To the "Fire Jeff Long" crowd

[jkstock04]

Silly me....I thought we are speaking about the athletic department at The University of Arkansas, the State's flagship of higher education. I guess graduation and APR just doesn't matter. 

It's important. If that stuff isn't up to par it will have a negative effect. If kids don't get the grades then they don't play. If kids can't stay out of trouble then they can't play. I get that.

Where I personally get sideways is when that stuff (or anything non football for that matter) takes paramount over wins/losses. I think the people that matter and make the decisions in our administration aren't overly concerned with winning or seriously competing for a championship.

Take a look at what the University of Houstons president says concerning their expectations:

"The winning is defined at University of Houston as 10 and 2," she told faculty and staff at the annual holiday party at her home. "We'll fire coaches at 8 and 4." Of course me siting this will leave me open to the inevitable "go root for Houston then." Save it...whatever. It's just an example of what I'm talking about.

They may be FOS with their mentality, and ya they aren't in the SEC...but it does show that they have an administration that really put an emphasis on winning. That's just one example...many if not most of our conference foes we compete against have this winning mentality as well. I wish we did too.

[tusksincolorado]

I’ve followed Razorback football for over sixty years. I saw Frank Broyles take a nothing program and build it into one of the most respected programs in the nation.

I’ve been on this message board over ten years and I do believe this is the most asinine statement I’ve ever seen posted on this board.

10 years!!!! This is mild...

[hogsanity]

So who do the coaches answer to?

The coaches answer to the AD, but the AD is not responsible for wins or losses. He also answers to others who very well may be the ones saying what the coaches have to do to stay employed.

[EastexHawg]

I've followed Razorback football for over sixty years. I saw Frank Broyles take a nothing program and build it into one of the most respected programs in the nation.

I've been on this message board over ten years and I do believe this is the most asinine statement I've ever seen posted on this board.

Thank you.  Comparing Broyles to Long is not only asinine but insulting.

[grayhawg]

The coaches answer to the AD, but the AD is not responsible for wins or losses. He also answers to others who very well may be the ones saying what the coaches have to do to stay employed.

If the UofA is not interested in wins and losses they should fire all the coaches and hire high school coaches. Wonder if Long ever thinks he should have let Pelphrey go a year earlier before people completely gave up on basketball. And most are still not buying tickets.

edit

Fans will only stand for bad football so long and like in the basketball program, apathy rules.

[ricepig]

It's important. If that stuff isn't up to par it will have a negative effect. If kids don't get the grades then they don't play. If kids can't stay out of trouble then they can't play. I get that.

Where I personally get sideways is when that stuff (or anything non football for that matter) takes paramount over wins/losses. I think the people that matter and make the decisions in our administration aren't overly concerned with winning or seriously competing for a championship.

Take a look at what the University of Houstons president says concerning their expectations:

"The winning is defined at University of Houston as 10 and 2," she told faculty and staff at the annual holiday party at her home. "We'll fire coaches at 8 and 4." Of course me siting this will leave me open to the inevitable "go root for Houston then." Save it...whatever. It's just an example of what I'm talking about.

They may be FOS with their mentality, and ya they aren't in the SEC...but it does show that they have an administration that really put an emphasis on winning. That's just one example...many if not most of our conference foes we compete against have this winning mentality as well. I wish we did too.

Well, since she's hedged their future on winning to recoup the $100M they shifted from academics to the athletic department, I understand her point.


https://www.texastribune.org/2015/09/03/quest-top-tier-u-houston-spends-big-athletics/

[factchecker]

Thank you.  Comparing Broyles to Long is not only asinine but insulting.

I have to agree with you here.  I like Long but Broyles is in a different stratosphere.

[hogsanity]

If the UofA is not interested in wins and losses they should fire all the coaches and hire high school coaches. Wonder if Long ever thinks he should have let Pelphrey go a year earlier before people completely gave up on basketball. And most are still not buying tickets.

Pel wasnt going to be fired at all with that awesome recruiting class coming in, until they figured out they had a real shot at MA because he wanted to bail on Mizzu.

To the rest of your post, I never said they don't care about wins and losses, I said they are setting the criteria to stay employed, and they are not as unrealistic as many fans are when it comes to wins and losses, especially in football.

[EastexHawg]

Well, since she's hedged their future on winning to recoup the $100M they shifted from academics to the athletic department, I understand her point.


https://www.texastribune.org/2015/09/03/quest-top-tier-u-houston-spends-big-athletics/

If only Houston were Vanderbilt and raking in SEC revenue sharing type money.

[ricepig]

If only Houston were Vanderbilt and raking in SEC revenue sharing type money.

If the frog had wings........and Vandy's endowment more than makes up for any other deficiencies.

[tusksincolorado]

It's important. If that stuff isn't up to par it will have a negative effect. If kids don't get the grades then they don't play. If kids can't stay out of trouble then they can't play. I get that.

Where I personally get sideways is when that stuff (or anything non football for that matter) takes paramount over wins/losses. I think the people that matter and make the decisions in our administration aren't overly concerned with winning or seriously competing for a championship.

Take a look at what the University of Houstons president says concerning their expectations:

"The winning is defined at University of Houston as 10 and 2," she told faculty and staff at the annual holiday party at her home. "We'll fire coaches at 8 and 4.” Of course me siting this will leave me open to the inevitable "go root for Houston then." Save it...whatever. It's just an example of what I'm talking about.

They may be FOS with their mentality, and ya they aren't in the SEC...but it does show that they have an administration that really put an emphasis on winning. That's just one example...many if not most of our conference foes we compete against have this winning mentality as well. I wish we did too.

That is great....for the University of Houston!

I would love to have that mission statement conveyed at the UA, and it is fun when we exceed in our wildest expectations! I also truly believe that is the intention and plan of every coach and employee in the athletic department is to achieve a great season year in and year out. But the real mission of the University is the education of the students, and that includes the athletes.

[hogsanity]

It's important. If that stuff isn't up to par it will have a negative effect. If kids don't get the grades then they don't play. If kids can't stay out of trouble then they can't play. I get that.

Where I personally get sideways is when that stuff (or anything non football for that matter) takes paramount over wins/losses. I think the people that matter and make the decisions in our administration aren't overly concerned with winning or seriously competing for a championship.

Take a look at what the University of Houstons president says concerning their expectations:

"The winning is defined at University of Houston as 10 and 2," she told faculty and staff at the annual holiday party at her home. "We'll fire coaches at 8 and 4." Of course me siting this will leave me open to the inevitable "go root for Houston then." Save it...whatever. It's just an example of what I'm talking about.

They may be FOS with their mentality, and ya they aren't in the SEC...but it does show that they have an administration that really put an emphasis on winning. That's just one example...many if not most of our conference foes we compete against have this winning mentality as well. I wish we did too.

So had they gone 8-4 they were going to fire Tom Herman? IF they go 8-4 or worse next year they are going to fire the guy they just hired?

[kaiserhog]

Pel wasnt going to be fired at all with that awesome recruiting class coming in, until they figured out they had a real shot at MA because he wanted to bail on Mizzu.

To the rest of your post, I never said they don't care about wins and losses, I said they are setting the criteria to stay employed, and they are not as unrealistic as many fans are when it comes to wins and losses, especially in football.

Hate to call you out, but Pel was fired before they had MA secured.  In fact JL first choice was Buzz Williams. Former players sold JL on MA over dinner at Theo's.  You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.

[1highhog]

I’ve followed Razorback football for over sixty years. I saw Frank Broyles take a nothing program and build it into one of the most respected programs in the nation.

I’ve been on this message board over ten years and I do believe this is the most asinine statement I’ve ever seen posted on this board.

Proof is in the pudding.  When Jeff Long was hired most people were saying there was no way another AD would be able to step in at Arkansas and raise money like Frank was able to out of donors to the program, the proof is there in the public records of how much money has been raised for all of the building programs in such a short time since Long has been here.  Go ahead and take a look and get back to me.  I appreciate what Frank Broyles did as far as raising money for the program, but Long has done even better in a shorter time and continues to build up our facilities not only in sports but academics as well.

[Hogwild]

Graduating/grades/APR, CFP committee, & integrity.

-APR: the football teams APR is bad, like near the bottom of the conference bad.  The last time the football team had a top 10 finish in the conference, the SEC only had 12 teams.

-CFP committee: is great for Long but does nothing for Arkansas athletics, in fact we are the only team in our division not to be ranked in the top 5 by the committee

-integrity: Under his watch the athletic department has hired the mistress of one football coach, then his replacement is sued for fraud for the way Long set up his contract, our senior TE makes national news for stealing from the sponsor of the bowl game we were invited too.   

1. Vanderbilt, 990

2. Auburn, 982

3. Alabama, 979 (tie)

Florida, 979

5. Missouri, 978

6. South Carolina, 972

7. Mississippi St., 971

8. Texas A&M, 967

9. Georgia, 961

10. Ole Miss, 958

11. Tennessee, 956

12. Arkansas, 952

13. Kentucky, 950

14. LSU, 941

Former Arkansas football coach John L. Smith has been accused of using his employment contracts with the Razorbacks to defraud several of his creditors, according to two complaints filed this week in U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

The creditors cite his unusual contract with the Razorbacks last year, in which 71% of his $850,000 salary was deferred until right after the 2012 season. In general, the bankruptcy estate controls assets acquired by a debtor before the date of the bankruptcy filing, which was Sept. 6 in Smith's case.

[GrouchyOldGuy]

Gundy is a fantastic coach but he's coaching where he went to school isn't he? Would he ever leave, even with bb like money?

Kenny did but that was because he was upset with JFB!

[hogsanity]

Hate to call you out, but Pel was fired before they had MA secured.  In fact JL first choice was Buzz Williams. Former players sold JL on MA over dinner at Theo's.  You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.

Did I say they already had him signed? No, I said when they found out they had a shot at him. And, of course they had other options, but I seriously doubt Williams was the 1st choice, again just my opinion.

[EastexHawg]

Proof is in the pudding.  When Jeff Long was hired most people were saying there was no way another AD would be able to step in at Arkansas and raise money like Frank was able to out of donors to the program, the proof is there in the public records of how much money has been raised for all of the building programs in such a short time since Long has been here.  Go ahead and take a look and get back to me.  I appreciate what Frank Broyles did as far as raising money for the program, but Long has done even better in a shorter time and continues to build up our facilities not only in sports but academics as well.

I know it has become popular to talk about money at Arkansas, probably because that is about all we have to brag about in the major sports, but do "sports" fans still care about putting winning teams on the field?  Broyles won 10 conference championships in football as either a coach or an AD.  He had numerous top ten finishes and a lot more top 20s.  Basketball national championship and what, four Final Fours?  I can't even estimate the number of conference titles in hoops.

As I said, the comparison is not only asinine but insulting.

[PonderinHog]

Frank dug the diamond out of the donkey's ass.  Long polished it.

[hogsanity]

I know it has become popular to talk about money at Arkansas, probably because that is about all we have to brag about in the major sports, but do "sports" fans still care about putting winning teams on the field?  Broyles won 10 conference championships in football as either a coach or an AD.  He had numerous top ten finishes and a lot more top 20s.  Basketball national championship and what, four Final Fours?  I can't even estimate the number of conference titles in hoops.

As I said, the comparison is not only asinine but insulting.

1st, there are very few "sports" fans anymore. When it comes to college sports especially most are just football fans, or basketball fans. Very few people follow all the sports at a university. Second, when it comes to football, probably half the fans there on any given game day care as much or more about partying than they do about the game.

Do you care about putting a inning team on the track or cross country course? Do you care if womens soccer or softball is any good? If you do, great, but you will be in a very small group of people who care about those things.

As for the comparisons of JFB and JL, the two came from different eras. JFB was not the AD in 2004 that he was in 94 or 84.

[DeltaBoy]

Just to show you how good you are at judging talent...
Jeff Long is one of the best AD's in the country, and his bosses know it.  The only way he goes ANYWHERE is if HE chooses to get away from the idiots attacking him on twitter.

His hires are NOT WINNING ENOUGH GAMES!!!!!!

[hogsanity]

His hires are NOT WINNING ENOUGH GAMES!!!!!!

Apparently they are winning enough games for those in charge of hiring and firing them. Just because they are not winning enough games for you or me does not really matter.

[GuvHog]

Hate to call you out, but Pel was fired before they had MA secured.  In fact JL first choice was Buzz Williams. Former players sold JL on MA over dinner at Theo's.  You are entitled to your own opinion but you are not entitled to your own facts.

It didn't matter who Jeff Long wanted, he was force fed Mike Anderson like a baby in a high chair and had no other choice but to offer him the job. Had Jeff offered Buzz Williams the job, he would have been tarred and feathered for it.

[EastArkHog]

So basically when we try and hire an AD we are looking for one that can raise money not put us in a position to win games as he is the leader of the athletic department, check. Any one can kiss butt and raise money in the SEC, let him draw in the same money in the CSUA and call me impressed then, oh and screw pepsi.  :razorback:

[BassinHawg]

Pepsi is a Northern drink! Nuff Said!

[hogsanity]

So basically when we try and hire an AD we are looking for one that can raise money not put us in a position to win games as he is the leader of the athletic department,

As you said he is the leader of the athletic dept - and as such he is not hired to win games, coaches are hired to do that. I am sure his bosses have given minimum levels of performance coaches much reach to stay employed ( apparently 16-16 in bball, and 7-6 in football are good enough for them ). His job goes far beyond wins and losses, but some of you can't look past football to see that.

[Fatty McGee]

Being Non-competitive will eventually dry up the money that the great one has to spend.  It will take time.  As long as there is any hope, most will hang on.  But when the teams the givers pay for and pay to see are not competitive long enough the fans and givers will wonder away.  In the long haul, COMPETITIVE COMPETITION pays for everything at the sports programs, including the great ones salary.

Problem with this theory is that at our school and 90% of the rest, we haven't been that competitive for decades.  And more money keeps flowing in.

There will be a tipping point, but it will be due to factors other than the product on the field, because it will affect all college football.

[jkstock04]

Problem with this theory is that at our school and 90% of the rest, we haven't been that competitive for decades.  And more money keeps flowing in.

There will be a tipping point, but it will be due to factors other than the product on the field, because it will affect all college football.

Take a look at the bball program. Talk about a complete tank job to end Broyles tenure and now under Longs watch pretty much flushed down the toilet. The SEC is overall a horrid conference for bball play which doesn't help.

However, from my understanding it still rakes in a very nice profit despite all this & BWA being a shell of what it once was. It's possible that wins/losses truly don't matter any more. Corporate money, SEC affiliation with TV deals, etc is maybe all that matters these days.

[Fatty McGee]

Take a look at the bball program. Talk about a complete tank job to end Broyles tenure and now under Longs watch pretty much flushed down the toilet. The SEC is overall a horrid conference for bball play which doesn't help.

However, from my understanding it still rakes in a very nice profit despite all this & BWA being a shell of what it once was. It's possible that wins/losses truly don't matter any more. Corporate money, SEC affiliation with TV deals, etc is maybe all that matters these days.

Since probably 1990, that's all that's mattered.  Maybe longer. 

We aren't flushed down the toilet.  In football we're exactly where we've historically been.  Basketball is subject to different pressures, given the declining popularity of college basketball across the board.

[hogsanity]

Take a look at the bball program. Talk about a complete tank job to end Broyles tenure and now under Longs watch pretty much flushed down the toilet. The SEC is overall a horrid conference for bball play which doesn't help.

However, from my understanding it still rakes in a very nice profit despite all this & BWA being a shell of what it once was. It's possible that wins/losses truly don't matter any more. Corporate money, SEC affiliation with TV deals, etc is maybe all that matters these days.

bball sold something like 13K season tickets, that's is more season tickets than many schools have total seats in their bball arena. Now, apparently most of these people buy their tickets and then rarely actually use them, but that is a different issue.

[elviscat]

So a lot you guys it's all about the money and not about the quality of the program. Look at the number of losers he has hired. You got your money guy and Mr. Integrity but what else do you have. We are  like a middle grade program spinning in a circle with no where to go.To some it's about the number of "Butts in the seats" not whether we win or lose. I don't think JL vision or understanding of Razorback tradition and legacy is very good.

[hogsanity]

So a lot you guys it's all about the money and not about the quality of the program. Look at the number of losers he has hired. You got your money guy and Mr. Integrity but what else do you have. We are  like a middle grade program spinning in a circle with no where to go.To some it's about the number of "Butts in the seats" not whether we win or lose. I don't think JL vision or understanding of Razorback tradition and legacy is very good.

No, what we are saying is wins and losses are not his job, making sure the ENTIRE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT  is in good shape financially, good standing with the NCAA, and is an asset to the school is the job of the AD. At some point he or his bosses will determine if a coach is no longer adding to, or is becoming a detriment to those aspects of the athletic department.

[Fatty McGee]

So a lot you guys it's all about the money and not about the quality of the program. Look at the number of losers he has hired. You got your money guy and Mr. Integrity but what else do you have. We are  like a middle grade program spinning in a circle with no where to go.To some it's about the number of "Butts in the seats" not whether we win or lose. I don't think JL vision or understanding of Razorback tradition and legacy is very good.

I think fans have a misguided assessment of what the Razorback tradition and legacy is.

[EastexHawg]

I think fans have a misguided assessment of what the Razorback tradition and legacy is.

And as long as Long keeps hiring and hanging onto coaches current and future generations won't know any different.

[duckman]

Feel free to join me, this is where I have gone....

[hawgmasta]

I'm glad you all are enjoying your director's cup victory.  Where is the victory party going to be held?

I lol'd. Is there a playoff for this as well?

[Hawg Life]

Thank you.  Comparing Broyles to Long is not only asinine but insulting.

Most of you wanted Broyles gone 30 years ago too. The AD doesn't coach, and some of you blame CMA when many of you begged for him as he was a "healing" politically correct hire. CBB was a hot commodity and proved he could win in a similar environment in Wisconsin.

[JOKERHOG]

Most of you wanted Broyles gone 30 years ago too. The AD doesn't coach, and some of you blame CMA when many of you begged for him as he was a "healing" politically correct hire. CBB was a hot commodity and proved he could win in a similar environment in Wisconsin.

LOL'ed and spit my coffee.  BB was not a hot commodity.  He was handed and reins and watched over closely at Wisky.  What a joke

[EastexHawg]

Most of you wanted Broyles gone 30 years ago too. The AD doesn't coach, and some of you blame CMA when many of you begged for him as he was a "healing" politically correct hire. CBB was a hot commodity and proved he could win in a similar environment in Wisconsin.

I don't even know where to start.

Who wanted Broyles gone in the mid 80s?  I had been a Hog fan for almost 20 years at that time and I don't recall it, but maybe my memory is failing.  My irritation with Broyles started shortly before he was let go, during his "7th or 8th in the SEC" defense of Houston Nutt.  By that time he had put in almost 50 years of building championship teams across the board, including the two major men's sports, as well as facilities that would have been unimaginable when he showed up at Arkansas.

The next time Jeff Long does that will be the first time.

As for Mike Anderson, the athletic director makes his decisions on who should get the basketball head coaching job based on what fans think?  Or, more accurately, what you say fans wanted?  For the record, I never wanted Mike Anderson.  I don't know if it can be found in my post history, but I said at the time that he was nothing more than a nostalgia hire and that unless he was going to bring back Corliss, Scotty, Corey Beck, and Al Dillard the idea of recreating 1994-95 was foolish.

Finally...Wisconsin is a similar environment to the SEC?  You may be onto something, but if you are you are the only one.  Even Bielema said he was surprised by the athleticism he saw once he started playing SEC opponents on a weekly basis.

[GuvHog]

No, what we are saying is wins and losses are not his job, making sure the ENTIRE ATHLETIC DEPARTMENT  is in good shape financially, good standing with the NCAA, and is an asset to the school is the job of the AD. At some point he or his bosses will determine if a coach is no longer adding to, or is becoming a detriment to those aspects of the athletic department.

Wrong. When a head coach is under performing and losing more than he should, those losses all fall back on the AD too because a BIG part of his job is to hire head coaches that win and improve their programs to the point that they are relevant nationally so yes, wins and losses are a big part of the AD's job. Jeff Long is only getting part of the job done and if he is not capable of doing the whole job, he needs to go. It's time for the Long huggers to take their blinders off.

[jabberjawls]

N

I lol'd. Is there a playoff for this as well?

No, but there is a parade at 4:00 and Jeff Long is the Grand Marshall.  Lots of confetti and streamers!

[Kevin]

Pepsi is a Northern drink! Nuff Said!

invented in new bern, north carolina

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Wrong. When a head coach is under performing and losing more than he should, those losses all fall back on the AD too because a BIG part of his job is to hire head coaches that win and improve their programs to the point that they are relevant nationally so yes, wins and losses are a big part of the AD's job. Jeff Long is only getting part of the job done and if he is not capable of doing the whole job, he needs to go. It's time for the Long huggers to take their blinders off.

128 FBS schools. Less than two dozen actually operate in the black revenue wise. Many athletic departments are propped up by additional student funding and alumni donations that are not earmarked specifically for educational purposes.

National relevance on the gridiron at whose expense? The other 23,000+ students? Get your damn priorities straight.

[Fatty McGee]

Wrong. When a head coach is under performing and losing more than he should, those losses all fall back on the AD too because a BIG part of his job is to hire head coaches that win and improve their programs to the point that they are relevant nationally so yes, wins and losses are a big part of the AD's job. Jeff Long is only getting part of the job done and if he is not capable of doing the whole job, he needs to go. It's time for the Long huggers to take their blinders off.

The fans' perception of underperforming doesn't mean much.  They know little about what is involved for the most part.

[ricepig]

invented in new bern, north carolina

Thus the "north"......

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Thus the "north"......

And that's a true story.

[GuvHog]

128 FBS schools. Less than two dozen actually operate in the black revenue wise. Many athletic departments are propped up by additional student funding and alumni donations that are not earmarked specifically for educational purposes.

National relevance on the gridiron at whose expense? The other 23,000+ students? Get your damn priorities straight.

My priorities are just fine, thank you. As I said, Long is incapable of doing the whole job, a BIG part of which is hiring head coaches that improve their programs to the point of being relevant nationally, so he needs to go.

You need to get your own priorities straight.

[Hogwild]

128 FBS schools. Less than two dozen actually operate in the black revenue wise. Many athletic departments are propped up by additional student funding and alumni donations that are not earmarked specifically for educational purposes.

How does being one of the 100 that are propped up by institutional funding, support your point?

[Hawgar The Horrible]

My priorities are just fine, thank you. As I said, Long is incapable of doing the whole job, a BIG part of which is hiring head coaches that improve their programs to the point of being relevant nationally, so he needs to go.

You need to get your own priorities straight.

Time is the greatest equalizer. You can continue to drag your knuckles, but I guaran-damn-tee you CBB is going to provided with ample time. Another couple of years minimum.

So keep beating your head against the wall. In your case it might do some good.

[Hawgar The Horrible]

How does being one of the 100 that are propped up by institutional funding, support your point?

The athletic department donates to the university these days courtesy of the Razorback Foundation. Not the other way around.