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Coaching Searches Aren’t Science

Started by Razorfox, October 29, 2017, 03:29:03 pm

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hogsanity

Quote from: Razorfox on October 30, 2017, 11:56:18 am
So are you a recruiting rankings are gospel person or do you lean toward having them re-ranked after they graduate? 

Both, You have to get players that are highly ranked coming out of HS, because those are the type of athletes you have to have. Sure some will not pan out, but they also lead to getting more highly rated players in the future. I will take my chances signing a top 10 class every year and having a few busts, than trying to win signing the 25th class and "coaching them up".

But i have long thought a true test of a class is what they do in their 3rd and 4th seasons, as a mix of jrs, srs and rs sophs.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

 

hogsanity

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on October 30, 2017, 12:50:33 pm
How are we a dumpster fire?



I thought going into the old misses game we were more of a train wreck than dumpster fire.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

HOGINTENNESSEE


Lady Razorback

Quote from: hogsanity on October 30, 2017, 12:32:32 pm
Which is why I said see what a guy does once he gets all his own players and is not riding the recruiting of another coach. Ford went 8-5 his 3rd season then regressed to 4-7 and 4-7. It was time for him to go, BUT HDN did benefit from the work Ford did in recruiting some very good talent.
I'm agreeing with you on that. I don't feel like that works any more for CBB just like Danny Ford.

hogsanity

Quote from: Lady Razorback on October 30, 2017, 12:56:15 pm
I'm agreeing with you on that. I don't feel like that works any more for CBB just like Danny Ford.

Agreed. I said a couple weeks ago that, for whatever reason, BB appears like he is not going to get it done in the sec.

I keep reading " we need the right coach " I think it takes the right coach AT THE RIGHT TIME. Would HDN have won his 1st 8 had he come in 1996 instead of 1998? Not likely. Would BP have done what he did had he shown up in 2012 instead of 2008? How much better would BB have done had he shown up in 2006 instead of 2013?
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

razorbackfaninar

Quote from: hogsanity on October 30, 2017, 11:49:49 am
They want anyone that they think is going to throw 40+ times a game and run "tempo".

ANY OFFENSE WILL WORK IF YOU HAVE THE PLAYERS.  But not just any offense will excite the fans. Many people think Bama runs a boring offense, because they do. Boring, but highly effective.

A:  I don't think that it is true that any offense will work as long as you have the players, and B: We don't and aren't going to "HAVE THE PLAYERS" at least not compared to most of our in-conference opponents.  I don't care if we pass it 40 times a game or 7 like Georgia just did.  I want the Razorbacks to play competitive, sound football.  I want to win more than we lose and be a respectable program. So far what Bielema is trying hasn't worked.  He's not going to magically get a bunch of better players this off-season.  He's going to have to compete in the SEC west with the same caliber players that he is currently getting his teeth kicked in with. Doing what he has always done has led him to the very edge of being fired.  Unless he makes some drastic changes he is no longer going to be here.         

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: hogsanity on October 30, 2017, 12:52:31 pm
I thought going into the old misses game we were more of a train wreck than dumpster fire.

Well the season could be considered either or both.  There is a difference though in a bad season and having a train wreck dumpster fire situation waiting for a new coach to fix.  Discipline problems off the field, an exodus of players about to happen, a large amount of players in danger of being academically ineligible, NCAA investigation, etc. on top of losing.  Those are dumpster fire situations.  If all our next coach needs to do is upgrade talent and hope they don't lose their starting qb, best RB, best olineman and best wr in too many seasons, then our next coach won't be getting a dumpster fire.  Just a program build and hopefully one that is already started.  I'm trying to find out why some think this will be a dumpster fire for the next coach.  Based on rumors? 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

rhames

"I'm too drunk to taste this chicken"

"Can we get some waffles after we get some ass?" - Aunt Tiffany Freeman

Quote from: Hamdsome 1 on September 05, 2023, 06:43:26 pmSTHU. I get in more steps per day, at work, than you could possibly fathom.
The only down time my legs see is when seated in 1st Class.

Lady Razorback

Quote from: hogsanity on October 30, 2017, 01:10:04 pm
Agreed. I said a couple weeks ago that, for whatever reason, BB appears like he is not going to get it done in the sec.

I keep reading " we need the right coach " I think it takes the right coach AT THE RIGHT TIME. Would HDN have won his 1st 8 had he come in 1996 instead of 1998? Not likely. Would BP have done what he did had he shown up in 2012 instead of 2008? How much better would BB have done had he shown up in 2006 instead of 2013?

I agree with your analysis.

HawgTide

Quote from: Wildhog on October 30, 2017, 11:42:14 am
Turns out Wisconsin is just a much better situation than Arkansas.  We need someone that has proven the ability to take over a dumpster fire and win.


Turns out Barry Alvarez was the brains behind Bielema's success at Wisconsin. There's a reason they met multiple times every week during the season.

Razorfox

Quote from: HawgTide on October 30, 2017, 02:34:50 pm

Turns out Barry Alvarez was the brains behind Bielema's success at Wisconsin. There's a reason they met multiple times every week during the season.

I find that very hard to believe.  First, that means that Alvarez was advocating a more run heavy and "antiquated" offensive scheme that even Bielema wanted.  And we all know according to the geniuses on this site that those old schemes don't work.  Also, that would mean that Alvarez was literally the best coach/AD in the history of the world to not only be able to help coach a top 10 football team, but also run the rest of an athletic department at the same time. 

razorbackfaninar

Quote from: HawgTide on October 30, 2017, 02:34:50 pm

Turns out Barry Alvarez was the brains behind Bielema's success at Wisconsin. There's a reason they met multiple times every week during the season.

If you want to know why every coach that coaches at Wisconsin looks like a genius and then flops when he leaves take a look at their schedule.  It's not that Alvarez is some kind of genius.  They spend more money than the majority of the teams they play, and although they recruit somewhere in the 30's nationally they out recruit most of the teams they play. It isn't a great mystery.

 

hogsanity

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on October 30, 2017, 02:05:23 pm
Well the season could be considered either or both.  There is a difference though in a bad season and having a train wreck dumpster fire situation waiting for a new coach to fix.  Discipline problems off the field, an exodus of players about to happen, a large amount of players in danger of being academically ineligible, NCAA investigation, etc. on top of losing.  Those are dumpster fire situations.  If all our next coach needs to do is upgrade talent and hope they don't lose their starting qb, best RB, best olineman and best wr in too many seasons, then our next coach won't be getting a dumpster fire.  Just a program build and hopefully one that is already started.  I'm trying to find out why some think this will be a dumpster fire for the next coach.  Based on rumors? 

I do not think that is the case. There is talent on this team, just not nearly enough of it, especially on the Ol or in the defensive back 7. They have too many plays where they either get physically beaten or they get themselves out of position. They lose last Sat if old misses does not literally lay the ball at the feet of Richardson for the scoop and score.

This season, to me, has been a trainwreck, and that happens from time time. Things start snowballing at it just never stops.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

HawgTide

Quote from: Razorfox on October 30, 2017, 02:56:44 pm
I find that very hard to believe.  First, that means that Alvarez was advocating a more run heavy and "antiquated" offensive scheme that even Bielema wanted.  And we all know according to the geniuses on this site that those old schemes don't work.  Also, that would mean that Alvarez was literally the best coach/AD in the history of the world to not only be able to help coach a top 10 football team, but also run the rest of an athletic department at the same time. 

Alvarez was the sounding board and wise old sage that CBB needed on how to run the program - responding to success and failures, hiring coaches, recruiting issues etc...

CBB wanted out from under his shadow

IronHog

Quote from: hogsanity on October 30, 2017, 11:34:52 am
BB is proof of this, maybe the best example in the country right now. Everything looked like he was a great hire. 3 BIG10 titles, well liked by recruits and among his peers and media. But no one knows how a coach from school A will translate to school B. Recruiting area is different, competition is different, social and economics are different. School perception is different.



Some of us knew it was a long shot


I know I'd do better hiring than Long because I know Arkansas FAR better than a transplant.....
Iron sharpens iron, So one man sharpens another.

hogsanity

Quote from: IronHog on October 30, 2017, 03:10:40 pm


Some of us knew it was a long shot


I know I'd do better hiring than Long because I know Arkansas FAR better than a transplant.....

Sadly for you all the confederate generals are long dead.

Seriously, what does that even mean? 2 of the 3 best coaches in Hog history as well as the best AD we ever had were transplants.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

razorbackfaninar

Quote from: IronHog on October 30, 2017, 03:10:40 pm


Some of us knew it was a long shot


I know I'd do better hiring than Long because I know Arkansas FAR better than a transplant.....

Meaning what?  What is there to know about Arkansas that a transplant would not know that would lead you to hire a specific coach, and which coach do you think is a perfect fit from the viewpoint of a native Arkansan?

Razorfox

Quote from: HawgTide on October 30, 2017, 03:07:26 pm
Alvarez was the sounding board and wise old sage that CBB needed on how to run the program - responding to success and failures, hiring coaches, recruiting issues etc...

CBB wanted out from under his shadow

Sorry, I can't keep up with all the reasons on this board. Everyone is so smart and just has it figured out, you see.

The reason we are struggling can't be the offense if Alvarez is the reason CBB was good at Wisconsin. And if it wasn't the offense, then everyone on here that builds their wish list for the next coach on that, is perhaps on the wrong track.

GuvHog

Quote from: hogsanity on October 30, 2017, 03:14:23 pm

Seriously, what does that even mean? 2 of the 3 best coaches in Hog history as well as the best AD we ever had were transplants.

Good point but compared to those 3, Long and Bielema are first class DUDS.
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

HawgTide

Quote from: Razorfox on October 30, 2017, 03:23:31 pm
Sorry, I can't keep up with all the reasons on this board. Everyone is so smart and just has it figured out, you see.

The reason we are struggling can't be the offense if Alvarez is the reason CBB was good at Wisconsin. And if it wasn't the offense, then everyone on here that builds their wish list for the next coach on that, is perhaps on the wrong track.


We aren't running the Whisky offense or playing their easier schedule. CBB has made lots of mistakes including hiring the wrong assistant coaches and failing to realize the importance of speed is in the SEC that Barry or another strong AD like Frank could have helped him with. You seem to be pushing an agenda instead of looking at the reasons he failed here.

HawgTide


hogsanity

Quote from: razorbackfaninar on October 30, 2017, 03:16:28 pm
Meaning what?  What is there to know about Arkansas that a transplant would not know that would lead you to hire a specific coach, and which coach do you think is a perfect fit from the viewpoint of a native Arkansan?

Not surprisingly we get crickets on that question.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hawgon

Quote from: Wildhog on October 30, 2017, 11:45:14 am
I'm to the point that if you're a successful head coach at a strong P5 program, and you want to make the move to Arkansas, then what the hell is wrong with you?  There must be something we're missing, ha.

The days of coaches moving from any Power 5 program to any other are just about over.  They are all swimming in TV money and if you can win ten games at any P 5 program you are in the playoff hunt.  Once there, you can win the NC.  Why jump to a Florida where the expectations and the fans are insane when the money is almost as good at an Iowas State and if you can win, your path to the NC is the same?  Why do it?

 

Wildhog

Quote from: hawgon on October 30, 2017, 04:10:20 pm
The days of coaches moving from any Power 5 program to any other are just about over.  They are all swimming in TV money and if you can win ten games at any P 5 program you are in the playoff hunt.  Once there, you can win the NC.  Why jump to a Florida where the expectations and the fans are insane when the money is almost as good at an Iowas State and if you can win, your path to the NC is the same?  Why do it?

I agree for the most part, but I don't think it applies to every P5 program. 

Also, unless they've recently changed it, the Big 12 doesn't share revenue equally like the SEC does.  Someone correct me if that's changed.

I think for mid-tier programs and above, though, you're probably spot on.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

hawgon

Quote from: Wildhog on October 30, 2017, 04:16:00 pm
I agree for the most part, but I don't think it applies to every P5 program. 

Also, unless they've recently changed it, the Big 12 doesn't share revenue equally like the SEC does.  Someone correct me if that's changed.

I think for mid-tier programs and above, though, you're probably spot on.

They don't, but most schools still get enough to pay a coach four to five million. 

Wildhog

Quote from: hawgon on October 30, 2017, 04:19:57 pm
They don't, but most schools still get enough to pay a coach four to five million. 

Right, but you also have to pay for assistants, facilities, recruiting, etc... 

No elite coach is going to stay at Iowa State/Kansas/etc forever.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

woodrow hog call

I  think the SEC is still a draw to the most ambitious/egotistical coaches out there, unless they are in the top two or three programs of some of the other conferences, they still have to wonder if they could cut it in the best conference there is.

The SEC needs to bounce back in hurry for this to remain true of course, and the new hires that each school makes, will have a great deal to do with that.
"I hate rude behavior in a man, I won't tolerate it"

hawgon

Quote from: Wildhog on October 30, 2017, 04:22:01 pm
Right, but you also have to pay for assistants, facilities, recruiting, etc... 

No elite coach is going to stay at Iowa State/Kansas/etc forever.

Unless he can win the conference there.  That is the goal, correct?  If you can win the conference, you can get in the playoffs.


Wildhog

Quote from: hawgon on October 30, 2017, 04:25:34 pm
Unless he can win the conference there.  That is the goal, correct?  If you can win the conference, you can get in the playoffs.



Unless he gets an offer to a program with an easier path to a conference championship.

And clearly I'm not talking about Arkansas.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

Wildhog

Quote from: woodrow hog call on October 30, 2017, 04:25:28 pm
I  think the SEC is still a draw to the most ambitious/egotistical coaches out there, unless they are in the top two or three programs of some of the other conferences, they still have to wonder if they could cut it in the best conference there is.

The SEC needs to bounce back in hurry for this to remain true of course, and the new hires that each school makes, will have a great deal to do with that.

There is somewhat of an ego element to it, for sure.
Arkansas Razorbacks Football National Championships:
1909/1964/1965/1977

razorbackfaninar

Quote from: hogsanity on October 30, 2017, 04:02:11 pm
Not surprisingly we get crickets on that question.

Yeah I've got pictures of me as a baby wrapped in a Razorback blanket. I've lived here all my life, and been a Razorback fan pretty much since I could talk.  I don't think I could pick the perfect coach for Arkansas.  It may not be a science but you damn sure better hope you get lucky

Razorfox

Quote from: HawgTide on October 30, 2017, 03:50:37 pm

We aren't running the Whisky offense or playing their easier schedule. CBB has made lots of mistakes including hiring the wrong assistant coaches and failing to realize the importance of speed is in the SEC that Barry or another strong AD like Frank could have helped him with. You seem to be pushing an agenda instead of looking at the reasons he failed here.

I have an agenda against arrogant know-it-all's that actually don't.

I also doubt that someone whose life is devoted to football doesn't see that speed is important. We aren't fast enough, but it's not because he doesn't know it.

WilsonHog

There are no sure things in coaching searches, because no two schools are the same.

Nick Saban is the best example I can think of to illustrate this. He will eventually retire as perhaps the greatest coach in CFB history. Would that have been the case had he stayed at Michigan St., or maybe even LSU?

Charlie Strong was an outstanding coach at Louisville, and has enjoyed a very good season at South Florida, but he was fired at Texas.

Rich Rodriguez was great at West Virginia, horrible at Michigan, decent at Arizona. Same coach; three different results.

It's a crapshoot. Make the best decision possible and hope for the best. Chances are you're going to have to replace him in five years anyway.

Dark Helmet Hog

Success at one place most definitely does not guarantee success at another. I think as salaries continue to increase across the board this is one reason successful coaches may start to stay put rather than jump to so called destination schools with a lot more headache.

snoblind

Quote from: Wildhog on October 30, 2017, 11:42:14 am
Turns out Wisconsin is just a much better situation than Arkansas.  We need someone that has proven the ability to take over a dumpster fire and win.

Better situation for BB.  Different situation for others.  Irony.  Turns out Alvarez was/is actually doing what Frank was accused of/did to a lesser extent.

I think there is a coach out there who can come to Arkansas and with the right staff can pull off a 98 like Nutt.  Maybe it is a dice roll whomever makes the choice, but I have zero confidence that Long can find that coach. 

Oklahawg

Razorfox, good thread.

There are plenty good coaches out there. Finding one that fits well with UA is a challenge. The "fit" is a moving target based on what other schools are doing to be better than UA + the community of coaches and talent/recruits that are available.

There is a point when a coach jumps to the SEC too early, flames out, and is done. Or, they make the wrong move (Wilsonhog's points about Rich Rod make perfect sense right now). I think there is a point where a coach has peaked and a move only hastens their fade as a great coach. So, we might attract the "right" coach but if our opening and their career trajectory don't align properly, oops.

There is a real risk in being a barely 30-year old Lincoln Riley or Kliff Kingsbury getting a HC position early in their career. Conversely, you could be David Cutcliffe or Jim Grobe who (to my eye) seem to have gotten their chances later in life and lost out on that "next rung" position because of age/energy.
I am a Hog fan. I was long before my name was etched, twice, on the sidewalks on the Hill. I will be long after Sam Pittman and Eric Mussleman are coaches, and Hunter Yuracheck is AD. I am a Hog fan when we win, when we lose and when we don't play. I love hearing the UA band play the National Anthem on game day, but I sing along to the Alma Mater. I am a Hog fan.<br /><br />A liberal education is at the heart of a civil society, and at the heart of a liberal education is the act of teaching. - Bart Giamatti <br /><br />"It is a puzzling thing. The truth knocks on the door and you say, 'Go away, I'm looking for the truth,' and so it goes away. Puzzling." ― Robert M. Pirsig<br /><br />Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too.  – Yogi Berra

texas tush hog

Quote from: HawgTide on October 30, 2017, 03:07:26 pm
Alvarez was the sounding board and wise old sage that CBB needed on how to run the program - responding to success and failures, hiring coaches, recruiting issues etc...

CBB wanted out from under his shadow



That worked out real well for him didn't it?

longpig

Quote from: DeltaBoy on October 30, 2017, 11:21:59 am
Sometimes I believe it more Luck , Many don't know we were bringing the Bear to the Hill right before Japan bombed Pearl Harbor.

This alone justifies the test drops of fat man and little boy.
Don't be scared, be smart.

Hog Fan...DOH!

I wonder what the conversation was like for Alvarez or Beamer their first few years on the job?  Couldn't have been positive.  Different era, I know.   What gave those particular admins hope they had hired the right guy? 

And this conversation applies to any coach, not just Bielema. 

If we're talking about Arkansas... Nutt's 6th year he had a fantastic team in 2003 that underachieved... went 0 fer October.  He should have won 10 games that year. It was mostly exciting, but drama-filled, from that point on.  He should have taken that plane to Nebraska. 

Danny Ford... we'll always wonder what could have been if he'd been given one more year.  His '97 team got better and better.  Fired too soon or just in time?

ThisTeetsTaken

Quote from: WilsonHog on October 30, 2017, 06:35:57 pm
There are no sure things in coaching searches, because no two schools are the same.

Nick Saban is the best example I can think of to illustrate this. He will eventually retire as perhaps the greatest coach in CFB history. Would that have been the case had he stayed at Michigan St., or maybe even LSU?

Charlie Strong was an outstanding coach at Louisville, and has enjoyed a very good season at South Florida, but he was fired at Texas.

Rich Rodriguez was great at West Virginia, horrible at Michigan, decent at Arizona. Same coach; three different results.

It's a crapshoot. Make the best decision possible and hope for the best. Chances are you're going to have to replace him in five years anyway.
The difference in success for each man in different regions may have to do with recruiting.   Some may have more ties or more in common with folks in certain areas more so than other areas.  Or maybe his formula for winning (especially on offense) suits players from certain areas because they run the same type offense.   Notice how Texas high school football runs the spread now and about every team in the Big 12 runs the spread?   We may have to switch to a spread offense to recruit Texas like we want to. 
***"He must increase, but I must decrease"***

Corkscrew Johnson

It's also amazing how quickly we have become a mid-tier program in the eyes of our own fans.   This is a team that had a shot at playing for the NC in 2010 (foiled by $cam and some horrific refereeing in Auburn) and again in 2011 (ranked #3 in the final game of the season before folding in the 2nd half at #1 LSU).  Chalking it up to Petrino?    What about in 2006 when Reggie Fish fumbled away the SEC championship game?  Or 1998 with the Stoernover?   And those were in the BCS era, who knows how the chips would have fallen for those teams in the playoff system.  That is 2 legitimate NC shots in the past 7 years, 3 in the past 11, 4 in the past 19.   And all that with the horrific luck of a motorcycle accident, houston the circus monkey, and this misfire on Bielema.   And with our supposed recruiting handicap.  And our waaa waaa waaa super tough schedule. 

We just need "someone" to show some leadership, leverage our surprisingly amazing network of a coaching tree, and land a coach with a brain and some desire.

hogsanity

Quote from: IronHog on October 30, 2017, 03:10:40 pm


Some of us knew it was a long shot


I know I'd do better hiring than Long because I know Arkansas FAR better than a transplant.....

You going to bother to answer the questions about what do you know about Arkansas that a transplant would not know, as it pertains to winning football games.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: Corkscrew Johnson on October 31, 2017, 09:00:48 am
It's also amazing how quickly we have become a mid-tier program in the eyes of our own fans.   This is a team that had a shot at playing for the NC in 2010 (foiled by $cam and some horrific refereeing in Auburn) and again in 2011 (ranked #3 in the final game of the season before folding in the 2nd half at #1 LSU).  Chalking it up to Petrino?    What about in 2006 when Reggie Fish fumbled away the SEC championship game?  Or 1998 with the Stoernover?   And those were in the BCS era, who knows how the chips would have fallen for those teams in the playoff system.  That is 2 legitimate NC shots in the past 7 years, 3 in the past 11, 4 in the past 19.   And all that with the horrific luck of a motorcycle accident, houston the circus monkey, and this misfire on Bielema.   And with our supposed recruiting handicap.  And our waaa waaa waaa super tough schedule. 

We just need "someone" to show some leadership, leverage our surprisingly amazing network of a coaching tree, and land a coach with a brain and some desire.

+1000

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on October 31, 2017, 09:04:46 am
You going to bother to answer the questions about what do you know about Arkansas that a transplant would not know, as it pertains to winning football games.

That's easy!

Winning is important.

ThisTeetsTaken

I'll throw this out there also.  Kevin Sumlin might be a better fit for Arkansas than he is for aTm.   I bet he would have us in a bowl every year and it would be fun to watch.
***"He must increase, but I must decrease"***

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: hogsanity on October 30, 2017, 04:02:11 pm
Not surprisingly we get crickets on that question.

Not true at all, I've been telling ya'll what we need for five years and many many in this board and has been telling you what we need.   The fact that you still don't know is more telling about you than anyone else.

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: Corkscrew Johnson on October 31, 2017, 09:00:48 am
It's also amazing how quickly we have become a mid-tier program in the eyes of our own fans.   This is a team that had a shot at playing for the NC in 2010 (foiled by $cam and some horrific refereeing in Auburn) and again in 2011 (ranked #3 in the final game of the season before folding in the 2nd half at #1 LSU).  Chalking it up to Petrino?    What about in 2006 when Reggie Fish fumbled away the SEC championship game?  Or 1998 with the Stoernover?   And those were in the BCS era, who knows how the chips would have fallen for those teams in the playoff system.  That is 2 legitimate NC shots in the past 7 years, 3 in the past 11, 4 in the past 19.   And all that with the horrific luck of a motorcycle accident, houston the circus monkey, and this misfire on Bielema.   And with our supposed recruiting handicap.  And our waaa waaa waaa super tough schedule. 

We just need "someone" to show some leadership, leverage our surprisingly amazing network of a coaching tree, and land a coach with a brain and some desire.

We are a mid tier program.  One or two seasons every now and then doesn't change it.  The good thing about our program is it is capable of having those seasons and competing for a championship in those seasons.  1998, 2006, 2010 are the exceptions.  It's good to be able to have those. 
Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys. 

Corkscrew Johnson

Quote from: Atlhogfan1 on October 31, 2017, 09:28:54 am
We are a mid tier program.  One or two seasons every now and then doesn't change it.  The good thing about our program is it is capable of having those seasons and competing for a championship in those seasons.  1998, 2006, 2010 are the exceptions.  It's good to be able to have those. 

If you look at our 10 year and 15 year average, it's about 25%.  I'm not sure I would call that an exception, I would call that about once every 4 years.  And if your categories are midtier and elite, then I would agree with you.  But the reality is that there are a few levels in between there.  We are historically and objectively a top 20 program.  Hard to categorize that mathematically as midtier.   Man oh man, I think our problem is less about our place in the natural order, and more about the self-pity of our own fans. 

Atlhogfan1

Quote from: Corkscrew Johnson on October 31, 2017, 09:48:30 am
If you look at our 10 year and 15 year average, it's about 25%.  I'm not sure I would call that an exception, I would call that about once every 4 years.  And if your categories are midtier and elite, then I would agree with you.  But the reality is that there are a few levels in between there.  We are historically and objectively a top 20 program.  Hard to categorize that mathematically as midtier.   Man oh man, I think our problem is less about our place in the natural order, and more about the self-pity of our own fans.

It isn't self pity.  We haven't been a top 20 program in almost 30 years.  We've had a few top 20 teams.  Last time we finished ranked more than 2 straight seasons was 1979.  From 75-82, we finished ranked 6 times and 85-89 4 out of 5 seasons.  Since:

98, 99, 2006, 2010, 11 - 5 times in what is about to be 28 seasons. 

Now rankings are based on W-L record and tougher schedules have meant losses.  We've had a few teams who probably would have won enough to finished ranked in seasons like 03 and 07 and maybe even 2014 in other conferences. 

I guess you do have to define mid tier. 

Quote from: MaconBacon on March 22, 2018, 10:30:04 amWe had a good run in the 90's and one NC and now the whole state still laments that we are a top seed program and have kids standing in line to come to good ole Arkansas.  We're just a flash in the pan boys.