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Is Beverly the best freshman to play for the Hogs?

Started by southeasthog, February 18, 2007, 09:33:33 am

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Hollywood_HOGan

Quote from: rebelhogdog on February 18, 2007, 12:47:55 pm
Quote from: Hollywood_HOGan on February 18, 2007, 12:41:00 pm
Quote from: southeasthog on February 18, 2007, 09:33:33 am
I mean overall game and consisticey. Johnson is the only one I can think of in recent memory. Corliss was good but didn't dominate until his sophmore year.

Thoughts?

There is no freshman that will come close to Thurman.

Bev is good..really good. but he's no scotty thurman.

Agree....

scotty averaged like 25 a game before Corliss got healthy.

Scotty layed down 34 on Mizzou and Arizona.

PigWig

Pat has qualities of leadership that you cannot put statistics on. He is a class act all the way.

 

Hollywood_HOGan

Quote from: PigWig on February 18, 2007, 12:52:48 pm
Pat has qualities of leadership that you cannot put statistics on. He is a class act all the way.

no doubt

PB is probably the best leader on the team right now.

Pure class act. Plays hard every single game.

Bomis Hawg

Thurman had 24 of his 28 points against Zona as a Frosh in the second half.  He hit 7 three's while scoring 34 on Mizzou.  I think he hit a last-second 3 against LSU that year, but I am not sure.

1994

If they would find a way to get beverly the ball in better possition (each ) game he would dominate.
Steve Spurrier, Florida football coach, telling Gator fans that a fire at Auburn's football dorm had destroyed 20 books: "But the real tragedy was that 15 hadn't been colored yet." (1991)

GREG1021


Boarcephus

February 18, 2007, 01:10:37 pm #56 Last Edit: February 18, 2007, 01:20:22 pm by Boarcephus
Quote from: Bomis Hawg on February 18, 2007, 11:26:05 am
Freshmen PPG by the stop scorers in Arkansas history:

Ronnie Brewer went 12.2 ppg in 28 games (2003-04).

A Freshman ranked SECOND in ppg: Ron Huery (1986-87); Lee Mayberry (1989-90); Pat Bradley (1995-96);Eric Ferguson (2002-03); Ronnie Brewer (2003-04).

scratch this post.  You wrote "Ronnie", I read "Ron".  My fault.
I need to be more like my dog...if you can't fight it, screw it, or eat it, then piss on it.

jamie72921

1. Scotty Thurman
2. Corliss Williamson
3. Joe Johnson (SEC frosh of the year)
4. Sidney Moncrief
5. Todd Day
6. Lee Mayberry
7. Kareem Reid (Sweet 16 finish in a year that saw Pate and Adebayo dismissed midseason and Darnell Robinson out half the season with a stress fracture)
8. Patrick Beverly
9. Jonathan Modica
10. Oliver Miller
 
An impessive list regardless of where the player on it is ranked.

And some people want to say we don't have a real tradition.
Bless your heart

Boarcephus

Mayberry for my money is one of the best.  He came in and ran the show from day one and was one of the smartest players I've ever seen. One play he made as a freshman still stands out in my mind.....he was bringing the ball up the court on the left side, saw the trap waiting, calmly backed up took it over to the next side of the court and started the offense.  Ervin on the other hand, well he brings it up, kills his dribble, gets double teamed,  jumps in the air and turns it over.
I need to be more like my dog...if you can't fight it, screw it, or eat it, then piss on it.

Bomis Hawg

Quote from: jamie72921 on February 18, 2007, 01:11:24 pm
1. Scotty Thurman
2. Corliss Williamson
3. Joe Johnson (SEC frosh of the year)
4. Sidney Moncrief
5. Todd Day
6. Lee Mayberry
7. Kareem Reid (Sweet 16 finish in a year that saw Pate and Adebayo dismissed midseason and Darnell Robinson out half the season with a stress fracture)
8. Patrick Beverly
9. Jonathan Modica
10. Oliver Miller
 
An impessive list regardless of where the player on it is ranked.

And some people want to say we don't have a real tradition.

Bradley and Hood made a great duo with Reid.  That team, if they had Pate and Adebayo, would've been killer.  I think that should put Beverley above Kareem.  Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with the list.

You could argue Huery at #10.

razorback93

Quote from: jfb_is_god on February 18, 2007, 10:23:11 am
I love the kid.  I can't say he's the best because I haven't seen enough others to even have a valid opinion.  Johnson was real good, but he had so much talent.  He was clearly way above, not just his team members, but probably most of the NCAA.  However, imo I think Johnson coasted to some degree on his incredible skills.  I never saw the fire and passion I see in Beverly.  I'm not knockin Joe.  He did played on some horrible teams to be honest, but I just never felt he really invested himself in the team.
I agree about Joe.  It is obvious by his play in the NBA that he was bored with the college game. He is probably the most talented player to ever play here, but he did not bring it every game.  PB is definetly in the discussion of best freshman, but I am not sure you could say he is the top.

jamie72921

Quote from: Bomis Hawg on February 18, 2007, 01:31:07 pm
Quote from: jamie72921 on February 18, 2007, 01:11:24 pm
1. Scotty Thurman
2. Corliss Williamson
3. Joe Johnson (SEC frosh of the year)
4. Sidney Moncrief
5. Todd Day
6. Lee Mayberry
7. Kareem Reid (Sweet 16 finish in a year that saw Pate and Adebayo dismissed midseason and Darnell Robinson out half the season with a stress fracture)
8. Patrick Beverly
9. Jonathan Modica
10. Oliver Miller
 
An impessive list regardless of where the player on it is ranked.

And some people want to say we don't have a real tradition.

Bradley and Hood made a great duo with Reid.  That team, if they had Pate and Adebayo, would've been killer.  I think that should put Beverley above Kareem.  Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with the list.

You could argue Huery at #10.

We have had a lot of great ones.

I consider myself lucky to have been a Razorback fan over the years. I love watching Beverly too and hope that we will be back sooner rather than later.
Bless your heart

CheeZ_PuFF

Sidney might be better, it was before my time but i believe Beverly IS better player then Corliss. Corliss had a great team that helped him out alot and Beverly doesn't have the dominant supporting cast to help him like Corliss had. I believe Beverly is better then Ron Brewer and better then Joe Johnson when he was a freshman.

The reason i think he is better then Joe as a freshman is i think Beverly has more leadership qualities then Joe.

 

CheeZ_PuFF

My list would have Patrick Beverly in the top 3 in best freshman at U of A.

That is as of right now and he doesnt just horrible the rest of the season and SEC tourny. Which i dont see happening.

Buck Ocean

Think like a Jedi

Soooie21


jamie72921

Quote from: CheeZ_PuFF on February 18, 2007, 02:23:20 pm
Sidney might be better, it was before my time but i believe Beverly IS better player then Corliss. Corliss had a great team that helped him out alot and Beverly doesn't have the dominant supporting cast to help him like Corliss had. I believe Beverly is better then Ron Brewer and better then Joe Johnson when he was a freshman.

The reason i think he is better then Joe as a freshman is i think Beverly has more leadership qualities then Joe.

No way that Beverly is better than Corliss. I watched Corliss abuse Kentucky his freshman year at Barnhill. They tried a 6'10 center on him. Then had to try Jamaal Mashburn on him to no avail.

Sorry, Beverly is good, but he is no Corliss. Corliss was the leader of that team as well. Both on and off the court. What Scotty did while Corliss was out was probably even more amazing.

That team still holds the record for most wins to begin a season.
Bless your heart

Bomis Hawg

Corliss was a mis-match in most cases.  But, I don't think he had the true instant Freshman impact because of the injury.  Thurman was out of this world in games.  He is, imo, the biggest clutch shooter in Arkansas history. 

I didn't see the Triplets or anyone back then.  Lee Mayberry and Todd Day are up there.  I think had the team that Joe Johnson was on, he would be higher.  He is in the same boat as Corliss, though.

jamie72921

I hope Beverly lights it up like no other frosh ever from here on out.

I want the good ole days to return.
Bless your heart

discombobulationist

Lee Mayberry scored and ran the team. What did he have like a 5/1 or 6/1 assist turnover ratio? Who else at Arkansas has done that? Beverly is good, but I'm not convinced that he's even in the top ten as a Razorback freshman yet.
Quote from: Dwight_K_Shrute on September 05, 2014, 02:17:08 pm
ISIS could be overrunning your city and Rick would talk about how nice it is to have new neighbors.

oldfart

I love how Beverley plays, and Joe Johnson as well.  But for best freshman?  Gotta go with Sidney all the way.  Consider that he was probably the "Third" of the Tripletts as a freshman, he was a dynamo on the boards, brought the ball up the floor, a rebounding terror, dyanamite defender.  May have been the leading scorer on most teams but with Boot and Marvin on board he sure did a whole lot besides score.  Those of you who did not have the pleasure of watching Sidney during his years here missed seeing one of the greatest ever to take the court.


jamie72921

Sidney was the greatest Razorback basketball player of all time.

Joe Johnson was the most talented.

Corliss, Scotty, and Beck were the greates winners.
Bless your heart

hview

I am glad Beverly is a razorback, but we've had some great freshman as those in this post have mentioned. I just hope he continues to get better. He has a lot of upside.

Hawgon

Thurman is the best I have seen at Arkansas as a freshman.  Until Beverly puts the team on his back and wills them to a win, he is no Thurman.  Thurman did that routinely, too many times to count, his freshman year.  His game against Missouri at Missouri was one of the best performances by any Razorback anywhere that I have ever seen.  It is even more unbelievable since he was a freshman.


 

heinekenhary

Quote from: Bomis Hawg on February 18, 2007, 02:45:51 pm
Corliss was a mis-match in most cases.  But, I don't think he had the true instant Freshman impact because of the injury.  Thurman was out of this world in games.  He is, imo, the biggest clutch shooter in Arkansas history. 

I didn't see the Triplets or anyone back then.  Lee Mayberry and Todd Day are up there.  I think had the team that Joe Johnson was on, he would be higher.  He is in the same boat as Corliss, though.

Boy, me and you are on the same page.  I've said for years that Scotty was the most clutch player we've ever had.  And, it started from day 1.  No way any other player has hit so many big shots in the last minute of a game as Scotty.  They were BIG games, too.  Duke, Arizona, Mizzou, Kentucky......he broke all their hearts and then some before he was done here. The Arizona game his freshman year may be the greatest performance by a fresh ever at AR.  The game was at Arizona, too.
Mayberry was clutch as well.  He had a big game as a fresh against someone very good and I can't remember who it was.

I would put Thurman, Mayberry, Day, Huery, Sid, Corliss and JJ all in front of him.  Probably Reid too if I was pressed on it. Beverly would have only been a major contributor on the teams that Huery and JJ played on as freshman.

I think this discussion shows how long it's been since we were a powerhouse in college bball.  People don't remember how good those other guys were.  Beverly can play, but he's not in the same league as the others I mentioned, at least not right now.
Show me a guy whos afraid to look bad, and I'll show you a guy you can beat every time.
-Lou Brock

HogsGranpa

Quote from: southeasthog on February 18, 2007, 09:33:33 am
I mean overall game and consisticey. Johnson is the only one I can think of in recent memory. Corliss was good but didn't dominate until his sophmore year.

Thoughts?
Yes, I think so.

I was a big Ronnie Brewer fan, but I believe Beverly is ahead of what Brewer was as freshman.

He seems to want to be a leader, has strong desire to win, plays practically the whole game at a very important position, and even though he is a freshman, you feel good with the ball in his hands.


_Collin1

Quote from: jamie72921 on February 18, 2007, 10:12:40 am
Unambiguosly, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mayberry was better. Scotty Thurman was better. Corliss was better when healthy. Day was better but played on a better team. Moncrief was better. Joe Johnson was far more dominant. Had several 30 pt games against the SEC and only was eligible for half the season.

Stats don't tell the true story either.

Thurman and Corliss took their team to the sweet 16 before losing to eventual national champion North Carolina on a last second shot.

Joe Johnson led his team to the SEC tournament title.

Mayberry and Day won their conference and tournament titles and lost to Louisville in the second round of the NCAA tournament.

Beverly has a long way to go to surpass the achievements of those guys.

That being said, Beverly is very good and having a good year. He is one of the top 6-7 frosh to have played here.
Good post....

IMO Beverly as a freshman has to stand up to Pat Bradley, Derek Hood and Kareem Reid.  Why?  They made the Sweet 16 as freshman.... as a 12 seed BABY!!!!!  Forget Corliss, Scotty, Joe, and Sidney.  They were all in another class. 
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Gman

Quote from: booogaga on February 18, 2007, 10:08:25 am
joe johnston was pretty good
Joe was good, but didn't work near as hard as beverly does.

bphi11ips

Wow - Boomis and jamie are da men when it comes to Hawgball.  Jamie was right on IMO, and I've watched or listened to about every bball game for about 35 years, too. 

It's refreshing to participate in a good, positive, non-soap opera related discussion.
Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

HogsGranpa

Quote from: oldfart on February 18, 2007, 03:23:40 pm
I love how Beverley plays, and Joe Johnson as well.  But for best freshman?  Gotta go with Sidney all the way.  Consider that he was probably the "Third" of the Tripletts as a freshman, he was a dynamo on the boards, brought the ball up the floor, a rebounding terror, dyanamite defender.  May have been the leading scorer on most teams but with Boot and Marvin on board he sure did a whole lot besides score.  Those of you who did not have the pleasure of watching Sidney during his years here missed seeing one of the greatest ever to take the court.


Yep, Sidney Moncrief was indeed, great, but what probably made him the greatest, was his defense and rebounding.

He was always the defensive player that had to cover the opponent's best offensive player.

hog caller

no, but he is by far the best freshman in the SEC this year.

hog caller

No, but he is by far the best freshman in the SEC this year.

arkansaspanic

not the best... definitely one of the most athletic guys I've seen in a while.  Also has great instincts, he never seems to think about what he's doing, he just does it.

kgr


Ridgerunnerpiggie

Quote from: southeasthog on February 18, 2007, 09:33:33 am
I mean overall game and consisticey. Johnson is the only one I can think of in recent memory. Corliss was good but didn't dominate until his sophmore year.

Thoughts?

He's pretty salty!  Got to love the hustle and the way he shoots the ball...Wish he had some more help out there though...

CallMeAl

You young whipper snappers should listen to us old farts. We have seen all the players and know that Sidney Moncrief was the best freshman to play for the UA. But we all know that Patrick Beverly is something special. He has a court sense and enthusiasm that we haven't seen from an upper classman is a while, let alone another freshman. He and Welsh will be an impressive backcourt before they graduate.
Hog since birth.

Adam Stokes

February 18, 2007, 08:00:17 pm #86 Last Edit: February 18, 2007, 08:02:01 pm by ajs15razorman
  Beverly is certainly stacking up better than other SEC foes at the moment.  I'm too young to make to much an input on this thread, but the numbers don't lie,

Beverly's Stats among SEC contenders this year are: (^=amound SEC players *= among SEC freshmen)

Points per Game       
14.3 - 1st*
   14th^

Assists Per Game       
3.4 - T-1st*
   14th^

Rebounds Per Game     
4.5 - 4th*
   30th^

Steals Per Game
  2.0 - 1st*     
   T - 2nd^

    FT %
83% - 1st*                                   
     4th^

   3-pt %
44.4% - 2nd*
    4th^


  Certianly stacks up well against the rest of the SEC, by these numbers he should be SEC-Freshman of the year.   Top 4 in every major category except blocks.  Number 1 in FOUR categories.  How many of the other guys have won freshman of the year?  Also something worth mentioning, Beverly is probably playing on a worse team compared to the rest of th guys listed, he has to do more with less.

LJHOG

Quote from: Rusty Shackleford on February 18, 2007, 09:38:30 am
Moncrief was better.
Agree.  Without a doubt the best freshman ever, if not the best ever overall.

Bomis Hawg

I think the difference from #1 and #10 (Thurman or Moncrief to Huery or Beverley) is not that big.  Beverley does things on the court that most don't see or doesn't go into the stat book.  That's where he helps this team out.

His fire and emotion I think ranks in the top 3 of any freshman.  We truly wants it more than most players he goes against.  If he had a guy like Brewer, who was a Senior, he'd be much better.  As good as Beverley is, he needs a fellow guard that is going to do some of the dirty work.  Weems can't do them all, some though.

I think Patrick will rank as one of the best players in recent memory before he goes, though.  A definate top player in the SEC-era.

Karma

I'd say Scotty Thurman. I believe he put up 34 in his second game as a freshman at Arizona, plus he lit up Missouri on the road. Thurman played like a senior even when he was a freshman. Which I guess is good because he never made it to be a senior. But Beverly is very good too.

stevenwayneslane

Lee Mayberry was the best Freshman to play for Arkansas. No doubt about it. He was a great assit man and shooter. Also had super leadership skills.

JadedHog

moncrief was the best by far............he could bring the ball up the floor, shoot from the outside, post up down low, rebound, make steals, assists, great leader...........on and on and on.........i wish all razorback fans could have seen him play.

spudhog

thurman, both sets of tripletts, joe johnson all had great freshman campaign's. i wish beverly was on a better team. needless to say, he's the heatbeat of this team. i have never seen a freshman pull that off at the uofa ( i am only 25, never saw moncrief play).

jamie72921

Quote from: spudhog on February 19, 2007, 09:50:57 am
thurman, both sets of tripletts, joe johnson all had great freshman campaign's. i wish beverly was on a better team. needless to say, he's the heatbeat of this team. i have never seen a freshman pull that off at the uofa ( i am only 25, never saw moncrief play).

Thurman and Corliss were the heartbeats their freshman season.

Mayberry and Kareem Reid were better leaders in their first years as well.
Bless your heart

spudhog

Quote from: jamie72921 on February 19, 2007, 09:55:15 am
Quote from: spudhog on February 19, 2007, 09:50:57 am
thurman, both sets of tripletts, joe johnson all had great freshman campaign's. i wish beverly was on a better team. needless to say, he's the heatbeat of this team. i have never seen a freshman pull that off at the uofa ( i am only 25, never saw moncrief play).

Thurman and Corliss were the heartbeats their freshman season.

Mayberry and Kareem Reid were better leaders in their first years as well.

forgot about reid. the only reason i didn't put corliss up there was the fact he missed so much of his freshman season. ogviously, he impacted us a lot but i thought thurman was obviously the better freshman. 

sage_dragoon

In my time watching the hogs, Scotty Thurman's freshman year was sensational. He had several 25+ games, especially in Corliss's absence. If not for that darned James "Hollywood" Robinson, he may have led the league in scoring.
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