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How can Stan's firing be justified after the HDN debalce? Let's hear it.

Started by bison23, January 12, 2006, 08:10:42 am

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bison23

The lawsuit that will be forthcoming if Heath is fired will dwarf Nolan's and may have merit.  How do you fire this guy and keep HDN?  Heath inherited a program in disarray and at least has remained on an even keel.  HDN inherited a program on the rise and has, at the very best, allowed it to become stagnant.

I guess Stan's mistake was not asking for his free "pass."

Hope the Foundation is willing to let loose some of that $200 million cause they will get popped.

nobballconcept

Heath should be a man and step down.  Surely he knows he is in over his head.

 

hogfan064

How do you consider a program that had 1 bowl appearance 6 years prior to Nutt arriving a program on the rise?  After that Nutt went to 6 straight bowls.  In 04 the team lost several key juniors to the NFL draft and this year we were the youngest team in the nation.   If Dmac, Peyton, Felix, Marcus, and Casey don't get you excited I don't know what will.  Not to mention the fact that Nutt has at least had a few seasons with a winning record in SEC play.  He's even with all SEC west schools except LSU since he's been here. 

Our basketball program is a top 10 alltime program.  I think it was Athlon that ranked us #8 alltime.  Only 1 other SEC team was ahead of us.  In football we're probably the 7th best and have a long uphill climb. 

hoggystyle78

Why doesn't Nutt step down? There is no way that dale would ever step down. Will Stan?, I don't know, but I think he would 10 times before nutt would.
Quote from: nobballconcept on January 12, 2006, 08:14:24 am
Heath should be a man and step down. Surely he knows he is in over his head.

Ark Blitz

Quote from: nobballconcept on January 12, 2006, 08:14:24 am
Heath should be a man and step down. Surely he knows he is in over his head.


Nutt should be a man also and step down.

hogfan064

Heath won't step down.  He's a young coach and he doesn't want to hurt his future by quitting a job. 

bison23

Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 08:16:31 am
How do you consider a program that had 1 bowl appearance 6 years prior to Nutt arriving a program on the rise? After that Nutt went to 6 straight bowls. In 04 the team lost several key juniors to the NFL draft and this year we were the youngest team in the nation. If Dmac, Peyton, Felix, Marcus, and Casey don't get you excited I don't know what will. Not to mention the fact that Nutt has at least had a few seasons with a winning record in SEC play. He's even with all SEC west schools except LSU since he's been here.

Our basketball program is a top 10 alltime program. I think it was Athlon that ranked us #8 alltime. Only 1 other SEC team was ahead of us. In football we're probably the 7th best and have a long uphill climb.

Do I really have to rehash the FB program HDN inherited, won big w/somebody else's recruits and when that dried up started on a downhill slide?  That's why the FB program was on the rise and has now started the other way.  Maybe w/this last crop of freshman it will be truned around but it better be proven to be before Heath is fired cause if he is fired and the FB program has another losing seaon and HDN is kept, woe and behold unto JFB's a$$

hogfan064

Ford didn't win with those players did he?  I don't think a Cotton appearance in 01, a SEC West championship in 02, and a 9 win season with a win in Austin in 03 had anything to do with Danny Ford.  And yes, the football program will be back next year.  If not then I agree to fire Nutt.

Marshfieldhog


Hawgon

It can't be justified, but two wrongs don't make a right.  Look at it this way, maybe if we fire Stan this year, it will make it more difficult to justify keeping Nuttless around.  Get rid of Stan this year and HDN next year.  Fire them all.

hogsanity

IMO, the difference is, Heath has the players to win, and still does not.  NUtt has not had the players to win in the SEC for the last 2 years.  Now, not having the players is ultimatley the HC fault, but based strictly on GAME PERFORMANCE  that is how I see a justifiable difference in the 2. 
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogfan064

Nutt is also fighting a huge uphill battle due to the fact our football program is competing with very elite football schools like UGA, Bama, LSU, UF, Auburn, and UT.  Not to mention he's had to deal with 2 legends at USC in Holtz and Spurrier and a Texas and Southern Cal OOC.  Heath has to compete with 1 elite program in basketball and a rising Florida program(both in the East).   

nobballconcept

Heath has not shown us any hint of major college ball coach.  x's and o's NO;  motivating players NO;  rotating players HELL NO; fundamentals NO;  desire NO;  post season NO;  0-4 home openers in SEC; 0-3 SEC tourney wins; 2-23 on the road; most losses at home of any coach since Glen Rose;  what else do we need?  be a man Heath, step down.  or get out of the way and let Hipsher talk during the game

 

hogfan064

Nutt's losses have come mainly to better programs.  With the exception of the Vandy loss and maybe a loss to 7-5 Kentucky he has no bad losses.  You will say UNLV in 2000, but we had tons of injuries.   I can name many bad losses by Heath.   2 bad losses in 8 years isn't that bad.  Most every SEC school has had more in that time period.

hogfan064

And how many great wins does Heath have?  I see only 1 and that was this year against Kansas.  I think Nutt has several including 2 over Texas, 3 blowouts of Auburn, win over a top 10 USC team

hogsanity

Another thing about comparing FB to BB.  Many years in BB your whole recruiting class is 4 players or fewer.  FB takes 25.  A bb team really needs only one "great" player if the other guys are decent.  In Fb to win in the SEC you gotta have studs at several positions. 
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

HawgWyld

Quote from: Hawgon on January 12, 2006, 08:28:08 am
Fire them all.

Just imagine how much cash the UA would be paying former coaches at that point. Someone up there has to be thinking about that. I still maintain that Nutt will be gone should he have a decent season at some point and get an offer or two from those colleges that have bought into the "Arkansas ain't worth a damn and Nutt is doing the best with what he has" crap. Our loyal coach will drop Arkansas like a bad habit in that event, regardless of what kind of nonsense Massa Lindsey tries to pull.

As for Heath, he'll have to leave voluntarily as well so long as the Nolan Richardson specter is haunting the program.

tbhogfan

There is still quite a bit of basketball to be played.   I'm not giving up on the team or Heath just yet.
Go Hogs!

HawgWyld

Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 08:40:14 am
Nutt's losses have come mainly to better programs.

Why do you think fans are so mad? The very reason your statement is true is because most programs in the SEC are better than the Razorbacks.

HawgWyld

Quote from: tbhogfan on January 12, 2006, 08:51:42 am
There is still quite a bit of basketball to be played. I'm not giving up on the team or Heath just yet.

I'm still pulling for Heath all the way. Nice guy. Hope he turns things around soon.

Hogs4Ever

It's Apples to Oranges.  Nutt has won in the recent past and is still on the hot seat though for the last two years.

Heath has done nothing in the SEC in soon to be 4 seasons.  We need a coach that can win in the SEC, not a cup-cake city.

hogfan064

And this basketball team has had 1 great player for 3 years and sadly Ronnie, who will be a solid NBA player, will never be on a great team

100+GM HAWG

Anyone that wants to compare  Nutt to Heath, I find comical.

The football team has had two crapy years, no doubt, but this passionless basketball program has to go.

Houston has been to postseason and won a couple of games. The football team has more SEC road wins in the last 3 years than the basketball team. Do you morons that compare coach's realize that the basketball team has had more opportunities to win road games because there are  few more bball games than football games.

The football team tries, the basketball team could give a ****.

Heath is passionless, has no intensity. Our basketball team is spineless.

The basketball team quit last year. Our football team played a pretty good LSU team all the way to the end.

Football is not perfect, but those guys play with passion. Basketball has no direction and no fight!

HAWGBALL HELD HOSTAGE

Ish O

Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 08:16:31 am
How do you consider a program that had 1 bowl appearance 6 years prior to Nutt arriving a program on the rise? After that Nutt went to 6 straight bowls. In 04 the team lost several key juniors to the NFL draft and this year we were the youngest team in the nation. If Dmac, Peyton, Felix, Marcus, and Casey don't get you excited I don't know what will. Not to mention the fact that Nutt has at least had a few seasons with a winning record in SEC play. He's even with all SEC west schools except LSU since he's been here.

Our basketball program is a top 10 alltime program. I think it was Athlon that ranked us #8 alltime. Only 1 other SEC team was ahead of us. In football we're probably the 7th best and have a long uphill climb.

This is my point too. How many national championships did the football team have in the decade before Nutt arrived. Nolan went to three freaking final fours in the 90's. It is MUCH easier to rebuild the bball program. Bud Walton was already in place and when Nutt arrived the expansion wasn't even started yet on Razorback Stadium.

 

sooie dog

Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 08:20:21 am
Heath won't step down. He's a young coach and he doesn't want to hurt his future by quitting a job.

Why not?  His teams don't mind quiting!

hogfan064

Those SEC programs that we've lost to have always been better than the Hogs.  Not just under Nutt.  Look at the historical records, bowls and NCs in the SEC and you'll Arkansas ranks about 7th in all catagories. 

Look at final 4s, NCs, tourney appearances and Arkansas ranks 2nd in every catagory.

Out of 120 schools Arkansas football program probably ranks about 20-25 alltime.  And its facilities about the same, fan support around the same

In basketball out of 300+ schools Arkansas ranks around 10th alltime in tradition and top 5 in facilities and fans support. 

It's easier to win at Arkansas in basketball than football. 

oldbooniehog

The math is really quite simple.

Football trips to post-season in last four years......2

Basketball trips to post-season in last four years....0

Batting .500 in post season is a lot better than batting .000, no matter how you try to slice it.

Also, Football record over last four years.....27-22 or .550

Basketball record over last four years......50-51 or .495

No matter how you slice it, .550 is better than .495.

Over the last four years, no matter how you slice it, Nutt has done a better job over the last four years than Heath has.

oldbooniehog

hogfan064

And if look look towards next year for the Hogs in basketball I'm not to excited if Brewer leaves.  I'm very excited about next year's football with or without MM

Ark Blitz

WOW!!! I can't believe that NWA fans want to get rid of Heath and not Nutt.  Nolan was right.

nwarazfan

Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 08:16:31 am
How do you consider a program that had 1 bowl appearance 6 years prior to Nutt arriving a program on the rise? After that Nutt went to 6 straight bowls. In 04 the team lost several key juniors to the NFL draft and this year we were the youngest team in the nation. If Dmac, Peyton, Felix, Marcus, and Casey don't get you excited I don't know what will. Not to mention the fact that Nutt has at least had a few seasons with a winning record in SEC play. He's even with all SEC west schools except LSU since he's been here.

Our basketball program is a top 10 alltime program. I think it was Athlon that ranked us #8 alltime. Only 1 other SEC team was ahead of us. In football we're probably the 7th best and have a long uphill climb.

Ford just took over our program at its lowest point talentwise in comparsion to our competition since the 50s as we were entering the SEC when we were also grossly behind in facilities.  Ford had to recruit out of mobile homes in the parking lot to that oversized HS stadium part of the time he was here.  He managed an SEC Ch game appearance and managed to use that to recruit SEC Ch caliber talent(the committee that hired Nutt even admitted that Tommy T would have won at least one SEC Ch with that talent Ford left).  Ford left the program better than he found it.  Nutt will not.  Thanks to what Ford left, the Nuttster now has a wonderful stadium, a great practice facility and a world class weightroom and can't even manage an avg recruiting class based on SEC standards. 

hogfan064

Nutt has recruited top 25 classes at Arkansas.  Unfortunately, so does 9 other schools in the SEC.  Nutt has alot more competetion to deal with than Heath. 

Oh and Danny Ford didn't build those facilities. I think Broyles and company had more to do with it than that.  Not to mention the fact that NWA was under a population explosion and 540 was making it easier to get to the area

Pissed Pig

Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 09:03:12 am
Those SEC programs that we've lost to have always been better than the Hogs. Not just under Nutt. Look at the historical records, bowls and NCs in the SEC and you'll Arkansas ranks about 7th in all catagories.

Look at final 4s, NCs, tourney appearances and Arkansas ranks 2nd in every catagory.

Out of 120 schools Arkansas football program probably ranks about 20-25 alltime. And its facilities about the same, fan support around the same

In basketball out of 300+ schools Arkansas ranks around 10th alltime in tradition and top 5 in facilities and fans support.

It's easier to win at Arkansas in basketball than football.


You sir, are obviously a Nutthugger.    31-33 in conf play in eight years.   So until Stan completely destroys the program, get off his back.  It is not easier to win in one sport over the other, and the SEC is actually know for three sports, bball, fball and Baseball.  This .550 over .490 comparison, given the fact Heath had to start from scratch, is not realistic.  Nutt had one, if not the best the year in his first year.  A premier coach is supposed to take that mo' and build on it.  And don't give me the probation line of crap, cause it ain't affecting Bama.  If Heath hadn't had that first year's record where we he be?  And if Nutt hadn't had his first year's record, well, we'd be talking about Butch Davis recruiting this week.

bison23

Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 09:16:53 am
Nutt has recruited top 25 classes at Arkansas. Unfortunately, so does 9 other schools in the SEC. Nutt has alot more competetion to deal with than Heath.

Oh and Danny Ford didn't build those facilities. I think Broyles and company had more to do with it than that. Not to mention the fact that NWA was under a population explosion and 540 was making it easier to get to the area

When were the facilities built?  Right after 9-3 and 8-4 seasons w/talent Ford left.  Do ya really think the facilities would have been built after the last two seasons?

Hawgon

Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 09:16:53 am
Nutt has recruited top 25 classes at Arkansas. Unfortunately, so does 9 other schools in the SEC. Nutt has alot more competetion to deal with than Heath.

Oh and Danny Ford didn't build those facilities. I think Broyles and company had more to do with it than that. Not to mention the fact that NWA was under a population explosion and 540 was making it easier to get to the area

hogfan064,

You have ten posts in a thirty-one post thread.  Give it up!  You are correct, HDN is a JFB and we are lucky to have him.  Heath is not worthy to lick HDN's shoes.  We should fire Heath and bring in one of the Nutt brother's to coach basketball so that we can experience the blessings that the magical Nutt family can bestow on our fine university. 

Yes, hogfan064, you have won me over with your ten posts.  I have changed my mind.  All hail Nutt!  Fire Stan Heath!

nwarazfan

Quote from: bison23 on January 12, 2006, 09:22:35 am
Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 09:16:53 am
Nutt has recruited top 25 classes at Arkansas. Unfortunately, so does 9 other schools in the SEC. Nutt has alot more competetion to deal with than Heath.

Oh and Danny Ford didn't build those facilities. I think Broyles and company had more to do with it than that. Not to mention the fact that NWA was under a population explosion and 540 was making it easier to get to the area

When were the facilities built? Right after 9-3 and 8-4 seasons w/talent Ford left. Do ya really think the facilities would have been built after the last two seasons?

He doesn't want to admit that much of what success Nutt has had was due to what Ford left him Bison.  He won't admit the momentum gained from the success of the players Ford left behind led to the upgrading of the facilities.  Nutt has been handed all he could hope for at Ark including talent to start, great facilities, the Natl player of the Year QB in his backyard to recruit and two fantastic HS RB's(Cobbs and DMac) and has at best done a mediocre job.

Allister Fiend

Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 08:24:21 am
Ford didn't win with those players did he?  I don't think a Cotton appearance in 01, a SEC West championship in 02, and a 9 win season with a win in Austin in 03 had anything to do with Danny Ford.  And yes, the football program will be back next year.  If not then I agree to fire Nutt.

Actually, we tied for second in the SEC West in 02. Alabama would have been the champ if not for probation. They had the best record even on probation. We slipped into the SECCG by the tie breaker. WOW! That's impressive. In 8 years, not even a single TRUE SEC West title. Anyone tooting Nutt's horn for his "accomplishments" must love mediocrity.

hogfan064

Do you really think the athletic department planned those facilities 1 year before building them.  This is something that took more than 2 years of planning.  Those facilities would've been built regardless of Nutt's first 2 years.  They had to build them to keep up with the SEC


hogfan064

I'm not supporting Nutt. I'm just stating he's done a better job than Heath.  The thread is asking for justification in keeping Nutt and not Heath.  I'm pointing out that I believe Nutt has done the better job.  Heath has done nothing so far, at least Nutt has some accomplishments

Hardwork321


hogfan064

Hawgon, there's no reason to be a jerk about the situation.  I'm just stating facts about what Nutt has accomplished and what Heath hasn't.   We're all Hog fans and support the team and we all have our opinions.  My opinion is Nutt has done a better job than Heath.  That' s my opinion.  You can argue it all you want, but I have a right to post on this thread if people are responding to me and I'm being civil about it.

Ark Blitz

Quote from: Hardwork321 on January 12, 2006, 09:35:35 am
Nolan was right on the money.



Couldn't agree with you more.  Nutt should be the 1st to be gone.  Nutt has had 8yrs!!

frostypig


Hawgon

Quote from: hogfan064 on January 12, 2006, 09:41:07 am
Hawgon, there's no reason to be a jerk about the situation. I'm just stating facts about what Nutt has accomplished and what Heath hasn't. We're all Hog fans and support the team and we all have our opinions. My opinion is Nutt has done a better job than Heath. That' s my opinion. You can argue it all you want, but I have a right to post on this thread if people are responding to me and I'm being civil about it.

That is 13 posts by you in this thread.  You feel strongly about it, huh?

Biggus Piggus

Quote from: bison23 on January 12, 2006, 08:10:42 am
The lawsuit that will be forthcoming if Heath is fired will dwarf Nolan's and may have merit. How do you fire this guy and keep HDN? Heath inherited a program in disarray and at least has remained on an even keel. HDN inherited a program on the rise and has, at the very best, allowed it to become stagnant.

I guess Stan's mistake was not asking for his free "pass."

Hope the Foundation is willing to let loose some of that $200 million cause they will get popped.

Why would there be a lawsuit?  If all goes according to form, the team will fold up and look pathetic in February-March once again.  That'll make four straight folds down the stretch, four sub-.500 SEC records in a row.  Nutt can't come close to touching that ** performance.
[CENSORED]!


Flatfoot

I posted this March 10, 2005.  Isn't it time we finally told Stan that enough is enough.

 

Other than beating the cupcakes, there was not one team we beat that was in the top 100.  Let me repeat top 100.  Not even Mizzou.  Let's talk conference record for the last three years.

02-03 4-12
03-04 4-12
04-05 6-10

Grand total of 14 conference wins in 48 games.  2 road wins in 3 years.  That is impressive.    You keep on supporting Heath, while our basketball program keeps sinking. 

 
Thank God for Hogville.  I get my Hog Therapy here everyday.

hogfan064

I'm not the only one that feels that way Hawgon. And make that post 14 since you're counting.   IF that really bothers you then tough. 

Ark Blitz

Quote from: Biggus Piggus on January 12, 2006, 12:19:32 pm
Quote from: bison23 on January 12, 2006, 08:10:42 am
The lawsuit that will be forthcoming if Heath is fired will dwarf Nolan's and may have merit. How do you fire this guy and keep HDN? Heath inherited a program in disarray and at least has remained on an even keel. HDN inherited a program on the rise and has, at the very best, allowed it to become stagnant.

I guess Stan's mistake was not asking for his free "pass."

Hope the Foundation is willing to let loose some of that $200 million cause they will get popped.

Why would there be a lawsuit? If all goes according to form, the team will fold up and look pathetic in February-March once again. That'll make four straight folds down the stretch, four sub-.500 SEC records in a row. Nutt can't come close to touching that ** performance.



You gotta be kidding me if you really think Heath is worse than Nutt.  Nutt hasn't done shiit in 8 yrs!

hogsanity

UH, HEATH is the one who has not done anything.  NO POSTSEASONS.  Nutt has gone to the postseasn 6 times, say what you will, but he took his teams there. 

IT is not just the records though.  We hear all the time what great recruits STan is getting, yet they underperform. 
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

hogoh

I can see the hiring pitch to the new basketball HC re: his job security. 

If you really suck, you will be fired.  If you just plain suck, you'll keep your job and we'll just make you hire a new assistant (or OC as the case may be).