Old Timers

[grayhawg]

Oh I gotcha. BB is responsible for JL's year too. Probably for the motorcycle, as well?

That makes perfect sense.

Read post #73 in this thread and tell me where I mentioned BB, I said it started 5 years ago I would say dropping from an 11 win season counting bowl game to a 4 win season was a pretty good start downhill.

[LZH]

Standing alone with a blank stare on your face while the team is in a colossal meltdown giving up huge leads is disheartening. 

Like a buddy of mine said, when he should be looking to make some in-game adjustments, he looks like he's thinking about what he's gonna put on the grill when he gets home.

[NuttinItUp]

Read post #73 in this thread and tell me where I mentioned BB, I said it started 5 years ago I would say dropping from an 11 win season counting bowl game to a 4 win season was a pretty good start downhill.

Read my posts. You responded to me; I didn't respond to you.

I agree JL was a big dropoff, and I also agree BB had a big rebuilding job ahead of him, hence the talk about old-timer patience.

[PonderinHog]

Read post #73 in this thread and tell me where I mentioned BB, I said it started 5 years ago I would say dropping from an 11 win season counting bowl game to a 4 win season was a pretty good start downhill.

More like a cliff.

[grayhawg]

Read my posts. You responded to me; I didn't respond to you.

And you didn't mention Bielema in that post just that old timers were usually more patient.

[NuttinItUp]

And you didn't mention Bielema in that post just that old timers were usually more patient.

That is correct, and that was my point. Thank you.

[ricepig]

Pretend you are advising a client considering an investment in rice. The producer's maximum potential is 15 bushels per acre.  You investigate and conclude the land is marginal and the farmer's expertise is corn.  You further conclude the average annual yield is 7-8 bushels per acre. 

How do you advise your client?

Get the hell out of farming with those yields!

[grayhawg]

That is correct, and that was my point. Thank you.

So why did you smart off about blaming BB for Jon L Smith's year. And BTW there is an end to being patent.

[bphi11ips]

Get the hell out of farming with those yields!

Ding ding ding!

[EastexHawg]

Oh I gotcha. BB is responsible for JL's year too. Probably for the motorcycle, as well?

That makes perfect sense.

I think the point is that the Arkansas football program can't afford to throw away an entire decade hoping if a coach stays long enough, goes through enough assistants, gets just the right schedule, maybe has the right opposing coach retire and maybe another program or two fall on hard times, and the stars align perfectly he might have a good enough season for the people who keep hanging onto him to be able to say, "See, we told you he could win!"

Patience has value.  So does time.  Wait long enough and that recruiting everyone says is so difficult will be almost impossible.

Most on-the-job training programs don't pay $4 million per year.

[NuttinItUp]

So why did you smart off about blaming BB for Jon L Smith's year. And BTW there is an end to being patent.

I was just responding to what you said, nothing else. My comments only had to do with the current coach. (as we have now established)

I also agree there is an end to being patient. I was just pointing out the difference in patience levels amongst generations, in my experience.

[Oklahawg]

I feel like I fell asleep and woke up in France.  White flags are all around.  "Give up.  Resistance is futile!"

Viva la resistance!

This made my day - thanks!

[ricepig]

I'm running out of patience with you two........

[grayhawg]

I'm running out of patience with you two........

I'm moving on

[26.2Hog]

Get the hell out of farming with those yields!

No kidding. He knows nothing about yields.  Maybe he should be working in DC writing the next farm bill.

Just messin with you bpphi11ips.

[NuttinItUp]

I think the point is that the Arkansas football program can't afford to throw away an entire decade hoping if a coach stays long enough, goes through enough assistants, gets just the right schedule, maybe has the right opposing coach retire and maybe another program or two fall on hard times, and the stars align perfectly he might have a good enough season for the people who keep hanging onto him to be able to say, "See, we told you he could win!"

Patience has value.  So does time.  Wait long enough and that recruiting everyone says is so difficult will be almost impossible.

Most on-the-job training programs don't pay $4 million per year.

I was just opining that given BBs level of success, he deserves a year or two more to see what he can do. Nothing more, nothing less. If he had had 4- or 5- win records the last couple years I would be on the fire-him train. Depending on what he does next year, I could flip either way.

[NuttinItUp]

I'm running out of patience with you two........

I concur...

[Hogs-n-Roses]

Been a hog all my life.First game attended was in Little Rock n '69-'70 at age 12. First game traveled to was in the Nam. Was '72 I believe. After that at 16-17 years old we started traveling to SWC games and the fun really began. Went to a few games per year for years. Saw lots of great players,Earl Campbell,Dickerson/James,The throw to Teddy Barnes just before halftime in the ROCK. Was at the game where James Rouse took it to Texas in Austin again(Forrest Gump). Dirt Winston,Dan Hampton.......

Bout 15-20 years ago started donating and having season tickets(5), But still enjoyed the travel best. Have been in all the SEC, SWC venues as well as many others like bowl games.May youngest daughter who is now 15 was at the Alabama game in the Nam in the rain in under a shirt that said"Future razorback below". She could sing the fight song completely at 4 years old.  She also has been to every SEC venue.

We also have stopped donating to this cause. We each have our opinions. Some on HV are polar opposite of mine. I get what you are going after and see your points. I just differ in my view of this method ever getting it done here.I believe you are a hog thru and thru, please never doubt whether I am or not because of how strongly I feel about our leaderships capability of winning and losing.

[BaggerHog]

I have not at this time completely given up but am getting more and more discouraged as each year goes by. My first Razorback game I attended was to watch the 25 Little Pigs in 1954. I am not even going to try to count the number of games I saw during the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's  but they were quite numerous. The Razorbacks has given me a great deal of enjoyment and some disappointment over the years but the last twenty five more disappointment than enjoyment.

Those last two games this year is just about all this old man can take but most likely come next fall I will start the new season with new hope (God willing).

[hoglady]

Been a Hog fan for 50+ years.
I've never given up on the Razorbacks.
There are a number of coaches that I've lost faith in (long before they were fired) through the years.

[wachhog]

I did not realize I would live through the golden era of razorback sports, and then watch the major programs fall off the map, and have an ad ok with it, while making piles of money

This. My sentiments exactly. I just don't like this sunshine-pumping AD and the undisciplined, nonchalant coach, both of whom make millions for accomplishing little. If they were more humble, more contrite, maybe I could accept more graciously our being an also ran. They seem arrogant, very out-of-touch.

[Snouty]

So why did you smart off about blaming BB for Jon L Smith's year. And BTW there is an end to being patent.

Generally patents are good for 20 years.

[hobhog]

This. My sentiments exactly. I just don't like this sunshine-pumping AD and the undisciplined, nonchalant coach, both of whom make millions for accomplishing little. If they were more humble, more contrite, maybe I could accept more graciously our being an also ran. They seem arrogant, very out-of-touch.

Show me one major conference AD or coach that is NOT making a million. Coach B  ranks low by Sec standards. Not sure about Long. And I dont see many laughs last few weeks coming out of Fayetteville.

But it is a frustrating time.

[Rzback]

I think all the dissension is going to bite Jeff Long in the butt. He's running athletics like a business instead of trying to create a National Championship, "If you build it, they will come." If you don't build it and just sell tickets, they will find somewhere else to spend their money.

[LZH]

Generally patents are good for 20 years.

Ha! Copyrights for music are good for 75 years. Maybe JL/BB don't just have patents on their rebuilding plan, looks like they've copyrighted their song, too.

[Biggus Piggus]

I feel like I fell asleep and woke up in France.  White flags are all around.  "Give up.  Resistance is futile!"

It's like having Barack Obama and Donald Trump as your president. You know change might have the potential to be good, but you know you're never going to find it with the present leadership. Eventually, you just have to go on and live your life.

[DLUXHOG]

I think all the dissension is going to bite Jeff Long in the butt. He's running athletics like a business instead of trying to create a National Championship, "If you build it, they will come." If you don't build it and just sell tickets, they will find somewhere else to spend their money.

In all likelihood JL is getting feedback/advice from Jerry Jones, who hasn't done too bad as he took a $140MM investment and turned it into a powerhouse worth $4BB+

[IMABIELEMA]

It's depressing when you think We will never win the SEC.  it's just not meant to be.

[DLUXHOG]

It's depressing when you think We will never win the SEC.  it's just not meant to be.

Hide and watch..... the Hogs will eventually win the SEC..... more than once..

[EastexHawg]

In all likelihood JL is getting feedback/advice from Jerry Jones, who hasn't done too bad as he took a $140MM investment and turned it into a powerhouse worth $4BB+

Powerhouse?  Jerry has won two playoff games in 20 years since he ran off the coach responsible for building his Super Bowl teams.

Come to think of it...you may be right about Long taking advice from Jerry.

[Hogwild]

Show me one major conference AD or coach that is NOT making a million.

I can show you 10 and that is just from the SEC.

[DLUXHOG]

Powerhouse?  Jerry has won two playoff games in 20 years since he ran off the coach responsible for building his Super Bowl teams.

Come to think of it...you may be right about Long taking advice from Jerry.

He also won 3 Super Bowls in 4 years..... could've won 4 in 4, but he wasn't as wise in his younger days as he is now......

[Hogwild]

In all likelihood JL is getting feedback/advice from Jerry Jones, who hasn't done too bad as he took a $140MM investment and turned it into a powerhouse worth $4BB+

I wish he wouldn't have taught him that its ok to fire a very successful head coach for off the field issues.



J/K- I'm not a fan of Long, but I do believe in that situation he made the right decision.

[DeltaBoy]

It like the old song are the good times over for good.

[Rzback]

Hide and watch..... the Hogs will eventually win the SEC..... more than once..

Where can I buy some of the kool-aid you are drinking?

[LZH]

Where can I buy some of the kool-aid you are drinking?

Gruden-mart.

[GolfnHog]

His Hog football program was clean PERIOD.

The product was very good on the field but the diminishing returns were on the horizon in recruiting, frayed relationships w/ HS coaches, keeping players eligible grade wise and continual off field issues w/ players. The outside of the house looked good but don't go inside the cock roaches were everywhere.

[98hogs]

Well I am in my 50's.

1.  My pet Peeve is when people "Accept" that what we are now is the norm...and excited when we slip into top 25 every 4 or 5 years for a week or so..  I remember when we were a top 10 team..even in the top 5.  It can be done here.. Those of us who have been alive a few years longer have seen it.

2.  I don't have many more "Oh Wait till next year" Years left.  I have been in a "Wait till next year funk" for a couple decades now.

The get a participation trophy Millennial generation  doesn't know what it's like to win !

[Rzback]

Sad our football team can't be constantly ranked like it was under Broyles and like our basketball team was under Richardson

[PigPusher]

Being mediocre does become a habit as time passes. Fact is we would have trouble competing even on the 2nd tier level.

[PearlHarbor]

But you know what tires me out the most?

Being surrounded by Hog fans who scream and yell "FIRE COACH!" when Arkansas once again finishes somewhere between solidly second-rate and truly awful.

For the last 50 years Arkansas has been, at its absolute best, an entertaining also-ran.

The highest the Hogs have gotten is just under true greatness.

Even when Arkansas finished one year ranked #5 in the country, they were still 3rd in the SEC West

Few seem willing to admit Hogs' truth. And scream and yell to "FIRE COACH!" because surely the next guy gets us back to 1964.

That really gets old after about 40 years of watching.

Have we tried?

[ShadowHawg]

I vividly recall the Ken Hatfield era.

All Hatfield did was win around 75% of his games and keep the Hogs ranked.

His last 2 years, Hogs won 2 conference titles with a pair of 10-win seasons.

Hog fans yelled and screamed how Hatfield could not win the Big Game, ran a boring offense, and many were perfectly happy to see Kenny get run off.

Today a coach who could equal Hatfield''s record at Arkansas would have streets named after him, and his statue on campus.

But during his time, plenty of Hog fans hated Hatfield because he could not get them back to 1964.

Hatfield's record was the result of a dying conference. Should have hired Jimmy Johnson instead. Johnson would have parlayed such easy schedules into shots at nc's.

[Arkiebarkie]

Win the Missouri and Va Tech games, and all is well.  Every little town in Arkansas would throw a parade to honor Bielema and Jeff.  We are that close.  Why we lost those two games hasn't been explained yet.  Will it happen again?  That hasn't been answered either.

Nailed it!  It gets fixed when we have a defense that can get off the field, that's the answer. If we win those last two it's a completely different mind set for our team & fans going into next year.

It can be fixed....

[COACHINTEXAS]

My family has been either big Red or Tush Hog contributors for the past 40 years. I'm 52 years old now and I remember the great success of the 60's, 70's and 80's. There was hardly a year that the Razorbacks wasn't pre-season top 10 and most years, we finished that way. It's very difficult for me to continue giving to a university that doesn't put winning first when it comes to their athletic program. I don't pay thousands to go watch them take a damn exam. I'm sick and tired of it and I think the UA has seen the last of my money. Personally, I think we made a huge mistake going to the SEC. I will write the reasons why later in a new topic.

[DLUXHOG]

My family has been either big Red or Tush Hog contributors for the past 40 years. I'm 52 years old now and I remember the great success of the 60's, 70's and 80's. There was hardly a year that the Razorbacks wasn't pre-season top 10 and most years, we finished that way. It's very difficult for me to continue giving to a university that doesn't put winning first when it comes to their athletic program. I don't pay thousands to go watch them take a damn exam. I'm sick and tired of it and I think the UA has seen the last of my money. Personally, I think we made a huge mistake going to the SEC. I will write the reasons why later in a new topic.

Close....but probably not most....

Hogs Final AP ranking - all time
1936 - 18th
1937 - 14th
1946 - 16th
1954 - 10th
1959 - 9th
1960 - 7th
1961- 9th
1962 - 6th
1964 - 2nd
1965 - 3rd
1968 - 6th
1969 - 7th
1970 - 11th
1971 - 16th
1975 - 7th
1977 - 3rd
1978 - 11th
1979 - 8th
1982 - 9th
1985 - 12th
1986 - 15th
1988 - 12th
1989 - 13th
1998 - 16th
1999 - 17th
2006 - 15th
2010 - 12th
2011 - 5th

[hobhog]

It's depressing when you think We will never win the SEC.  it's just not meant to be.

That must suck for you, no doubt.....

[hogsanity]

Close....but probably not most....

Hogs Final AP ranking - all time
1936 - 18th
1937 - 14th
1946 - 16th
1954 - 10th
1959 - 9th
1960 - 7th
1961- 9th
1962 - 6th
1964 - 2nd
1965 - 3rd
1968 - 6th
1969 - 7th
1970 - 11th
1971 - 16th
1975 - 7th
1977 - 3rd
1978 - 11th
1979 - 8th
1982 - 9th
1985 - 12th
1986 - 15th
1988 - 12th
1989 - 13th
1998 - 16th
1999 - 17th
2006 - 15th
2010 - 12th
2011 - 5th

13 out of 80, yea not close to " most years ".

[Rzback]

Close....but probably not most....

Hogs Final AP ranking - all time
1936 - 18th
1937 - 14th
1946 - 16th
1954 - 10th
1959 - 9th
1960 - 7th
1961- 9th
1962 - 6th
1964 - 2nd
1965 - 3rd
1968 - 6th
1969 - 7th
1970 - 11th
1971 - 16th
1975 - 7th
1977 - 3rd
1978 - 11th
1979 - 8th
1982 - 9th
1985 - 12th
1986 - 15th
1988 - 12th
1989 - 13th
1998 - 16th
1999 - 17th
2006 - 15th
2010 - 12th
2011 - 5th

My family has been either big Red or Tush Hog contributors for the past 40 years. I'm 52 years old now and I remember the great success of the 60's, 70's and 80's. There was hardly a year that the Razorbacks wasn't pre-season top 10 and most years, we finished that way. It's very difficult for me to continue giving to a university that doesn't put winning first when it comes to their athletic program. I don't pay thousands to go watch them take a damn exam. I'm sick and tired of it and I think the UA has seen the last of my money. Personally, I think we made a huge mistake going to the SEC. I will write the reasons why later in a new topic.

This is what I am hearing from a lot of old timers. We always thought we had a shot at the championship at the beginning of the year. I do think that a lot of it was that we were in the SWC and not the SEC and having lived in TX, GA, and FL high school football and recruiting is not the same in Arkansas. I love the Razorbacks but I'm to the point I don't even hope for a championship anymore in football or basketball. I'm 65 so I don't likely have a lot of years left to see an undisputed National Championship :-( at least I experienced one in basketball. I think it will take a coach that thinks outside of the box for Arkansas to win one.

[EastexHawg]

We finished in the top 15 (well, there was one year when we were 16th) eighteen times between when I was born and when I turned 30 years old.  Eleven of those finishes were top tens.  So yeah...Arkansas football really was that good when we "old timers" were younger.

But here's the main point.  Some of us waited almost 30 years, from 1982 to 2011, to see Arkansas finish in that 18th or 19th or 20th top ten.  We endured a lot of bad Razorback football, but FINALLY the program was once again what a lot of us knew, and had been telling everyone, it could be with the right coach.  And then?  POOF.  We're right back to mediocrity.

Yeah, that's a little hard to take.  Hearing people tell all the rest of us it's all we can really expect is even harder.

[DLUXHOG]

13 out of 80, yea not close to " most years ".

From 1960 - 1980 Hogs were final AP ranked 13 times with 10 of those rankings in top 10 I think.     Hogs had some great teams between 1960 - 1980.