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Author Topic: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?  (Read 3856 times)

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hawganatic

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2017, 01:26:02 pm »

..
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2017, 03:20:45 pm »

You keep touting this but Jones is also one of the few players who played as a true freshman and stayed for four years. 

Jones = 46 games - 8,392 total yards

Ryan Mallett = 26 games - 7,390 total yards.  With 20 more games played Jones only had 1,002 yards more of total offense than Mallett.
Tyler Wilson = 37 games - 7,721 total yards.  With 9 more games Jones only had 671 yards more in total offense that Wilson.

For single season records Jones doesn't rank higher that 7th in any category, and doesn't make it in the top ten for any single game records.  If you want to talk about his running skills, McFadden blows him out of the water in every category, in less games played.  If you want to talk about his passing skill, there are several people that blow him out of the water in every category, in less games played.

I think we can all agree Nutt was an idiot, but at the same time, if we had a competent coach that knew how to design an offense and develop a quarterback, Tavaris Jackson probably would have been our starter.  Nutt's inability to put a cohesive offense together is probably the main reason Jones played QB.

Not saying any of this to run Jones down.  Very fun and exciting to watch play and had a great four years here, and definitely one of the all time greats.  Just tired of seeing this line of thought that he was the best ever based off of skewed statistics, and that he would have been the greatest to ever play the game if it weren't for coaching.

What I said is exactly true.  Matt Jones is Arkansas' career leader in total offense and TD responsibility.  The fact that you think he doesn't "deserve" to hold those records doesn't change them.

As for McFadden, he never in any single season averaged as many yards per carry as Jones averaged for his career.  McFadden's career YPC was 5.8.  Jones' was 6.6.  Not only that, but I would venture a guess that Jones had as many or more runs of 50 yards or more among his 382 career carries than Darren had in 785.  Jones was a great broken field runner.  Unless there was a clear path ahead of him McFadden tended to run into tacklers. 

And Tarvaris Jackson?  Did you ever actually watch him play QB at Arkansas?  He was atrocious, unless you have a thing for either sailing passes ten yards over receivers' heads of throwing them into the ground at their feet.  Maybe that's why Alabama and Auburn, his home state schools, thought he was a linebacker...if he was anything at all.
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hawganatic

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2017, 04:29:29 pm »

What I said is exactly true.  Matt Jones is Arkansas' career leader in total offense and TD responsibility.  The fact that you think he doesn't "deserve" to hold those records doesn't change them.

As for McFadden, he never in any single season averaged as many yards per carry as Jones averaged for his career.  McFadden's career YPC was 5.8.  Jones' was 6.6.  Not only that, but I would venture a guess that Jones had as many or more runs of 50 yards or more among his 382 career carries than Darren had in 785.  Jones was a great broken field runner.  Unless there was a clear path ahead of him McFadden tended to run into tacklers. 

And Tarvaris Jackson?  Did you ever actually watch him play QB at Arkansas?  He was atrocious, unless you have a thing for either sailing passes ten yards over receivers' heads of throwing them into the ground at their feet.  Maybe that's why Alabama and Auburn, his home state schools, thought he was a linebacker...if he was anything at all.

What you said is exactly true.  Matt Jones does have more total offense than any player in history.  What I said is also true in that it took him significantly more games than other players in the top 10 for total offense to get the record.  You do realize that Mallett would have over 13,000 total yards if he had played the same number of games that Jones did, don't you?  Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the records.  Means that it doesn't make him the best to ever play here like you think.

As far as McFadden, you can't compare a running back's average to a QBs average.  If you understand the law of averages you'd know that if Jones carried the ball the same number of times McFadden carried, his average would be lower.  Try comparing Jones to other quarterbacks instead of a running back. 

As far as Jackson, I think the fact that he went second round in the draft, AS A QUARTERBACK, and played/started for several years shows that he had a lot more upside than Jones at the position.  You can't hold Nutt's coaching against Jones without holding it against Jackson.
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2017, 10:10:46 pm »

What you said is exactly true.  Matt Jones does have more total offense than any player in history.  What I said is also true in that it took him significantly more games than other players in the top 10 for total offense to get the record.  You do realize that Mallett would have over 13,000 total yards if he had played the same number of games that Jones did, don't you?  Doesn't mean he doesn't deserve the records.  Means that it doesn't make him the best to ever play here like you think.

As far as McFadden, you can't compare a running back's average to a QBs average.  If you understand the law of averages you'd know that if Jones carried the ball the same number of times McFadden carried, his average would be lower.  Try comparing Jones to other quarterbacks instead of a running back. 

As far as Jackson, I think the fact that he went second round in the draft, AS A QUARTERBACK, and played/started for several years shows that he had a lot more upside than Jones at the position.  You can't hold Nutt's coaching against Jones without holding it against Jackson.

QBs lose yardage, sometimes big yardage, on sacks.  If it was that much easier to gain yardage running from the QB position every team would have a QB carrying the ball on the majority of its running plays.  Quinn Grovey was considered the best running QB at Arkansas during the modern era until Jones came along.  How many YPC did he average?

As for the number of games Jones played, how many of those were spent splitting time in Nutt's idiotic "two-headed quarterback" scheme?

The back who averaged more yards per attempt than anyone in Arkansas history got roughly eight carries per game in his career.
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Snizzzo

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2017, 10:39:04 pm »

Definitely not!! Maybe with Ryan Mallett.

Right, DEFINITELY not!!  There is no way a team that was #5 in the country the last week of the season with Casey Dick would've been/done better with a better QB.  Definitely not....
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hawganatic

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #55 on: February 15, 2017, 10:52:49 pm »

QBs lose yardage, sometimes big yardage, on sacks.  If it was that much easier to gain yardage running from the QB position every team would have a QB carrying the ball on the majority of its running plays.  Quinn Grovey was considered the best running QB at Arkansas during the modern era until Jones came along.  How many YPC did he average?

As for the number of games Jones played, how many of those were spent splitting time in Nutt's idiotic "two-headed quarterback" scheme?

The back who averaged more yards per attempt than anyone in Arkansas history got roughly eight carries per game in his career.

Okay, so where did I say it was easier running from the QB position?  I'm talking solely on average yards per carry.  McFadden for his three years averaged 16, 20, and 25 carries per game.  If Jones averaged that many carries per game his average would lower because the defense would have keyed in on it a lot more than they did.  It's really a useless statistic unless you are comparing two players serving the exact same role in an offense.

Jones was better than Grovey.  I don't really know what your point is with bringing him up.

You tell me how many games Jones had to "split time" with somebody else in.  The only time I remember this happening is the 2003 season, and he pretty much took over after a couple of series.  The whole "had to split time" with other QBs is really overblown.  It definitely didn't happen enough to account for a 20 game deficit between him and Mallett.

You keep saying Jones is the GOAT of Arkansas football.  How can he be the GOAT when he's not even the greatest at his position?
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #56 on: February 15, 2017, 11:35:43 pm »

Okay, so where did I say it was easier running from the QB position?  I'm talking solely on average yards per carry.  McFadden for his three years averaged 16, 20, and 25 carries per game.  If Jones averaged that many carries per game his average would lower because the defense would have keyed in on it a lot more than they did.  It's really a useless statistic unless you are comparing two players serving the exact same role in an offense.

Jones was better than Grovey.  I don't really know what your point is with bringing him up.

You tell me how many games Jones had to "split time" with somebody else in.  The only time I remember this happening is the 2003 season, and he pretty much took over after a couple of series.  The whole "had to split time" with other QBs is really overblown.  It definitely didn't happen enough to account for a 20 game deficit between him and Mallett.

You keep saying Jones is the GOAT of Arkansas football.  How can he be the GOAT when he's not even the greatest at his position?

How old are you?  In the 2001 season opener Nutt played four QBs.  Zak Clark, Ryan Sorahan, true freshman Tarvaris Jackson, and even wideout Gerald Howard...but not Matt Jones.  It wasn't until the third or fourth game that Jones played QB at all.

During his entire freshman year, despite being the national player of the week for winning the 7 OT duel on the road against Eli Manning, Jones only carried the ball something like 74 times...for an eight yard average.  He probably didn't throw more than 30 passes.

The next year, in 2002, Nutt had him p split time with TJack through the first six games.  The Dork said something like "I promised Tarvaris he would play the third series of every game." After being booed off the field following a dreadful home loss to Kentucky to drop to 3-3...a game in which inserting TJack right after Jones led a long TD drive killed momentum... Nutt finally announced Jones would be the full-time QB.  The Hogs won the next six straight to win the West and go to Atlanta for the SECCG.

Surely by that time Nutt had learned his lesson, right?  Wrong.  In 2003 he actually had Sorahan start at least half the games.  After Sorahan threw a pick six to put Florida up 33-7 with half the 4th quarter left, Gomer brought Jones back in and he produced three TDs in about six minutes to almost pull out the win (the Tony Bua spearing the QB on an interception at midfield game).

2004 was really the only season when Jones was the full-time QB, but even then Nutt tried to play Robert Johnson every chance he got.

The truth is Matt Jones was seldom the full-time QB during his years at Arkansas.  We have his brainiac coach to thank for that.  We also have Nutt to thank for Jones' arm trouble.  He was so upset because Matt played basketball that he had him throw to the point that he developed a sore arm.  Before that the story is that Jones could throw the ball 70 yards or so from his knees.
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bennyl08

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #57 on: February 16, 2017, 12:14:23 am »

QBs lose yardage, sometimes big yardage, on sacks.  If it was that much easier to gain yardage running from the QB position every team would have a QB carrying the ball on the majority of its running plays.  Quinn Grovey was considered the best running QB at Arkansas during the modern era until Jones came along.  How many YPC did he average?

As for the number of games Jones played, how many of those were spent splitting time in Nutt's idiotic "two-headed quarterback" scheme?

The back who averaged more yards per attempt than anyone in Arkansas history got roughly eight carries per game in his career.

Rb's lose yards sometimes too. Sometimes big yards. The whole point of the qb having a higher ypc average is that they don't carry the ball on the majority of plays. For a qb, they only decide to run under the most ideal of conditions. The more often a qb runs, the lower their ypc goes. For example, Jones dropped down to 4.8 ypc when he had 129 attempts. His highest ypc was at his fewest attempts.

2001, matt split a lot of time. 2nd in ball touches as a qb with 101 touches or 26%.
2002: Matt was the main guy with 363 touches. 81% of all touches.
2003: 326 touches, 79%
2004: 347 touches, 92% of touches.

How many of those times that the backup qb came in in 2002 and 2003 was after Jones took a hit or was injured for a series or two?
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LZH

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #58 on: February 16, 2017, 05:55:04 am »

???

Clint and Mallet say hi.

Actually what Eastex said is 100% correct. MJ is the all-time leader in total yardage and it isn't really even close. It will be a long time before that record is broken.
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hawganatic

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #59 on: February 16, 2017, 10:42:22 am »

Actually what Eastex said is 100% correct. MJ is the all-time leader in total yardage and it isn't really even close. It will be a long time before that record is broken.

Have you looked at the total yardage stats?  He's got Tyler Wilson by 671 yards.  That's no where near the category of "isn't really even close."

If Cole Kelley turns out to be everything they are saying he is, and stays for three years to start, he'll have that #1 spot easily.
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hawganatic

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #60 on: February 16, 2017, 10:50:04 am »

How old are you?  In the 2001 season opener Nutt played four QBs.  Zak Clark, Ryan Sorahan, true freshman Tarvaris Jackson, and even wideout Gerald Howard...but not Matt Jones.  It wasn't until the third or fourth game that Jones played QB at all.

During his entire freshman year, despite being the national player of the week for winning the 7 OT duel on the road against Eli Manning, Jones only carried the ball something like 74 times...for an eight yard average.  He probably didn't throw more than 30 passes.

The next year, in 2002, Nutt had him p split time with TJack through the first six games.  The Dork said something like "I promised Tarvaris he would play the third series of every game." After being booed off the field following a dreadful home loss to Kentucky to drop to 3-3...a game in which inserting TJack right after Jones led a long TD drive killed momentum... Nutt finally announced Jones would be the full-time QB.  The Hogs won the next six straight to win the West and go to Atlanta for the SECCG.

Surely by that time Nutt had learned his lesson, right?  Wrong.  In 2003 he actually had Sorahan start at least half the games.  After Sorahan threw a pick six to put Florida up 33-7 with half the 4th quarter left, Gomer brought Jones back in and he produced three TDs in about six minutes to almost pull out the win (the Tony Bua spearing the QB on an interception at midfield game).

2004 was really the only season when Jones was the full-time QB, but even then Nutt tried to play Robert Johnson every chance he got.

The truth is Matt Jones was seldom the full-time QB during his years at Arkansas.  We have his brainiac coach to thank for that.  We also have Nutt to thank for Jones' arm trouble.  He was so upset because Matt played basketball that he had him throw to the point that he developed a sore arm.  Before that the story is that Jones could throw the ball 70 yards or so from his knees.

Ugh!!!  You can spin it anyway you want.  You can also take out the games from Wilson where he was playing mop up behind Mallett, or came in just to take a knee at the end of the game and recalculate everything.  Bottom line is Jones played in substantially more games than Wilson and Mallett, for not that much more yardage.

Jones was a great player.  Top 10 all time definitely.  Top 5 can probably make a case for.  The GOAT, there's just no logical argument you can make to support that claim.  Definitely not using the total yardage stats. 
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LZH

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #61 on: February 16, 2017, 12:08:00 pm »

Have you looked at the total yardage stats?  He's got Tyler Wilson by 671 yards.  That's no where near the category of "isn't really even close."

If Cole Kelley turns out to be everything they are saying he is, and stays for three years to start, he'll have that #1 spot easily.

And out of the top 10, only the gap between Clint Stoerner and Quinn Grovey is larger. Relatively, I'd think <200 yds is close...>500 yds isn't, especially when we are talking about a period stretched over years and years and years. You can argue what you consider being close is if you want to. But making all of these other points does absolutely nothing to refute the fact that Eastex was absolutely correct.
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hawganatic

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #62 on: February 16, 2017, 01:06:33 pm »

And out of the top 10, only the gap between Clint Stoerner and Quinn Grovey is larger. Relatively, I'd think <200 yds is close...>500 yds isn't, especially when we are talking about a period stretched over years and years and years. You can argue what you consider being close is if you want to. But making all of these other points does absolutely nothing to refute the fact that Eastex was absolutely correct.

Jones has Wilson by about 600 yards.  That would have been about two more games.  He plays one more game when Mallett was hurt in 2010, and if we had played in a bowl game in 2012 then he is probably sitting at #1.

I never said that Eastex was incorrect.  It's a hard fact that Jones is number 1 in total yards.  The difference in opinion is what that actually means.
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LZH

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #63 on: February 16, 2017, 01:28:31 pm »

Jones has Wilson by about 600 yards.  That would have been about two more games.  He plays one more game when Mallett was hurt in 2010, and if we had played in a bowl game in 2012 then he is probably sitting at #1.

I never said that Eastex was incorrect.  It's a hard fact that Jones is number 1 in total yards.  The difference in opinion is what that actually means.

My Bad. I thought you were the one who said "Clint and Mallett say hi".... I went back and looked and it was someone else. I lumped his comment in with yours. Mea culpa.
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #64 on: February 16, 2017, 01:55:20 pm »

Let me speak for myself.  What I mean is that only at Arkansas would someone who suggests that the school's all-time leader in producing both yards and TDs might be the greatest offensive player in program history have so many suggest he is loony and has no idea what he is talking about.

Florida had Emmitt Smith, a phenom in college AND the leading ground gainer in NFL history.  Do you think if someone suggested Tim Tebow...who I assume holds Florida records for total offense and TD responsibility...might be the greatest offensive player in Gator history other fans would be outraged and tell him he's off his rocker?  Or, if you think Tebow is clearly the best, would casting a vote for Emmitt get the same reaction?

Let's try basketball, too.  Both Shaquille O'Neal and Pistol Pete Maravich played at LSU.  If there was a thread about whether LSU would have won the NCAA tournament if Shaq had played on their 1980s team that made it to the Final Four, do you think it would be likely for numerous people to be incensed that O'Neal was getting so much attention when Maravich was the greatest Tiger to ever lace up a pair of sneakers and wear floppy socks?

Probably not, but we eat our own at Arkansas.
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #65 on: February 16, 2017, 02:05:07 pm »

Ugh!!!  You can spin it anyway you want.  You can also take out the games from Wilson where he was playing mop up behind Mallett, or came in just to take a knee at the end of the game and recalculate everything.  Bottom line is Jones played in substantially more games than Wilson and Mallett, for not that much more yardage.

Jones was a great player.  Top 10 all time definitely.  Top 5 can probably make a case for.  The GOAT, there's just no logical argument you can make to support that claim.  Definitely not using the total yardage stats. 

When Matt graduated he was second in the history of the Southeastern Conference in career yards per play.  That's taking his total offense of 8,392 yards and dividing it by his total number of rushing and passing attempts, 1,137.  His career 7.38 ypp were behind only Florida Heisman winner Danny Wuerrfel.  He ranked ahead of Peyton, Eli, and Archie Manning...Tim Couch...Joe Namath...B_e_r_t Jones...Eric Zeier...and every other player in SEC history.

I think he would have been tied or slightly ahead of Bo Jackson on the highest career yards per rushing attempt list, but his genius coach couldn't seem to find a way to get a guy who averaged 8 yards per attempt one year, 7.4 another, and 7.5 in a third the 400 career carries he needed to qualify for the record.

That's what Jones did on a per-play basis, which is more informative than the number of games he played considering how many of those were split with other QBs.
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LZH

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #66 on: February 16, 2017, 02:29:14 pm »

Let me speak for myself.

But we were doing such a good job speaking FOR you.....
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HogScoutMaster

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #67 on: February 16, 2017, 03:00:37 pm »

No, not with Matt Jones. With Ryan Mallett, yes.

PLEASE !!!! Mallett shouldn't even be allowed to hold Jones's jockstrap!
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Biggus Piggus

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #68 on: February 16, 2017, 03:43:12 pm »

PLEASE !!!! Mallett shouldn't even be allowed to hold Jones's jockstrap!

I should hope not. Got to have some discipline.
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HiggiePiggy

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #69 on: February 16, 2017, 05:27:17 pm »

This is a thread that shows how stats can make you look better than what you really were.  Mallett and Wilson are the best 2 qbs that Arkansas has seen in the 25 years they have been in the SEC. 
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #70 on: February 17, 2017, 12:03:10 am »

This is a thread that shows how stats can make you look better than what you really were.  Mallett and Wilson are the best 2 qbs that Arkansas has seen in the 25 years they have been in the SEC. 

Mallett is the best passer in Arkansas history.  He also played for the best offensive coach we ever had.  That made for a lethal combination.
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hawganatic

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #71 on: February 17, 2017, 09:43:04 am »


Probably not, but we eat our own at Arkansas.

Nobody is "eating our own."  I've already said that Jones is probably top 5 all time at Arkansas, and definitely top 10.  Some of us just don't agree with you that yards per play makes him the best ever here.  Also the fact that you have a HOF quarterback listed in your post should tell you that the per play stat doesn't mean what you think it means.

Besides wasn't your original argument about total yardage?  Guess you had to switch up because that argument has been debunked.
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hawganatic

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #72 on: February 17, 2017, 09:44:59 am »

PLEASE !!!! Mallett shouldn't even be allowed to hold Jones's jockstrap!

Why would he want to??
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #73 on: February 17, 2017, 09:50:30 am »

Besides wasn't your original argument about total yardage?  Guess you had to switch up because that argument has been debunked.

What total yardage argument has been debunked?  Still, going on 13 years since he played his last game, Matt Jones has produced more total yards than any player in Arkansas history.  He has also produced more touchdowns than anyone.  But you're right, in all the offensive categories that matter, which apparently involve everything but gaining yards and putting points on the board, he's severely lacking.
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hawganatic

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #74 on: February 17, 2017, 10:15:34 am »

What total yardage argument has been debunked?  Still, going on 13 years since he played his last game, Matt Jones has produced more total yards than any player in Arkansas history.  He has also produced more touchdowns than anyone.  But you're right, in all the offensive categories that matter, which apparently involve everything but gaining yards and putting points on the board, he's severely lacking.

Well you started into this thread talking about total yardage.  When I pointed out that he played in 20 more games than Mallett for not that much more yardage, you switched over to yards per play.

Do you honestly think Jones was a better quarterback than Mallett?  Or Tyler Wilson for that matter?
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hawganatic

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #75 on: February 17, 2017, 10:17:25 am »

What total yardage argument has been debunked?  Still, going on 13 years since he played his last game, Matt Jones has produced more total yards than any player in Arkansas history.  He has also produced more touchdowns than anyone.  But you're right, in all the offensive categories that matter, which apparently involve everything but gaining yards and putting points on the board, he's severely lacking.

Actually you know what, Casey Dick has more total yards than Darren McFadden.  I guess McFadden just wasn't as good a player as Dick was.
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #76 on: February 17, 2017, 11:11:59 am »

Well you started into this thread talking about total yardage.  When I pointed out that he played in 20 more games than Mallett for not that much more yardage, you switched over to yards per play.

Do you honestly think Jones was a better quarterback than Mallett?  Or Tyler Wilson for that matter?

Mallett is the best passing QB we have ever had.  Jones is by far the best running QB.  He was also an underrated and effective passer.  Speaking of Tyler Wilson, Matt threw one more TD pass than Wilson in almost 200 fewer attempts.  He threw 9 fewer TD passes than Mallett in 60 fewer attempts.  Considering Jones averaged a TD pass every 14 attempts, that number could have been considerably closer if he hadn't split time or had simply attempted more passes.

On the subject of attempting more passes, let's remember that Mallett and Wilson, both outstanding QBs, had the advantage of playing in a Bobby Petrino offense.  Matt played for Houston Nutt.

The thing about Jones was that he was simply a big play QB.  He was a threat to score, by ground or through the air, every time he touched the ball.  That's why the crowd came to it's feet every time he got the ball in his hands and started making his moves.  If you were there you know and remember that.

I'm not going to say Matt was better than Mallett.  I'm also not going to say Ryan was better than Matt.  They were two completely different players playing for vastly different coaches in totally different schemes.  I will say that Matt Jones is the most electrifying player I have ever seen at Arkansas.  Of course I'm only entering my 50th year of watching and studying the Hogs, so I may have missed a few.
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TrueBlue

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #77 on: February 17, 2017, 11:12:36 am »

I will NEVER understand the man-love some on HV have for Matt Jones. Someone that pisses away his talent and pro career gets no respect from me. Never-mind the senseless turnovers he had in crucial situations at Arkansas (example: vs. Texas 2004).

 
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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2017, 12:33:25 pm »

Jones is by far the best running QB. 

I will say that Matt Jones is the most electrifying player I have ever seen at Arkansas. 

These two statements I can agree with.  Although the only two true running quarterbacks I've seen since I've been a Razorback fan are Grovey and Jones. 

Most electrifying player, with McFadden and Mallett not too far behind.  Mallett every time I saw him looking deep I expected something big to happen.  McFadden with just the way he changed how the game is played.  Jones was a lot of fun to watch when he got into the open field.
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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2017, 12:43:28 pm »

But Matt Jones was a QB during Nutt's tenure...  ???
Was he or was he the best athlete on the field, receiving a direct snap?
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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2017, 01:55:53 pm »

I'm curious to see where Easter stands on the best kickoff returners.

On the one hand, Dennis Johnson has the most yards, in the entire SEC actually, unless he has since been surpassed. However, IIRC, he doesn't rank top 10 in ypr. He simply had a ridiculous number of opportunities to return kicks. Felix otoh, is much higher in average yards per return, but he didn't have quite as many opportunities to return.
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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2017, 02:41:01 pm »

I'm curious to see where Easter stands on the best kickoff returners.

On the one hand, Dennis Johnson has the most yards, in the entire SEC actually, unless he has since been surpassed. However, IIRC, he doesn't rank top 10 in ypr. He simply had a ridiculous number of opportunities to return kicks. Felix otoh, is much higher in average yards per return, but he didn't have quite as many opportunities to return.

Those two are the obvious choices as the best kick returners of the last 50 years.  I would rate them as being very close with Felix probably getting the nod.  The best return man of all time at Arkansas is Ken Hatfield.  He led the nation in punt returns his last two years...as did Lance Alworth, but Hatfield returned for more yards and a higher average...and was also a dangerous interception returner as a safety.
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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2017, 08:04:16 pm »

I will NEVER understand the man-love some on HV have for Matt Jones. Someone that pisses away his talent and pro career gets no respect from me. Never-mind the senseless turnovers he had in crucial situations at Arkansas (example: vs. Texas 2004).

 

Hater...
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2017, 09:46:21 pm »

I will NEVER understand the man-love some on HV have for Matt Jones. Someone that pisses away his talent and pro career gets no respect from me. Never-mind the senseless turnovers he had in crucial situations at Arkansas (example: vs. Texas 2004).

How many times did Darren McFadden fumble in one game against LSU?  Three?  Jones wasn't the Lone Ranger when it came to putting the ball on the ground.

On the other hand, Bill Burnett scored something like 49 TDs in three seasons and never once fumbled.
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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2017, 10:12:00 pm »

So you think Jones would have beat out Jason White, a Heisman winner and runner up a second year?
I don't get it, Big Dan
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lumphog

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #85 on: February 18, 2017, 10:15:18 pm »

Was he or was he the best athlete on the field, receiving a direct snap?
YEP....And FUN to watch......You just can't reach some people
Matt was ahead of his time & with a healthy shoulder would have been "THE" NFL QB
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Peter Porker

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #86 on: February 18, 2017, 10:16:20 pm »

Yes, that offense would have been unstoppable.
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hawgXi

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2017, 08:23:45 am »

Yes.  Or, better question:

What would Oklahoma have done with Matt Jones?  Probably two national championships and at least one Heisman trophy...

good point, ish
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hawgXi

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #88 on: February 19, 2017, 09:01:15 am »

Mallett is the best passing QB we have ever had.  Jones is by far the best running QB.  He was also an underrated and effective passer.  Speaking of Tyler Wilson, Matt threw one more TD pass than Wilson in almost 200 fewer attempts.  He threw 9 fewer TD passes than Mallett in 60 fewer attempts.  Considering Jones averaged a TD pass every 14 attempts, that number could have been considerably closer if he hadn't split time or had simply attempted more passes.

On the subject of attempting more passes, let's remember that Mallett and Wilson, both outstanding QBs, had the advantage of playing in a Bobby Petrino offense.  Matt played for Houston Nutt.

The thing about Jones was that he was simply a big play QB.  He was a threat to score, by ground or through the air, every time he touched the ball.  That's why the crowd came to it's feet every time he got the ball in his hands and started making his moves.  If you were there you know and remember that.

I'm not going to say Matt was better than Mallett.  I'm also not going to say Ryan was better than Matt.  They were two completely different players playing for vastly different coaches in totally different schemes.  I will say that Matt Jones is the most electrifying player I have ever seen at Arkansas.  Of course I'm only entering my 50th year of watching and studying the Hogs, so I may have missed a few.

thanx for dusting this off for us, eastex.

btw, do you still have the old spread sheet on jones compared to other UofA QB?

matt jones legacy to college football:  after matt jones leading the hogs to a huge victory over the horns in austin in 2003, mack brown was inspired (and had sense enough) to change his offensive philosophy to copy matt's skill set & game plan for his future 2005 NC champ winning QB vince young.

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2017, 10:14:03 pm »

Matt lead the team to victory against Eli Manning and ole miss in one of the greatest football games ever played.
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hawgXi

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2017, 07:50:00 am »

Matt lead the team to victory against Eli Manning and ole miss in one of the greatest football games ever played.

matt led the team to victory against the pillsbury throwboy, jared lorenzen, in one of the greatest football games ever played.

in the post game, chuck barrett asked CHDN what he thought about MJ performance, & hootie replied:  "I thought ryan sorahan had a great game too"
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2017, 09:30:01 am »

matt led the team to victory against the pillsbury throwboy, jared lorenzen, in one of the greatest football games ever played.

in the post game, chuck barrett asked CHDN what he thought about MJ performance, & hootie replied:  "I thought ryan sorahan had a great game too"

Thanks for ruining my breakfast.  LOL.

Nutt was going to ride his magnificent 2-headed quarterback "strategy" into the ground.  He had already cost us a game against Florida with it that season, as well as the Tennessee and Kentucky games the year before, so by all means he needed to keep on keeping on.

By the way, here are Jones' and Sorahan's stats from that game:

Jones:  16 completions, 25 attempts, 260 yards, 3 TDs, 0 interceptions
           15 rushes, 112 yards, 1 TD
           Jones also completed two 2-point conversion passes to keep the game going in OT

Sorahan:  1 completion, 3 attempts, 11 yards, 0 TD, 0 interceptions
               3 rushes, negative 17 yards

Jones put up a then Arkansas record 372 yards and 4 TDs in 40 combined rushes and passes.  Sorahan accounted for negative 6 yards.  So yeah, I can see why Nutt needed to point out the importance of his decision to play Sorahan, too.  In a 71-63 game in which every possession was critical in determining the difference between victory and defeat, it was important that the Hogs lose yardage on some of them.
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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #92 on: February 20, 2017, 05:21:38 pm »

Thanks for ruining my breakfast.  LOL.

Nutt was going to ride his magnificent 2-headed quarterback "strategy" into the ground.  He had already cost us a game against Florida with it that season, as well as the Tennessee and Kentucky games the year before, so by all means he needed to keep on keeping on.

By the way, here are Jones' and Sorahan's stats from that game:

Jones:  16 completions, 25 attempts, 260 yards, 3 TDs, 0 interceptions
           15 rushes, 112 yards, 1 TD
           Jones also completed two 2-point conversion passes to keep the game going in OT

Sorahan:  1 completion, 3 attempts, 11 yards, 0 TD, 0 interceptions
               3 rushes, negative 17 yards

Jones put up a then Arkansas record 372 yards and 4 TDs in 40 combined rushes and passes.  Sorahan accounted for negative 6 yards.  So yeah, I can see why Nutt needed to point out the importance of his decision to play Sorahan, too.  In a 71-63 game in which every possession was critical in determining the difference between victory and defeat, it was important that the Hogs lose yardage on some of them.

The problem with Nutt, or one of the problems with Nutt, is he couldn't say no to a player.  Sorahan was probably working his ass off in practice but didn't have the physical ability to make it work.  Jones, who by most reports, wasn't a great practice player, had more physical talent than anybody on the team and lit it up on game day.

Think it really rubbed Nutt that Jones was as good as he was without working hard in practice and let that get in the way of winning.
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #93 on: February 20, 2017, 07:54:00 pm »

Nutt was a Friday night hero who didn't have the talent to succeed, or really even play much, at the college level.  When Ron Calcagni put him on the bench at Arkansas he left his home state and went to Oklahoma State so he could ride the pine there, too.

He wanted to punish Matt for having the ability to do what he couldn't do.  Unfortunately for him, though, he needed Matt to win games for him.  The need to stay employed trumped his desire to teach Jones a lesson.

Combine that with the fact that Nutt is not very intelligent and you have the recipe for Gomer thinking he had come up with something brilliant with his "2 headed quarterback" foolishness.  Matt and Zak.  Matt and TJack.  Matt and Sorahan.

All we really had was one QB making all the plays interspersed with periods of futility while Nutt indulged his stupid idea.
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bacon&eggs

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #94 on: February 20, 2017, 10:49:50 pm »

No. Just my 2 cents but the issue was Coach Nutt, not his QB. And LSU was the best 2 loss team in the nation [sic].
Still, hard to imagine a better combo in the backfield than Jones and Dmac, Jones and Hillis.
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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #95 on: February 21, 2017, 01:14:50 am »

Mallett is the best passer in Arkansas history.  He also played for the best offensive coach we ever had.  That made for a lethal combination.

Image what he could do at TE with CBB.
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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #96 on: February 21, 2017, 10:11:55 am »

As much fun as MJ was in his time at QB, he should have been a WR the entire time.

If MJ had had half the drive of Tebow he could have been a very good college QB , he simply didn't have the arm to be a great QB, but his work ethic prevented him from even being a good one.
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EastexHawg

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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #97 on: February 21, 2017, 10:57:52 am »

If MJ had had half the drive of Tebow he could have been a very good college QB , he simply didn't have the arm to be a great QB, but his work ethic prevented him from even being a good one.

Seriously?  I believe he was in the top ten in SEC history in both total offense and TDs produced when he graduated.  I wish I had the list in front of me.  I would like for people who think Matt wasn't a "good" QB to point out all the other guys in the top 20, half of whom would have been behind him on the list, who weren't any good.

Ron Zook said Matt was the best player in the SEC his last two years.  Nick Saban said he won more games for his team than anyone.  Lou Holtz said he was the MVP of the conference.  Matt must have been the greatest athlete since Jim Thorpe to be that good, in the best football conference in America, without even trying.
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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #98 on: February 21, 2017, 12:06:03 pm »

Here's a little Tim Tebow vs Matt Jones.

Remember, in Tebow's 4 years at Florida, he had 2 National Championship teams around him. This included excellent receivers, running backs and especially offensive line. There's no way a so-so passer without lightening quick feet could thrive like he did without those great offensive lines. Take away all that talent—probably the best stretch Florida ever had—and Tebow is barely honorable mention all conference.

Matt, on the other hand, didn't have that luxury. He did it largely on his own. Our offense was great Matt's junior year (Ced Cobbs' senior year). Overall our team wasn't very good Matt's senior year.

How about this comparison—
Matt rushed 382 times for 2535 yards (6.6 per carry).

Tebow rushed 692 times for 2947 yards (4.25 per).
That is 300 MORE rushing attempts than Matt. If you take out Matt's measly 4.8 yards-per-carry average his soph year, he would have averaged about 7.5 ypc for his career.


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Re: If Matt Jones was the QB in 06, does Arkansas beat LSU and Florida?
« Reply #99 on: February 21, 2017, 01:08:06 pm »

I will NEVER understand the man-love some on HV have for Matt Jones. Someone that pisses away his talent and pro career gets no respect from me. Never-mind the senseless turnovers he had in crucial situations at Arkansas (example: vs. Texas 2004).


We are talking about Matt NOT Clint
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