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Author Topic: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass  (Read 2259 times)

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RebelW

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #50 on: March 10, 2017, 07:26:14 am »

Won't be surprised if Roesler moves to Middle and does very well.  Reason being he's salty and is the guy players go to with questions, as is Richardson in the back, and he may lack the ranginess the hybrid outside requires.
Are we talking about the same Richardson? I'm taking about the new JUCO. 240 lbs. DE/LB
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #51 on: March 10, 2017, 07:50:57 am »

Another player to remember that a lot of folks aren't talking about is one of Taylor's JC teammates at Riverside.  He will come in and see time immediately.  JC All American Melvin Johnson.  The article is from December before he signed.  Solid player.

https://www.seccountry.com/arkansas/arkansas-dl-target-melvin-johnson-named-junior-college-american/amp

I'll be interested to see where they position some players. Of course you are going to see and hear more about that than any of us as that progresses.

I'm sure that they have some that they already know where they are going to play but with this transition, I wonder if there isn't going to be others that they have moving inside/outside back to inside or back to outside, trying to find the best and most productive spot for everyone in this 3-4?
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longpig

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #52 on: March 10, 2017, 08:56:17 am »

Are we talking about the same Richardson? I'm taking about the new JUCO. 240 lbs. DE/LB

I was referring to Kevin Richardson in the secondary.

"in the back"
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Pillowhead Jackson

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #53 on: March 10, 2017, 01:53:53 pm »

I think one if the pros of having Mike at strong side OLB is his experience at DE and the ability to take on blockers. He gave the tackles fits last year while on scout team.  He would be excellent against the run, but as a DE he hasn't been out in coverage much at all.  The zone concepts in the videos above would definitely benefit him in the learning process.

I thought you meant strong side inside LB

we are flipping the OLB's strong and weak?
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Pillowhead Jackson

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #54 on: March 10, 2017, 02:03:22 pm »

i.e., that's fine as long as we don't allow offensive shifts to send us scrambling all over the field before the snap of the ball
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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #55 on: March 10, 2017, 02:33:57 pm »

Ramsey WOLB, Taylor SOLB, Harris ILB and Eugene ILB (due to Greenlaw being out).

Agim and Roesler at DE and Bijohn at NG.

Corners: Pulley and Tolliver
Safeties: Liddell and Ramirez

There will be changes as things progress, but this is who is doing drills with the ones as of now.
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #56 on: March 10, 2017, 03:32:08 pm »

i.e., that's fine as long as we don't allow offensive shifts to send us scrambling all over the field before the snap of the ball

Watch the film that is provided. You don't see a lot of "scrambling all over the field", you just see normal movement of a defensive unit in response to what the offense is presenting and responsibilities of players on each side of the field can change to a degree with that movement. The videos explain all of that provided of course, that this is how Rhoads teaches the 3-4.
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Pillowhead Jackson

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #57 on: March 12, 2017, 11:33:19 am »

Watch the film that is provided. You don't see a lot of "scrambling all over the field", you just see normal movement of a defensive unit in response to what the offense is presenting and responsibilities of players on each side of the field can change to a degree with that movement. The videos explain all of that provided of course, that this is how Rhoads teaches the 3-4.

I don't need to watch the film. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

If you flip OLB's (in the 3-4) or defensive ends (in the 4-3), "strong and weak", you get last second "oh crap" adjustments, with ends or OLB's running around like keystone cops before the snap of the ball, because of offensive shifts. If you didn't notice that under Willy Rob and Robb Smith both, I can't help you.

If you play them straight "right and left", you don't have to worry about that. Not sure why you are intent on butchering conversation because you don't understand what's being talked about.

The Patriots for example: our very own Trey Flowers is a "right defensive end" in the 4-3. He's not "strong or weak" - Matt Patricia has them lined up and ready to roll regardless of any presnap shifting by the offense.

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FANONTHEHILL

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #58 on: March 12, 2017, 11:50:58 am »

I don't need to watch the film. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

If you flip OLB's (in the 3-4) or defensive ends (in the 4-3), "strong and weak", you get last second "oh crap" adjustments, with ends or OLB's running around like keystone cops before the snap of the ball, because of offensive shifts. If you didn't notice that under Willy Rob and Robb Smith both, I can't help you.

If you play them straight "right and left", you don't have to worry about that. Not sure why you are intent on butchering conversation because you don't understand what's being talked about.

The Patriots for example: our very own Trey Flowers is a "right defensive end" in the 4-3. He's not "strong or weak" - Matt Patricia has them lined up and ready to roll regardless of any presnap shifting by the offense.



The patriots actually run a 4-3, 3-4, and a 4-2-5.  When the base defense failed and they fell behind in the Superbowl in the first half, Trey was moved inside to a 1, 3, or shade nose depending on strong side.  They don't shift side to side, but they do flex (slide) ends or OLBs to the strong side to keep outside leverage.  Here's a nice article about their defensive packages that I read last October.  Patrica is a heck of a tactician.

http://nesn.com/2016/10/patriots-multiple-alignments-are-keeping-all-front-seven-defenders-happy/amp/
« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 12:32:42 pm by FANONTHEHILL »
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #59 on: March 12, 2017, 11:55:04 am »

I don't need to watch the film. Sorry if that hurts your feelings.

If you flip OLB's (in the 3-4) or defensive ends (in the 4-3), "strong and weak", you get last second "oh crap" adjustments, with ends or OLB's running around like keystone cops before the snap of the ball, because of offensive shifts. If you didn't notice that under Willy Rob and Robb Smith both, I can't help you.

If you play them straight "right and left", you don't have to worry about that. Not sure why you are intent on butchering conversation because you don't understand what's being talked about.

The Patriots for example: our very own Trey Flowers is a "right defensive end" in the 4-3. He's not "strong or weak" - Matt Patricia has them lined up and ready to roll regardless of any presnap shifting by the offense.



Doesn't hurt my feelings, it just leaves you lacking in knowledge of how the 3-4 that they speak of, shifts responsibilities when the offense moves people around. If you don't want to know, that's fine. Never mind that it would answer many of your questions and misconceptions.
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Pillowhead Jackson

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2017, 12:01:12 pm »

Doesn't hurt my feelings, it just leaves you lacking in knowledge of how the 3-4 that they speak of, shifts responsibilities when the offense moves people around. If you don't want to know, that's fine. Never mind that it would answer many of your questions and misconceptions.

LOL!

gotcha  :D
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woodrow hog call

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2017, 09:01:39 pm »

Doesn't hurt my feelings, it just leaves you lacking in knowledge of how the 3-4 that they speak of, shifts responsibilities when the offense moves people around. If you don't want to know, that's fine. Never mind that it would answer many of your questions and misconceptions.


Some would prefer to remain firmly planted in bliss rather than try to actually understand the scheme possibilities.
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Pillowhead Jackson

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #62 on: March 13, 2017, 10:03:21 am »

anyway, if the prototype NFL OLB is around 250 pounds, give or take, I think Randy Ramsey should be close to a college level prototype - he could easily be a 250 pounder in the NFL in a few years and probably still be sleek

Will be interesting to see if he stays in on nickle packages as a coverage guy, or even slides down to a 5 to be a fast rush guy

Wish we had 2 or 3 Randy's - hope this is his breakout year
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Pillowhead Jackson

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #63 on: March 13, 2017, 10:05:18 am »

ricepig, when are you going to get us a spring roster?

you're falling down on the job
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OneTuskOverTheLine™

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #64 on: March 14, 2017, 01:04:52 pm »

check his tape

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/10655

 Dang man.!! That dude KNOWS how to read Rush vs Pass vs PA Pass soooo dang well.!! I bet he just freaking smells where the guy with the ball is.
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Pillowhead Jackson

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #65 on: March 15, 2017, 09:13:58 am »

Dang man.!! That dude KNOWS how to read Rush vs Pass vs PA Pass soooo dang well.!! I bet he just freaking smells where the guy with the ball is.

yes he does!  :D

also lined up at linebacker 90% of the time!  :D

guess what that makes him? A linebacker!  :D
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #66 on: March 15, 2017, 12:52:07 pm »

yes he does!  :D

also lined up at linebacker 90% of the time!  :D

guess what that makes him? A linebacker!  :D

He is very quick in his tape and looks like a heat-seeking missile. I'd like to see what he looks like when he encounters more blocks from better athletes and has to traverse that traffic in the process. With his height, if that remains constant, he may not be able to carry a lot more weight than what he does now and remain as effective. I could see him as a walked-up Safety in a 3-4. May not be able to carry the weight needed for a true LB in the SEC in a 3-4 concept. We will see. High School is one thing, college football in general and the SEC more specifically, is another thing altogether. Looks like a great athlete though.
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Stephen Greene

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #67 on: March 15, 2017, 01:40:42 pm »

He is very quick in his tape and looks like a heat-seeking missile. I'd like to see what he looks like when he encounters more blocks from better athletes and has to traverse that traffic in the process. With his height, if that remains constant, he may not be able to carry a lot more weight than what he does now and remain as effective. I could see him as a walked-up Safety in a 3-4. May not be able to carry the weight needed for a true LB in the SEC in a 3-4 concept. We will see. High School is one thing, college football in general and the SEC more specifically, is another thing altogether. Looks like a great athlete though.

he's basically the same size frame Dre was when he came in

"walked up safety" is not a position. You're either a safety (who can certainly walk up), or you're not.

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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #68 on: March 15, 2017, 02:12:46 pm »

he's basically the same size frame Dre was when he came in

"walked up safety" is not a position. You're either a safety (who can certainly walk up), or you're not.



Well there is certainly a walked up Safety at times in a 3-4, but yes, the name of their position is Safety nonetheless. Obviously, it is situational. I'm just speculating that he might be a better fit at Safety, but I've got a good feeling that the coaching staff will determine the best place to play him no matter what any of us think.
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Stephen Greene

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #69 on: March 15, 2017, 03:10:42 pm »

Well there is certainly a walked up Safety at times in a 3-4, but yes, the name of their position is Safety nonetheless. Obviously, it is situational. I'm just speculating that he might be a better fit at Safety, but I've got a good feeling that the coaching staff will determine the best place to play him no matter what any of us think.

correct - we agree
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #70 on: March 15, 2017, 04:21:43 pm »

correct - we agree

Happy to hear that.
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arkansasboy66

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3-4 Defense
« Reply #71 on: April 10, 2017, 05:19:02 pm »

I know I am not the coach this is just my opinion folks... Last year our rush defense was absolutely terrible... I don't really understand how a 3-4 defense is gunna help that... The SEC is full of great running backs and i just think the 3-4 defense is going to get shredded against a power running offense... Asking linebackers to fill gaps and take on big offensive lineman is asking a lot. And now we are asking Michael Taylor to learn pass coverage as a outside linebacker and learn how to cover tight ends and slot receivers... A lot of you are going to rip me for this post but I am just really worried about our rush defense... I hope I am wrong
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MuskogeeHogFan

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Re: The 3-4 Defense Vs. The Run & Pass
« Reply #72 on: April 10, 2017, 05:52:29 pm »

I know I am not the coach this is just my opinion folks... Last year our rush defense was absolutely terrible... I don't really understand how a 3-4 defense is gunna help that... The SEC is full of great running backs and i just think the 3-4 defense is going to get shredded against a power running offense... Asking linebackers to fill gaps and take on big offensive lineman is asking a lot. And now we are asking Michael Taylor to learn pass coverage as a outside linebacker and learn how to cover tight ends and slot receivers... A lot of you are going to rip me for this post but I am just really worried about our rush defense... I hope I am wrong

Go back to the original post, scroll down and look at some of those videos. That will help explain what is supposed to happen and how you can stop the run. One of the videos keys in on that very thing, the 3-4 vs. The Run. No one should rip you for merely asking a question.
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