Some Folks (or schools) Never Learn....Baylor At It Again!

[Vantage 8 dude]

SIAP Apparently the folks at Baylor STILL don't get it.....or some people just never learn. It was announced today that a second member of the Baylor football program has been terminated for unacceptable personal behavior. Assistant Director For Football DeMarkco Butler, hired February 15th, was fired due to what has been described as having been engaged in "inappropriate text messaging" with a teenager (although under Texas law the teen was considered an adult). 

You may recall that earlier this year Strength Coach Brandon Washington was also terminated. He had been charged by police with being involved in a Waco-area prostitution ring.

[longtimeHogfan]

Several years ago Barry Switzer's Oklahoma team was another bunch out-of-control.  Back in the Brian Bosworth era they were up to their eyebrows in performance enhancing drugs, recreational drugs, hand guns, thugs.  Never heard of any sexual cover-ups like down at Waco just a lot of other stuff.  I suspect most of their fans were willing to overlook the accusations because they were on top of the pyramid beating the snot out of just about everybody.  The hits just seem to keep coming at Baylor.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Several years ago Barry Switzer's Oklahoma team was another bunch out-of-control.  Back in the Brian Bosworth era they were up to their eyebrows in performance enhancing drugs, recreational drugs, hand guns, thugs.  Never heard of any sexual cover-ups like down at Waco just a lot of other stuff.  I suspect most of their fans were willing to overlook the accusations because they were on top of the pyramid beating the snot out of just about everybody.  The hits just seem to keep coming at Baylor.

What's amazing to me is that most, if not all, of the "hits" are self-inflicted. As I said in the headlines, some people never learn. I honestly can't decide in this situation if this is a case of mere stupidity/arrogance or one or just not giving a darn. Won't be surprised if it's some of both.

[Tejano Jawg]

Being in Dallas—and in close proximity to Baylor—they seem to be in the news practically every day. For one thing or another, and this "teen/text" thing is the latest.

Interesting, because AFTER they wiped out all of the previous football coaching staff, they have already fired 2 NEW coaches.

[Razorbackers]

Being in Dallas—and in close proximity to Baylor—they seem to be in the news practically every day. For one thing or another, and this "teen/text" thing is the latest.

Interesting, because AFTER they wiped out all of the previous football coaching staff, they have already fired 2 NEW coaches.

Because the culture is absolutely TOXIC in Waco.

They need to shut it down for at least a year, and they needed to do it before they hired a new coach. It's not a recent thing. Athletes murder each other down there, man.

It's crazy that they still have a team, or that parents are letting their kids go there.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Because the culture is absolutely TOXIC in Waco.

They need to shut it down for at least a year, and they needed to do it before they hired a new coach. It's not a recent thing. Athletes murder each other down there, man.

It's crazy that they still have a team, or that parents are letting their kids go there.

And what's especially ironic is that all this comes from a (supposedly) religious-based school. Particularly galling.

[Inhogswetrust]

And what's especially ironic is that all this comes from a (supposedly) religious-based school. Particularly galling.

They were not as pure as they portrayed even when they were in the old SWC. 

[hawganatic]

What's amazing to me is that most, if not all, of the "hits" are self-inflicted. As I said in the headlines, some people never learn. I honestly can't decide in this situation if this is a case of mere stupidity/arrogance or one or just not giving a darn. Won't be surprised if it's some of both.

Not following the "never learn" line of thought.  If they didn't learn this would have been swept under the rug and the coach would still be on staff.  Looks to me like Baylor did learn and are removing the bad elements.

Although tighter background checks do appear to be in order.  Although that wouldn't have been useful if this coach didn't have any previous incidents.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Not following the "never learn" line of thought.  If they didn't learn this would have been swept under the rug and the coach would still be on staff.  Looks to me like Baylor did learn and are removing the bad elements.

Although tighter background checks do appear to be in order.  Although that wouldn't have been useful if this coach didn't have any previous incidents.

Good point about the taking care of the problem once its been spotted. However, considering it's the second issue that's come up since the start of the year, you have to wonder about their whole selection process. One other thing: apparently the good Baylor folks need to have a real "heart-to-heart" with any perspective hire concerning deportment expectations/standards.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Because the culture is absolutely TOXIC in Waco.

They need to shut it down for at least a year, and they needed to do it before they hired a new coach. It's not a recent thing. Athletes murder each other down there, man.

It's crazy that they still have a team, or that parents are letting their kids go there.

If you have dreams of playing D1 and Baylor is your only offer, youre gonna take a chance

[Pork Twain]

Burn that place to the ground

[Hog10S]

Several years ago Barry Switzer's Oklahoma team was another bunch out-of-control.  Back in the Brian Bosworth era they were up to their eyebrows in performance enhancing drugs, recreational drugs, hand guns, thugs.  Never heard of any sexual cover-ups like down at Waco just a lot of other stuff.  I suspect most of their fans were willing to overlook the accusations because they were on top of the pyramid beating the snot out of just about everybody.  The hits just seem to keep coming at Baylor.

I was at OU during that time period and there wasn't any sex cover-ups.  Although Marcus Dupre had a wreck one night while receiving some "relief" from a college female while he was driving.  The problem at OU was (i) they would go out in the athletic dorm parking lot at night and fire their guns in the air and (ii) they would call various pizza places and once they pizza's were delivered, just shut the door in their face or they would have someone in the parking lot waiting and when they delivered one pizza, they would steal all the others in the car.  It got to where no pizza place would deliver to the athletic dorms before the Spring semester was over. 

Berry, believe it or not, ran a fairly tight ship.  Too many football players had academic issues one year so the next year no TV's or refrigerators were allowed in the athletic dorms.  He figured they were just sitting in their dorm rooms eating and watching tv and so he could at least control their tv time by having one location to watch and that got turned off at 10pm Sun-Thur. night.  There were no cell phones or other ways to do much after that, without getting into trouble and Berry sent coaches over to do bed checks after 10pm to ensure they were in their rooms.  They all lived in the athletic dorms back then, so they could keep track of them (and they would, at least during the season).

[bennyl08]

Not following the "never learn" line of thought.  If they didn't learn this would have been swept under the rug and the coach would still be on staff.  Looks to me like Baylor did learn and are removing the bad elements.

Although tighter background checks do appear to be in order.  Although that wouldn't have been useful if this coach didn't have any previous incidents.

I'd amend the "never learn" to "didn't learn the right lesson". 

It's like a person who is very sick from eating spoiled and rotten food. They finally learned to throw away the food after it makes them sick, but haven't learned how to not consume food that makes them sick in the first place.

[hogsanity]

Baylor is the poster child for what happens when you adopt a win at all cost mentality.

[hawganatic]

Good point about the taking care of the problem once its been spotted. However, considering it's the second issue that's come up since the start of the year, you have to wonder about their whole selection process. One other thing: apparently the good Baylor folks need to have a real "heart-to-heart" with any perspective hire concerning deportment expectations/standards.

I don't think a heart to heart is going to address the issue.  Nobody is going to admit to texting with a teenager unless they are caught, and telling somebody to not act in this manner isn't going to stop them.  They already know it's wrong.

I don't know anything about this coach, but unless there were previous incidents/behavior that would have been caught through a stringent background check, I don't know what else Baylor could have done.  Now if they aren't running proper background checks, then that is a different argument all together.

[Pork Twain]

Good point about the taking care of the problem once its been spotted. However, considering it's the second issue that's come up since the start of the year, you have to wonder about their whole selection process. One other thing: apparently the good Baylor folks need to have a real "heart-to-heart" with any perspective hire concerning deportment expectations/standards.

To be fair, you did say that the "folks at Baylor" never learn.  I took that to mean individuals were still doing dumb things that would lead to them getting fired, not that Baylor, an object that cannot learn or unlearn anything, was doing something dumb.

[Vantage 8 dude]

To be fair, you did say that the "folks at Baylor" never learn.  I took that to mean individuals were still doing dumb things that would lead to them getting fired, not that Baylor, an object that cannot learn or unlearn anything, was doing something dumb.

Would hope that latter point would have been self-evident; obviously an inanimate object is incapable of learning/doing anything. When one discusses any organization, school or whatnot we're obviously referring to the folks who are associated with it.

[Mo_Better_Hogs]

Because the culture is absolutely TOXIC in Waco.

They need to shut it down for at least a year, and they needed to do it before they hired a new coach. It's not a recent thing. Athletes murder each other down there, man.

It's crazy that they still have a team, or that parents are letting their kids go there.

I've been hearing about a new documentary about this basketball incident. How dark. I'm sure this won't do anything to help Baylor recover from their more-than-tarnished image.

On their football situation, it certainly is a strange coincidence when their new staff is having problems not totally un-related to their old problems---regarding women/girls. It's not like one of the recent firings was because a coach had a bad gambling problem.

[Pork Twain]

Would hope that latter point would have been self-evident; obviously an inanimate object is incapable of learning/doing anything. When one discusses any organization, school or whatnot we're obviously referring to the folks who are associated with it.

My thoughts as well, but some did not get the memo. 

[Razorbackers]

I've been hearing about a new documentary about this basketball incident. How dark. I'm sure this won't do anything to help Baylor recover from their more-than-tarnished image.

On their football situation, it certainly is a strange coincidence when their new staff is having problems not totally un-related to their old problems---regarding women/girls. It's not like one of the recent firings was because a coach had a bad gambling problem.

They brought in Ian McCaw as AD after the murder and cover up in 2003 to help clear away the mess. Instead he created the most violent and toxic atmosphere in an athletic department that we've maybe ever seen.

[Inhogswetrust]

They brought in Ian McCaw as AD after the murder and cover up in 2003 to help clear away the mess. Instead he created the most violent and toxic atmosphere in an athletic department that we've maybe ever seen.

Here's a shocker............................he was then hired by none other than Liberty University.

[Razorbackers]

Here's a shocker............................he was then hired by none other than Liberty University.

Not gonna touch that one lol.

[jesterzzn]

My boss played for Baylor during their "glory" years.  I love to send him these stories.  =)

[Vantage 8 dude]

My boss played for Baylor during their "glory" years.  I love to send him these stories.  =)

I'm assuming of course that you have a good STRONG relationship with him AND he has a very good sense of humor

[Inhogswetrust]

"Us against the world" can work until you lose perspective.

Baylor became very insular, very Machiavellian and very shortcut in regaining the status they wanted.

It was a house of cards and the bill came due. At least they didn't get Smile.

Wacko and insane to compare hiring Smile to all the stinking rotten filth that has permeated out of Waco.

[Inhogswetrust]

You miss the point: Smile would be a kind result.

Then I misunderstood your post and point. My apologies.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Great to see that everyone on here today is playing "nice".

[tusksincolorado]

And what's especially ironic is that all this comes from a (supposedly) religious-based school. Particularly galling.

Silly Baptists....

[Hawgar The Horrible]

Silly Baptists....

Be careful.

[Pork Twain]

Silly Baptists....

You must be mistaken, those that are extremely religious do not do bad things.  Obviously these were wolves... 

[goodguytex]

You must be mistaken, those that are extremely religious do not do bad things.  Obviously these were wolves... 

Pork, Christians sin just like anyone else. We just try to learn from it, repent, be contrite and try to correct our behavior which often doesn't work. But we keep struggling and trying to do better... Be better. Looks like the Baylor folks are CINO...They don't try to go after players and coaches that actually do build character. Bielema is a perfect example of someone in charge of a program that tries to do those things.

We hear the term uncommon thrown around a lot. But you see that being acted upon by everyone from the coaches down to the training staff.

They don't push Christianity on the kids to show they are uncommon. They actually just go for impressing on these kids that they represent the University of Arkansas, and they sure better not tarnish that name they represent or there will be very real consequences.

Baylor should send their entire coaching staff to the UofA and learn a thing or 2 from our staff and our program.

[bennyl08]

Pork, Christians sin just like anyone else. We just try to learn from it, repent, be contrite and try to correct our behavior which often doesn't work. But we keep struggling and trying to do better... Be better. Looks like the Baylor folks are CINO...They don't try to go after players and coaches that actually do build character. Bielema is a perfect example of someone in charge of a program that tries to do those things.

We hear the term uncommon thrown around a lot. But you see that being acted upon by everyone from the coaches down to the training staff.

They don't push Christianity on the kids to show they are uncommon. They actually just go for impressing on these kids that they represent the University of Arkansas, and they sure better not tarnish that name they represent or there will be very real consequences.

Baylor should send their entire coaching staff to the UofA and learn a thing or 2 from our staff and our program.

Ease up, Francis. It was a lighthearted joke. I understand that your beliefs were on the butt end of that joke, but there isn't a single religion of belief that isn't made fun of each and every day. At some point, you just have to learn to be able to laugh at yourself. Life's too short to either get upset or feel the need to correct a joke.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Pork, Christians sin just like anyone else. We just try to learn from it, repent, be contrite and try to correct our behavior which often doesn't work. But we keep struggling and trying to do better... Be better. Looks like the Baylor folks are CINO...They don't try to go after players and coaches that actually do build character. Bielema is a perfect example of someone in charge of a program that tries to do those things.

We hear the term uncommon thrown around a lot. But you see that being acted upon by everyone from the coaches down to the training staff.

They don't push Christianity on the kids to show they are uncommon. They actually just go for impressing on these kids that they represent the University of Arkansas, and they sure better not tarnish that name they represent or there will be very real consequences.

Baylor should send their entire coaching staff to the UofA and learn a thing or 2 from our staff and our program.

The way things have unfolded down in Wacko I'm not sure even a dozen trips to the Hill would be sufficient for the Baylor staff to begin learning the first thing about running a program the way it should be. These guys appear to be "dim lightbulbs" when it comes to certain areas of brain matter.

[logic]

They were not as pure as they portrayed even when they were in the old SWC. 

Baylor was nice to visiting team fans in the old SWC.  Although Arkansas gave visiting fans poor seats, Baylor gave visiting teams fans very good seats like 20 to 40 yard line seats.

[southeasthog]

Baylor was nice to visiting team fans in the old SWC.  Although Arkansas gave visiting fans poor seats, Baylor gave visiting teams fans very good seats like 20 to 40 yard line seats.

They had to get their attendance numbers up somehow.

[Inhogswetrust]

Baylor was nice to visiting team fans in the old SWC.  Although Arkansas gave visiting fans poor seats, Baylor gave visiting teams fans very good seats like 20 to 40 yard line seats.

When you don't have enough fans to fill them yourself then that can happen. Especially when anyone can walk up at kickoff and still get a sideline seat. It wasn't about how nice they thought they should be it was about filling seats. Also after they started to cover the end zone with tarps at their old stadium they had to see those to opponents.

[longpig]

Here's a shocker............................he was then hired by none other than Liberty University.

Liberty University and Patrick Henry College.  Two of the finest higher institutions of brainwashing. 

[goodguytex]

Ease up, Francis. It was a lighthearted joke. I understand that your beliefs were on the butt end of that joke, but there isn't a single religion of belief that isn't made fun of each and every day. At some point, you just have to learn to be able to laugh at yourself. Life's too short to either get upset or feel the need to correct a joke.

My name isn't Francis! 

[goodguytex]

The way things have unfolded down in Wacko I'm not sure even a dozen trips to the Hill would be sufficient for the Baylor staff to begin learning the first thing about running a program the way it should be. These guys appear to be "dim lightbulbs" when it comes to certain areas of brain matter.

What they need is a complete sanitized house cleaning of the leadership up there seems like to me. Then bring in a new AD, new attitude. New way of doing business.

[goodguytex]

Liberty University and Patrick Henry College.  Two of the finest higher institutions of brainwashing.

Like no brainwashing is happening at other major universities? You can't be serious, right?

[Inhogswetrust]

Liberty University and Patrick Henry College.  Two of the finest higher institutions of brainwashing. 

Don't forget about Bob Jones University!

[Inhogswetrust]

Like no brainwashing is happening at other major universities? You can't be serious, right?

Lighten up he was joking. BUT he easily could have been serious. It's OK to joke about religion and religious schools and any other type school for that matter. And before you jump on me about it you might need got know I was raised as a Baptist.

[Inhogswetrust]

My name isn't Francis! 

Maybe it should be.

[Inhogswetrust]

What they need is a complete sanitized house cleaning of the leadership up there seems like to me. Then bring in a new AD, new attitude. New way of doing business.

As a private school I doubt they want to change the way they do business.

[goodguytex]

As a private school I doubt they want to change the way they do business.

If they are going to call themselves a Christian institution, maybe they should so they can at least try to reflect that. Otherwise just be a secular university. Nothing wrong with that either.

Liberty university was mentioned... They have a variety of sports. You won't see scandals like that happening to their institution. Why? Because they don't do business that way.

[goodguytex]

Lighten up he was joking. BUT he easily could have been serious. It's OK to joke about religion and religious schools and any other type school for that matter. And before you jump on me about it you might need got know I was raised as a Baptist.

Just FYI, just because I happen to respond to something that's BS with a comment doesn't mean I'm not lightened up, am angry or being serious. Just means I'm giving a response to a BS statement. I'm plenty lightened up and happy. But nice to k ow you care so much. 😀

[Inhogswetrust]

If they are going to call themselves a Christian institution, maybe they should so they can at least try to reflect that. Otherwise just be a secular university. Nothing wrong with that either.

Liberty university was mentioned... They have a variety of sports. You won't see scandals like that happening to their institution. Why? Because they don't do business that way.

Of course they should BUT as a religious institution they don't have any incentive/reason/motivation/rationale for changing how they do business at the top levels at least. ANY university that hires people can have a scandal. Just because the Administration at Liberty might handle it differently doesn't mean someone there couldn't cause a scandal. My wife's Matron of Honor in our wedding graduated from Baylor. She saw it there.

[goodguytex]

Of course they should BUT as a religious institution they don't have any incentive/reason/motivation/rationale for changing how they do business at the top levels at least. ANY university that hires people can have a scandal. Just because the Administration at Liberty might handle it differently doesn't mean someone there couldn't cause a scandal.

Stuff like scandals of the sort going on at Baylor happen when leadership doesn't do due diligence in who they hire. Which is why stuff like that hasn't happened at Liberty. Of course it's possible it could, but chances go way down when leadership are very discerning in who they hire. It can happen at Arkansas too and did with petrino. But then steps were taken to try to make sure there wasn't a repeat occurance. That happens with good leadership. Which Baylor must not have.

[Inhogswetrust]

Just FYI, just because I happen to respond to something that's BS with a comment doesn't mean I'm not lightened up, am angry or being serious. Just means I'm giving a response to a BS statement. I'm plenty lightened up and happy. But nice to k ow you care so much. 😀

Interesting that someone thinks that a form of brainwashing doesn't occur in religious institutions including colleges. Some people think that religious "indoctrination" IS a form of brainwashing. So even though I believe he was joking in his post I do think it happens. Yes I have also seen it happen on secular campuses.

FYI I was raised in a Baptist church and saw it. Not in a "radical sense deprivation" way but more of a methodical one.

[goodguytex]

Interesting that someone thinks that a form of brainwashing doesn't occur in religious institutions including colleges. Some people think that religious "indoctrination" IS a form of brainwashing. So even though I believe he was joking in his post I do think it happens. Yes I have also seen it happen on secular campuses.

The BS in his statement was singling out Christian universities for brainwashing. There's indoctrination that goes on to some degree at every university or college.