Once and for all on Byers

[woodrow hog call]

So now we are going to have people calling in to Drive Time, or Bo's show, swearing up and down that Byers made a 32 on his ACT and CBB still wouldn't offer him. I can hear Rainwater now trying to talk somebody down from that.

[Porked Tongue]

GPA
Core Class Credits
ACT
Attendance

All these factored into the reason he's not Bama(or UA) bound.

Without trashing him you should be able to understand the implications of that.

[ricepig]

GPA
Core Class Credits
ACT
Attendance

All these factored into the reason he's not Bama(or UA) bound.

Without trashing him you should be able to understand the implications of that.

My question is this, he's stated that he will enroll at Bama in January 2018, how?

[Hogfan46]

My question is this, he's stated that he will enroll at Bama in January 2018, how?

I would take that with a grain of salt. He also said he didn't know why Arkansas wasn't offering him.

[ricepig]

I would take that with a grain of salt. He also said he didn't know why Arkansas wasn't offering him.

Oh, I didn't believe it, I was just wondering if it was even possible.

[Vantage 8 dude]

I've become more and more convinced that we will never have the "once and for all of Byers". This will doubtless be going on and on until the kid eventually has no more college eligibility wherever (assuming he does) plays.

[LZH]

Colleges and Universities don't come recruiting kids based on their ACT scores unless it is a near perfect score maybe.  However, a 32 on an ACT is NOT a dime a dozen score.  In fact, if your children scored that high on their ACT, they could very well be making money from a college to attend.  Takes a lot of applications and ground work during their SR year of H.S., but those are incredibly good scores and you are doing your children and others a disservice by understating their value.  If you truly believe that and/or your children did not have many options, I would be interested to know what their school guidance counselor did to assist.  I have a son that graduated from one of our nation's most prestigious schools and he didn't have a 32 on his ACT.  Those scores are NOT a dime a dozen!

The first statement is certainly true. My daughter made a 25 or 26 and she was offered a full-ride to Alabama, Arkansas State, SMU, and of course Arkansas.

[hawgfan4life]

My children attend/attended the University of Arkansas, both receiving Chancellor scholarships, 4 years apart. The first had a 31 with a 32 super score, the second made a 32. They both had over 4.0, with the second one around a 4.13. They both applied to several prestigious private schools and weren't given scholarships that equated to what a Chancellor's scholarship paid, percentage wise. They both received additional scholarship money and chose to "bank" the money in their fully funded college fund from their parents.

If you think a 32 and 4.0 is going to get your education paid for at Yale, Wash U., NYU, Syracuse, or Vanderbilt, then good luck. I'm not belittling their achievements at all, but those scores are just "average" for the incoming freshman classes for those schools.

When you are talking about Yale and other prestigious and private universities, you are talking about mostly elite students from around the world and nation.  32 might be closer to average there.  It is like saying your kid is an average sprinter because he barely runs 100m under 10 seconds at the olympics.

32 is an excellent score and gets you a free education with bank at UCA, UofA, ASU, and etc.  You come on hogville acting like 32 doesn't get anything and is average and then drop at Yale.  Wow!

[ricepig]

When you are talking about Yale and other prestigious and private universities, you are talking about mostly elite students from around the world and nation.  32 might be closer to average there.  It is like saying your kid is an average sprinter because he barely runs 100m under 10 seconds at the olympics.

32 is an excellent score and gets you a free education with bank at UCA, UofA, ASU, and etc.  You come on hogville acting like 32 doesn't get anything and is average and then drop at Yale.  Wow!

Umm....no it doesn't, not at all of these. There are 90 scholarships that pay $17,500 at the university, at that's not the cost of attendance, lol.

http://catalog.uark.edu/undergraduatecatalog/financialaidandscholarships/scholarshipsfornewstudents/

And I'd bet a lot of money, that no one receiving one of those Fellowships, only made a 32.

[hawgfan4life]

There is a hole in the system.  Read pages 48-49.

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/2014-15_AAA_Handbook.pdf

Players that fall below 2.0 go into SIP (Supplemental Instruction Program).  They have one semester to show a 0.1 improvement and two semesters to get back to a 2.0.  Here's the catch.  If an athlete is registered in Special Education
Rule 11 (D), there is no minimum GPA requirement.  I'm not sure how Byers was classified, but other players have been eligible by AAA rules, but were nowhere close to being college ready.   

If a student is in Special Education, they have an individual education plan that must be met to remain eligible.  GPA is not a factor but an IEP is generally going to require a student to pass their core classes.  Failure to do so would be failing to meet the IEP and being ineligible.  Also, to be on the supplemental plan or SIP, the student has to have passed at least 4 core classes.  once there, the athlete has to get a 2.0 GPA by second semester.  In other words, a player can't be in SIP two seasons in a row.

[Porked Tongue]

In other words, a player can't be in SIP two seasons in a row.

He can't be in SIP two "semesters" in a row.  Thus, it's possible to play fall football and then not be able to play Spring sports.  Get right and then repeat the very same thing the next year.

[Tusks]

Mr. Blutarsky.....0.0........

Glad to be thought of.

[ricepig]

Glad to be thought of.

Might as well join the freaking Peace Corps.......

[Oklahawg]

Kentucky had a top 5 RB recruit that UA chased briefly when Nutt was here. Joe Young, is that the right name? Anyway, UA academic people told Nutt there was no use in wasting resources recruiting the player. Seems the kid was severely learning disabled. He was able to play in HS (reasons above) but could not begin to gain admission to a 4-year institution. A JUCO visit would still require an associate's degree. There is no way around the rigor of college-level learning at a JUCO (without a significant flag from the NCAA Clearinghouse).

I saw this first-hand about 20 years ago. Kid was about 6-2 x 210, and had 4.5 or close speed. He was a top three in his classification in one of the sprints (hurdles?) in track, either the 60 or 110. But, he took only special ed classes. He couldn't read well enough to get a driver's license. Lasted about 6 weeks at a JUCO. Couldn't read the playbook (RB) and couldn't pass an assignment. Done.

[hogsanity]

When you are talking about Yale and other prestigious and private universities, you are talking about mostly elite students from around the world and nation.  32 might be closer to average there.  It is like saying your kid is an average sprinter because he barely runs 100m under 10 seconds at the olympics.

32 is an excellent score and gets you a free education with bank at UCA, UofA, ASU, and etc.  You come on hogville acting like 32 doesn't get anything and is average and then drop at Yale.  Wow!

32 used to be the magic #, but it is not anymore. It will get some good scholarships, and at some places a full ride if coupled with excellent grades AND a good resume of service work and community involvement. It is not like it used ot be though when a 32 got you offers from everywhere.

Odd thing on Yale and other ivy league schools, 32 plus the other stuff will get you a free ride at those schools now if you are solidly middle to lower class. They are trying to be more economically diverse.

[DeltaBoy]

32 used to be the magic #, but it is not anymore. It will get some good scholarships, and at some places a full ride if coupled with excellent grades AND a good resume of service work and community involvement. It is not like it used ot be though when a 32 got you offers from everywhere.

Odd thing on Yale and other ivy league schools, 32 plus the other stuff will get you a free ride at those schools now if you are solidly middle to lower class. They are trying to be more economically diverse.

Sad 32 didn't get him in. 

[hogsanity]

Sad 32 didn't get him in. 

Didnt get who in?

[ricepig]

32 used to be the magic #, but it is not anymore. It will get some good scholarships, and at some places a full ride if coupled with excellent grades AND a good resume of service work and community involvement. It is not like it used ot be though when a 32 got you offers from everywhere.

Odd thing on Yale and other ivy league schools, 32 plus the other stuff will get you a free ride at those schools now if you are solidly middle to lower class. They are trying to be more economically diverse.

Which was my "dime a dozen" response. The statement was about how it was a full ride and money in your pocket anywhere, well there's lots wanting those spots at about any university. Unfortunately, or fortunately, mine couldn't qualify for the offer financial aid, so they decided to bank their college money and be 4th generation UofA graduates. I suspect the one up there now will go to grad school somewhere up East.

[hogsanity]

Which was my "dime a dozen" response. The statement was about how it was a full ride and money in your pocket anywhere, well there's lots wanting those spots at about any university. Unfortunately, or fortunately, mine couldn't qualify for the offer financial aid, so they decided to bank their college money and be 4th generation UofA graduates. I suspect the one up there now will go to grad school somewhere up East.

Oh there is no doubt with the act study courses, and being able to take college level courses in high school, 32 on the ACT is almost common. Heck when I was in school in the late 80's a 28 got me lots of offers from all over, now it gets you just about nothing.

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

I would take that with a grain of salt. He also said he didn't know why Arkansas wasn't offering him.

Which means he was also throwing the coaches under the bus IF they'd already talked to him about it

[Hogfan46]

Which means he was also throwing the coaches under the bus IF they'd already talked to him about it

No way the coaching staff could or would confirm that but it certainly seemed to many that is what occurred. 

[Rocky&Boarwinkle]

You and I are evidently old school. I don't remember the  required average average in my day but I believe it was a 2.00. Our tops was a 4.00. Today I understand it is a 6.00 because of so called AP courses which are a joke.
Our educational system is failing our students allowing them play and not pass their core subjects. It's been going on a long time. The "great" Shabazz was a prime example.

It is 2 out of 4 scale.  AP can give you up to a 5 for an A in that class. Most good students that take those classes might end up with a 4.3 or 4.5 because they get As in everything and some of them are 4s and some are 5s.  You ask how a kid can be eligible and I will explain it to you.  The state has a program called the SIP, in which a kid that is ineligible because of a sub 2.0 showing the semester before, goes to tutoring every single week of the semester they are playing in, and they are eligible for that current semester if they meet the guidelines of going twice a week to the tutoring.  Now that is the same if they had a 0.0 or a 1.95.  The reality is that many of these kids will yo-yo back and forth, with never actually acquiring a 2.0 cumulative GPA.

That is how these situations happen, and it has absolutely nothing to do with AP classes, which hare hardly a "joke".  They frequently require more work and reading than most of my freshman classes in college.

[bigstyx]

This is a kid with SEVERE learning disabilities. The majority of his classes are considered special education. His chances of classroom success at the HS level were slim at best. It will be the same at JUCO unless he is just passed through the system. His chances of ever qualifying to enter a D1 school are remote. U of A coaches were well aware of this, so didn't pursue what they knew was a lost cause. It is a very sad situation, but those are the facts.

[FANONTHEHILL]

This is a kid with SEVERE learning disabilities. The majority of his classes are considered special education. His chances of classroom success at the HS level were slim at best. It will be the same at JUCO unless he is just passed through the system. His chances of ever qualifying to enter a D1 school are remote. U of A coaches were well aware of this, so didn't pursue what they knew was a lost cause. It is a very sad situation, but those are the facts.

I don't know how Byers was classified, but as an additional comment regarding eligibility in Arkansas.  If a student is classified as Special Education, the 2.0 mentioned in previous posts doesn't matter.  There is no minimum GPA for Special Education students to participate in athletics.

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/2014-15_AAA_Handbook.pdf

Read pages 48-49 and look closely at Rule 11:D. 

This is such a touchy subject.  Kids can participate, but have an up hill climb to get into college.  It reminds me of the old days when kids would finish their eligibility in college without basic reading and writing skills. There was an outcry that kids were exploited.  Now unfortunately the system is allowing that to happen at the high school level.

[justmakeit2thebcs]

I don't know how Byers was classified, but as an additional comment regarding eligibility in Arkansas.  If a student is classified as Special Education, the 2.0 mentioned in previous posts doesn't matter.  There is no minimum GPA for Special Education students to participate in athletics.

http://members.ahsaa.org/public/userfiles/2014-15_AAA_Handbook.pdf

Read pages 48-49 and look closely at Rule 11:D. 

This is such a touchy subject.  Kids can participate, but have an up hill climb to get into college.  It reminds me of the old days when kids would finish their eligibility in college without basic reading and writing skills. There was an outcry that kids were exploited.  Now unfortunately the system is allowing that to happen at the high school level.

Unfortunately?   Are you saying a learning disabled kid should be allowed to play HS football?   There is a difference between not trying or showing up to class and not having the aptitude.

[Porked Tongue]

Unfortunately?   Are you saying a learning disabled kid should be allowed to play HS football?   There is a difference between not trying or showing up to class and not having the aptitude.

Or in some cases all the above.

[FANONTHEHILL]

What is "unfortunate" is the fact that kids make it through the system excelling at a sport and assuming that their future is secure.  If a college student completes their eligibility without necessary life skills, they have the oppurtunity to play professionally.  If a high school student gets through the system without what is required to move in to the next level, I feel the system is flawed.  Kids with disabilities should have every right to participate in athletics, but there needs to be some regulation within the AAA guidelines that makes it clear to the players and their families that the fact that they can qualify and  participate in sports in high school means nothing at the next level.  I don't feel that is communicated or regulated as well as it should be.

[hogsanity]

what is really sad is that their are programs available to help kids with learning issues, many outside of school and available at little or no cost yet most people do not bother having their kids in these programs.

[onebadrubi]

what is really sad is that their are programs available to help kids with learning issues, many outside of school and available at little or no cost yet most people do not bother having their kids in these programs.

I'm sure there were family around this kid that believe he was about to be the next bama stud on National TV for weeks in the fall and all over ESPN in the national championship, and the grades or attendance didn't matter.  All the while Nick knew the entire time he wasn't eligible.  That is what you call an enabler.

[Biggus Piggus]

What I gather from the Bama side is that they were unaware of Byers' academic situation; they liked him in camp; based on casual conversation, they thought he had a chance to get eligible; they offered way prematurely; and they kept up the charade after they found he had no prayer. They didn't want to reveal why they thought Byers could qualify + how "the process" fell short.

[Rocky&Boarwinkle]

The first statement is certainly true. My daughter made a 25 or 26 and she was offered a full-ride to Alabama, Arkansas State, SMU, and of course Arkansas.

how long ago was that? A 26 will get you some decent money, especially in state at like ASU or Tech, but it isnt getting free rides at out of state schools. we went through the whole process with a kid 2 years ago WHO did have a 32 and a 4.3 gpa. Scholarships for non-athletes aren't what they once were 25 years ago when I was shopping around for myself.

[LJHOG]

If your grades aren't good enough for athletic eligibility then they aren't going to be good enough for general admission.

Admissions isn't going to give preferential treatment to a walk on.

He works with the right tutor        and takes some summer school he can get eligible for admission.   

[Vantage 8 dude]

So now we are going to have people calling in to Drive Time, or Bo's show, swearing up and down that Byers made a 32 on his ACT and CBB still wouldn't offer him. I can hear Rainwater now trying to talk somebody down from that.

I would hope that whatever his ACT score the fact that he didn't qualify for whatever reason(s) academically or otherwise this would be the end of the discussion. He obviously didn't meet the minimum standards to sign; therefore, that SHOULD be the end of the conversation. However, knowing HV as I do doubtless the arguing/debate will go on for at least the next ten years. 

[Hog Fan...DOH!]

What I gather from the Bama side is that they were unaware of Byers' academic situation; they liked him in camp; based on casual conversation, they thought he had a chance to get eligible; they offered way prematurely; and they kept up the charade after they found he had no prayer. They didn't want to reveal why they thought Byers could qualify + how "the process" fell short.

Protects both the kid and the school at bit... should the school offer in the first place without having all the details.