Haven't we seen this movie before?

[Michael D Huff AIA]

We have seen on the ESPN crawler or on message boards the news where some school 'got caught' by the NCAA on the recruiting trail and is about to get 'the hammer' dropped on them.....only to have nothing happen. 

North Carolina has been notified three times that they have been accused of academic fraud...THREE TIMES...and nothing has happened yet.  They propped up athletes GPA's to keep them eligible for 18 YEARS.  Nothing happened.

Miami booster Nevin Shapiro has the receipts on club outings, sec parties, restaurant meals and cash payments to players for 8 years.  Yeah, he's a Ponzi scheme scumbag and has no credibility, but that doesn't mean that he and Miami didn't violate NCAA rules  FOR ALMOST A DECADE - on top of.  They lost 9 scholarships over a 3 year period.  That's almost nothing. 

Rape culture at Baylor.  52 rapes by 18 players over 3 years.  Say no more.  Worthy of the death penalty in this poster's mind.  Nothing has happened.

Cam Newton's dad demanded $180,000 for Cam to sign with Mississippi State.  There are texts and voice mails discussing it, and they have been played to NCAA investigators.  Makes you wonder what Auburn paid him.  Neither school had a thing happen to them. 

Nothing happened to these programs that would fit the crimes that these schools committed.  We can say the NCAA is a toothless joke of an organization, but at the end of the day, they are the ones that deal out punishments to rogue schools.  They are the ones policing this neighborhood, and by the looks of it, their neighborhood has a high crime rate.

So, given the recent history of the NCAA and their 'hammer', what makes us think that Ole Miss will get a punishment from the NCAA fitting the crimes they have committed?  I have zero faith that they will given a punishment that fits the crimes.

There may be dark clouds over Oxford, but that doesn't always guarantee a storm.

[Razorbackers]

You're not wrong, but I can 100% guarantee that the Baylor situation is nowhere near over. The NCAA is going to let the actual authorities finish their investigation and charges and all that before they do anything, as they should.

[bennyl08]

North Carolina has been notified three times that they have been accused of academic fraud...THREE TIMES...and nothing has happened yet.  They propped up athletes GPA's to keep them eligible for 18 YEARS.  Nothing happened.

18 years? I think that's the real crime. I mean, sure, they'd be pretty experienced by that point, but if they haven't left for the NFL after playing college football for 18 years, then they can't be that good.

Maybe that's why the NCAA didn't punish them.

[BigSexyHog]

NCAA is a bunch of chicken Saturday.  They won't do crap to Ole Missy.  Biggest joke in sports is the NCAA

[Dropkick]

I think Ole Miss is gonna get the USC treatment.

[RazorWest]

Universities don't seem to be created equal.  Ole Miss is not Alabama, Ohio State, Michigan, or any other nationally relevant school, thus I won't be surprised one bit if the NCAA hammers them big time.  If the same thing happened at one of the schools mentioned above little to nothing would happen

[sowmonella]

I think Ole Miss is gonna get the USC treatment.

This ^^^^^

[Jackrabbit Hog]

I think Ole Miss is gonna get the USC treatment.

If I were them, I'd rather get the Aunt Jemima treatment.

[hobhog]

Could be surprise ending to this movie. Ole Miss is stonewalling press and saying they dispute most of the findings. Not a good combo.

[jlhogfan]

You think Miami didn't feel the effects of what happened?  USC, Baylor??  What do you think the NCAA should do; death penalties all around

[12247]

The NCAA is much like the Federal Government.  They make rules and regs whereby they can have much room to judge and decide, thus saving the important folks while burning the run of the mill crews.  OM is run of the mill, expect to see much hurt here. 

By leaving the rules vague and arbitrary, smart coaches like Saban can run right through them and not get touched while they gang tackle a HC like Freeze.  Freeze is the sacrificial lamb to be strung up like a horse thief in the old west movies.

Again, much like our government, you hammer the average Joe and let the rich get richer.  Only time a PLAYER gets strung up by our government is when a BIGGER PLAYER wants it done.    Same as FBS Football.

[colbs]

Ole Miss has lied and not been the best with cooperating with the NCAA.  I just don't see it ending well for Ole Miss.  Best case scenario for them is the 11 total lost scholarships, bowl ban, loss of almost $8M, and damaged reputation.  Tennessee's old bball coach had 7 level 1 violations(the highest) and was hit with a 10 year show clause.  Ole Miss has been accused of 15 level 1 violations which is not counting some their other major violations(level 2).

[farmhawg]

You think Miami didn't feel the effects of what happened?  USC, Baylor??  What do you think the NCAA should do; death penalties all around

For Baylor, yes. Need to dismantle the NCAA and let the p5 come up with their own legislation and enforcement.

[jlhogfan]

For Baylor, yes. Need to dismantle the NCAA and let the p5 come up with their own legislation and enforcement.

Dismantled?  For what?  Let the P5 (Bama in other words) legislate their own; not sure that would help anything

[farmhawg]

Didn't realize bama controls the p5.

[jlhogfan]

Didn't realize bama controls the p5.

It was tongue in cheek; I just think that the P5's legislating themselves is not a good idea

[Pigsknuckles]

Let one of our coaches buy a soft drink for a player after practice, and watch the world burn.

[biglewhog77]

But let been the hogs we would have got the death penalty

[gchamblee]

a good conspiracy is always entertaining

[hawganatic]

This is what happened to Miami and North Carolina.  Neither school has gotten back to the level they were before the sanctions.

As far as Auburn.  The NCAA didn't have any way to connect Newton to actually accepting money.  They only had recordings of his dad asking for money from a school he didn't go too.   The NCAA also dropped the hammer on USC (one of the supposed protected/money schools) and laid it to Ohio State pretty hard. 

You really should do some research before posting. 


Miami:

- Tagged with lack of institutional control
- Two season bowl ban (self imposed)
- Three year probation
- 9 scholarships lost
- Basketball coach (already at Missori) suspended five games
- Three former assistants two year show-cause penalty.
- Several players declared ineligible and had to petition to play.  Only allowed to play after making restitution


North Carolina:

- 15 scholarships lost
- 3 year probation
- Butch Davis fired
- All wins from 2008 and 2009 seasons vacated
- Postseason ban for 2012
- 3 year show-cause penalty for John Blake

[NotSoFastMyFriend]

This is what happened to Miami and North Carolina.  Neither school has gotten back to the level they were before the sanctions.

As far as Auburn.  The NCAA didn't have any way to connect Newton to actually accepting money.  They only had recordings of his dad asking for money from a school he didn't go too.   The NCAA also dropped the hammer on USC (one of the supposed protected/money schools) and laid it to Ohio State pretty hard. 

You really should do some research before posting. 


Miami:

- Tagged with lack of institutional control
- Two season bowl ban (self imposed)
- Three year probation
- 9 scholarships lost
- Basketball coach (already at Missori) suspended five games
- Three former assistants two year show-cause penalty.
- Several players declared ineligible and had to petition to play.  Only allowed to play after making restitution


North Carolina:

- 15 scholarships lost
- 3 year probation
- Butch Davis fired
- All wins from 2008 and 2009 seasons vacated
- Postseason ban for 2012
- 3 year show-cause penalty for John Blake

Fact-based posts always trump agenda-driven emotional rants. Always have. Always will. They are the 7Up of HV.

[MissippHog]

Fact-based posts always trump agenda-driven emotional rants. Always have. Always will. They are the 7Up of HV.

Somewhat.  There will still be people that will read the facts and twist them to fit their agenda. 

[rljjr]

Also, Bama did get hammered for the Albert Means and another player incident. I read the article linked to remind myself, but it was a 5 year probation period, including a reduction of 21 scholarships for three years and bowl ban for a couple of seasons.

There were 11 level 1 violations in the Bama case. I have no idea if Ole Miss will get punished like this or not, but the potential is there.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/college/football/2002-02-01-alabama-violations.htm

[Pork Twain]

People keep bringing up every rumor they have heard, but that is not realistic.  There is a HUGE difference between hearing and spreading what you hear and being able to actually prove it.  Hearsay does not go very far without hard proof.  Anyone that has anything to do with law, law enforcement or analysis knows there is a million miles between a rumor and something that you can prove.

http://arkansas.247sports.com/Article/History-shows-NCAA-penalties-against-Ole-Miss-football-will-be-s-51445120?utm_source=247Sports%20Newsletter&utm_medium=Newsletter&utm_campaign=170223_165308_Arkansas%20Razorbacks&utm_content=Link

1988: Oklahoma Football
Violations Included: Lack of institutional control, improper recruiting, extra benefits and improper transportation
Penalties Levied: Three-year probation, two-year bowl ban, one-year live TV band, 14 scholarships lost over a two-year period and restricted recruiting visits

1994: Ole Miss
Violations Included: Lack of institutional control, improper benefits to athletes during official visits, official visits, offers of plane tickets and cars to prospects by staff members and boosters
Penalties Levied: Four-year probation, two-year postseason ban, one-year TV ban, a reduction of 24 scholarships over a two-year period

2002: Kentucky
Violations Included: Lack of institutional control, failure to monitor by head coach, improper recruiting, two official visits for potential student athletes, athletic representatives provided cash, tickets, lodging meal.
Penalties Levied: Three-year probation, one-year postseason ban, three-year reduction of scholarships

2002: Alabama
Violations Included: Impermissible recruiting, extra benefits
Penalties Levied: Five-year probation, two-year postseason ban, scholarship reductions, recruiting restrictions

2012: Central Florida
Violations Included: Third-party involvement with prospects and student athletes, impermissible recruiting by outside parties, impermissible benefits to prospective student athletes, lack of institutional control

Other programs hammered
SMU in the 80's
Michigan in the 90's
Florida in the 80's
Minnesota in the 90's
Miami in the 90's
USC in the 00's


https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/01/20/study-infraction-penalties-consistent-across-ncaa-conferences
Penalties Levied: Five-year probation, one-year postseason ban, scholarship reduction, recruiting restrictions[/I]

[PORKULATOR]

NCAA is a bunch of chicken Saturday.  They won't do crap to Ole Missy.  Biggest joke in sports is the NCAA

this ^^^^^ yep... That there

[HogShat]

Vacating wins is a joke. Its an eraser on a piece of paper. They still know they won the game, and whomever they beat still knows they lost it! There is no punishment in that! Bush having to give back the Heisman? That has a little more teeth to it. You find a program guilty of major offenses, then reduce scholarships, bowl ban, immediate termination for the offending staff member/s, and fine the frick out of the institution. I mean hefty fines that hurt. Won't take long busting that checkbook and the higher ups will make dang sure that everyone in the program is toeing the line...

[bob slydell]

As far as Auburn.  The NCAA didn't have any way to connect Newton to actually accepting money.  They only had recordings of his dad asking for money from a school he didn't go too.     

There really shouldn't have to be a connection to the player.  The SEC declared Cam ineligible and the NCAA overruled that decision.  He clearly violated SEC rules and should have never seen the field again and all of Auburn's wins with him should have been wiped out.  What the NCAA did was a tad bit farther than simply not being able to prove something.  They had to twist themselves in knots to overrule the SEC decision.  There's nothing passive about how the NCAA bungled that mess.

[nchogg]

We have seen on the ESPN crawler or on message boards the news where some school 'got caught' by the NCAA on the recruiting trail and is about to get 'the hammer' dropped on them.....only to have nothing happen. 

North Carolina has been notified three times that they have been accused of academic fraud...THREE TIMES...and nothing has happened yet.  They propped up athletes GPA's to keep them eligible for 18 YEARS.  Nothing happened.

Miami booster Nevin Shapiro has the receipts on club outings, sec parties, restaurant meals and cash payments to players for 8 years.  Yeah, he's a Ponzi scheme scumbag and has no credibility, but that doesn't mean that he and Miami didn't violate NCAA rules  FOR ALMOST A DECADE - on top of.  They lost 9 scholarships over a 3 year period.  That's almost nothing. 

Rape culture at Baylor.  52 rapes by 18 players over 3 years.  Say no more.  Worthy of the death penalty in this poster's mind.  Nothing has happened.

Cam Newton's dad demanded $180,000 for Cam to sign with Mississippi State.  There are texts and voice mails discussing it, and they have been played to NCAA investigators.  Makes you wonder what Auburn paid him.  Neither school had a thing happen to them. 

Nothing happened to these programs that would fit the crimes that these schools committed.  We can say the NCAA is a toothless joke of an organization, but at the end of the day, they are the ones that deal out punishments to rogue schools.  They are the ones policing this neighborhood, and by the looks of it, their neighborhood has a high crime rate.

So, given the recent history of the NCAA and their 'hammer', what makes us think that Ole Miss will get a punishment from the NCAA fitting the crimes they have committed?  I have zero faith that they will given a punishment that fits the crimes.

There may be dark clouds over Oxford, but that doesn't always guarantee a storm.

The NCAA is too busy interfering in state and local government to take care of their own house by moving certain games from Charlotte, NC due to their H2 B bathroom law. They need to clean up their own house which is a big big mess. The NCAA is getting too big and not doing the job they are intended to do. There name is National Collegiate Athletic Association or does NCAA stand for something else.

[Razorbackers]

The NCAA is too busy interfering in state and local government to take care of their own house by moving certain games from Charlotte, NC due to their H2 B bathroom law. They need to clean up their own house which is a big big mess. The NCAA is getting too big and not doing the job they are intended to do. There name is National Collegiate Athletic Association or does NCAA stand for something else.

The NCAA can host NCAA things wherever they want.

[redleg]

Ole Miss was hit with penalties in 1994 too. That makes them a repeat offender. Doubt that will have any affect on this, since it was over 20 years ago.
If the NCAA hits Ole Miss with more sanctions, specifically a second bowl ban year, the NCAA will allow any scholarship player on the Rebels roster to transfer without having to sit out a year. If THAT happens, do not be surprised to see that vaunted 2016 class fall apart. The "16 class is what would keep the team together and somewhat competitive over the next couple of years, but not if they aren't there.
Maybe Arkansas can get a few of them! 
:razorback:

[DoctorSusscrofa]

The NCAA is serious about bathrooms, though. You try to keep your bathrooms away from some gu.. I mean some gir...I mean some, um well you know what I mean, and the NCAA is on it.

[TUSKtimes]

This ole miss punishment will not go gently into the night. If they think this investigation had a prolonged draining effect wait still they feel the aftereffects of losing multiple scholarships over the next number of years. Not year one or two, but by year three, depth and talent will be all but gone and even trying to practice much less playing with a competitive balance is impossible.

[hawganatic]

There really shouldn't have to be a connection to the player.  The SEC declared Cam ineligible and the NCAA overruled that decision.  He clearly violated SEC rules and should have never seen the field again and all of Auburn's wins with him should have been wiped out.  What the NCAA did was a tad bit farther than simply not being able to prove something.  They had to twist themselves in knots to overrule the SEC decision.  There's nothing passive about how the NCAA bungled that mess.

So you're saying there shouldn't have to be proof that a player accepted money?  Interesting...

The SEC was covering their back side when they declared him ineligible.  Nothing more, nothing less.  The only thing the NCAA (at least to my memory) was a recorded conversation with his dad asking for money from a school he didn't go too.   We all know he took the money.  Everybody in the NCAA knows he took money.  But they have to be able to SHOW that he actually accepted money to play at Auburn.  That is a dotted line they weren't able to complete.

Bigger schools get off easier because their boosters actually know what they are doing.  They know how to cover the money trail and they know how to keep people quiet.  The NCAA doesn't have the luxury of conviction based off of gut feeling and casual observations, like people on HV seem to think they do.

[bob slydell]

So you're saying there shouldn't have to be proof that a player accepted money?  Interesting...

The SEC was covering their back side when they declared him ineligible.  Nothing more, nothing less.  The only thing the NCAA (at least to my memory) was a recorded conversation with his dad asking for money from a school he didn't go too.   We all know he took the money.  Everybody in the NCAA knows he took money.  But they have to be able to SHOW that he actually accepted money to play at Auburn.  That is a dotted line they weren't able to complete.

Bigger schools get off easier because their boosters actually know what they are doing.  They know how to cover the money trail and they know how to keep people quiet.  The NCAA doesn't have the luxury of conviction based off of gut feeling and casual observations, like people on HV seem to think they do.

Don't wast too much time beating up on the strawman; I never said anything about taking money from Auburn.  The below seems pretty clear to me, but what do I know...

SEC Bylaw 14.01.3.2  If at any time before or after matriculation in a member institution a student-athlete or any member of his/her family receives or agrees to receive, directly or indirectly, any aid or assistance beyond or in addition to that permitted by the Bylaws of this Conference (except such aid or assistance as such student-athlete may receive from those persons on whom the student is naturally or legally dependent for support), such student- athlete shall be ineligible for competition in any intercollegiate sport within the Conference for the remainder of his/her college career.

The above is why he should have been ineligible after Cecil admitted to the scheme.  If Auburn indeed didn't pay him a dime, those are still the breaks.  Especially when you take on a player that at the time had a sketchy past.

[justmakeit2thebcs]

We have seen on the ESPN crawler or on message boards the news where some school 'got caught' by the NCAA on the recruiting trail and is about to get 'the hammer' dropped on them.....only to have nothing happen. 

North Carolina has been notified three times that they have been accused of academic fraud...THREE TIMES...and nothing has happened yet.  They propped up athletes GPA's to keep them eligible for 18 YEARS.  Nothing happened.

Miami booster Nevin Shapiro has the receipts on club outings, sec parties, restaurant meals and cash payments to players for 8 years.  Yeah, he's a Ponzi scheme scumbag and has no credibility, but that doesn't mean that he and Miami didn't violate NCAA rules  FOR ALMOST A DECADE - on top of.  They lost 9 scholarships over a 3 year period.  That's almost nothing. 

Rape culture at Baylor.  52 rapes by 18 players over 3 years.  Say no more.  Worthy of the death penalty in this poster's mind.  Nothing has happened.

Cam Newton's dad demanded $180,000 for Cam to sign with Mississippi State.  There are texts and voice mails discussing it, and they have been played to NCAA investigators.  Makes you wonder what Auburn paid him.  Neither school had a thing happen to them. 

Nothing happened to these programs that would fit the crimes that these schools committed.  We can say the NCAA is a toothless joke of an organization, but at the end of the day, they are the ones that deal out punishments to rogue schools.  They are the ones policing this neighborhood, and by the looks of it, their neighborhood has a high crime rate.

So, given the recent history of the NCAA and their 'hammer', what makes us think that Ole Miss will get a punishment from the NCAA fitting the crimes they have committed?  I have zero faith that they will given a punishment that fits the crimes.

There may be dark clouds over Oxford, but that doesn't always guarantee a storm.

Did you just equate the ESPN crawler to a message board?  LOL.  North Carolina has been hit and more is coming. 

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/acc/unc/article122420449.html

Baylor mess is less than a year old.  In the US we have due process, you don't get convicted on the ESPN crawler/message boards.

Was MSU supposed to get penalized because Cam's dad asked for money?  Was there any proof that at Auburn paid any money or are you just going assuming they did because that's where Cam went?

Miami did get penalties.  You got your information about the case from message boards, the NCAA got their info from interviews and hearings.  Message boards ?  NCAA may not be perfect but the are a better source than Hogville.

[Michael D Huff AIA]

Did you just equate the ESPN crawler to a message board?  LOL. 

Interesting comparison.  I didn't think of it in those words, but both the ESPN crawler and Hogville or other boards are quick "sources" of knowledge about an event or events in the sports world.  I trust ESPN more than I would, say, Hogville, but they have butchered the truth on more than one occasion.  Last week we were supposedly close to a Floyd Mayweather / Conor McGregor fight.  The next day Mayweather came out an said that there is no fight close to happening. 

Oops.

As the OP on this thread, I did do research on the schools that I talked about.  I'm very aware they got some punishment, but not the punishment level that they deserved for the seriousness of their crimes.  It does not take 5 years to investigate a school.  It should not take 1 year to investigate a school.  Such protracted 'investigations' reek of a hope by the NCAA that we will forget as a public so everything can just 'get back to normal', and the cloud of uncertainty over that time period would be 'punishment enough'. 

Penn State got their punishment REDUCED!  They used football camps so a perverted coach could troll for little boys while Paterno knew about it, and they got their punishment reduced?  They should have lost the ability to ever have football again.  That punishment would have fit the crime.  Baylor deserves the death penalty.  That punishment would fit the severity of their crimes.

The NCAA is a joke that isn't all that funny. 

[gchamblee]

Interesting comparison.  I didn't think of it in those words, but both the ESPN crawler and Hogville or other boards are quick "sources" of knowledge about an event or events in the sports world.  I trust ESPN more than I would, say, Hogville, but they have butchered the truth on more than one occasion.  Last week we were supposedly close to a Floyd Mayweather / Conor McGregor fight.  The next day Mayweather came out an said that there is no fight close to happening. 

Oops.

As the OP on this thread, I did do research on the schools that I talked about.  I'm very aware they got some punishment, but not the punishment level that they deserved for the seriousness of their crimes.  It does not take 5 years to investigate a school.  It should not take 1 year to investigate a school.  Such protracted 'investigations' reek of a hope by the NCAA that we will forget as a public so everything can just 'get back to normal', and the cloud of uncertainty over that time period would be 'punishment enough'. 

Penn State got their punishment REDUCED!  They used football camps so a perverted coach could troll for little boys while Paterno knew about it, and they got their punishment reduced?  They should have lost the ability to ever have football again.  That punishment would have fit the crime.  Baylor deserves the death penalty.  That punishment would fit the severity of their crimes.

The NCAA is a joke that isn't all that funny.

I don't even have words

[hawganatic]

Penn State got their punishment REDUCED!  They used football camps so a perverted coach could troll for little boys while Paterno knew about it, and they got their punishment reduced? 

LOL, seriously bro!!  Do some research and know what actually happened before posting.  The Sandusky scandal had nothing to do with football camps that Penn State was holding...

[nchogg]

The NCAA can host NCAA things wherever they want.

You are right about that but the NCAA is about college sports and should not be in the business of interfering in local or state law which they are.