What are your Expectations for Basketball?

[alohawg]

Eddie Sutton: Nine NCAA Tournament appearances in 11 years (82%), including one Final Four, one Elite Eight, and two Sweet Sixteens. We won or shared the SWC four times in those nine years, and finished second the other five of those nine years. We won the SWC Tournament three times. We finished the season ranked in the Top 20 eight of those 11 years. Our average record under Sutton was 24-7.

Nolan Richardson: Thirteen NCAA Tournament appearances in 17 years (76%), including one National Championship, three Final Fours, one Elite Eight, and two Sweet Sixteens. We made the NIT two times as well - 15 postseason appearance in 17 years. We won the SEC Tournament once, and finished the season ranked in the Top 20 10 times. Our average record under Nolan was 23-10.

What those two men accomplished is what my expectations for Stan Heath and John Pelphrey were based on, and what my expectations for Mike Anderson are based on, and what my expectations for our next coach will be based on. When you have experienced the energy of full houses at first Barnhill and then BWA, plus a rocking "Barnhill South" in Dallas; when you have traveled to Dallas to watch us defeat a Michigan team led by Jalen Rose and Juwan Howard to make the Final Four; when you have attended a Final Four in Denver (where I turned down $4,000 in 1990 dollars for my two tickets I had just paid $500 for); and when you have watched players like the Triplets, Joe Kleine, Alvin Robertson, Darrell Walker, Scott Hastings, MayDay and Big "O," and Corliss and Scotty...

You aren't much interested in listening to people talk about what our basketball program can't do.

Two thumbs

[HogBreath]

Since we've waited 6 years for CMA to get around to recruiting some players, we may need to just hang on and ride this thing out.

And most seem to really love the exciting fast 40 style.

[WilsonHog]

For the sake of comparison to Eddie and Nolan (and to each other):

Stan Heath: Two NCAA Tournaments in five years, both first-round exits. No conference or conference tournament championships. No top 20 finishes. Average record was 16-14.

John Pelphrey: One NCAA Tournament in four years, a second-round exit. No conference or conference tournament championships. No top 20 finishes. Average record was 17-15.

Mike Anderson: One NCAA Tournament in five years, a second-round exit. One NIT as well. No conference or tournament championships. One Top 20 finish. Average record is 20-13.

[HoopS]

The difference in Pel having the one class we hoped to keep together and MA right now is that we aren't talking one class. We have 3 very good classes set to play for Mike. The good news in that is surely Justice Hill would be a Hog either way but I don't know that for sure.

[hobhog]

Tournament or bust. Period.

[Atlhogfan1]

A coach who can't get good recruits to Arkansas including those from in state shouldn't be hired.  You don't fire Mike Anderson to hire another Mike Anderson or worse.  We are at an interesting crossroads.  Coach A finally has some recruits coming who could make the program consistently relevant - to a point at the least.  But by the time he has put it together in season 7-8-9, who will give a darn outside of those most ardent supporters?  And you are trusting he is capable of maximizing their abilities.  A coach reluctant to play freshmen.   

[Razorod]

A coach who can't get good recruits to Arkansas including those from in state shouldn't be hired.  You don't fire Mike Anderson to hire another Mike Anderson or worse.  We are at an interesting crossroads.  Coach A finally has some recruits coming who could make the program consistently relevant - to a point at the least.  But by the time he has put it together in season 7-8-9, who will give a darn outside of those most ardent supporters?  And you are trusting he is capable of maximizing their abilities.  A coach reluctant to play freshmen.   

One thing about the '18 class, six seniors will have just left. Anderson's hand will be a bit forced regarding playing freshmen.

[Atlhogfan1]

One thing about the '18 class, six seniors will have just left. Anderson's hand will be a bit forced regarding playing freshmen.

Yep.  Roster turnover again.  Season 8 will be they are young and they just need experience and Justice Hill to arrive in season 9. 

I would hope an Arkansas coach here for 8 seasons and with some in state talent could stumble into a couple of good seasons. 

[HognitiveDissonance]

Originally posted Dec 29, 2014



The reasonable and fair goals for this program are:
1)By year three, a coach should have his system and players in place and be in the NCAAT. Hopefully sooner, but no later than that. So we're behind schedule.
2)After Year Three, the minimum expectation, or floor, to the program should be a NCAA bid. This is not SEC football...it's not even SEC baseball. It's basketball, and although the competition is good, it's tougher in other sports. The SEC is there for the taking for basketball-emphasis schools like UK, Ark, and Fla to dominate most years.
I love the baseball model: Coach Van Horn has been here 13 years, and has placed his team in the NCAAs all 13 years. That's the 'floor' of the program. Some years it's better, and some are real good(CWS). That's the model for the hoops program. I would think one could make a strong argument that SEC baseball is more competitive than SEC hoops is.
3)Beyond Year 3 for a coach, once every 2-3 years, a Sweet 16 appearance.
4)Beyond Year 3 for a coach, once every 7-10 years, a Final 4 appearance.
5)And yes, since it's been done before, it's not unrealistic to hope and/or expect a coach to deliver a national title once every 15-20 years.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Eddie Sutton: Nine NCAA Tournament appearances in 11 years (82%), including one Final Four, one Elite Eight, and two Sweet Sixteens. We won or shared the SWC four times in those nine years, and finished second the other five of those nine years. We won the SWC Tournament three times. We finished the season ranked in the Top 20 eight of those 11 years. Our average record under Sutton was 24-7.

Nolan Richardson: Thirteen NCAA Tournament appearances in 17 years (76%), including one National Championship, three Final Fours, one Elite Eight, and two Sweet Sixteens. We made the NIT two times as well - 15 postseason appearance in 17 years. We won the SEC Tournament once, and finished the season ranked in the Top 20 10 times. Our average record under Nolan was 23-10.

What those two men accomplished is what my expectations for Stan Heath and John Pelphrey were based on, and what my expectations for Mike Anderson are based on, and what my expectations for our next coach will be based on. When you have experienced the energy of full houses at first Barnhill and then BWA, plus a rocking "Barnhill South" in Dallas; when you have traveled to Dallas to watch us defeat a Michigan team led by Jalen Rose and Juwan Howard to make the Final Four; when you have attended a Final Four in Denver (where I turned down $4,000 in 1990 dollars for my two tickets I had just paid $500 for); and when you have watched players like the Triplets, Joe Kleine, Alvin Robertson, Darrell Walker, Scott Hastings, MayDay and Big "O," and Corliss and Scotty...

You aren't much interested in listening to people talk about what our basketball program can't do.

Agree 1,000,000%

Once you've seen that era, you're not interested in anything else. Those of us who are old enough lived through that; that's all we care about...getting that back.

And the fact is, this is the modern era. It's been shown the level of success that can happen here, so I for darn sure don't want to hear excuses why it can't happen again.

[HognitiveDissonance]

For the sake of comparison to Eddie and Nolan (and to each other):

Stan Heath: Two NCAA Tournaments in five years, both first-round exits. No conference or conference tournament championships. No top 20 finishes. Average record was 16-14.

John Pelphrey: One NCAA Tournament in four years, a second-round exit. No conference or conference tournament championships. No top 20 finishes. Average record was 17-15.

Mike Anderson: One NCAA Tournament in five years, a second-round exit. One NIT as well. No conference or tournament championships. One Top 20 finish. Average record is 20-13.

It's eerie to see those three compared together. How similar they are.

It inspires a lot of 'blah' reaction.

I used to think that the Arkansas program...the fans, facilities, interest level...etc was what propelled the program.
Over time, I learned better. It's ALL based on who the coach is. (and really, you can say that about anywhere).
It's not us...we were just lucky to have two incredible coaches for 30 years. Once those guys were gone, we found out it wasn't about the program, it was showing how good they were.

It's always about the coach. Alabama will learn that when Nick Saban leaves. They should already know; Alabama under Mike Dubose, Mike Shula, etc is a far different program.
North Carolina basketball should know this. UNC is far different under Roy Williams than it was under Matt Doherty.

The coach makes everything happen, but it has to be the RIGHT coach.

[HognitiveDissonance]

Let me clarify.
I said we were 'lucky' to have Eddie and Nolan, two great coaches, all those years.
But I dislike the word luck, as I believe it's overused.

There's one guy who hired both of those men: Frank Broyles.
He also hired our incredible baseball coach, Dave Van Horn(13 NCAAs in 14 years)
He also hired John McDonnell, maybe the greatest coach in NCAA history.

So let me retract; it wasn't lucky. Frank was smart enough to see something in these men, and hired them.

Our current AD is a good businessman but hasn't shown the talent for spotting talented people. The results show.
As they say, it all starts at the top.

[HognitiveDissonance]

You don't consider these national and/or prestigious enough?


Frank Broyles          College Football Hall of Fame
John McDonnell       National Track and Field Hall of Fame, United States Track and Field CCTA Hall of Fame
Lou Holtz                College Football Hall of Fame
Eddie Sutton           College Basketball Hall of Fame

[hobhog]

Meanwhile: tourney or bust?

[HognitiveDissonance]

Meanwhile: tourney or bust?

I will wait until after the season is over to give my opinion.