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Advice needed

Started by Pistol Pete, December 05, 2011, 09:04:13 pm

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Pistol Pete

I'd like to get some advice from you guys... here's a little background. Looking at my logbook, 2/1/12 will be 17 years since I last piloted an aircraft. I had 44.6 hours as a student pilot when I stopped flying. I live in Conway.

I want to fly again, and here's my plan.
1. I set aside $6K for my training.
2. Last week I got my Medical Certificate 3rd Class and Student Pilot Certificate.
3. I'm going to find a ground school and pass my written before I start flying.

Here are my questions.
1. Does anyone see a problem with my plan so far?
2. I would really like to purchase an inexpensive trainer/time-builder like a C-150, or something a little nicer like an IFR C-172 if I could find someone local looking to partner. I've read lots of stories where people who got their PPL wished they had put their money towards their own airplane. Does this idea have merit?

I appreciate any advice...

Flying Razorback

December 05, 2011, 09:25:02 pm #1 Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 10:07:56 pm by FlyingRzrbkAF
I think it's a perfect plan to start rebuilding your blocks from the bottom again.  You'll remember the basics, but I think that you're being very realistic with your starting point.

If you're ready to see it through fruition I think that it's not a bad idea to start considering any airplane.  I have never bought one but dream about owning one.  I know gotyacovered is learning in a self-owned aircraft and it seems to really be working for him.  Personally, I value IFR flying so much that I would rather have the option to be IFR than not.  And if you're this dedicated to restarting your training then you're probably going to get the itch to get your instrument ticket soon after your PPL.

Good luck!  Great to see that you've decided to rekindle a passion.  bville also set his mind to it and is a success story in this forum.
Satchel Paige said, "Don't look back, something might be gaining on you..."

 

gotyacovered

I think you are realistic with the $6k. But...

I looked at it several different ways, and in the end I bought 50% of a 182L. I could have got 1/3 of a 172 and I was talked out of it (by my dad). He discouraged me from the 172 b/c he knew my mission: to fly places, with my family/friends. The payload I needed didn't really fit a 172.

I had a lot of people that laughed at the idea of training in a 182, but I wouldn't change it for anything.

I was ready to do this when I was 30, but the right deal wasn't there. I turned 33 10/9, so for me the patience paid off. I got lucky.

If I could give you advice it would be this: figure out want your "mission" is and find the plane, the find a partner/flying club and go from there. I cannot imagine renting to get to where I am.

The biggest thing I did was schedule my CFI for an entire week. I didn't work, play with my kids, drink beer, ANYTHING. I was focused on flying, I burnt 250 gallons of AV gas and flew about 26 hours, I solo'd at 17 hrs. PM if you want and I'll give you my email address or phone number to discuss further. Or you can continue thru this forum, there is a lot of good dudes on here. One just sent me his oral exam guide and detailed what he was asked in it. Bville has been very helpful also.

You are what you tolerate.

bvillepig

Pistol Pete that sounds like a great plan. I like your idea on written. The one thing I would do different is get my written out of the way. I was ready for the practical and had not put much time in the written. It delayed the process of getting my ticket.

I used the Kings dvd s from Sporty and when I was making a pretty high score I found a weekend seminar that came to Memphis. On Sunday afternoon we went straight to the Olive Branch airport and took the written. That worked well for myself and two other buddies.

I was 53 and had wanted to be a pilot since I was about 4-5. In 2004 things worked out and I bit the bullet so to speak. I started with flight school and after about 20 hours decided to go a different route. I bit the bullet and bought a PA28 and trained with a local instructor. We lived in the plane together as I was also using it some for work at that time. I feel it really helped me flying and managing the ownership side.

Either way ownership or renting there are pluses and minuses.   Good luck to you and got ya.  You won't regret it.

gotyacovered

ill tag on to to bville.

as far as the written, my cousin advised me to take the written and practical close together, not sure if that is right or wrong (yet) but i followed his advice. i am going to take my written in a couple weeks and my checkride will be about a week after that. i already had it scheduled for 12/5 and 12/15 but it fell thru, not bc of lack of effort on my part.

as far as written software, if you take one piece of advice from me, it should be this, use the dauntless software to study with, it was highly recommended to me from aopa's forum and i love it. i was skeptical bc it was quite a bit cheaper than the other out there, but its awesome. if you diont do that, take a weekend class/test and knock it out, that'll run you about $400.

http://www.dauntless-soft.com/
You are what you tolerate.

Pistol Pete

Thank you guys, I appreciate the input.
I'll turn 50 in March, children are off to college with one doing her own thing at 21 and the other with a full ride to Hendrix.
I'm at a point now that I can afford a pretty decent airplane... my dream is a Cirrus SR-20, $125-$150K... I'd never own one without a partner, but it's fast (about 175 mph) for a 200 hp engine and I've always liked the parachute system.
However, trying to figure out which plane (size, speed, payload) is kind of circular argument...
I've been told over and over to get a time-builder (C-150), get my PPL and IFR as inexpensively as possible, then I'd have a better idea of what I wanted in the long term. Purchasing a plane to train in is risky, but it can be very financially rewarding, and convenient also.
The reason for the written first is to learn all the jargon before I get back in the plane. I've heard that it really helps a person to comprehend the things being taught by the CFI.
As far as IFR goes, I think it's a must from a safety standpoint.
The 182? I think that's an excellent choice. My buddy had a newer 182 that he sold and bought a newer A36 Bonanza... he wishes he had his 182 back. I don't know that I'll ever need more than 800 pounds of useful load (550 pounds cargo, 250 pounds fuel).

A couple more question...
1. Any suggestions on a financial institution that will loan on airplanes?
2. Any insurance company suggestions?

gotyacovered

Quote from: Pistol Pete on December 06, 2011, 10:41:47 am
Thank you guys, I appreciate the input.
I'll turn 50 in March, children are off to college with one doing her own thing at 21 and the other with a full ride to Hendrix.
I'm at a point now that I can afford a pretty decent airplane... my dream is a Cirrus SR-20, $125-$150K... I'd never own one without a partner, but it's fast (about 175 mph) for a 200 hp engine and I've always liked the parachute system.
However, trying to figure out which plane (size, speed, payload) is kind of circular argument...
I've been told over and over to get a time-builder (C-150), get my PPL and IFR as inexpensively as possible, then I'd have a better idea of what I wanted in the long term. Purchasing a plane to train in is risky, but it can be very financially rewarding, and convenient also.
The reason for the written first is to learn all the jargon before I get back in the plane. I've heard that it really helps a person to comprehend the things being taught by the CFI.
As far as IFR goes, I think it's a must from a safety standpoint.
The 182? I think that's an excellent choice. My buddy had a newer 182 that he sold and bought a newer A36 Bonanza... he wishes he had his 182 back. I don't know that I'll ever need more than 800 pounds of useful load (550 pounds cargo, 250 pounds fuel).

A couple more question...
1. Any suggestions on a financial institution that will loan on airplanes?
2. Any insurance company suggestions?

I worked it out with a local bank, AOPA has pretty good options as well.

Insurance? I handled my own, I'm an insurance agent (gotyacovered). I write a few others as well. I have my 182 insured for $60 or $65k, $1,000,000/$100,000, limits, $1000 ded for under $1000 per year. I can give you any advice..... OR write it for you when/if the time comes;D

Wish you were licensed and looking for a 206, know a helluva deal on one, I'm sure you've seen my 'anyone looking for a 206' thread. It's a steal.

As bad as the market is i would have a hard time buying a trainer unless i was prepared to hold onto it for a few years, and know that it couldn't keep me from buying my 'mission' plane. Just my .02
You are what you tolerate.

bvillepig

I used a local bank for the first one and Air Fleet Capital for the Saratoga.

Insurance
I have used several people but Sharon at Mid Continent in Hayti Mo has worked hard for me.  She has saved me a heck of a lot of money in the last few years.  They are Ag Cat dealers and Cessna dealers but also handle insurance..

After getting my IFR and wanting to step up from the PA28 I flew several demo aircraft. The Cirrus SR22 was one of them. I really wanted the SR22 but my wife wanted six seats. It  was a great problem to have because I could not lose.  I ended up with the Saratoga which is a really nice traveling machine. It is very comfortable and surprisingly fast for a Toga but I still would have preferred the Cirrus SR22 with the TKS system for my mission.

The SR20 is a great airplane. It is very efficient for its 155 knots and has great user friendly avionics.  It is a buyers market.

gotyacovered

Hey bvillepig (aka low wing guy)  ;D

Would you recommend to PP a Cherokee 180? More plane than a C152, not that much more money and still very economical, and more of a long term solution, should easier to sell down the road... Plus pretty easy to fly. I have only flown one, once... Just for the record.
You are what you tolerate.

bvillepig

Quote from: gotyacovered on December 06, 2011, 07:32:09 pm
Hey bvillepig (aka low wing guy)  ;D

Would you recommend to PP a Cherokee 180? More plane than a C152, not that much more money and still very economical, and more of a long term solution, should easier to sell down the road... Plus pretty easy to fly. I have only flown one, once... Just for the record.

Yes. I have fun with my Cessna Buddies.

But understand I do love 182,206,210, RG 182 etc etc. I will tell the whole Cessna story some other time but the short one is they didn't return my calls for a demo and then the finance department did not approve me for a C182.   That worked out well as it turned out and I became a low wing guy by default.




I started my training in a 172 which was a very nice plane and is very comparable in performance but with a little different feel than the PA28.

The 180 horses in PA28 will give you around 115 to 120 knots. It is very stable and feels a little heavier than the 172. It made  a great instrument airplane. I have never flown the 150 or 152 so I really could not compare.

Fuel burn was around 10 GPH and mine had the taper wing instead of the Hershey Bar as some called it. With the taper wing you picked up about 5-7 knots.

I think the tank held around 52 with 48 usable. It really was a joy to fly and train in.

Memory is fading bit I think I only had around ten to twenty hours when I bought the PA28. When I finished my instrument I had around 325 in it. I put it on the market and withen three weeks a lady from Scotland bought it. It was a very sad day as I watched the ferry pilot pick it up and fly it off. Can you imagine flying a PA28 to Scotland in October. On a whim I put the tail number in a google search and found a picture of it in Edinbourugh Scotland at an air show.     Search N586SE in google.

You guys take care.

fdx flyer

I like your plan for getting your license.  Not as sure about buying a trainer.  I was military and never dealt with rentals though.  I just think it might be hard to resell in this market.  That being said, it's a great time to buy an airplane, so why not get something that'll be useful when you've gotten your private?  Or wait til you've finished training, and then buy?

The story about your friend selling his A36 to go back to a 182 is pretty rare.   Most folks don't go back to a Cessna after flying a Beech.  I have a 1961 N35 (V-tail).  I love it!  The handling is incredible.  There's no slop in the controls, just a nice solid, responsive feel.   It's a very quiet, comfortable, well built airplane.  I had a Maule before the Bonanza.  It was a good, useful utility plane, but the fliqht qualities and overall comfort don't even come close. 

I have 260 hp and cruise at 155 kts lean of peak, burning 11.5 - 12 gph.  I can go faster if I want to burn more fuel.  Its faster than that SR-20 and costs about 1/2 as much.  Probably comparable speeds to the SR22 - not sure.   I bought mine for around $50k.  I now have about $70k in it.  You can have a nice, capable Bonanza for $70-90k (4 place, not 6 place).  Of course you can spend more and get the cream of the crop.

Anyhow, you can tell I have some Beechcraft bias.  Just thought I'd share my point of view.  They are incredible airplanes, and absolute traveling machines.  Take a flight in one before you make your big purchase.  If your ever in the Memphis area, come down to Hernando, MS (H75) and I'll give you a demo ride!

Pistol Pete

fdx flyer, funny you mention Beech... I've actually been looking at Musketeers and Sundowners. They seem to have fair payload capacity, of course the Sundowner has 2 doors, which I like, and many are equipped with auto-pilot.

I appreciate everyone's advice about getting something more useful for the future. If you guys feel that way, then there's more than a fair chance I'd feel that way.


gotyacovered

just to add my input and limited experience to fdx flyers comments, i wouldnt get to focused on picking out s specific airplane. being new in the ownership arena, there are the low wing guys, and the high wing guys. i have too little experience to pick one, i will however say that the cherokee 180 compared to my 182, was much easier to fly. i landed it in 12kt 90* crosswind and barely had to touch the rudder pedals. while 90% of ht time my feet are flat on the floor in my 182, this would not have been one of those times. it had the heresy bar wings you heard bvillepig reference. now... was it worth giving up the performance of my 182? NO, not for me.

i love my 182 and get a lot of bang for my buck, over the course of training, there are lots stuff you can do at low power settings, i got 11.2 gph. on my first two trips to drake i ran everything firewalled and got about 14. if i were to go out and get exactly what i want - mooney - they are a rocket, you can get more speed AND economy out of it any other airplane. this was my favorite plane my dad owned, over a 310 (also a rocket), and a 206.

i would figure out what you want (from a minimum performance standpoint) and look for a deal. also, it does not good to buy an old plane (that is out of date) to save money, then have to spend a bunch of upgrade money, let someone else spend the money upgrading. this is what i did b/c i eventually want a 6 place airplane and i know i will be able to get my money back, even with a few small-ish upgrades.
You are what you tolerate.

 

Pistol Pete

My friend with the A36 came to Conway yesterday to give me a ride. WOW!!! That's a nice plane. We sight see for about 30 minutes at 140 knots... the avionics are crazy nice. I'm ruined... lol. That plane has one too many zero's in the price...

gotyacovered

Quote from: Pistol Pete on December 19, 2011, 05:57:59 pm
My friend with the A36 came to Conway yesterday to give me a ride. WOW!!! That's a nice plane. We sight see for about 30 minutes at 140 knots... the avionics are crazy nice. I'm ruined... lol. That plane has one too many zero's in the price...

Yes sir, nice to fly from what I understand.
You are what you tolerate.

ADAM_713

Quote from: Pistol Pete on December 06, 2011, 10:41:47 am
Thank you guys, I appreciate the input.
I'll turn 50 in March, children are off to college with one doing her own thing at 21 and the other with a full ride to Hendrix.
I'm at a point now that I can afford a pretty decent airplane... my dream is a Cirrus SR-20, $125-$150K... I'd never own one without a partner, but it's fast (about 175 mph) for a 200 hp engine and I've always liked the parachute system.
However, trying to figure out which plane (size, speed, payload) is kind of circular argument...
I've been told over and over to get a time-builder (C-150), get my PPL and IFR as inexpensively as possible, then I'd have a better idea of what I wanted in the long term. Purchasing a plane to train in is risky, but it can be very financially rewarding, and convenient also.
The reason for the written first is to learn all the jargon before I get back in the plane. I've heard that it really helps a person to comprehend the things being taught by the CFI.
As far as IFR goes, I think it's a must from a safety standpoint.
The 182? I think that's an excellent choice. My buddy had a newer 182 that he sold and bought a newer A36 Bonanza... he wishes he had his 182 back. I don't know that I'll ever need more than 800 pounds of useful load (550 pounds cargo, 250 pounds fuel).

A couple more question...
1. Any suggestions on a financial institution that will loan on airplanes?
2. Any insurance company suggestions?

I grew up in Conway,  they used to have a very nice Cirrus at the field.  Might be able to convince him to take you up.  They guys at Conway field were always super nice.  On a side note I heard they are finally moving the airport to lollibottoms.  Should be a nice setup.
Quote from: kingofdequeen on May 19, 2010, 11:42:38 am
true story...

i paid a stripper $5 to slap me in the face right after i bit down on a lime after a tequila shot.  twas EPIC.

Pistol Pete

Quote from: IdontgiveAdam_713 on January 06, 2012, 08:30:23 am
I grew up in Conway,  they used to have a very nice Cirrus at the field.  Might be able to convince him to take you up.  They guys at Conway field were always super nice.  On a side note I heard they are finally moving the airport to lollibottoms.  Should be a nice setup.

I've seen that Cirrus in a hanger... Yes, the guys I've met at the airport seem to be really nice. And, they've already started dirt work on the new airport out by Toad Suck... it will be very nice to have a taxiway, the current airport has a lot of traffic on the weekends and it's hard to taxi the full length of the runway if the wind is out of the west.

gotyacovered

Quote from: Pistol Pete on January 06, 2012, 10:11:21 am
I've seen that Cirrus in a hanger... Yes, the guys I've met at the airport seem to be really nice. And, they've already started dirt work on the new airport out by Toad Suck... it will be very nice to have a taxiway, the current airport has a lot of traffic on the weekends and it's hard to taxi the full length of the runway if the wind is out of the west.

so are they opening a new airport or starting a new one?
You are what you tolerate.

Pistol Pete

Quote from: gotyacovered on January 06, 2012, 10:17:31 am
so are they opening a new airport or starting a new one?

The city of Conway is building a new airport. The old one is in the middle of the city, next to I-40. A jet went off the end of the runway a few years back and his a house with elderly people in it... several were killed including the pilot. I'm pretty sure they are closing the old airport.

If you happen to fly over... look south of the lock and dam, just west of Conway. You can see the dirt work going on about 3 miles south of the dam, and it appears the runway numbers will be approximately 4 and 22.

Conway would be a great location for a regional jet spoke... or maybe something like Seaport with their Pilatus turboprops, anything to get to Dallas or another major hub.

gotyacovered

Quote from: Pistol Pete on January 07, 2012, 01:38:45 pm
The city of Conway is building a new airport. The old one is in the middle of the city, next to I-40. A jet went off the end of the runway a few years back and his a house with elderly people in it... several were killed including the pilot. I'm pretty sure they are closing the old airport.

If you happen to fly over... look south of the lock and dam, just west of Conway. You can see the dirt work going on about 3 miles south of the dam, and it appears the runway numbers will be approximately 4 and 22.

Conway would be a great location for a regional jet spoke... or maybe something like Seaport with their Pilatus turboprops, anything to get to Dallas or another major hub.

I'll check it out, going to Clinton next Friday... Glad to hear they are putting in a new airport.

They are re-doing a lot at magnolia from what I understand, must be some federal/state money available right now!
You are what you tolerate.

ADAM_713

Quote from: Pistol Pete on January 07, 2012, 01:38:45 pm
The city of Conway is building a new airport. The old one is in the middle of the city, next to I-40. A jet went off the end of the runway a few years back and his a house with elderly people in it... several were killed including the pilot. I'm pretty sure they are closing the old airport.

If you happen to fly over... look south of the lock and dam, just west of Conway. You can see the dirt work going on about 3 miles south of the dam, and it appears the runway numbers will be approximately 4 and 22.

Conway would be a great location for a regional jet spoke... or maybe something like Seaport with their Pilatus turboprops, anything to get to Dallas or another major hub.

I was living next to the field when that happened.  I had just got off work and was playing some ncaa football when I hear this jet come roaring by.  I thought to myself that it was weird to hear that, being that we heard them all the time landing and taking off, but that it sounded like neither. Next thing I know I hear a huge BAM! from it hitting the jetblast shield at the end of the field and running into the house.  It was a huge fire.  The Jetblast Shield was made of huge steel beams and they were bent completely over.  It was crazy.  If I remember correctly the passenger tried to pull the pilot out, but the fire got too hot and he burned. 
Quote from: kingofdequeen on May 19, 2010, 11:42:38 am
true story...

i paid a stripper $5 to slap me in the face right after i bit down on a lime after a tequila shot.  twas EPIC.

ADAM_713

January 09, 2012, 02:17:13 pm #21 Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 04:10:11 pm by gotyacovered
Quote from: Pistol Pete on January 06, 2012, 10:11:21 am
I've seen that Cirrus in a hanger... Yes, the guys I've met at the airport seem to be really nice. And, they've already started dirt work on the new airport out by Toad Suck... it will be very nice to have a taxiway, the current airport has a lot of traffic on the weekends and it's hard to taxi the full length of the runway if the wind is out of the west.

Ha over the years I have seen numerous planes having to get pulled out of the mud from trying to turn around in the dirt on the side of the runway while taxing.  Saw a bonanza completely buried one year.
Quote from: kingofdequeen on May 19, 2010, 11:42:38 am
true story...

i paid a stripper $5 to slap me in the face right after i bit down on a lime after a tequila shot.  twas EPIC.