Henry Out for Hoops Hogs

[12247]

Lets remember when we say 4 of 6 recruits have been sent packing so far that McDonald and Henry were 50/50  or less from the beginning.  I suggest they were brought onboard in place of a couple of recruits who you would know from day one would never be good enough to start and might not even enter a game.  We are not the big BB school that recruits would die to come to nor is PEL the bigtime coach that players would die to play for.  I still believe that Moore and Clark were good enough to contribute to this team maybe this coming year.  I think PEL and both those Guys didn't click.  Anyway, yes we lost 4 team members but all 4 could play the game in my opinion.  Two were stupid and two werent' liked by the coach.  I believe the coach believes he replaced Moore and Clark with better players and I further believe he feels though he didn't find a better replacement for Henry, if you consider the possibility of Henry blowing up at any time, he had to go.  McDonald wasn't around long enough to figure out.  This group if they play just to potential, we will be fine.  We shoud be better at every position this year.  And we should have decent second teamers and relief Guys.  I don't see Welsh leaving nor should he.  All Welsh needs is enough good players behind him so that when he plays absolutely stupid, he's jerked immediately and allowed to watch for awhile.  Riding the pine can have a huge "ACT RIGHT" effect on folks.  Same with Fortson.  Sitting for screwing up is how you adjust an attitude concerning oncourt problems.  I hope Clarke can learn to move and make himself open more this season.  Part of his problem kis standing there expecting the pass when he is covered.  I'll admit I've seen Welsh refuse him the ball time after time when he was open.  Also Fortson doing it too.  Remember, the pine is the best option for ignorant BB playing. 

[Baconator]

Pel signed 8 players in the 2008 class - Courtney Fortson, Rotnei Clarke, Andre Clark, Brandon Moore, Jason Henry, Montrell McDonald, Daniel Payne, and Terrance Joyner.

Joyner and Payne never made it to campus. McDonald left early in the season. Moore, Clark, and now Henry left after the season. Only Clarke and Fortson remain. That's 2 of 8 guys from the class that was supposed to replace all the seniors Heath left. That's terrible..

Whoever is responsible for evaluating players should be fired immediately. The fact that Pel is content with his staff and refuses to make changes is a head scratcher. At least he has one of the top 5 young assistants in the country on his side.

[athunt]

This is a product of the Stan Heath locker room. It's changing, but it doesn't happen overnight.

I think it is time to hang up this excuse.  Jason Henry has absolutely no connection to Stan Heath.  Pel made the final decision to take him.  You cant blame him on Heath.

[RedSatinHog]

Maybe Pel just can't relate well enough to certain kids.  Part of being a great coach is being able to understand the kid and motivate him to being the best he can.  He lost the most talented guy on this team.  Maybe it was all Henry, none of us know, but if you didn't see the ability Henry had stop posting about basketball.

William Mills had the same set of sick skills and then some, but that didn't stop Nolan from kicking him off the team, either.

Same thing when he sent Byron Irvin packing to Missouri.

The former was a perennial problem child.  The latter was a model athlete who excelled in a Tigers uniform.

Sometimes it's all about fit, while sometimes it's about a player's reckless attitude.

[HawgAdvocate]

I think it is time to hang up this excuse.  Jason Henry has absolutely no connection to Stan Heath.  Pel made the final decision to take him.  You cant blame him on Heath.

No connection? You need to look before you leap. What other West Memphis standout spent multiple seasons in Fayetteville? What former Hog was very tight with Henry? Who was Henry staying with when he came down to the Hill, before he was a Hog? You think Henry would ever have been here without him? Henry has been around.

Beyond the obvious, there's still a current player on the team who showed Fort and Henry what they (thought they) could get away with. I'm not allowed to get into details, cause it will get deleted as soon as I put it down.

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

No connection? You need to look before you leap. What other West Memphis standout spent multiple seasons in Fayetteville? What former Hog was very tight with Henry? Who was Henry staying with when he came down to the Hill, before he was a Hog? You think Henry would ever have been here without him? Henry has been around.

Beyond the obvious, there's still a current player on the team who showed Fort and Henry what they (thought they) could get away with. I'm not allowed to get into details, cause it will get deleted as soon as I put it down.

I may have heard the same thing as Advocate, and if it is, it's bad business.

[athunt]

No connection? You need to look before you leap. What other West Memphis standout spent multiple seasons in Fayetteville? What former Hog was very tight with Henry? Who was Henry staying with when he came down to the Hill, before he was a Hog? You think Henry would ever have been here without him? Henry has been around.

Beyond the obvious, there's still a current player on the team who showed Fort and Henry what they (thought they) could get away with. I'm not allowed to get into details, cause it will get deleted as soon as I put it down.

I dont think the player you are speaking of would be any different any other coach's locker room. The only difference would be that he wouldn't be in that other coach's locker room still.  I dont think our current situation is a case of just one bad apple spoiling the barrel. It is a case of a bad barrel.  If you honestly think that our program is in a better place than the way Pel found it then you simply just have a vendetta against Heath.  Also another player was there under Heath with this same player also, right? I dont hear much about Whim being a problem in the locker room. 

It's debatable whether or not Pel made the right choices to foster Henry while he was on the Hill. But Heath didnt sign Henry, Pel did.  It wasn't a case of Pel had to honor Henrys LOI such as Rakestraw or Sanchez. To blame the transgressions on his predecessor is a cop out and you know it.

[HoopS]

Hey, I wanted Henry signed.  I bet you all did.   I bet Pel would have gotten raked over the coals had we missed on him. 

And I guarantee you there is still a bad apple hanging around and if things were different, like if anybody from Heath's class would have graduated, maybe our APR would be such that he could do what he would probably like to do. 
And if he did get kicked off, 50 new threads would pop up about it.   Pel would be blamed for not forcing the kid to mature and make better decisions.   Some kids are trouble and advice is ignored and laughed at by them.  At some point, a kid has to mature.   

Pel certainly doesn't get a pass in all of this.  He either ran some off just couldn't get along with some, whatever, but he kept the coaching the way he wants it and that's fine.   It is mostly his roster and that's great because when this next season is done, it will be his product we'll judge.   Either the direction will be satisfactory or it won't.   I can't specifically put a number on it but I'll recognize it when I see it.   But I'll call a spade a spade too and he needs to produce. 

I think we improve quite a bit, I do.  But if we don't, I'll want accountability. 

I believe in giving a basketball coach time enough to get his roster in.  I usually say get his roster in and to at least their junior year.   3 years.  Our situation was different and we all know it.   You really shouldn't have to replace so many seniors at once like he had to.  Add to that the fact he's young and not a big name and you end up with risks.  Our risks failed miserably and certainly Pel has to shoulder that blame.   Let's hope he got it right this time because if he didn't.......

[HawgAdvocate]

If you honestly think that our program is in a better place than the way Pel found it then you simply just have a vendetta against Heath.  Also another player was there under Heath with this same player also, right? I dont hear much about Whim being a problem in the locker room.

Ok bub. You go right ahead and believe that. Go Hogs.

[RedSatinHog]

Again, let me ask a question to all of the folks on here who are blaming Pel for recruiting Henry in the first place:

If there was a talented but troubled athlete out there which had caught the UA coach's attention, and a legendary player like Scottie Thurman recommended him as being worthy of taking a chance on, would you give Henry the benefit of the doubt and sign him or not?

[WilsonHog]

Seems to me we're getting nowhere fast here. Please allow the simpleton in the Greek Chorus to comment:

(1) Those who believe in Pel, regardless of degree, are going to continue to at least through next season. To them it's all explainable - season record, conference record, player behavior, player departures, etc.

(2) Those who don't believe in Pel just got more ammunition with the departure of Henry.

This whole debate continues in a circle. The exact same words written in this thread could have been, and probably were, written in threads for weeks on end last spring. And the thing is, no one is being convinced otherwise. That isn't what messgage boards are for anymore, if ever. This is all about each person standing on their own little box and screaming, "No, mf'er, YOU"RE WRONG" until they're blue in the face. Minds have been made up. Lines have been drawn. Positions have been taken.

You see, away from the internet and message boards you can just be "a Razorback fan." Not on the boards. On the boards you have to choose up sides and draw weapons.

Carry on.

[PoormansRobbyHampton]

Seems to me we're getting nowhere fast here. Please allow the simpleton in the Greek Chorus to comment:

(1) Those who believe in Pel, regardless of degree, are going to continue to at least through next season. To them it's all explainable - season record, conference record, player behavior, player departures, etc.

(2) Those who don't believe in Pel just got more ammunition with the departure of Henry.

This whole debate continues in a circle. The exact same words written in this thread could have been, and probably were, written in threads for weeks on end last spring. And the thing is, no one is being convinced otherwise. That isn't what messgage boards are for anymore, if ever. This is all about each person standing on their own little box and screaming, "No, mf'er, YOU"RE WRONG" until they're blue in the face. Minds have been made up. Lines have been drawn. Positions have been taken.

You see, away from the internet and message boards you can just be "a Razorback fan." Not on the boards. On the boards you have to choose up sides and draw weapons.

Carry on.

This is the way it is. Last year's season won't be rectified until the next starts, but every day more news, whether it be good or bad, comes out, strengthens the case against Pelphrey.

Personally I thought Henry was an outstanding talent, and still think he is. I saw him a few times in high school and thought he had a lot of upside, but at some point you have to call a spade a spade and move on.

I have my issues with Pelphrey, but trying to turn Henry into a player, and eventually failing is not one of them.

[Flatfoot]

You can't polish a turd into silver or gold.  I want to win the right way.  With character and team play like Sutton and Nolan.  Don't take crap from any player Pel.  Just because they think they are a great athlete doesn't give them the right to put themself above the team.  Cut every cancer off the team and tell them to get the hell out. 

[snoblind]

Beyond the obvious, there's still a current player on the team who showed Fort and Henry what they (thought they) could get away with. I'm not allowed to get into details, cause it will get deleted as soon as I put it down.

I am reading rumors on other boards there is one more to go, possibly very soon.

[RedSatinHog]

You can't polish a turd into silver or gold.  I want to win the right way.  With character and team play like Sutton and Nolan.  Don't take crap from any player Pel.  Just because they think they are a great athlete doesn't give them the right to put themself above the team.  Cut every cancer off the team and tell them to get the hell out. 

+1

That's where the heck I am at.  This problem will never fix itself.

The most important part of remodeling a house is to get all the junk and useless riffraff out first.  Same thing applies here.