"one of the worst conditioned teams Ive ever been around" -Tom Ostrom (they always say)

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

I'll go with a coach who has been an assistant on a championship team, guided a team to an Elite 8 appearance, turned around our program, had multiple top 15 recruiting classes, SEC Freshman and Defensive Player of the Year, a SEC All tourney player, before a guy who's only claim to fame was playing on a corrupt kentucky squad and making it to the tournament 1 year out of 5 and oh yeah....winning big in the Sun Belt 2 out 5 years. And it was my fault that guy made the career move from Florida to Southern Alabama. Blame his career counselor.

and how many NCAAT wins did all those accolades get us again? Zero. Heath was a good man and a good recruiter but his teams underacheived every single year.

I'd rather have a coach that will actually get his team in shape.
A coach who had actually had some head coaching experience instead of a coach that had that great elite 8 year with another man's players.

Sounds like you would take Heath over just about anybody.

[gduchar]

I'll go with a coach who has been an assistant on a championship team, guided a team to an Elite 8 appearance, turned around our program, had multiple top 15 recruiting classes, SEC Freshman and Defensive Player of the Year, a SEC All tourney player, before a guy who's only claim to fame was playing on a corrupt kentucky squad and making it to the tournament 1 year out of 5 and oh yeah....winning big in the Sun Belt 2 out 5 years. And it was my fault that guy made the career move from Florida to Southern Alabama. Blame his career counselor.

do not feed the trolls people!!

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

I'll go with a coach who has been an assistant on a championship team, guided a team to an Elite 8 appearance, turned around our program, had multiple top 15 recruiting classes, SEC Freshman and Defensive Player of the Year, a SEC All tourney player, before a guy who's only claim to fame was playing on a corrupt kentucky squad and making it to the tournament 1 year out of 5 and oh yeah....winning big in the Sun Belt 2 out 5 years. And it was my fault that guy made the career move from Florida to Southern Alabama. Blame his career counselor.

do not feed the trolls people!!

it is really tough to not respond to retarded comments though.

[football-writer]

That's quite funny. Unfortunately you were not that understanding when we were winning 20+ and going to the NCAA's the past two years. Instead you were crying about style points and wishing for the 90's. Stick to football and your excitement over blowouts over North Texas and Louisianna Monroe.

Wait a minute....that's the same conference Pelphrey was in.....no wonder you think this was a great hire.

Since you know ...well, nothing...about me....I'm going to now quote Abe Lincoln:

It's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak (as you have) and remove all doubt.

[McKdaddy]

I'll go with a coach who has been an assistant on a championship team, guided a team to an Elite 8 appearance, turned around our program, had multiple top 15 recruiting classes, SEC Freshman and Defensive Player of the Year, a SEC All tourney player, before a guy who's only claim to fame was playing on a corrupt kentucky squad and making it to the tournament 1 year out of 5 and oh yeah....winning big in the Sun Belt 2 out 5 years. And it was my fault that guy made the career move from Florida to Southern Alabama. Blame his career counselor.

and how many NCAAT wins did all those accolades get us again? Zero. Heath was a good man and a good recruiter but his teams underacheived every single year.

Sounds like you would take Heath over just about anybody.

Wow, it's hard to digest that we had 0 NCAAT wins in SH's 5 years.  Didn't NR take over a team devoid of talent (similar to SH) and by his 3rd season make the NCAAT?  Didn't NR win a NCAAT game in his 4th year?  Didn't NR make a Final 4 by his 5th season?  I'm not saying I had those same expectations for SH, but geez, 0 NCAAT wins in 5 years?!?  0?!?
Maybe Pel is the right guy for the job, maybe not, time will tell.  I've said it before and I can say it no more strongly -- after 5 years of SH (particularly the sour taste of the past 2 seasons) I was ready for a change REGARDLESS of the new hire.  Sunbelt coach, big 12 coach, Conf USA coach, etc.
Even if Pel doesn't get the job done, I'll still state that SH needed to be replaced....that's a chance you take in order to improve.  Yes you may go backwards, but the chance that you may go forwards makes the risk worth it imo.
Like many fans I had become despondent concerning the bball program.  Change was needed.

[Held Hawgstage]

Since you know ...well, nothing...about me....

Based on your comments....lets keep it that way. Here's a quote from swift since you're not that swift. "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Cheers

[football-writer]

Since you know ...well, nothing...about me....

Based on your comments....lets keep it that way. Here's a quote from swift since you're not that swift. "When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."

Cheers

Being in "confederacy" against someone who always has something negative to say about something that MAY be positive.  If you're right, I'll gladly eat a plate full of Crow.  But if you're proven wrong, get ready to hear everyone yell in unison, "I told you so!"
Calling yourself a true genius?  be careful not to pat yourself on the back too hard.  True geniuses never brag about being such.  I guess that leaves you out of that category.  As for me, I will just sit back and watch.  I'm no genius, but I'm also no doomsday prophet either..

[Dr Swineglove]

I'll go with a coach who has been an assistant on a championship team, guided a team to an Elite 8 appearance, turned around our program, had multiple top 15 recruiting classes, SEC Freshman and Defensive Player of the Year, a SEC All tourney player, before a guy who's only claim to fame was playing on a corrupt kentucky squad and making it to the tournament 1 year out of 5 and oh yeah....winning big in the Sun Belt 2 out 5 years. And it was my fault that guy made the career move from Florida to Southern Alabama. Blame his career counselor.

and how many NCAAT wins did all those accolades get us again? Zero. Heath was a good man and a good recruiter but his teams underacheived every single year.

Sounds like you would take Heath over just about anybody.

Wow, it's hard to digest that we had 0 NCAAT wins in SH's 5 years.  Didn't NR take over a team devoid of talent (similar to SH) and by his 3rd season make the NCAAT?  Didn't NR win a NCAAT game in his 4th year?  Didn't NR make a Final 4 by his 5th season?  I'm not saying I had those same expectations for SH, but geez, 0 NCAAT wins in 5 years?!?  0?!?
Maybe Pel is the right guy for the job, maybe not, time will tell.  I've said it before and I can say it no more strongly -- after 5 years of SH (particularly the sour taste of the past 2 seasons) I was ready for a change REGARDLESS of the new hire.  Sunbelt coach, big 12 coach, Conf USA coach, etc.
Even if Pel doesn't get the job done, I'll still state that SH needed to be replaced....that's a chance you take in order to improve.  Yes you may go backwards, but the chance that you may go forwards makes the risk worth it imo.
Like many fans I had become despondent concerning the bball program.  Change was needed.

So true... Heath did less with more than virtually any other coach in America.  With so many schollies up next year, they had to make a change.

[Held Hawgstage]

Didn't NR take over a team devoid of talent (similar to SH) and by his 3rd season make the NCAAT?  Didn't NR win a NCAAT game in his 4th year?  Didn't NR make a Final 4 by his 5th season?  I'm not saying I had those same expectations for SH, but geez, 0 NCAAT wins in 5 years?!? 

I think we can all agree Noland was Arkansas basketball, so much so, we all would like to get those days back. What he accomplished for the program, the university, and this states goes without question. He had a great run the first part of his tenure. I love Noland but his last years were ABISMAL. That said, I would hate to see him coach another institution. At this point, with these players, you cannot hope an unproven gets you there. Like football last season...this is the year when things can fall in line. I guess I have to hope Pelphrey doesn't blow it.

[Held Hawgstage]

So true... Heath did less with more than virtually any other coach in America.  With so many schollies up next year, they had to make a change.

Use the guy then spit him out. You guys just couldn't stand to see him succeed with his best team coming back. Based on what Pelphrey just recruited, I would be very concerned with the scholarships he will be handing out. We may have just mortgaged our future.

[gduchar]

So true... Heath did less with more than virtually any other coach in America.  With so many schollies up next year, they had to make a change.

Use the guy then spit him out. You guys just couldn't stand to see him succeed with his best team coming back. Based on what Pelphrey just recruited, I would be very concerned with the scholarships he will be handing out. We may have just mortgaged our future.

by succeed you mean eke out a 20 win season and back into the NCAA tourney to get seeded 12th and destroyed in the first round, correct?

[LuckyGiraffe]

Didn't NR take over a team devoid of talent (similar to SH) and by his 3rd season make the NCAAT?  Didn't NR win a NCAAT game in his 4th year?  Didn't NR make a Final 4 by his 5th season?  I'm not saying I had those same expectations for SH, but geez, 0 NCAAT wins in 5 years?!? 

I think we can all agree Noland was Arkansas basketball, so much so, we all would like to get those days back. What he accomplished for the program, the university, and this states goes without question. He had a great run the first part of his tenure. I love Noland but his last years were ABISMAL. That said, I would hate to see him coach another institution. At this point, with these players, you cannot hope an unproven gets you there. Like football last season...this is the year when things can fall in line. I guess I have to hope Pelphrey doesn't blow it.

Who is Noland???

[highdefhog]

You compare yourself to a "true genius" and you can't even spell Nolan?

[dotnet]

you guys have got to quit responding to his pro-heath crap.  I like Heath a lot and will root for USF, but I don't want every, if any, thread to mention him. 

The more you respond the more you'll get into these pointless discussions.

[Ugly Uncle]

Heath was a great man and a good coach.  I don't think he had what it took to get us to where we all wanted to be.  I am pretty sure of that.  Pelphrey is an unknown entity.  But that gives us hope.

That being said, Heath brought our program back from something that in my opinion was worse than the death penalty.  Racism charges, and a complete defection of players from a team that was not that good anyway.  He had trouble just filling the line up his first year.  He did it all with class, dignity, and honor.  I am proud that Stan Heath was our coach.  I am now a Stan Heath fan.  I hope he does well at South Florida and makes them, or moves on to a power school and proves all of us wrong.  That guy is a class act.  I would hope that we all could see what a great man we lost...even if he wasn't the greatest of coaches.

[Held Hawgstage]

Didn't NR take over a team devoid of talent (similar to SH) and by his 3rd season make the NCAAT?  Didn't NR win a NCAAT game in his 4th year?  Didn't NR make a Final 4 by his 5th season?  I'm not saying I had those same expectations for SH, but geez, 0 NCAAT wins in 5 years?!? 

I think we can all agree Noland was Arkansas basketball, so much so, we all would like to get those days back. What he accomplished for the program, the university, and this states goes without question. He had a great run the first part of his tenure. I love Noland but his last years were ABISMAL. That said, I would hate to see him coach another institution. At this point, with these players, you cannot hope an unproven gets you there. Like football last season...this is the year when things can fall in line. I guess I have to hope Pelphrey doesn't blow it.

Who is Noland???

Touche. That's what I get for getting ahead of myself. If anyone was going to make me put my foot in my mouth it was going to be....well...me.

[Held Hawgstage]

Heath was a great man and a good coach.  I don't think he had what it took to get us to where we all wanted to be.  I am pretty sure of that.  Pelphrey is an unknown entity.  But that gives us hope.

That being said, Heath brought our program back from something that in my opinion was worse than the death penalty.  Racism charges, and a complete defection of players from a team that was not that good anyway.  He had trouble just filling the line up his first year.  He did it all with class, dignity, and honor.  I am proud that Stan Heath was our coach.  I am now a Stan Heath fan.  I hope he does well at South Florida and makes them, or moves on to a power school and proves all of us wrong.  That guy is a class act.  I would hope that we all could see what a great man we lost...even if he wasn't the greatest of coaches.

That was a classy post. If only there were more of you.

[JoeSlam]

Trying to deflect attention from the message by criticizing the messenger is one of the oldest tricks in the book, and also one that most intelligent folks can see right through.   

Oh yeah...he was completely innocent...just trying to get this message out to the public. Don't fault him for how he tried to put out the message. Whatever...again...myopic view.

How else was he supposed to put the message out there?

Oh yeah i forgot, ignore the facts and paint a rosy picture about how things really were.

Sounds about like nutt people.

ARRGGGHHHH!!!! Can I not read a single topic here without someone bringing up Nutt? I seriously thought that this stuff would not be in the BBall forum.

dissapointing.

[Hollywood_HOGan45]

Heath was a great man and a good coach.  I don't think he had what it took to get us to where we all wanted to be.  I am pretty sure of that.  Pelphrey is an unknown entity.  But that gives us hope.

That being said, Heath brought our program back from something that in my opinion was worse than the death penalty.  Racism charges, and a complete defection of players from a team that was not that good anyway.  He had trouble just filling the line up his first year.  He did it all with class, dignity, and honor.  I am proud that Stan Heath was our coach.  I am now a Stan Heath fan.  I hope he does well at South Florida and makes them, or moves on to a power school and proves all of us wrong.  That guy is a class act.  I would hope that we all could see what a great man we lost...even if he wasn't the greatest of coaches.

No doubt
Coach Heath was all class, he was a good recruiter, he also dug our program out of the ground and Im grateful for that.



Of the big two sports, i would have rather kept heath than another certain coach in a high profile job.
Have met the man a couple times and was very very impressed. Coach Heath was very fan friendly. I wish him nothing but success at USF much like most Arkansas fans.


With that said, coach heath was not going to get us to the Final Four.

When you find that the coach cannot bring our program to the next level, it was time to move to somebody else.

Coach Pel is probably a better fit and better suited to get Arkansas basketball back to where it used to be.

[tophawg19]

this is stupid . to critize a coach before he has coached his first game . give the man a chance . wait till there are grounds for complaints . not some stupid speculation. what he did at so. alabama has no bearing here . billy donavan didn't set the world on fire before coming to florida and i promise you they wouldn't trade him for anyone out there.

[bgsisco]

That is the first quote from an assistant manager that I can remember in a long time.  I love it and everyday that passes I feel better about this hire.

[The Boar War]

Stan Heath is a good man and by all accounts probably a good role model for the players.  That being said few people get payed head coach money for being a good man.  May be a sad commentary on our society but it's true none the less.  That friday night when we lost to USC was one of the most depressing moments surpassed only by the loss to Bucknell last year.  With the amount of scholarships coming up something had to be done.

JP may be no better than Heath but so far he has not disappointed.  He's pulled in a few good assistants, a backup point guard, and a stud away from UK.  Those are all good things in my book.  Can anyone deny that running the kids is a good (possibly great) thing?  If the Hogs were the worst conditioned team he had ever seen can we really criticize him for saying so?      

Personally I think the statement is more of a challenge to the players.  When they are gassed after running lines and wind sprints or at the 35th minute of a game that quote will probably be in the back of their minds.  Hopefully it will cause them to work harder.  I have my doubts that our SEC caliber team is more out of shape than his first year team at USA.

[BigoBoys]

The team has suggested that before, but maybe didn't know what it was.  When they would lose those games we thought they should have won the players would say "they wanted it more" we were all puzzled about the want.  I remember in the Kentucky game during the second half Kentucky turned up the pressure, and there were no timeouts for just over 8 minutes.  Our guys were gassed, Kentucky was not. 

[U.P. HOGG]

This is the most exciting article I've read concerning Razorback football or basketball in some time.  The coaching staff has identified a problem and is putting the wheels in motion to effect a positive change.

Anybody who has problems with this can't see the forest for the trees.  A good wind is blowing...a very good wind.

Bacon out...

The kind of wind that doesn't stink!!   

[Ftsmithmike]

From what I hear Scott Cain is a very good person but he should be a little ashamed of this article. It's unfortunate that he decided to take this route and try to paint such a terrible picture of Heath....again. This is another example of the Arkansas media stepping on Heath who is no longer here, to prop up who they hope turns out to be a great hire. Did Scott go on the golfing trip with Pel and Donovan as well? When will they start justifying this hire instead of trying to defend the firing of Heath?

Its time to move on Heath. We appreciate the rebuilding you did here but we just needed to find someone who would take us to the next level. Now leave the razorback message board and go talk about your own team.

[justonefan]

Held Hawgstage makes for good entertainment.  Every story needs an antagonist.  I enjoy the witty banter his inane statements create.  By the way, HH, you also misspelled ABYSMAL.  So much for genius.

[bigbrutha]

This is my last post concerning Heath.  It's hard for me to be too negative about someone who seems like a genuinely good guy, but seriously.  We went 7'0", 6'10", 6'10", and 6'8".  All of which who brought a lot of game in their own unique way.  At the beginning of the year what did Heath say we wanted to do.  RUN.  Our biggest weakness was our quickness.  Beverly's a force coming off screens and catching and shooting.  You don't lose anything with him in the halfcourt game.  As for Weems, either attack, hit your jumpers, or sit on the bench.  And by all means get OFFENSIVE REBOUNDS. Good luck to Stan, I hope he learned from his stint with the big boys. 

[dogsiceman]

 :razorback:

I think it's obvious we all have respect for Coach Heath as a man.  He has great attributes for sure.  But it's also just as obvious he had ample time to build "his" program and style of play.  It just didn't happen to the degree we all wanted.  So......we change coaches and move on, whether it's good or bad, we move on. 

So, let's now watch and see what the new coaching can do, and do our best to support the program.  I envy all of you with the coming season.  The only time I got to see the team was last year in Columbia SC (where I now live) and we were never, ever, in that game.   

I'll be willing to give the benefit of the doubt.....until proven wrong.   
                                                               
                                                                     Go Hogs, and let's play 40 MINUTES OF PEL(L)  !!!

[football-writer]

From what I hear Scott Cain is a very good person but he should be a little ashamed of this article. It's unfortunate that he decided to take this route and try to paint such a terrible picture of Heath....again. This is another example of the Arkansas media stepping on Heath who is no longer here, to prop up who they hope turns out to be a great hire. Did Scott go on the golfing trip with Pel and Donovan as well? When will they start justifying this hire instead of trying to defend the firing of Heath?

When will you get over the past and at least...and I know this part will be difficult for you...TRY to support Pelphrey.  Heath is gone and he isn't coming back.  When it comes to Coach Pelphrey, you have already convicted him, sentenced him and executed him before he's coached a single game.  Sure coach Heath was a good man....but as the new assistant coaches...WHO also have coaching experience....found out, the Hogs were out of shape.  You are a good antagonist, but good grief!  Put down the hangman's noose you've constructed for Pelphrey and at least TRY to keep your negative talk about him to yourself.  If...and I do mean IF...you are proven right, I'll be the FIRST to say you were right.  But, EVERY coach deserves a chance to succeed or fail in their first season...GIVE HIM A FIRST RAZORBACK SEASON!!!

[Held Hawgstage]

Its time to move on Heath. We appreciate the rebuilding you did here but we just needed to find someone who would take us to the next level. Now leave the razorback message board and go talk about your own team.

When it comes to Coach Pelphrey, you have already convicted him, sentenced him and executed him before he's coached a single game.  Sure coach Heath was a good man....but as the new assistant coaches...WHO also have coaching experience....found out, the Hogs were out of shape.  You are a good antagonist, but good grief!  Put down the hangman's noose you've constructed for Pelphrey and at least TRY to keep your negative talk about him to yourself.  If...and I do mean IF...you are proven right, I'll be the FIRST to say you were right.  But, EVERY coach deserves a chance to succeed or fail in their first season...GIVE HIM A FIRST RAZORBACK SEASON!!!

By the way, HH, you also misspelled ABYSMAL.  So much for genius.

I'm not trying to be an antagonist. I'm simply asking the questions and throwing out some thought provoking scenarios which our HOMER media with their PERSONAL agenda's did to Stan. It was strange that when we would win...hey the razorbacks won last night...let's talk football. Then when the football talk got negative toward the football coach...we jumped all over the losses and asked the question if Stan was getting a pass and began to talk negative about our basketball coach. No one wanted to admit the double standard. We couldn't openly petition for Butch Davis to be hired when he was sitting in Springdale and we were coming off of TWO LOSING SEASONS. At no point did they ever point out the obvious with this basketball team. Hey fans...we just lost our two top scorers from last year and we have three new starters. Yet, we hung in there with Florida and Texas, we beat ranked Alabama and Vanderbilt. Nope it was negativity. I didn't see anyone saying they were being antagonist. No one questioned their support. Those weren't the voices they were letting through the screeners. So we fire someone who was winning but not flashy enough. We screw up the hiring process... and then we hire a guy who didn't even make the tournament. I've said it before..I'll continue to say it. If you fire you go higher...you don't get an unproven to win with players you think are talented enough to be in the final four. If you would spend more time troubleshooting these issues instead of focusing on two misspelled words...maybe you wouldn't be so upset with my stance on this program. 

[ColumbianHog]

Its time to move on Heath. We appreciate the rebuilding you did here but we just needed to find someone who would take us to the next level. Now leave the razorback message board and go talk about your own team.

When it comes to Coach Pelphrey, you have already convicted him, sentenced him and executed him before he's coached a single game.  Sure coach Heath was a good man....but as the new assistant coaches...WHO also have coaching experience....found out, the Hogs were out of shape.  You are a good antagonist, but good grief!  Put down the hangman's noose you've constructed for Pelphrey and at least TRY to keep your negative talk about him to yourself.  If...and I do mean IF...you are proven right, I'll be the FIRST to say you were right.  But, EVERY coach deserves a chance to succeed or fail in their first season...GIVE HIM A FIRST RAZORBACK SEASON!!!

By the way, HH, you also misspelled ABYSMAL.  So much for genius.

I'm not trying to be an antagonist. I'm simply asking the questions and throwing out some thought provoking scenarios which our HOMER media with their PERSONAL agenda's did to Stan. It was strange that when we would win...hey the razorbacks won last night...let's talk football. Then when the football talk got negative toward the football coach...we jumped all over the losses and asked the question if Stan was getting a pass and began to talk negative about our basketball coach. No one wanted to admit the double standard. We couldn't openly petition for Butch Davis to be hired when he was sitting in Springdale and we were coming off of TWO LOSING SEASONS. At no point did they ever point out the obvious with this basketball team. Hey fans...we just lost our two top scorers from last year and we have three new starters. Yet, we hung in there with Florida and Texas, we beat ranked Alabama and Vanderbilt. Nope it was negativity. I didn't see anyone saying they were being antagonist. No one questioned their support. Those weren't the voices they were letting through the screeners. So we fire someone who was winning but not flashy enough. We screw up the hiring process... and then we hire a guy who didn't even make the tournament. I've said it before..I'll continue to say it. If you fire you go higher...you don't get an unproven to win with players you think are talented enough to be in the final four. If you would spend more time troubleshooting these issues instead of focusing on two misspelled words...maybe you wouldn't be so upset with my stance on this program. 

If your complaint is with the media then I have nothing to say to you because I think you're correct.

If your complaint is with Pelphrey then I think you are being a bit premature. 

I haven't quite figured out what your actual stance is yet.

[football-writer]

Its time to move on Heath. We appreciate the rebuilding you did here but we just needed to find someone who would take us to the next level. Now leave the razorback message board and go talk about your own team.

When it comes to Coach Pelphrey, you have already convicted him, sentenced him and executed him before he's coached a single game.  Sure coach Heath was a good man....but as the new assistant coaches...WHO also have coaching experience....found out, the Hogs were out of shape.  You are a good antagonist, but good grief!  Put down the hangman's noose you've constructed for Pelphrey and at least TRY to keep your negative talk about him to yourself.  If...and I do mean IF...you are proven right, I'll be the FIRST to say you were right.  But, EVERY coach deserves a chance to succeed or fail in their first season...GIVE HIM A FIRST RAZORBACK SEASON!!!

By the way, HH, you also misspelled ABYSMAL.  So much for genius.

I'm not trying to be an antagonist. I'm simply asking the questions and throwing out some thought provoking scenarios which our HOMER media with their PERSONAL agenda's did to Stan. It was strange that when we would win...hey the razorbacks won last night...let's talk football. Then when the football talk got negative toward the football coach...we jumped all over the losses and asked the question if Stan was getting a pass and began to talk negative about our basketball coach. No one wanted to admit the double standard. We couldn't openly petition for Butch Davis to be hired when he was sitting in Springdale and we were coming off of TWO LOSING SEASONS. At no point did they ever point out the obvious with this basketball team. Hey fans...we just lost our two top scorers from last year and we have three new starters. Yet, we hung in there with Florida and Texas, we beat ranked Alabama and Vanderbilt. Nope it was negativity. I didn't see anyone saying they were being antagonist. No one questioned their support. Those weren't the voices they were letting through the screeners. So we fire someone who was winning but not flashy enough. We screw up the hiring process... and then we hire a guy who didn't even make the tournament. I've said it before..I'll continue to say it. If you fire you go higher...you don't get an unproven to win with players you think are talented enough to be in the final four. If you would spend more time troubleshooting these issues instead of focusing on two misspelled words...maybe you wouldn't be so upset with my stance on this program. 

If your complaint is with the media then I have nothing to say to you because I think you're correct.

If your complaint is with Pelphrey then I think you are being a bit premature. 

I haven't quite figured out what your actual stance is yet.

Don't blame ALL of the media.  I'm in the media and I'm about six or seven hrs from Fayetteville (depending on how fast I drive) and I have nothing to do with the Razorbacks.  I'm just saying that, while I disagree with how they handled (or mis-handled) Heath and his resulting termination, we shouldn't hold it against Pelphrey.  Heath has a new job...he's happy where he is.  Pelphrey is here.  He's happy where he is.  Why dwell on a past that we can't bring back to the present?  Concentrate on our future with Pelphrey and stop criticizing him because HE took the job he was offered.  He remembers the days of Nolan and looks committed to bringing those days back.  Here's a little tidbit about him that made me like him as a coach more than anything...every recruit that was interviewed said the first two questions he or his assistants asked were, "What's your GPA?" and "What's your ACT score?"  He's worried about academics FIRST!  I seriously doubt we'll hear about Hogs being academically ineligible while Pel is on the hill.

[football-writer]

NOW ...before anyone (and you know who you are) tells me to go back to football, just know this...while my name on here is football-writer, I am a student of EVERY sport the Razorbacks are involved with.  It's just that HIGH SCHOOL football was the FIRST sport I covered as a sports writer, hence "football-writer" was born.

[ColumbianHog]

Its time to move on Heath. We appreciate the rebuilding you did here but we just needed to find someone who would take us to the next level. Now leave the razorback message board and go talk about your own team.

When it comes to Coach Pelphrey, you have already convicted him, sentenced him and executed him before he's coached a single game.  Sure coach Heath was a good man....but as the new assistant coaches...WHO also have coaching experience....found out, the Hogs were out of shape.  You are a good antagonist, but good grief!  Put down the hangman's noose you've constructed for Pelphrey and at least TRY to keep your negative talk about him to yourself.  If...and I do mean IF...you are proven right, I'll be the FIRST to say you were right.  But, EVERY coach deserves a chance to succeed or fail in their first season...GIVE HIM A FIRST RAZORBACK SEASON!!!

By the way, HH, you also misspelled ABYSMAL.  So much for genius.

I'm not trying to be an antagonist. I'm simply asking the questions and throwing out some thought provoking scenarios which our HOMER media with their PERSONAL agenda's did to Stan. It was strange that when we would win...hey the razorbacks won last night...let's talk football. Then when the football talk got negative toward the football coach...we jumped all over the losses and asked the question if Stan was getting a pass and began to talk negative about our basketball coach. No one wanted to admit the double standard. We couldn't openly petition for Butch Davis to be hired when he was sitting in Springdale and we were coming off of TWO LOSING SEASONS. At no point did they ever point out the obvious with this basketball team. Hey fans...we just lost our two top scorers from last year and we have three new starters. Yet, we hung in there with Florida and Texas, we beat ranked Alabama and Vanderbilt. Nope it was negativity. I didn't see anyone saying they were being antagonist. No one questioned their support. Those weren't the voices they were letting through the screeners. So we fire someone who was winning but not flashy enough. We screw up the hiring process... and then we hire a guy who didn't even make the tournament. I've said it before..I'll continue to say it. If you fire you go higher...you don't get an unproven to win with players you think are talented enough to be in the final four. If you would spend more time troubleshooting these issues instead of focusing on two misspelled words...maybe you wouldn't be so upset with my stance on this program. 

If your complaint is with the media then I have nothing to say to you because I think you're correct.

If your complaint is with Pelphrey then I think you are being a bit premature. 

I haven't quite figured out what your actual stance is yet.

Don't blame ALL of the media.  I'm in the media and I'm about six or seven hrs from Fayetteville (depending on how fast I drive) and I have nothing to do with the Razorbacks.  I'm just saying that, while I disagree with how they handled (or mis-handled) Heath and his resulting termination, we shouldn't hold it against Pelphrey.  Heath has a new job...he's happy where he is.  Pelphrey is here.  He's happy where he is.  Why dwell on a past that we can't bring back to the present?  Concentrate on our future with Pelphrey and stop criticizing him because HE took the job he was offered.  He remembers the days of Nolan and looks committed to bringing those days back.  Here's a little tidbit about him that made me like him as a coach more than anything...every recruit that was interviewed said the first two questions he or his assistants asked were, "What's your GPA?" and "What's your ACT score?"  He's worried about academics FIRST!  I seriously doubt we'll hear about Hogs being academically ineligible while Pel is on the hill.

All good points. 

I hope you're right about the academics.

[Held Hawgstage]

If your complaint is with the media then I have nothing to say to you because I think you're correct.
If your complaint is with Pelphrey then I think you are being a bit premature. 
I haven't quite figured out what your actual stance is yet.

I have several complaints:

1. My complaint is with certain members of the media who like to use their forums to invoke the masses to support who they want to hire and fire. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't follow sports close enough to question this and use certain media personalities as their only source of truth. If someone says it's so..it's got to be. But it's not just sports...one of the unfortunate traits of the human race.

2. An Athletic Dept that picks and chooses who it wants to support but always has its hand out asking asking me to support it. It only listens to the paying fans for football but it's the opposite for basketball. It was the casual dollar fan it listens to when it comes to basketball.

3. My stance is this. This program was solid. If anyone noticed...we went through a transition without taking a step back. We LOST two of our leading scorers and had three new Starters, and didn't miss a beat. We still made the tournament. We had some of the better recruiters in the nation yet we were worried about them filling the 7 scholarships. That's just ludicrous. We took a chance on Heath and he made progress and again, made a transition without missing a beat yet we run him out of town and bring in an unproven. An unproven recruiter to fill 7 scholarships. We needed a proven coach to take what we have and win now. Not waiting to fill these scholarships waiting on his type of players to develop. Now we will see how painful a transition can be. An unnecessary transition at that. 

[ColumbianHog]

I have several complaints:

1. My complaint is with certain members of the media who like to use their forums to invoke the masses to support who they want to hire and fire. Unfortunately, a lot of people don't follow sports close enough to question this and use certain media personalities as their only source of truth. If someone says it's so..it's got to be. But it's not just sports...one of the unfortunate traits of the human race.

I have to agree with you here.  Like football_writer said though, in fairness, it's not all members of the media. 

People have a responsibility to think for themselves and not take everything in the press at face value.  Unfortunately, in today's society, that doesn't often happen.  As you know, the media shapes a lot more important things than Razorback athletics.  Sad but true...sad but true....

2. An Athletic Dept that picks and chooses who it wants to support but always has its hand out asking asking me to support it. It only listens to the paying fans for football but it's the opposite for basketball. It was the casual dollar fan it listens to when it comes to basketball.

I'm not sure I understand the difference between a paying fan and a casual dollar fan.  All I can say is that after this season we'll have a new AD for the first time since I've been alive.  Maybe things will change...I don't know.

3. My stance is this. This program was solid. If anyone noticed...we went through a transition without taking a step back. We LOST two of our leading scorers and had three new Starters, and didn't miss a beat. We still made the tournament. We had some of the better recruiters in the nation yet we were worried about them filling the 7 scholarships. That's just ludicrous. We took a chance on Heath and he made progress and again, made a transition without missing a beat yet we run him out of town and bring in an unproven. An unproven recruiter to fill 7 scholarships. We needed a proven coach to take what we have and win now. Not waiting to fill these scholarships waiting on his type of players to develop. Now we will see how painful a transition can be. An unnecessary transition at that. 

Good point.  We WERE in a transition period.  We lost Brewer, Modica, Ferguson, Famutimi, and Jefferson.  Some weren't as good as others but all played a lot of minutes.  We returned Hill, Townes, and Thomas out of that core group.  We added some good new talent in Beverley, Welsh, Weems, and Washington but they were all NEW to DI-A basketball.  And in the end, we were right back where we left off the last year.
  To be honest, Hawgstage, I was disappointed when Heath was fired.  I thought he deserved to take this class through its senior season.  Given the chance, he would probably take us as far next season as Pelphrey will.  That said, I don't think Pelphrey will be a bad coach or recruiter.  I think he'll have the Hogs in the tourney season after season and we'll be just fine.  I don't see much of a gain over Coach Heath (unless you prefer one style of play over another) but I don't think we'll see much of a drop-off either.  The risk for a drop-off is there...but it's my opinion that we won't see one.

[Held Hawgstage]

I'm not sure I understand the difference between a paying fan and a casual dollar fan.
 
I don't see much of a gain over Coach Heath (unless you prefer one style of play over another) but I don't think we'll see much of a drop-off either.  The risk for a drop-off is there...but it's my opinion that we won't see one.

To me, the paying fan is one that will pay regardless of the record, the coach, but it's the sport. The casual dollar fan is one who wants to go to the game only when it's a winning team. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and their monetary contribution is important to the program, however, their pull in basketball is toooooooo influential. Baseball needs to keep this in mind. Things are good now, the attendance is up, but how many of those attending are there because they truly love the game. I know there is a business side, unfortunately for Stan, discretionary dollars hurts a program who has triple the amount of home games compared to one that has....oh I don't know.....what......4-5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   

[ColumbianHog]

I'm not sure I understand the difference between a paying fan and a casual dollar fan.
 
I don't see much of a gain over Coach Heath (unless you prefer one style of play over another) but I don't think we'll see much of a drop-off either.  The risk for a drop-off is there...but it's my opinion that we won't see one.

To me, the paying fan is one that will pay regardless of the record, the coach, but it's the sport. The casual dollar fan is one who wants to go to the game only when it's a winning team. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that and their monetary contribution is important to the program, however, their pull in basketball is toooooooo influential. Baseball needs to keep this in mind. Things are good now, the attendance is up, but how many of those attending are there because they truly love the game. I know there is a business side, unfortunately for Stan, discretionary dollars hurts a program who has triple the amount of home games compared to one that has....oh I don't know.....what......4-5!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

I'm guessing the difference in attendance between football and basketball games (with paying fans and casual dollar fans taken into account) is the atmosphere.  With football you get tailgating and the whole gameDAY atmosphere.  I mean, you can really make a whole day of it.  With basketball you go and spend 2-3 hours in the arena and then leave.  So, you probably have more people willing to go to football games no matter if we're winning or losing because of the atmosphere.  The game is a huge part of it but it's not the only part.

With basketball, it's not as much fun unless you can really get into it and call the Hogs alot.  The game is the whole thing.  You're a lot closer to the action and if your team's losing big then it gets old fast.


That's just my opinion on why we can fill up the football stadium even if we're losing whereby basketball  didn't fill the seats even with a winning record.  football makes the money more easily.

I see baseball as being more like football.  You go out and make an afternoon of it.  You want the Hogs to win but even if they don't you can enjoy some food and the weather and such.

[football-writer]

I can tell you what ended Heath's time at Fayetteville....while it is true that there were about 12,000 fans secretly disguised as empty seats, the PTB saw Heath's visual lack-of-fire on the sideline like that of Nolan during his last year when he simply accepted what was happening and didn't (to the perception of the common fan) get fired up about Arkansas athletics.

[Held Hawgstage]

ColumbianHog you are correct on that...no need to argue that point. Also, you are looking at games on Tuesday and Thursday nights. I know a lot of people who did not want to make the drive, fight the traffic, too tired from work, needed to get the kids to bed, weather, etc and just didn't want the hassle more than it was the team or the coach. Look at what is competeting for your time now compared to 1995-1999. Different times. I doubt wins against Kentucky or another win here and there was going to change that.  

[ColumbianHog]

I can tell you what ended Heath's time at Fayetteville....while it is true that there were about 12,000 fans secretly disguised as empty seats, the PTB saw Heath's visual lack-of-fire on the sideline like that of Nolan during his last year when he simply accepted what was happening and didn't (to the perception of the common fan) get fired up about Arkansas athletics.

That's a different opinion.  If that were the case then it's short-sightedness on the PTB's part because not everyone has a jump up and scream personality.  Besides, Coach Heath looked the same way on the sidelines since year 1...there was no difference to be seen.

[Held Hawgstage]

Another misconception a lot of these fans have. Somehow a chair toss here and a tongue lashing at a ref there would have guided us to a national title. This isn't acting but since we are becoming accustomed to drama, I can see why they wanted him to flip out.

[football-writer]

I personally liked Heath...I think he was treeated poorly by the PTB.  I hate that he's gone.  But I'm glad that we now have a coach that the players react to and apparently will respect.  They respected Heath and were willing to bleed for him....but in the end, it was out of their control.

[ColumbianHog]

ColumbianHog you are correct on that...no need to argue that point. Also, you are looking at games on Tuesday and Thursday nights. I know a lot of people who did not want to make the drive, fight the traffic, too tired from work, needed to get the kids to bed, weather, etc and just didn't want the hassle more than it was the team or the coach. Look at what is competeting for your time now compared to 1995-1999. Different times. I doubt wins against Kentucky or another win here and there was going to change that.  

Yep, that's right.  Here's some figures for anyone interested.  Make of them what you will.

Here are the home game attendances:
Red-White  = 5,742
Xavier (NewOrleans) Exhibition = 5839
California PA Exhibition = 6237
SEMO = 14182 (11952)
Stephen F. Austin = 14932 (12118)
UMKC = 14782 (8052)
Central Michigan = 14732 (8316)
Oakland = 14907 (9271)
Oral roberts = 16152 (14338)
LA tech = 16072 (13557)
Tulsa = 16222 (12827)
Bama = 18553 (17935)
Georgia = 17819 (17341)
LSU = 19302 (18976)
Kentucky = 19739 (19739)
Auburn = 17286 (16952)
Ole Miss = 18054 (17781)
Tenn = 18903 (17268)
Miss St = 15883 (12724)


That's an average of 15247 paid attendance (11304 actual) for crappy non-conference opponents.

In SEC play we averaged 18192 paid attendance (17340 actual) in conference play.  Big difference.

If someone had scheduled our good non-con opponents at home then we would have seen better attendance IMO.

Also, how many of these games were available on TV and how often was the weather crappy last December?

It seems to me that attendance wasn't down due to the play but rather due to the opponents and other external factors.

[whatsshakinbacon]

I personally liked Heath...I think he was treeated poorly by the PTB.  I hate that he's gone.  But I'm glad that we now have a coach that the players react to and apparently will respect.  They respected Heath and were willing to bleed for him....but in the end, it was out of their control.

All accounts I have heard indicate that the players did NOT respect Heath.

But I digress. 

The fact is we have a new coach who identifies problems and works at solving them.  A new coach who has trust enough in his assistants that he lets them make statements to the newspapers.  A new coach who has turned recruits who had dropped Arkansas and now want to play for him.

This is by far the most excitement I've felt towards our basketball program in a few years.

Bacon out...

[Held Hawgstage]

All accounts I have heard indicate that the players did NOT respect Heath.
But I digress. 
The fact is we have a new coach who identifies problems and works at solving them.  A new coach who has trust enough in his assistants that he lets them make statements to the newspapers.  A new coach who has turned recruits who had dropped Arkansas and now want to play for him.

News flash. Most of these Div 1 players think they are better than what they really are and many don't like being told what to do when they've been told how great they are until they graduate high school. Most of them can't stand their coach. Almost all of them think they can go pro even though most end up playing at the req after work like you and me. I've said it once and I'll have to say it again. If you have ever been on a team then you would know if you have quit on a coach....you don't make a run like they did. Were some of them upset, yes, should we care, absolutely not. One thing a lot of these players lacked was personal pride. If anything, they didn't quit on Heath, they quit on themselves and they know who they are.
Most coaches don't allow their assistants to talk to the media, this isn't new to D1 and definitely not new to Arkansas...ask Malzahn.
Heath didn't lose any recruit that's going to guide us to a National Title. Stick with football.

[ColumbianHog]

All accounts I have heard indicate that the players did NOT respect Heath.
But I digress. 
The fact is we have a new coach who identifies problems and works at solving them.  A new coach who has trust enough in his assistants that he lets them make statements to the newspapers.  A new coach who has turned recruits who had dropped Arkansas and now want to play for him.

News flash. Most of these Div 1 players think they are better than what they really are and many don't like being told what to do when they've been told how great they are until they graduate high school. Most of them can't stand their coach. Almost all of them think they can go pro even though most end up playing at the req after work like you and me. I've said it once and I'll have to say it again. If you have ever been on a team then you would know if you have quit on a coach....you don't make a run like they did. Were some of them upset, yes, should we care, absolutely not. One thing a lot of these players lacked was personal pride. If anything, they didn't quit on Heath, they quit on themselves and they know who they are.
Most coaches don't allow their assistants to talk to the media, this isn't new to D1 and definitely not new to Arkansas...ask Malzahn.
Heath didn't lose any recruit that's going to guide us to a National Title. Stick with football.

It is odd that Ostrom was talking to the media about this.  I can't remember the last time I heard an assistant giving sound bites to the media.

Perhaps it's because Pelphrey has been away and extremely busy?  Or maybe he just gives his assistants more slack for that sort of thing?

Either way, it was an interesting bit of knowledge and has certainly fired up this board a bit.

[Held Hawgstage]

It is odd that Ostrom was talking to the media about this.  I can't remember the last time I heard an assistant giving sound bites to the media.

In my humble opinion...those statements were unnecessary. Scott Cain knew exactly what he was doing by inserting those quotes. It was just another shot across the bow at Heath, to perpetuate the idea that there was something wrong with the program. I wish they would spend more time speaking about their styles and how their styles worked for them two years ago than spending time attacking these guys and their conditioning. It's bad enough Wally attacked Pat's English when the kid defended Heath, why won't these grown men with a pen attack these new guys credentials. I don't think that is much to ask.

[ColumbianHog]

It is odd that Ostrom was talking to the media about this.  I can't remember the last time I heard an assistant giving sound bites to the media.

In my humble opinion...those statements were unnecessary. Scott Cain knew exactly what he was doing by inserting those quotes. It was just another shot across the bow at Heath, to perpetuate the idea that there was something wrong with the program. I wish they would spend more time speaking about their styles and how their styles worked for them two years ago than spending time attacking these guys and their conditioning. It's bad enough Wally attacked Pat's English when the kid defended Heath, why won't these grown men with a pen attack these new guys credentials. I don't think that is much to ask.

I usually like Wally but I was very irritated when he wrote that article about Beverley's grammar.  It was unnecessary.

I didn't mind Cain's article so much.  I don't mind Ostrom saying what he said.  But I do agree that Cain knew exactly what he was doing when he inserted those quotes and I don't really mind that he did it.  His comments give some insight into what style of play they'll be running.  No specifics but a little insight nonetheless.

On the flip side, I agree that we should have seen some articles showing the disadvantages of the Pelphrey hire instead of everything tearing down the Heath regime.  Specifically the failure of Broyles to court any of the big boys and White's subsequent hiring of PES.  There was an article on it on Yahoo or Sportsline, I can't remember which.  But, the Arkansas editors publish what they want.  If it doesn't sell then they'll have people write something that will.  Not much to do about it.

[Held Hawgstage]

On the flip side, I agree that we should have seen some articles showing the disadvantages of the Pelphrey hire instead of everything tearing down the Heath regime.  Specifically the failure of Broyles to court any of the big boys and White's subsequent hiring of PES.  There was an article on it on Yahoo or Sportsline, I can't remember which.  But, the Arkansas editors publish what they want.  If it doesn't sell then they'll have people write something that will.  Not much to do about it.

A couple of sentences sums up all you can say about why this was a good hire and even that is not good enough. He made the tourney two years ago, he played and was an assistant coach in the SEC. He's a fiery character. Other than that.....nothing. So why not talk about the players shortcomings and avoid theirs. Great propaganda.