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Author Topic: NFL Combine Thread  (Read 8543 times)

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bulldog04

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #100 on: March 04, 2017, 03:51:31 pm »

Sprinkle ran a 4.63 40 unofficially and 4.69 officially
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #101 on: March 04, 2017, 03:54:01 pm »

Jeremy Sprinkle
4.69 forty: May seem like a slower time relative to others this year, but that is in fact a very good forty time for a TE. For comparison, Gronkowski ran a 4.68 at his pro day, and people are typically a bit faster at their home turf than the notoriously slow combine turf. Not quite a Graham or a Olsen level fast, you don't need that much speed to be very good. Engram is practically a glorified receiver.
bench: N/a for every TE? Okay, saw where Walterfootball listed the reps, NFL.com is really dropping the ball this year, but still, nothing listed for Sprinkle. Sad.
Vert: 29", not the best. Hopefully he tries again at the pro day. Now, he is a bit faster than quick, but would be nice to get that into the 30's at least.
broad: 9'8". Solid number. Not going to move you up, but won't move you down either.
3-cone: n/a for anybody
shuttle: n/a for anybody
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #102 on: March 04, 2017, 04:00:09 pm »

Side note: Holy crap Bucky Hodges, TE from VT made himself some money today. He tested like a 210 pound receiver, but Engram, this guy is 6'6 257 pounds. That we held him to 5 catches for 51 yards is pretty impressive in hindsight I feel.
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #103 on: March 04, 2017, 04:03:40 pm »

Wow I thought Keon was faster than that. He was supposed to be our fastest starting WR.

Reed is the fastest player we have had on our team and I'm including Dmac. However, speed isn't everything.

Also, Cornelius is obviously the fastest of Morgan and Hatcher. Though I figured Hatcher to be in the high 4.5's rather than mid-low 4.6's.
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #104 on: March 04, 2017, 04:13:04 pm »


Backs than can take punishment and just be consistent with getting positive yards are way more valuable than  just speed.

For sure. A back with the quickness and vision to get 5-7 yards consistently is much better than one who can turn a 30 yard run into an 80. The former is something that happens every carry more or less while the latter isn't guaranteed to happen even once a game.

However, if you can find a back that can do both, it is ideal. That's the difference between having something like a healthy Greg Childs vs a healthy Keon Hatcher. Both were good at the play to play dirty work, but Greg also provided the big play that Hatcher didn't.
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Jackrabbit Hog

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #105 on: March 04, 2017, 04:16:23 pm »

Ross just ran a 4.22

Tanner English running backwards beat that.
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longpig

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #106 on: March 04, 2017, 05:12:11 pm »

Was there an Einstein Rosen bridge present? Sheesh...

 ;D
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #107 on: March 04, 2017, 05:12:52 pm »

Ledbetter: 29 reps on the bench press. Very impressive.

Wise Jr: 22 reps. With tied for longest arms, at least on the DL, that is very good as well. Ledbetter has pretty long for that matter as well.

Ellis: 18 reps. Towards the lower end, but still solid.
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atekido

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #108 on: March 04, 2017, 05:15:38 pm »

Reed is the fastest player we have had on our team and I'm including Dmac. However, speed isn't everything.

Also, Cornelius is obviously the fastest of Morgan and Hatcher. Though I figured Hatcher to be in the high 4.5's rather than mid-low 4.6's.


nope.
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factchecker

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #109 on: March 04, 2017, 05:25:47 pm »

Reed is the fastest player we have had on our team and I'm including Dmac. However, speed isn't everything.

Reed was the fastest that played.  Jordan Jones might faster (if possible).
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tophawg19

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #110 on: March 04, 2017, 05:35:43 pm »

check Eric Hawkins numbers . fantastic track guy . poor hands for a WR . He was reported at 4.23 in texas meet
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Peter Porker

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #111 on: March 04, 2017, 05:41:35 pm »

The fastest players we've ever had on our team are neither McFadden, nor Reed.

Michael Grant was probably faster than them. David Gordon probably was. Eric Hawkins perhaps.

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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #112 on: March 04, 2017, 05:42:34 pm »

check Eric Hawkins numbers . fantastic track guy . poor hands for a WR . He was reported at 4.23 in texas meet

Yeah, he came to mind as well. We also had a blazing speed corner a while back who was a track star but never really saw the field. I'm going to take some of factchecker's post and ammend mine to fastest who had a decent amount of playing time.

Reed was the fastest that played.  Jordan Jones might faster (if possible).

4.55 forty time. Laser timed at Sparq.

Come on factchecker. Also, his video looks like a 4.5 player.

http://www.hudl.com/profile/2199831/jordan-jones
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #113 on: March 04, 2017, 05:45:28 pm »

The fastest players we've ever had on our team are neither McFadden, nor Reed.

Michael Grant was probably faster than them. David Gordon probably was. Eric Hawkins perhaps.

Gordon was who I was thinking of as the corner. Thanks.

Dmac's combine: 4.33 with a 1.51 10 yard split
Grant: 4.39 forty with a 1.50 split. He was a hundredth of a second faster at 10 yards, but 6 hundredths slower at 40  yards.
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Peter Porker

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #114 on: March 04, 2017, 05:57:39 pm »

Gordon was who I was thinking of as the corner. Thanks.

Dmac's combine: 4.33 with a 1.51 10 yard split
Grant: 4.39 forty with a 1.50 split. He was a hundredth of a second faster at 10 yards, but 6 hundredths slower at 40  yards.

David Gordon is a preacher now btw.
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #115 on: March 04, 2017, 06:06:51 pm »

David Gordon is a preacher now btw.

Shame on you. Lobbing me a softball to make a great good, but offensive joke.
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factchecker

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #116 on: March 04, 2017, 06:10:41 pm »


Come on factchecker. Also, his video looks like a 4.5 player.

http://www.hudl.com/profile/2199831/jordan-jones

Some of the players have said Jordan is legit.  I think it was Morgan who said he thought Jordan could beat Reed at a race.

Maybe Jordan just runs cleaner routes and gets open faster.  I'm not sure. I guess we will see next season.
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #117 on: March 04, 2017, 06:19:39 pm »

Some of the players have said Jordan is legit.  I think it was Morgan who said he thought Jordan could beat Reed at a race.

Maybe Jordan just runs cleaner routes and gets open faster.  I'm not sure. I guess we will see next season.

Don't get me wrong, my NFL comp for Jones is Amari Cooper. Not quite the athletic beast of a Julio Jones, but still a high quality athlete who is just super crisp and clean as a route runner.

Jordan Jones, IMO, is a WR1 at the next level if he develops properly. However, no, he isn't a blazing speed player. However, as has been pointed out before, you don't have to run a 4.3 or so to be fast.

I did find this from a fall scrimmage report

Quote
— Jordan Jones has had the best day of the young WRs. Now that he's healthy, it's clear why the coaching staff is so high on him. He's long, has routinely used his speed to get behind DBs and has shown off pretty good hands and the ability to go ge the ball. He's been a favorite target of Cole Kelley today. Will be interesting to see if he gets added looks against Louisiana Tech if Dominique Reed can't go. — JC
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tophawg19

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #118 on: March 04, 2017, 06:25:38 pm »

yep a dude named Jerry Rice ran mid 4.6's and Steve Largent was even slower but both were masters at getting open
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factchecker

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #119 on: March 04, 2017, 06:27:00 pm »

Jordan Jones, IMO, is a WR1 at the next level if he develops properly. However, no, he isn't a blazing speed player. However, as has been pointed out before, you don't have to run a 4.3 or so to be fast.

You are correct.

I think Drew Morgan proves that speed is only important when it's functional.  If you don't know where to line up - if you don't know your route - if you can't get open - if you refuse to put in the effort to get open or come back to the ball - if you don't catch and hold on to the ball----- then all that speed is worthless.

Drew had some important intangibles = heart and smart.  He found ways to get open, he ran clean routes, and he fought for the extra yard.  Whoever gives Drew a shot will get a steal.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2017, 06:38:56 pm by factchecker »
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tophawg19

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #120 on: March 04, 2017, 06:30:46 pm »

i agree and see Drew in a Was Welker type role where route running skill is more important than speed . just move the sticks
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Peter Porker

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #121 on: March 04, 2017, 06:49:33 pm »

Shame on you. Lobbing me a softball to make a great good, but offensive joke.

Not a joke.
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #122 on: March 05, 2017, 11:59:55 am »

Deatrich Wise Jr:
4.92 combine, 1.70 split. He plays a lot faster than that on tape. Of note, his 10 yard split is faster than most other players similar to him in forty time.
vert: 33", this is very good for players his size. 10th overall, but several ahead of him are much lighter than him.
broad: 10'5", I mean damn. What these last two numbers indicate is that yeah, his top end speed isn't great, but this guy can't fly on a plane because he is too explosive. He's 6th among DL, and 2 of the guys ahead of him are 20+ pounds lighter.
7.07 3-cone
4.36 shuttle

Jeremiah Ledbetter
4.84 forty, 1.72 split. This is pretty good for a 280 pound guy. Though less explosive than Wise in those first 10 yards.
32.5" vert, like Wise, this is very good, and shows explosion.
9'5" broad, a full short shorter than Wise. However, this is still a good number. Puts him in the middle of the pack.
7.55 3-cone
4.56 shuttle

Brooks Ellis:
29.5" vert, That's a decent jump, but the last of the  pack right  now and compare that to the two DL players above. He's 30-40 pounds lighter than them too.
9'7" broad jump. This is less than you want it, but not terrible.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2017, 02:31:12 pm by bennyl08 »
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #123 on: March 05, 2017, 12:56:48 pm »

For some comparisons

Martrell Spaight: 6' 236
4.88 forty (1.71 split) @ combine, 4.82 (1.64) @ proday
25 reps bench
35" vert
10' broad (9'6" @ proday)
shuttle: n/a
3-cone: 7.66 @ combine, 7.10 @ proday

Trey Flowers 6'2 266
4.93 forty (1.73 split) @ combine, 4.85 (1.64) @ proday
28 reps bench
36.5" vert
10'1" broad
4.4 shuttle
3-cone: 7.34 @ combine, 7.26 @ pro day

Darius Philon 6'1 298
5.0 forty (1.78) @ combine, 4.94 (1.64) @ proday
26 reps bench
31" vert
8'11" broad
4.75 shuttle @ proday
8.0s 3-cone @ combine, 7.53 @ proday
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #124 on: March 05, 2017, 12:58:27 pm »

So, Wise is very much on pace to show he is an even better athlete than Flowers was relative to the combine. Remains to be seen if he can improve at the pro day like Flowers did, but our surface is much faster, so it is likely.
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #125 on: March 05, 2017, 01:04:25 pm »

Brooks just ran an unofficial 4.80. That's better than I expected. However, his straight line speed wasn't what I was worried about. It's his 3cone and shuttle.
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NotSoFastMyFriend

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #126 on: March 05, 2017, 02:14:48 pm »

lol @ "Jones looks like a 4.5 guy"

Jarvis Landry ran a 4.51 at his pro day (4.65 at the NFL combine) and he's tied with OBJ for most receptions by a WR in the 1st three years of a career (288). Some of you "speed is the most important thing" guys need to pound sand. You're way off.
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #127 on: March 05, 2017, 02:47:14 pm »

lol @ "Jones looks like a 4.5 guy"

Jarvis Landry ran a 4.51 at his pro day (4.65 at the NFL combine) and he's tied with OBJ for most receptions by a WR in the 1st three years of a career (288). Some of you "speed is the most important thing" guys need to pound sand. You're way off.

?

Very confused here. You seem to be referring to my post on Jones looking like he runs a 4.5 speed but then you rightfully lambast people who think speed is the most important thing which has nothing to do with me.

If this post is directed at me, I find it very ironic. Simultaneously posting that speed isn't the most important thing and viewing a statement that somebody isn't the fastest out there as an insult to that player.
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NotSoFastMyFriend

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #128 on: March 05, 2017, 03:24:18 pm »

?

Very confused here. You seem to be referring to my post on Jones looking like he runs a 4.5 speed but then you rightfully lambast people who think speed is the most important thing which has nothing to do with me.

If this post is directed at me, I find it very ironic. Simultaneously posting that speed isn't the most important thing and viewing a statement that somebody isn't the fastest out there as an insult to that player.
Ok, so I did get my wires a little twisted here. I had two lines of thought going and merged them in the worst way so apologies to you.

To clarify, I think Jones is one of the fastest guys on the team and that speed is important but that it isn't THE one most important thing that any one player at any one position needs to have.

Definitely no disrespect to Jones or you intended. I'll make sure to do a better proofread next time.  :razorback:
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #129 on: March 05, 2017, 04:04:39 pm »

Ok, so I did get my wires a little twisted here. I had two lines of thought going and merged them in the worst way so apologies to you.

To clarify, I think Jones is one of the fastest guys on the team and that speed is important but that it isn't THE one most important thing that any one player at any one position needs to have.

Definitely no disrespect to Jones or you intended. I'll make sure to do a better proofread next time.  :razorback:

No worries. And to be fair, I've seen a lot of posts where the person's wires weren't twisted and so I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt that you deserved.

Side note here, but I think that's a pretty common phenomenon. There are a lot of posters who would dismiss Jones for running in the 4.5's. Enough so that it isn't unreasonable to hear somebody say that Jones runs in the 4.5's and assume they are criticizing him. Similarly, there are enough people who think that merely mentioning 4.5 as a forty time is in fact an insult that people like me can become defensive when it is mentioned despite not trying to be insulting at all.

In theory, that would all be solved by paying close attention to each individual's posts, but there are a lot of posters and you can't memorize exactly who all said what or why. I think that also explains a lot of the critiques of hogville for being bipolar as well. We all kind of treat the collection of posters on hogville as a single entity at times. You may read a bunch of posters saying one thing at one time, and then read a bunch of posters saying the opposite another time. Those two groups may not share a single individual and merely represent two completely different groups of people, but we, in general, attribute that opinion as being "hogville's" opinion and thus find it hypocritical for changing opinion even if no actual individual did.

\soapbox
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NotSoFastMyFriend

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #130 on: March 05, 2017, 04:44:13 pm »

No worries. And to be fair, I've seen a lot of posts where the person's wires weren't twisted and so I didn't give you the benefit of the doubt that you deserved.

Side note here, but I think that's a pretty common phenomenon. There are a lot of posters who would dismiss Jones for running in the 4.5's. Enough so that it isn't unreasonable to hear somebody say that Jones runs in the 4.5's and assume they are criticizing him. Similarly, there are enough people who think that merely mentioning 4.5 as a forty time is in fact an insult that people like me can become defensive when it is mentioned despite not trying to be insulting at all.

In theory, that would all be solved by paying close attention to each individual's posts, but there are a lot of posters and you can't memorize exactly who all said what or why. I think that also explains a lot of the critiques of hogville for being bipolar as well. We all kind of treat the collection of posters on hogville as a single entity at times. You may read a bunch of posters saying one thing at one time, and then read a bunch of posters saying the opposite another time. Those two groups may not share a single individual and merely represent two completely different groups of people, but we, in general, attribute that opinion as being "hogville's" opinion and thus find it hypocritical for changing opinion even if no actual individual did.

\soapbox
Well said.
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Mike_e

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #131 on: March 06, 2017, 03:01:57 am »

Running a 4.50 is actually pretty impressive.  It's hard to catch one of those guys.

I'd like to see these numbers done in full gear though.  It would be a better indicator as some people don't slow down much while others are slowed quite a bit with pads on.
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Steef

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #132 on: March 06, 2017, 05:56:46 am »

This has been a good thread, Ben. Well done.
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HogHolio

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #133 on: March 06, 2017, 08:41:18 am »

Running a 4.50 is actually pretty impressive.  It's hard to catch one of those guys.

I'd like to see these numbers done in full gear though.  It would be a better indicator as some people don't slow down much while others are slowed quite a bit with pads on.

I guess that is why we had trouble catching Trevor Knight.  Dude ran a 4.54 forty.  I remember everyone talking about our DBs not being able to run him down and how slow we are, but unless you have the line on a guy with those type of wheels you aren't generally going to catch them.  Now how bad out of position we were is a different story... 
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Ex-Trumpet

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #134 on: March 06, 2017, 09:15:01 am »

Anyone else ever wonder why they don't test the speed times in full pads?  Football speed could be vastly different than track speed.
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1highhog

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #135 on: March 06, 2017, 10:55:17 am »

Looks like Keon ran a 4.65.

Anybody remember what Jerry Rice could run in his heyday?  He was slow when you looked at his times, but no one could ever seem to catch him.
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supersaint

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #136 on: March 06, 2017, 02:00:31 pm »

The fastest players we've ever had on our team are neither McFadden, nor Reed.

Michael Grant was probably faster than them. David Gordon probably was. Eric Hawkins perhaps.

Derrick Thompson, early 90's was sub 4.3. Sprinter on the track team.
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bennyl08

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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #137 on: March 06, 2017, 02:15:01 pm »

Anyone else ever wonder why they don't test the speed times in full pads?  Football speed could be vastly different than track speed.

The purpose of the combine isn't to see what the player will do in a game. The vertical jump is about the only actual thing that could occur in a real game situation.

The purpose of the combine is a way to normalize the different players and thus be able to more fairly compare them. The single most important part of scouting a player is looking at his tape. The second most is watching run the position drills, third is interviews. The actual combine numbers ranks low on the importance spectrum. What those numbers are primarily used for is a way to compare two different player's tapes. If I see Joe Green blazing past people in his tape and Col. Mustard looking much slower compared to other players on his tape, one can gauge relative speeds by seeing how fast the players are to the turf rather than the competition. However, put both players in the same conditions and have them run the combine tests, and you may find that Mustard is objectively faster and more explosive than Green. From there, you go back and rematch the tape and you then will either see that Mustard is fast in sterile testing conditions but plays much slower or you see that Green looks fast because he is going against slower competition but that Mustard does indeed play faster, he is just going against better players.

You put on pads, and you add in a lot more variables. Does one player wear heavier pads than another? If a guy is moving from QB to WR or from DE to OLB, do you have them wear the pads that they wore in college to better judge their tape, or do you have them wear the pads you project for the next level? But then, what is the point? The forty doesn't really reflect game speed in the first place, so why increase the complexity of the test to make it more game-like when it still isn't game like in the first place?
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #138 on: March 06, 2017, 03:27:03 pm »

The purpose of the combine isn't to see what the player will do in a game. The vertical jump is about the only actual thing that could occur in a real game situation.

The purpose of the combine is a way to normalize the different players and thus be able to more fairly compare them. The single most important part of scouting a player is looking at his tape. The second most is watching run the position drills, third is interviews. The actual combine numbers ranks low on the importance spectrum. What those numbers are primarily used for is a way to compare two different player's tapes. If I see Joe Green blazing past people in his tape and Col. Mustard looking much slower compared to other players on his tape, one can gauge relative speeds by seeing how fast the players are to the turf rather than the competition. However, put both players in the same conditions and have them run the combine tests, and you may find that Mustard is objectively faster and more explosive than Green. From there, you go back and rematch the tape and you then will either see that Mustard is fast in sterile testing conditions but plays much slower or you see that Green looks fast because he is going against slower competition but that Mustard does indeed play faster, he is just going against better players.

You put on pads, and you add in a lot more variables. Does one player wear heavier pads than another? If a guy is moving from QB to WR or from DE to OLB, do you have them wear the pads that they wore in college to better judge their tape, or do you have them wear the pads you project for the next level? But then, what is the point? The forty doesn't really reflect game speed in the first place, so why increase the complexity of the test to make it more game-like when it still isn't game like in the first place?

Then run them with and without pads.  Shouldn't be too difficult to see if pads greatly affect a fast guy, or if a guy that was thought of as fast, turns in a slower than expected time. 

Michael Irvin was not a fast guy...but I would wager that he was about as fast with pads on as without.  Same with Jerry Rice.
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #139 on: March 06, 2017, 04:04:22 pm »

Anyone else ever wonder why they don't test the speed times in full pads?  Football speed could be vastly different than track speed.

You mean you can't evaluate these guys while they're wearing the world's most high-tech underwear?   :)
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #140 on: March 06, 2017, 05:50:18 pm »

Then run them with and without pads.  Shouldn't be too difficult to see if pads greatly affect a fast guy, or if a guy that was thought of as fast, turns in a slower than expected time. 

Michael Irvin was not a fast guy...but I would wager that he was about as fast with pads on as without.  Same with Jerry Rice.

Why though? What do they gain by running the players in both?

The coaches and scouts gain as much information about how fast the player will be on the field in pads by having them run a forty yard dash in pads as they would by adding chain mail armor and a tutu. The only reason they would do either of those is for the fans, and despite the new coverage that the combine gets, it still is not primarily for the fans.
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #141 on: March 06, 2017, 08:41:47 pm »

Is Jordan Jones the kid that punted the ball and then beat everyone down the field to make the tackle in high school or is that someone else?
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #142 on: March 06, 2017, 08:42:43 pm »

Is Jordan Jones the kid that punted the ball and then beat everyone down the field to make the tackle in high school or is that someone else?

I believe so..or something close to it.
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #143 on: March 07, 2017, 09:49:13 am »

Is Jordan Jones the kid that punted the ball and then beat everyone down the field to make the tackle in high school or is that someone else?

That was Tanner English, and he made the tackle before the returner caught the ball.
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #144 on: March 07, 2017, 03:42:53 pm »

Why though? What do they gain by running the players in both?

The coaches and scouts gain as much information about how fast the player will be on the field in pads by having them run a forty yard dash in pads as they would by adding chain mail armor and a tutu. The only reason they would do either of those is for the fans, and despite the new coverage that the combine gets, it still is not primarily for the fans.

So, you don't believe that running in pads at the combine relates to how fast someone will be on the field in pads?  If they played in chain mail, then, yes run them in chain mail.  Carrying extra weight can expose someone's explosiveness and strength.
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #145 on: March 07, 2017, 04:08:18 pm »

Renaldo Nehemiah ran a 2.66 40.
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #146 on: March 07, 2017, 04:35:20 pm »

Renaldo Nehemiah ran a 2.66 40.

Jumping hurdles at that!
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #147 on: March 07, 2017, 04:41:00 pm »

So, you don't believe that running in pads at the combine relates to how fast someone will be on the field in pads?  If they played in chain mail, then, yes run them in chain mail.  Carrying extra weight can expose someone's explosiveness and strength.

No. The biggest change between how fast a player runs in shorts, in a straight line, in a sterile environment and how fast they run on game day is first and foremost going to be information processing. The 2nd biggest change is going to be that they will have to be changing direction a lot. Third is going to be fatigue of playing through an entire game, likely while in some form of pain somewhere. Yes, adding the weight of the pads is going to change things as well, but the impact of adding pads is way down the list.

It is akin to complaining that it isn't realistic test for a military person to be standing still and shooting at a stationary target in a calm setting of a shooting range ... because they aren't wearing full gear. Sure, it is more realistic to have gear on, but compared to the lack of you moving, the target moving, the stress of the situation, there being civilians to worry about and so on, having the recruits wear full gear is a pretty small complaint about the scenario.

Further, lets do some physics. F=ma is a nice, abbreviated equation to look at. To accelerate a heavier object the same as a smaller object requires more force. This is how you can become stronger, heavier, but also faster. If the added muscle mass means you need say 10 pounds more force to accelerate the same as before, but the added muscle allows you generate 15 pounds more force, you will become faster despite being heavier. If you are adding weight to your biceps and chest but not your glutes and legs, then that extra weight won't give you extra power to run faster and will slow you down. As for pads, yeah, it is all just added mass to accelerate without speed benefits itself. So, let's remove a variable and say everybody's pads weigh the same and it is 10 pounds. That is going to require the same amount of increased force to keep the same acceleration for everybody; however, for the 180 pound person, that represents a bigger change than for the 330 pound person.

Basically, it isn't some mysterious impact that pads are going to have. Two identical players will have the loss of speed with identical pads on. Give one heavier pads, they will be slowed down more. Give the same pads to the players with different weights, and the pads smaller person will see a bigger % change to their speed than the larger.

Running them without pads isn't depriving scouts from information. The impact that the extra weight will have is a predictable impact. Further, the impact it has is extremely small compared to other things. Further further, with variability in pads, introducing them into the testing increases the errors in the testing and therefore makes the numbers you get LESS useful. So, the benefit that one gets from running in pads is smaller than the increase in errors resulting from the added variables and so they don't do it. This is a multi-billion dollar industry. Everybody's job in the organization is on the line when it comes to evaluating players.
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #148 on: March 09, 2017, 12:42:49 pm »

No. The biggest change between how fast a player runs in shorts, in a straight line, in a sterile environment and how fast they run on game day is first and foremost going to be information processing. The 2nd biggest change is going to be that they will have to be changing direction a lot. Third is going to be fatigue of playing through an entire game, likely while in some form of pain somewhere. Yes, adding the weight of the pads is going to change things as well, but the impact of adding pads is way down the list.

It is akin to complaining that it isn't realistic test for a military person to be standing still and shooting at a stationary target in a calm setting of a shooting range ... because they aren't wearing full gear. Sure, it is more realistic to have gear on, but compared to the lack of you moving, the target moving, the stress of the situation, there being civilians to worry about and so on, having the recruits wear full gear is a pretty small complaint about the scenario.

Further, lets do some physics. F=ma is a nice, abbreviated equation to look at. To accelerate a heavier object the same as a smaller object requires more force. This is how you can become stronger, heavier, but also faster. If the added muscle mass means you need say 10 pounds more force to accelerate the same as before, but the added muscle allows you generate 15 pounds more force, you will become faster despite being heavier. If you are adding weight to your biceps and chest but not your glutes and legs, then that extra weight won't give you extra power to run faster and will slow you down. As for pads, yeah, it is all just added mass to accelerate without speed benefits itself. So, let's remove a variable and say everybody's pads weigh the same and it is 10 pounds. That is going to require the same amount of increased force to keep the same acceleration for everybody; however, for the 180 pound person, that represents a bigger change than for the 330 pound person.

Basically, it isn't some mysterious impact that pads are going to have. Two identical players will have the loss of speed with identical pads on. Give one heavier pads, they will be slowed down more. Give the same pads to the players with different weights, and the pads smaller person will see a bigger % change to their speed than the larger.

Running them without pads isn't depriving scouts from information. The impact that the extra weight will have is a predictable impact. Further, the impact it has is extremely small compared to other things. Further further, with variability in pads, introducing them into the testing increases the errors in the testing and therefore makes the numbers you get LESS useful. So, the benefit that one gets from running in pads is smaller than the increase in errors resulting from the added variables and so they don't do it. This is a multi-billion dollar industry. Everybody's job in the organization is on the line when it comes to evaluating players.

Lot's of words...you could have replied with "These go to eleven."
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Re: NFL Combine Thread
« Reply #149 on: March 09, 2017, 12:48:01 pm »

Lot's of words...you could have replied with "These go to eleven."

He would have spontaneously combusted.
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