deflections. I'll wait to judge but if this year is not drastically better im done with Pel

[chiefsfan]

we want to be a pressing and trapping team, but we got guards shorter than me and ran off the one with length besides farmer who dont have great handles....maybe im old school but i thought trapping teams were like Memphis last yr tall guards with long arms getting in passing lanes for steals n deflections. I'll wait to judge but if this year is not drastically better im done with Pel

We didnt run Henry off.   Henry ran himself off

Tall guards is going to be a weakness.  But I dont see it being nearly as big of a deal this year

[TRUHOG718]

we want to be a pressing and trapping team, but we got guards shorter than me and ran off the one with length besides farmer who dont have great handles....maybe im old school but i thought trapping teams were like Memphis last yr tall guards with long arms getting in passing lanes for steals n deflections. I'll wait to judge but if this year is not drastically better im done with Pel

I wont say Im done. I would like to see us going in the right direction by playing the team players and sitting the Whiners and ball hogs,  setting our future up around a more team concept.  If were going to lose at least we can lose with direction and a Master Plan instead of losing in Clusterf#*K fashion.   Does that make sense??

[Modsquad24]

well yah henry did f up himself.....but the pressing=tall guards thing is fact look at our NC  team, maybe he has a super duper secret master plan or maybe theyll pull a Pippen and grow 7 inches in a year, but right now im not buying in at this point

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

maybe we will get lucky and welsh will leave too.

[heathtits]

Me either. HOPEFULLY the coaches do. Key word there at the beginning.

[heathtits]

maybe we will get lucky and welsh will leave too.

Yes that'd be SWEET!! Lose our best perimeter defender, depth and another hit on the APR. Yes, bring it on baby.

[HawgAdvocate]

well yah henry did f up himself.....but the pressing=tall guards thing is fact look at our NC  team, maybe he has a super duper secret master plan or maybe theyll pull a Pippen and grow 7 inches in a year, but right now im not buying in at this point

Mike Anderson didn't have a bunch of tall guards at UAB when he went to the Sweet 16. Squeaky Johnson was smaller than anyone on our team. Demario Eddins played the 4 for looong stretches.

It can be done without a bunch of 6'5" monsters. The taller they are, the less agile they are. We're after Adonis Thomas, Chris Carter, and Mardracus Wade from Memphis. Purifoy from Conway is another. They're not small fries.  You gotta get the best players available.

The only real small fries are Rotnei at the SG and Nobles at the PG. And Nobles is a fantastic defender. Fort is ridiculously strong and, outside of his jumper, shouldn't even be questioned for his skills right now. 

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

Yes that'd be SWEET!! Lose our best perimeter defender, depth and another hit on the APR. Yes, bring it on baby.

See, I'm torn between this and Welsh staying. On one hand the ball seems like it sticks to him and he takes horrible shots.

On the other hand, he can play defense, he's 6'5 or so, is our most senior member of the team and can really play both guard positions.

[athunt]

Tall guards is going to be a weakness.  But I dont see it being nearly as big of a deal this year

Our 2 weakest areas were perimeter defending and not having a #2 low post option last year. Getting Powell to campus helps with the low post but losing Henry kills our perimeter D. How does that not qualify as problem? Care to elaborate your thinking?

[MJ4H]

Because we were forced into a different playing style last year due to lack of depth.  That won't be a problem this year.

[Biggus Piggus]

we want to be a pressing and trapping team, but we got guards shorter than me and ran off the one with length besides farmer who dont have great handles....maybe im old school but i thought trapping teams were like Memphis last yr tall guards with long arms getting in passing lanes for steals n deflections. I'll wait to judge but if this year is not drastically better im done with Pel

Henry ran himself off.

[HawgAdvocate]

Our 2 weakest areas were perimeter defending and not having a #2 low post option last year. Getting Powell to campus helps with the low post but losing Henry kills our perimeter D. How does that not qualify as problem? Care to elaborate your thinking?

The perimeter D was a problem because we were playing a 2-3 zone due to depth issues. Even if Henry were still here, and if we were still playing a 2-3 zone (which we won't see much of this year), Henry would most likely be on the baseline anyway.

[bigdaddyhawg]

well yah henry did f up himself.....but the pressing=tall guards thing is fact look at our NC  team, maybe he has a super duper secret master plan or maybe theyll pull a Pippen and grow 7 inches in a year, but right now im not buying in at this point

The '94 NC team didn't have prototypical "big guards".  Clint was 6'3" and Corey was 6'2".  Not small, but not like the guy was talking about Memphis' guards last year.

The second best Nolan team had Lee Mayberry, at 6'2"-3", and Arlyn Bowers, who was 5'9".  Those two guys wreaked havoc on opposing guards.

Nolan's next best team had Kareem Reid, at 5'10" or so, and Pat Bradley, at 6'1" or so.  Not big guards either, and those teams were stout on defense.

In college BB, good is good.  Sure it would be nice to have a set of guards out there like the freshman PG from Memphis last year who was a lottery pick, but there aren't a couple of guys like that each year in the entire NCAA.

The best pressing team John Wooden ever had at UCLA won him his first NC with Hazard and Goodrich at guard, and they weren't big guards.

The beauty of BB is that it can be done in many, many ways.  All we really care about is if it gets done, right?

[Tomhog™]

I'm just going to sit back and see what happens this upcoming season.  There will no doubt be improvement, but how much is the question.

[newhog]

Welsh 6'5,that is a joke.Go to a game and see that he is 6'2.

[HogKongPhooey]

Because we were forced into a different playing style last year due to lack of depth.  That won't be a problem this year.

Can I quote you on this?  Sounds like we are in for a good year then.

[mbgrulz]

Yes that'd be SWEET!! Lose our best perimeter defender, depth and another hit on the APR. Yes, bring it on baby.

How much good would it do to run off our worst teammate?

He is a cancer in the lockerroom. 

Bring it on please!!!

[ruarealhogfan]

See, I'm torn between this and Welsh staying. On one hand the ball seems like it sticks to him and he takes horrible shots.

On the other hand, he can play defense, he's 6'5 or so, is our most senior member of the team and can really play both guard positions.

To be fair, in 2 less minutes per game, Welsh had twice as many assists as Rotnei did...

[The Boar War]

Henry had to go.  Anyone that refuses to play in a game should have his wish granted..... perminently. 

[jry04]

we want to be a pressing and trapping team, but we got guards shorter than me and ran off the one with length besides farmer who dont have great handles....maybe im old school but i thought trapping teams were like Memphis last yr tall guards with long arms getting in passing lanes for steals n deflections. I'll wait to judge but if this year is not drastically better im done with Pel

Farmer will be a stud. Most scouts and recruiting services seem to think he will be a huge key to our team.

I would be willing to bet Farmer has just as good of handles as Henry. It is funny how all of these people that try and sound down all the time turn every positive into a negative. I am sure you think Powell being qualified was somehow bad news, too.

[heathtits]

How much good would it do to run off our worst teammate?

He is a cancer in the lockerroom. 

Bring it on please!!!

So he's the only cancer?

Like I said, what does that make Fortson and Welsh?

Somewhere down the line, the guys getting paid all the money should shoulder some blame for the player's character and attitude management. After all isn't that part of their jobs? It's the least they could accomplish considering they aren't winning major battles in recruiting or as of last season, simple victories in the SEC either.

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

To be fair, in 2 less minutes per game, Welsh had twice as many assists as Rotnei did...

Is that true? That's really surprisng.

[chiefsfan]

Is that true? That's really surprisng.

Welsh got alot more touches then clarke though and Rotnei was a spot shooter.   im not surprised

[bigdaddyhawg]

To be fair, in 2 less minutes per game, Welsh had twice as many assists as Rotnei did...

Yes, but Welsh also played backup PG to Fortson all year, so a lot of his minutes were over there.  Plus he was a junior, and we should expect more from our more experienced players, right?

[HawgAdvocate]

Yes, but Welsh also played backup PG to Fortson all year, so a lot of his minutes were over there.  Plus he was a junior, and we should expect more from our more experienced players, right?

That really doesn't matter, as Welsh isn't a true PG and didn't play like one. The main diference is that Welsh was much more aggresive with the ball in his hands last year than Rotnei was. Rotnei showed flashes late in the year of doing with more with the rock other than chucking treys. But for the most part, Roteni was passing it back to the top of the key if he felt he wasn't open for a shot.

I (and many others) harped on this for most of the season. Rotnei needs to put the ball on the floor and create more opportunities for himself (he's an amazing FT shooter if he'd ever get to the line) or others. Opposing defenders and coaches who did their homework knew he rarely put it on the floor, so when he did, he normally found success. 

Welsh was wreckless much of the time, but at the same time he was generating offense from both inside and outside the three point line when few others exhibited that versatility.

[thirtythree]

Has it been confirmed that Welsh is gone? I haven't seen it yet.

[Pigsknuckles]

Has it been confirmed that Welsh is gone? I haven't seen it yet.

Welsh not listed in this article

http://beyondthearc.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/07/07/1989083.aspx

[HawgAdvocate]

Has it been confirmed that Welsh is gone? I haven't seen it yet.

No. He's on thin ice. That's about it.

[kingofdequeen]

No. He's on thin ice. That's about it.

other than powell and rot, who the f isn't on thin ice?

spot on anaylsis of the 2-3 zone situation (and J.henrys spot on the baseline). +1

[heathtits]

No. He's on thin ice. That's about it.

Great, so we lose Welsh, our best perimeter defender and we have to go back to the dreaded zone with a bunch of new guys and freshman.

This could be uglier than last year fellas.

[newhog]

So your saying Welsh is our savior?

[heathtits]

So your saying Welsh is our savior?

Absolutely not. One of my least favorite players on our team BUT we now only have 1 senior, who is an average leader at best and we lose ANOTHER one of our decently sized guards if he goes.

If Welsh is gone, it basically puts us EXACTLY where we were last year depth wise and even worse size and length wise.

If Welsh goes, I will have serious worries about the IQ level of our coach. Does he really think his discipline speel is going to matter to fans if we have another season like last year?

Digging his own grave if this is the case.

[Jim Harris]

How much good would it do to run off our worst teammate?

He is a cancer in the lockerroom. 

Bring it on please!!!

How do you know he's a cancer in the lockerroom? Because someone else said that on here? Are you in the lockerroom?

[heathtits]

How do you know he's a cancer in the lockerroom? Because someone else said that on here? Are you in the lockerroom?

Nah grulz knows his shite. But ridding of Henry doesn't change our coach's inflexible country ego.

Pel-"Gee golly, me and Tom had no idea Jason was like this during recruitment, you just cant predict these things" followed by some cliche program euphemism about living up to program standards yada yada yada.

[Pigsknuckles]

Absolutely not. One of my least favorite players on our team BUT we now only have 1 senior, who is an average leader at best and we lose ANOTHER one of our decently sized guards if he goes.

If Welsh is gone, it basically puts us EXACTLY where we were last year depth wise and even worse size and length wise.

If Welsh goes, I will have serious worries about the IQ level of our coach. Does he really think his discipline speel is going to matter to fans if we have another season like last year?

Digging his own grave if this is the case.

Agreed. It was really disturbing to see 5 on the floor (playing their own game), and only 2 or 3 on the bench some games. I don't see this as just a discipline thing, it's the entire program. The strong programs can weather the occasional rebuilding year, calamities, or player/staff losses. They can go on auto pilot (so to speak), in tough times, assuming the organizational structure, and culture, is sound. Our recent focus on the soap opera that was the last couple of Nutt/Broyles years turned most's attention away from the basketball program, and that neglect revealed it's vulnerabilities. The seeds of destruction were sown long before Pelphrey arrived. Altman saw this, and quickly weighed anchor. I'm not giving Coach P a pass (please, no 2 year pass jokes), but this boat was sinking long before he arrived. I'm afraid a top to bottom, brick by brick, reorganization is in order here to get us back to the prominence we were once accustomed. If that means staff changes, then so be it, but if we don't look at the way we do things, no one individual will be able to right this ship.

[Beaverfever]

Yeah I don't care for Welsh on the court particularly but with Henry out we clearly have no other options.  And welsh is 6'2 1/2 probably. 

[ruarealhogfan]

Nah grulz knows his crape. But ridding of Henry doesn't change our coach's inflexible country ego.

Pel-"Gee golly, me and Tom had no idea Jason was like this during recruitment, you just cant predict these things" followed by some cliche program euphemism about living up to program standards yada yada yada.

Don't you think you are getting a little carried away?  Did Petrino recruit these kids who have been getting in trouble on the football team.  Funny thing is during all of that, not once did anyone blame the coach.  It was all the kids fault (which it is).  A little consistency would be nice.  Pel gave this kid a scholarship & a chance to do right BOTTOM LINE.  Not going to class, getting into trouble & refusing to go into basketball games do not fall into that category & are not tolerated & I highly doubt Bobby Petrino would put up with that sh** either...

[heathtits]

Don't you think you are getting a little carried away?  Did Petrino recruit these kids who have been getting in trouble on the football team.  Funny thing is during all of that, not once did anyone blame the coach.  It was all the kids fault (which it is).  A little consistency would be nice.  Pel gave this kid a scholarship & a chance to do right BOTTOM LINE.  Not going to class, getting into trouble & refusing to go into basketball games do not fall into that category & are not tolerated & I highly doubt Bobby Petrino would put up with that sh** either...

What Petrino recruits are getting in trouble? Battle is a Nutt boy and Askew's charges were dropped.

Besides, apples to oranges. One lost player on a football team can be made up for. When you are as slim as we are in bball, it cannot nearly as easily. Not to mention Petrino has recruited loads of other highly regarded recruits. Pelphrey and apprentice have not.

[Pigsknuckles]

Don't you think you are getting a little carried away?  Did Petrino recruit these kids who have been getting in trouble on the football team.  Funny thing is during all of that, not once did anyone blame the coach.  It was all the kids fault (which it is).  A little consistency would be nice.  Pel gave this kid a scholarship & a chance to do right BOTTOM LINE.  Not going to class, getting into trouble & refusing to go into basketball games do not fall into that category & are not tolerated & I highly doubt Bobby Petrino would put up with that sh** either...

You have revealed common problem in administering a basketball program. A hoops coach is in a tough spot just due to sheer player/staff numbers. A Football coach has a pool of maybe a hundred kids to fill any holes in the squad attrited by whatever reason. He may not fill that hole with desired talent, but warm bodies aren't a problem. Plus, there is more staffing for crowd control and organizational issues. A basketball coach generally doesn't have that luxury. A bad night on Dickson street, and you can't even field a pick up game. A hoops coach has to make discipline decisions that don't end up throwing the baby out with the bath water, especially when he has to deal with immature kids that need a nanny worse than a coach. Not making excuses for Pelphrey, just trying to understand his dilemma.

[HawgAdvocate]

What Petrino recruits are getting in trouble? Battle is a Nutt boy and Askew's charges were dropped.

Besides, apples to oranges. One lost player on a football team can be made up for. When you are as slim as we are in bball, it cannot nearly as easily. Not to mention Petrino has recruited loads of other highly regarded recruits. Pelphrey and apprentice have not.

Askew's charges being dropped still doesn't change the fact that he commited a crime. He got very lucky. He's not the only one either. This isn't the first laptop stolen during the off-season. You just don't hear about all of them.

[Beaverfever]

Askew's charges being dropped still doesn't change the fact that he commited a crime. He got very lucky. He's not the only one either. This isn't the first laptop stolen during the off-season. You just don't hear about all of them.

If nobody hears about it then it doesn't matter.  Petrino is doing a good job keeping issues in house.  Pel...not so much. 

[HawgAdvocate]

If nobody hears about it then it doesn't matter.  Petrino is doing a good job keeping issues in house.  Pel...not so much. 

While I don't agree that it doesn't matter....

Pel is suspending players when they do wrong. Most of these issues took place during the season. He has to announce why players aren't playing, otherwise you get the radio shows and newspapers asking aloud what is going on (ie Marcus Monk).

Petrino's issues are mainly taking place in the offseason, especially the silent ones. Big difference there. If Mallett didn't start or play for two weeks, and no one knew why, many of you would be going nuts.

[Porkatarian]

Pel is suspending players when they do wrong.

I don't remember Pelphrey suspending Welsh for the incident that happened after the SEC tournament. 


Porkatarian out...

[heathtits]

I don't remember Pelphrey suspending Welsh for the incident that happened after the SEC tournament. 


Porkatarian out...

Exactly the problem.

Inconsistency. Don't forget how many of Fortson's issues got swept under the rug. Does the coach think the other kids aren't going to find out?