Black coaches and the SEC

[TexHog188]

No doubt, Chizik looks like a bad hire and created an opening for complaints of bias and STUPIDITY.

[JIHawg]

What the black coaches need is a black Sexton.  A Don King for football coaches.  So far there is not one.  Coaching selections is about agents getting on the phone, planting stories, twisting arms, knowing the right buttons to push, calling the real power brokers and making a case, using the media when needed.

Once a black Sexton manifests, we will see more black head coaches.

[Tejano Jawg]

Why is Charlie Weiss still the coach at Notre Dame?  They fired Ty Willingham, who had a better record.  Is that racist?

In Notre Dame's case...that's a better example of STUPIDITY.

[TexHog188]

I like Weiss or Willingham as the coach of Norte Dame, because both are lousy.  Love me some Notre Dame loses.

[Hoggish1]

Auburn Alabama, population 49,000 (the loveliest Village on the Plains).

I don't know why Gill wasn't hired and I don't know if racism, in its many subtle forms, played a part. 

But it may have easily been his decision, after interviewing, that Auburn wasn't a good job/fit.  Afterall, he saw what happened to TT. A black coach needs to move into a job that will support him and where recruiting is maximised.  A move from NY should be done after careful consideration.

And with Lawder's reputation, it wouldn't be a stretch for Gill to think "that lovely village" is not a good fit.

I also think, even if he wanted to jump from cold, isolated Buffalo, that the real Plains are a better fit for a serious permanent jump to big time coaching, than a lovely, charming small southern Alabama town.

Frankly, for whatever reason(s) the parties did not connect, Gill is way better off at present staying in NY.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I have a lot of respect for your opinions, but I believe you're misrepresenting affirmative action.  Affirmative Action is not the hiring of unqualified black (or other minority candidates) in place of more qualified white ones, it's simply a way to ensure the qualified candidates get consideration. 

The firings of Dorrell, Prince, Willingham (at UW) weren't unjustified.  They didn't produce as coaches, and they were given the same treatment a white coach would get under the same circumstances.  They didn't produce, and they were fired.  However, doesn't it make sense that more than 50-60% of all college players are black, and yet that less than 25% of assistants are black and less than 3% of all head coaches are black (Most of the current crop of coaches graduated in the 1970s, but there were still black players playing the 1970s, so it doesn't make sense that very few of the current crop of assistants are black).

Why this has become a racial issue in the Auburn case is because an underqualified white candidate was hired over an obviously qualified black candidate.  That's why no one said anything about Arkansas hiring Bobby Petrino over Charlie Strong or Kevin Sumlin, etc.  Petrino has a better resume than either of them.  Also, the allegations over his wife aren't exactly helping Auburn's case.  Chizik has a horrible resume as a head coach, while Turner Gill has taken a program that has never been to a bowl game to winning its conference.  He went 2-10, 5-7, and 8-5, in three quick years, after Buffalo only won 10 games over the past 7 years, and had a few winless seasons .  Yeah it's the MAC, but everyone has access to the same types of players, Buffalo even less.  On top of that, everyone mentioned the Syracuse and Nebraska openings.  The fans wanted him hired at Nebraska simply because he's one of their own.  On top of that, he had only had two years of HC experience last year, and was 5-7 last year.  People were a bit unsure of his abilities.  I have no idea why Syracuse didn't hire him, but looking at their AD and Greg Robinson, I don't really trust Syracuse AD Darryl Gross. 

Just my opinion, but I don't think I am misrepresenting what "Affirmative Action" has been allowed to become. As I said above, I could care less what ethnicity a coach may be, all I care about is building winning programs. Unfortunately, there are those that have misused the Affirmative Action program to the extent that if a minority candidate wasn't hired, there were automatically allegations of discrimination. It was because of this that many universities, corporations and governments initiated "hiring quotas", which to me does nothing to solve the problem of discrimination and in facts, spawns reverse discrimination. This is how you wind up with less than qualified candidates in positions of responsibility.

I think Turner Gill has a bright future. He seems to be a sincerely honest and forthright man who cares deeeply for his players and coaches and obviously knows how to put a program together having coached at Nebraska under Osborne and Solich.

He also knows about what it takes to build smaller programs having coached at N. Texas and SMU. I think he is going to do fine. Do I think he was ready for an SEC level position? Maybe, maybe not. I haven't interviewed the guy and perhaps people thought he might be in over his head at Auburn and Nebraska.

Syracuse might be another story. What did they have to lose? The thing is, they might have been as fed up as everyone else who has suffered through having less of a program than what they wanted to have and were determined to get an established winner with a lot of experience, a "name" guy. I don't know. Just speculating.

I will say this. Auburn is a defensive minded school, so in that regard I can see why they went for a guy like Chizik. But you couldn't tell that he was with his defense being ranked 111th out of 119 this past season. Maybe I and others will be proven wrong with the test of time, but Chizik looks to be the worst possible hire Auburn could have made(yes, even worse than HDN).

[hawgsav1]

Just my opinion, but I don't think I am misrepresenting what "Affirmative Action" has been allowed to become. As I said above, I could care less what ethnicity a coach may be, all I care about is building winning programs. Unfortunately, there are those that have misused the Affirmative Action program to the extent that if a minority candidate wasn't hired, there were automatically allegations of discrimination. It was because of this that many universities, corporations and governments initiated "hiring quotas", which to me does nothing to solve the problem of discrimination and in facts, spawns reverse discrimination. This is how you wind up with less than qualified candidates in positions of responsibility.

I think Turner Gill has a bright future. He seems to be a sincerely honest and forthright man who cares deeeply for his players and coaches and obviously knows how to put a program together having coached at Nebraska under Osborne and Solich.

He also knows about what it takes to build smaller programs having coached at N. Texas and SMU. I think he is going to do fine. Do I think he was ready for an SEC level position? Maybe, maybe not. I haven't interviewed the guy and perhaps people thought he might be in over his head at Auburn and Nebraska.

Syracuse might be another story. What did they have to lose? The thing is, they might have been as fed up as everyone else who has suffered through having less of a program than what they wanted to have and were determined to get an established winner with a lot of experience, a "name" guy. I don't know. Just speculating.

I will say this. Auburn is a defensive minded school, so in that regard I can see why they went for a guy like Chizik. But you couldn't tell that he was with his defense being ranked 111th out of 119 this past season. Maybe I and others will be proven wrong with the test of time, but Chizik looks to be the worst possible hire Auburn could have made(yes, even worse than HDN).

Not to get into the politics of it, but hiring quotas and admissions quotas were ruled illegal by the Bakke Supreme Court decision in 1978.  Many states such as California and Michigan have removed all Affirmative Action Programs.  I'm sure people can point here and there to issues where people misuse the program or places where unqualified people are hired, but all in all, it's good to at least give everyone an equal chance.

Again, the race issue would not be a problem had Auburn hired a more qualified candidate.  Had they hired someone with a track record of winning this would be moot, but they didn't.  Now the question is, since it came down to Gill and Chizik, why was Chizik chosen?  You cannot eliminate race from that equation.  Now, if Chizik succeeds, which I highly doubt, then the question will become moot again, and Jacobs will be considered a smart man.  But until then...

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Not to get into the politics of it, but hiring quotas and admissions quotas were ruled illegal by the Bakke Supreme Court decision in 1978.  Many states such as California and Michigan have removed all Affirmative Action Programs.  I'm sure people can point here and there to issues where people misuse the program or places where unqualified people are hired, but all in all, it's good to at least give everyone an equal chance.

Again, the race issue would not be a problem had Auburn hired a more qualified candidate.  Had they hired someone with a track record of winning this would be moot, but they didn't.  Now the question is, since it came down to Gill and Chizik, why was Chizik chosen?  You cannot eliminate race from that equation.  Now, if Chizik succeeds, which I highly doubt, then the question will become moot again, and Jacobs will be considered a smart man.  But until then...

You know, if I were Auburn, I wouldn't have fired TT to begin with. Every program has its ups and downs......EVERY program. Auburn wouold have bounced back next year but TT didn't help his situation any by canning his new OC in the middle of the season. Dumb move. I think that kinda like HDN, TT kept his fingers in the recipe and aided in its failure. You would have thought he would have learned after watching HDN and his mistakes.

But aside from that and given the firing, I would have gone for a big name instead of Chizik or Gill(Auburn's AD ought to be fired) and offered them whatever it took to lure them to Auburn. Auburn gets my nomination for the, "Having Made the Biggest Move With Their Head Up Their Arse Award", for the year.

[donewithdale]

I'm not sure if its been mentioned or not but Joker Phillips = an SEC head coach in waiting officially.  This is more than most any other BCS conference can say.

As far as affirmative action, I can tell you the world's largest retailer does practice it at the corp office.  Managers are 'encouraged' to do so.  And I can tell you it does affect decisions as I've seen it multiple times firsthand.  Actually all the major corporations I have worked for and with (California included)make a major push for 'diversity'.  You cannot say that they aren't practicing affirmative action. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I'm not sure if its been mentioned or not but Joker Phillips = an SEC head coach in waiting officially.  This is more than most any other BCS conference can say.

As far as affirmative action, I can tell you the world's largest retailer does practice it at the corp office.  Managers are 'encouraged' to do so.  And I can tell you it does affect decisions as I've seen it multiple times firsthand.  Actually all the major corporations I have worked for and with (California included)make a major push for 'diversity'.  You cannot say that they aren't practicing affirmative action. 

I agree. It is still happening.

[donewithdale]

This may be a topic for its own thread, but can we make a list of black coaching candidates that today are qualified to be head coaches at mid to upper level BCS programs?  I'm not talking about Ms St, Iowa St, or private universities like Stanford or Duke where the academic restrictions limit recruiting, or pretty much the entire Big East.  Sincerely, what are the candidates?  I'm not familiar with the historically black college programs.  Any coaches there?  Or how about the NFL?

Charlie Strong - great resume as an asst coach and coordinator - no head coaching experience

Mike Singletary - Temporary coach of the 49er's, has had a couple of contraversial moments already, passed over once at Baylor and withdrew name second time

I would have thought Ron English was on his way when he was at Mich.  But how about now?

Garrick McGee and Lorenzo Ward look like they are up and comers. 

[hawgsav1]

You know, if I were Auburn, I wouldn't have fired TT to begin with. Every program has its ups and downs......EVERY program. Auburn wouold have bounced back next year but TT didn't help his situation any by canning his new OC in the middle of the season. Dumb move. I think that kinda like HDN, TT kept his fingers in the recipe and aided in its failure. You would have thought he would have learned after watching HDN and his mistakes.

But aside from that and given the firing, I would have gone for a big name instead of Chizik or Gill(Auburn's AD ought to be fired) and offered them whatever it took to lure them to Auburn. Auburn gets my nomination for the, "Having Made the Biggest Move With Their Head Up Their Arse Award", for the year.

Agreed.  Firing Tuberville put them into a crap position.  So on top of not having a good coach, they're under fire from all sides for making a stupid move.  I still can't believe that Tubby is out of the SEC before Nutty.

[hawgsav1]

I'm not sure if its been mentioned or not but Joker Phillips = an SEC head coach in waiting officially.  This is more than most any other BCS conference can say.

As far as affirmative action, I can tell you the world's largest retailer does practice it at the corp office.  Managers are 'encouraged' to do so.  And I can tell you it does affect decisions as I've seen it multiple times firsthand.  Actually all the major corporations I have worked for and with (California included)make a major push for 'diversity'.  You cannot say that they aren't practicing affirmative action. 

It is damn near impossible to not have diversity in California.  The population of California has a Latino plurality, and very large percentages of Asians, whites, blacks, and others.  It's almost impossible to NOT hire in a diverse manner.  I have no problem with promoting diversity in the workplace or saying affirmative action exists.  But to say that there are quotas in place are false.  They are illegal.  Also, affirmative action is not based on the hiring of unqualified minorities over other qualified candidates.  Anyone who tries to paint affirmative action in that light and anyone who supports those kinds of policies is flawed.

[donewithdale]

It is damn near impossible to not have diversity in California.  The population of California has a Latino plurality, and very large percentages of Asians, whites, blacks, and others.  It's almost impossible to NOT hire in a diverse manner.  I have no problem with promoting diversity in the workplace or saying affirmative action exists.  But to say that there are quotas in place are false.  They are illegal.  Also, affirmative action is not based on the hiring of unqualified minorities over other qualified candidates.  Anyone who tries to paint affirmative action in that light and anyone who supports those kinds of policies is flawed.

Nobody here is saying aff. action is the hiring of unqualified minorities.  And I understand official quotas are illegal.  But 'diversity' is listed on managers evaluations.  And their careers and salaries are affected by these evals.  You tell me how aff. action isn't alive and well. 

And back to the topic, can anyone add to the list of black coaches who would be qualified for a good BCS job?

[cypert2]

If Chizik was black he would of never been considered for the Auburn job. And no matter what his race he wouldn't even be given an interview by any other major college. Fact is, some rich white guys at Auburn wanted Chizik to be the coach. Why, I can't imagine.

[hawgsav1]

Nobody here is saying aff. action is the hiring of unqualified minorities.  And I understand official quotas are illegal.  But 'diversity' is listed on managers evaluations.  And their careers and salaries are affected by these evals.  You tell me how aff. action isn't alive and well. 

And back to the topic, can anyone add to the list of black coaches who would be qualified for a good BCS job?

Dewayne Walker-UCLA Defensive Coordinator

[hawgsav1]

Ron English

[hawgsav1]

I also found this list on rivals

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=652229

[donewithdale]

I also found this list on rivals

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=652229

Sumlin, Walker, Nix, Norton Jr (because of the SC connections and his name from his UCLA playing days)I could all see getting consideration.  But would or should a good BCS program hire them?  Or would it be a lower tier BCS program?  And I would pose that question for white career asst's as well.  What has Muschamp earned?  He has coached defenses at programs with very good recruiting bases, talent and quality head coaches.

And I wonder if English's rep has been damaged by the Cards' D even though he didn't recruit them.

[NuttSu]

If anyone screams racism,it should be white basketball players.

[The One]

There is no place for Socialism (Affirmative Action )in football nor our society.  Don't you just love the full weight of the government deciding on who should have a job or not!   The government such great decision for the "little man".  Like when Clinton lowered the standards of the Fannies for loans to people that couldn't and wouldn't pay their loans when people said it would lead to hyperinflation in a down turn in the economy. (kind of like Coach Nutt saying that AR couldn't recruit nationally)

Socialism needs to be rooted out like the cancer it is and burned kind of like Texas fans should be.

[Lake City Hog]

I heard an interesting take on the fact that both Strong and Gill being married to white women is really a factor in them not getting a chance at high level jobs. It seems that there is the idea out there that among single parent(black women) homes that them being married to a white woman causes some amount of distrust for the mothers. This was supposedly commented on by the black female sideline reporter for CBS, I believe. Not exactly the view that I had in mind.
I still believe that in the deep south, many of the universities are controlled by the established conservative white men and the idea of a black man and a white woman being married just does not fly with those folks. I am not saying that I agree or disagree I just believe it to be a fact. Someday that may not be a factor at all, someday skin color will not make a difference.

[Veritas Arkansas]

There is no place for Socialism (Affirmative Action )in football nor our society.  Don't you just love the full weight of the government deciding on who should have a job or not!   The government such great decision for the "little man".  Like when Clinton lowered the standards of the Fannies for loans to people that couldn't and wouldn't pay their loans when people said it would lead to hyperinflation in a down turn in the economy. (kind of like Coach Nutt saying that AR couldn't recruit nationally)

Socialism needs to be rooted out like the cancer it is and burned kind of like Texas fans should be.

Don't know much about socialism or AA do you?

[NuttSu]

There is no place for Socialism (Affirmative Action )in football nor our society.  Don't you just love the full weight of the government deciding on who should have a job or not!   The government such great decision for the "little man".  Like when Clinton lowered the standards of the Fannies for loans to people that couldn't and wouldn't pay their loans when people said it would lead to hyperinflation in a down turn in the economy. (kind of like Coach Nutt saying that AR couldn't recruit nationally)

Socialism needs to be rooted out like the cancer it is and burned kind of like Texas fans should be.

Good post. Im glad someone on here isnt scared to tell it like it is.

[bamabaseball]

who cares about the wife . but aub has the right to hire who the want not who the world tells them to hire. i dont think it was a color thing.there is a reason the other schools passed on him to.

[FATBACKHAWG]

In Notre Dame's case...that's a better example of STUPIDITY.

I agree with your observation

[socalhogcaller]

Not to get into the politics of it, but hiring quotas and admissions quotas were ruled illegal by the Bakke Supreme Court decision in 1978.  Many states such as California and Michigan have removed all Affirmative Action Programs.  I'm sure people can point here and there to issues where people misuse the program or places where unqualified people are hired, but all in all, it's good to at least give everyone an equal chance.

Again, the race issue would not be a problem had Auburn hired a more qualified candidate.  Had they hired someone with a track record of winning this would be moot, but they didn't.  Now the question is, since it came down to Gill and Chizik, why was Chizik chosen?  You cannot eliminate race from that equation.  Now, if Chizik succeeds, which I highly doubt, then the question will become moot again, and Jacobs will be considered a smart man.  But until then...

I'm afraid knowledgeable posts like this fall on deaf ears on this board.

[socalhogcaller]

There is no place for Socialism (Affirmative Action )in football nor our society.  Don't you just love the full weight of the government deciding on who should have a job or not!   The government such great decision for the "little man".  Like when Clinton lowered the standards of the Fannies for loans to people that couldn't and wouldn't pay their loans when people said it would lead to hyperinflation in a down turn in the economy. (kind of like Coach Nutt saying that AR couldn't recruit nationally)

Socialism needs to be rooted out like the cancer it is and burned kind of like Texas fans should be.

Lighten up McCarthy. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I'm afraid knowledgeable posts like this fall on deaf ears on this board.

It may seem informed, but if you think these things don't still exist and are happening everyday in corporate America, then you must work for a locally owned convenience store or something. On a corporate level, the mandate of "affirmative action" disguised as "diversity" continues to thrive and mid level/upper level management are evaluated on it's success or the lack thereof. The reality of the situation is what falls on deaf ears for some people.

That being said, I would agree that there is something "fishy" about the hiring of Chizik. I am ALWAYS for the best qualified candidate. Obviously I wasn't a part of the hiring process at Auburn, but I would find it a stretch to say he was the best qualified candidate that gives them the best possible chance for success in the future. I expect they will now(having rid themselves of TT) continue their downward slide for the next 2-3 years.

[TexHog188]

One of my billets as an Air National Guard Officer was in Military Equal Opportunity working directly for our Wing commander.  Each year we were required to generate a report that compared our unit demographics with the demographics of the counties where we recruit our members.  These reports were extremely detailed as to the race, gender, and ethnicity of each member of the unit.  If the number of minorities in the unit were not in line with the communities we recruited, we were required by the State and National Guard Bureau to develop a plan to recruit additional minorities.  These reports also tracked promotions, job assignments, command appointments, supervisory positions, temporary duty assignments, awards and decorations, etc....  The Wing Commander was held accountable for any "discrepancies" that showed that there may be any bias in the opportunities provided minorities vs non-minorities.  This was done under the auspicious of Diversity and Equal Opportunity, but there is no question that affirmative action was being employed here.

I do think it is a good idea to monitor such things to detect institutional bias in order to insure fairness in hiring and promotion. But there was certainly pressure applied from the highest levels to make sure your commander didn't end up on the naughty list.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

One of my billets as an Air National Guard Officer was in Military Equal Opportunity working directly for our Wing commander.  Each year we were required to generate a report that compared our unit demographics with the demographics of the counties where we recruit our members.  These reports were extremely detailed as to the race, gender, and ethnicity of each member of the unit.  If the number of minorities in the unit were not in line with the communities we recruited, we were required by the State and National Guard Bureau to develop a plan to recruit additional minorities.  These reports also tracked promotions, job assignments, command appointments, supervisory positions, temporary duty assignments, awards and decorations, etc....  The Wing Commander was held accountable for any "discrepancies" that showed that there may be any bias in the opportunities provided minorities vs non-minorities.  This was done under the auspicious of Diversity and Equal Opportunity, but there is no question that affirmative action was being employed here.

I do think it is a good idea to monitor such things to detect institutional bias in order to insure fairness in hiring and promotion. But there was certainly pressure applied from the highest levels to make sure your commander didn't end up on the naughty list.

Thank you. Many don't believe it is still in effect, but the truth is, it lives.

[Beaverfever]

I think the white wife thing might be a bigger issue than people realize.  A woman on first take was talking about this the other day.  She said many black women had a real problem with black men marrying white women and basically implied that having a black coach with a white wife could make recruiting very hard because black recruits' mothers wouldn't trust a black coach with a white wife. 

[nextlevel]

I think the white wife thing might be a bigger issue than people realize.  A woman on first take was talking about this the other day.  She said many black women had a real problem with black men marrying white women and basically implied that having a black coach with a white wife could make recruiting very hard because black recruits' mothers wouldn't trust a black coach with a white wife. 

Well, that sounds like a problem with "Blacks" so why is it being portrayed as a problem with the "whites".

[Brownie Tuggle]

The Money in the SEC is primarily White invested money. Football like Cotton is still king in the South. Cotton is gone! Auburn hird exactly what they wanted in Cheznik. Turner Gill just couldn't fit the bill at Auburn. I'm not sure which Black Coach could. Alabama, Arkansas, SC, Ole Miss, Tn, LSU and UGa. just have to much of a fan base that wouldn't support a Black Head Coach say in the likes that Arkansas did Houston Nutt. Take Charlie Weis at Notre Dame and base it on how quick Tyrone Willingham got the boot on a winning record. His Washington Huskie Squads were terrible enough to get fired for. But his Notre Dame Squads were not! The SEC can support a Black Basketball Coach a little easier. If you can rememeber the 1st two Nolan Years at Arkansas you can imagine what being a Black head Coach in Football might be like at say Alabama! Turner Gill deserves a better job than Auburn. Yet he still wont show up in the SEC when he's ready and polished for another run at a SEC job.

[Wild Bill Hog]

Do we even know if Gill wanted the job after investigating and interviewing?  In the interview I saw with him, he said the Auburn position wasn't a good fit.  He went on to say he didn't think it was racial at all.

[Wild Bill Hog]

The Money in the SEC is primarily White invested money. Football like Cotton is still king in the South. Cotton is gone! Auburn hird exactly what they wanted in Cheznik. Turner Gill just couldn't fit the bill at Auburn. I'm not sure which Black Coach could. Alabama, Arkansas, SC, Ole Miss, Tn, LSU and UGa. just have to much of a fan base that wouldn't support a Black Head Coach say in the likes that Arkansas did Houston Nutt. Take Charlie Weis at Notre Dame and base it on how quick Tyrone Willingham got the boot on a winning record. His Washington Huskie Squads were terrible enough to get fired for. But his Notre Dame Squads were not! The SEC can support a Black Basketball Coach a little easier. If you can rememeber the 1st two Nolan Years at Arkansas you can imagine what being a Black head Coach in Football might be like at say Alabama! Turner Gill deserves a better job than Auburn. Yet he still wont show up in the SEC when he's ready and polished for another run at a SEC job.

Why didn't Syracuse hire him?

[Brownie Tuggle]

Well, that sounds like a problem with "Blacks" so why is it being portrayed as a problem with the "whites".

That does have it's issues with momma! I mean some people wont understand it. But this would be a issue!!

[Brownie Tuggle]

Why didn't Syracuse hire him?

Because he didn't fit the bill at Syracuse either. Syracuse is not without it's own racial strife. Check out the Ernie Davis Story and Syracuse Football. The Ohio State's Michigan States's & other Big 10 schools might have recruited and played Black players way before the SEC. But you're lost if you think those players didn't go through certin aspects of racism up there. Duffy Daughetery the Head Coach at Michigan State number one rule to his Black ball players was leave the White Women alone and we'll be great!

[donewithdale]

The Money in the SEC is primarily White invested money. Football like Cotton is still king in the South. Cotton is gone! Auburn hird exactly what they wanted in Cheznik. Turner Gill just couldn't fit the bill at Auburn. I'm not sure which Black Coach could. Alabama, Arkansas, SC, Ole Miss, Tn, LSU and UGa. just have to much of a fan base that wouldn't support a Black Head Coach say in the likes that Arkansas did Houston Nutt. Take Charlie Weis at Notre Dame and base it on how quick Tyrone Willingham got the boot on a winning record. His Washington Huskie Squads were terrible enough to get fired for. But his Notre Dame Squads were not! The SEC can support a Black Basketball Coach a little easier. If you can rememeber the 1st two Nolan Years at Arkansas you can imagine what being a Black head Coach in Football might be like at say Alabama! Turner Gill deserves a better job than Auburn. Yet he still wont show up in the SEC when he's ready and polished for another run at a SEC job.

And the money in the Big 10, PAC 10, and every other BCS conference isn't 'white'? 

[Brownie Tuggle]

And the money in the Big 10, PAC 10, and every other BCS conference isn't 'white'? 

Different brand of folks in Pasdena than in Pascagoula!!

[Hawgon]

Different brand of folks in Pasdena than in Pascagoula!!

Which is of course, demonstrated by the fact that there are NO black head coaches in any of those conferences either.

[donewithdale]

Different brand of folks in Pasdena than in Pascagoula!!

I guess that is why SC has never had a black head coach, Neuheisal was hired over Walker to replace a black head coach and the PAC 10 has 0 black head coaches right now. 

[Brownie Tuggle]

Which is of course, demonstrated by the fact that there are NO black head coaches in any of those conferences either.

I guess you didn't notice the last two Black Pac-10 Coaches got fired Hawagon? Pac-10 2 SEC 1 in the the 2nd qtr!

[Brownie Tuggle]

I guess that is why SC has never had a black head coach, Neuheisal was hired over Walker to replace a black head coach and the PAC 10 has 0 black head coaches right now. 

Regardless, we both know that those folks in Pasadena are scared as hell of some of those folks in Pascaguola! Different brand of Folks is all am saying!

[Hawgon]

I guess you didn't notice the last two Black Pac-10 Coaches got fired Hawagon? Pac-10 2 SEC 1 in the the 2nd qtr!

I'm not sure of your point.  There were two in the Pac-10.  They are gone.  There was one in in the SEC.  He is gone.  I'm not getting that those Pac-10 guys are much more likely to hire a black coach from that.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Because he didn't fit the bill at Syracuse either. Syracuse is not without it's own racial strife. Check out the Ernie Davis Story and Syracuse Football. The Ohio State's Michigan States's & other Big 10 schools might have recruited and played Black players way before the SEC. But you're lost if you think those players didn't go through certin aspects of racism up there. Duffy Daughetery the Head Coach at Michigan State number one rule to his Black ball players was leave the White Women alone and we'll be great!

Heck, I believe that "hated" Oklahoma recruited and played black players before the SEC, Big Ten, Pac 10 or any of today's BCS conferences. I'm not sure, but I think the "ground breaker" there was a guy by the name of Prentiss Gautt, who went on to become the Commissioner of the Big Eight Conference.

[Brownie Tuggle]

I'm not sure of your point.  There were two in the Pac-10.  They are gone.  There was one in in the SEC.  He is gone.  I'm not getting that those Pac-10 guys are much more likely to hire a black coach from that.

I couldn't get you see my point if Jesus was standing next to me Hawgon! The Pac-10 has hired a Black Head Coach in Football at UCLA and Washington in down years at both schools. A Black Head Coach at Alabama at anytime is almost out of the question, as is a Black Coach at Tennessee in Football. You've got a better chance of a Black guy becoming President than becoming Head Coach of the Alabama Crimson Tide! Get my point?

[oppybrit]

I wonder what the reaction / opinion is from the WCA  ( white coaches & administrators) is........Oh, never mind..... that organization would be racist!! 

[jamie72921]

I see your point. It goes back a long ways man.. I went to Dallas as a child at 7 yrs old. I had to go to the WHITE restroom. I had no clue then.

I watched Martin Luther King at 9 and said to my Dad, I like the guy and what he stands for. My Dad was a white fletch from Chicago and said son, So do I.

Times change, To bad some people won't accept it.

It is not about the white/ black gig..It sould be about the right PERSON for the job. PERIOD. The Sec is lost in the smoke of the Civil War.. I rest my case.

Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat.

Many of you believe that segregation was defeated by the civil rights act of 64. It was, but only in the south.

So where can you go today and still see segregation alive and well? Did anyone say all across the northern midwest and Ohio River Valley?

You see, up north they were never segregated. This is because Black people weren't even allowed to live in white towns period. Instead they were forced to live in their "own" cities and towns.

See Saint Joe and Benton Harbor, Michigan for your example. Situations like this are present all across the northern United States today even.

"Seperate but Equal" didn't apply to "different". You can't force busing on "differnt" cities with "different" school districts either.

Let's look at SEC coaches, not just football.

How many black coaches have their been at the 4 biggest basketball programs of the ACC? 1.

How many black coaches have won NC's in the SEC? 2.

How many black head coaches are there in the ACC, Big East, Big 12, Big 10 and Pac 10 combined?

I think its time America wakes up to the fact the heart of Racism beats strongest on the East Coast and in the upper midwest.

[Hoggish1]

Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat.

Many of you believe that segregation was defeated by the civil rights act of 64. It was, but only in the south.

So where can you go today and still see segregation alive and well? Did anyone say all across the northern midwest and Ohio River Valley?

You see, up north they were never segregated. This is because Black people weren't even allowed to live in white towns period. Instead they were forced to live in their "own" cities and towns.

See Saint Joe and Benton Harbor, Michigan for your example. Situations like this are present all across the northern United States today even.

"Seperate but Equal" didn't apply to "different". You can't force busing on "differnt" cities with "different" school districts either.

Let's look at SEC coaches, not just football.

How many black coaches have their been at the 4 biggest basketball programs of the ACC? 1.

How many black coaches have won NC's in the SEC? 2.

How many black head coaches are there in the ACC, Big East, Big 12, Big 10 and Pac 10 combined?

I think its time America wakes up to the fact the heart of Racism beats strongest on the East Coast and in the upper midwest.

No question about it, jamie.  What else you got?