Arkansas basketball has lost it's personality

[natebracey]

People seem to forget that the 94 and 95 teams were not true "40 minutes of hell" teams like in Nolan's early days. That championship team (which scored 76 points in the final) played incredible defense (led by Beck and McDaniel), was tough inside (Corliss and even Darnell), and could shoot from the outside (Thurman and Steward). In fact, as good as Ron Brewer Jr was it is debatable if he would have even started on that team.

[silvertip]

The team has no doubt improved over the last 4+ years.  But the 2 most important factors in that improvement were continuity, and Ronne Brewer Jr. going fromFR. to SR... My personal choice for Coach of the Hogs resides at UCA.  His name is Rand Chappel... He turned Henderson State into a winner in 2 short years...

Thanks for demonstrating your profound knowledge of college BB. Yeah, it wasn't until Ronnie's SR year that Stan managed to improve, genius.

[donk]

Stan has proven to me that he can't coach.  We deserve better.  We have lost 3 games and haven't played a top 25 team yet.

Oh... and our team is boring as hell!

[HogJoeHelm]

West Virginia is 11-1.  Who's the 1?

Bingo

[silvertip]

I just think we play without emotion and the fans feed off the intensity of the team.
The team reflects the intensity of the coach.

We can play slow but still play with emotion.

Eddie Sutton's teams played slow but with heart and defense.
Nolan's teams played fast, with a ton of emotion.

You can't tell if Stan or his team are winning or losing.
Maybe he should take up poker. He has the face for it.

Maybe you should learn to watch a basketball game, and quit worrying about whether the coach looks like you think he should.

It's tough to watch these games lately.
I have ADD and the sound of that basketball bouncing on the hardwood in an empty gym distracts me.

Tell us about the empty gym tonight, or does your ADD get in the way of that, too?

Yeah, I can see how your ADD could lead you to yearn for Nolan's style. Most any other style of BB requires an attention span of at least 30 seconds to enjoy or understand.

[onehogfan]

This team is developing a personality. An identity is being to emerge, and if we can get even decent point guard play out of ervin we are gonig to be very salty. This type of basketball will not be nearly as exciting and "fun" to watch as 40 mins, but it will be SOLID. I am not a big fan of bigten bball, but it can be a winner.

We have improved every year under SH and this year should be no different. Empty seats need to be a thing of the past beginning with BAMA though or SH needs to be a little worried about his job security IMO.

[Hong Kong Sooey]

West Virginia is 11-1.  Who's the 1?

Bingo

Absolutely, I have been one of the people who has thought this team will be good and stood by it.  But so far, we haven't looked it in the games people were watching to judge where we are.  Against Mizzou and TT we looked lost.  Texas was a pretty good effort, but we still made a ton of errors.  SIU, Marist, WVU, ORU... Those are good teams.  Most will be in the field of 65.  Again, Joe Hog Fan has no clue of that fact.

[RAZORBART]

who is the 11 ?

[HDale]

I just think we play without emotion and the fans feed off the intensity of the team.
The team reflects the intensity of the coach.

We can play slow but still play with emotion.

Eddie Sutton's teams played slow but with heart and defense.
Nolan's teams played fast, with a ton of emotion.

You can't tell if Stan or his team are winning or losing.
Maybe he should take up poker. He has the face for it.

Maybe you should learn to watch a basketball game, and quit worrying about whether the coach looks like you think he should.

It's tough to watch these games lately.
I have ADD and the sound of that basketball bouncing on the hardwood in an empty gym distracts me.

Tell us about the empty gym tonight, or does your ADD get in the way of that, too?

Yeah, I can see how your ADD could lead you to yearn for Nolan's style. Most any other style of BB requires an attention span of at least 30 seconds to enjoy or understand.

The gym was less than half full tonight.

That is pretty sad for a team with a good record and a Saturday afternoon game.

You explain the lack of interest to me, since I'm obviously too stupid to understand.

[mudslog]

We whupped up on that 2-9 team didnt we?...man.....I betcha Hill was thinking he was playing the blue hairs again up in Branson.   

[NATEHOGG216]

ok fourthcrusade, I have been biting my tounge all year on stan but I don't think I can handle anymore of your heath loving.  what exactly makes him so great. we made it to the ncaa tourney last year bc we had a lotto pick that grew up 5 min from campus. we didn't mange to make it past the first round bc we were saving our legs for the second round that we didn't make bc of poor coaching. I know bucknell is a powerhouse(ask uca) but that was pretty much a home game for us, trust me I was there. great coaching.  on to recruiting, we still don't have a pg except for mccurdy who evidently can't hack it and we have gary(he must be great for msu not to care if he goes to a school in the same division of the same conf. and sh had 5 years. great recruiting, I don't see why we would be upset.  on to this year, 3 losses no top 25 teams played yet. u can say it is bc we r young but really, who's fault is that? not mine or yours, it must be the coaches, this is year 5.  we have arguably THE BEST ARENA in college bball so I guess I just don't see why.  now you tell me why I should love all over heath.


disclaimer, I think beverly is going to be one of the greatest to ever wear a hog uni. and I have been to every home game this year and will go to the ncaa tourney again this year if we make it, but sh bball is boring and up to this day not very good

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

Hawgball



Both may accomplish the same thing but which would you prefer

Funny, i can't seem to find any covers from 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, or 2002... oh wait yes i can:

Well you will never find one with Heath or a Heath led team.

Heath may make Cityscapes or NWA Society but that's about it.

[whatsshakinbacon]

I had tickets but didn't go.  Watched on TV until I fell asleep in 1st half.

why not just burn money then?  its faster.  you wasted your tickets, and wehad 80 pts with 4 min left.  couldnt stay awake for a blowout win huh?

We are in the entertainment age, fourthcrusade.

It's all about entertainment.

admittedly, there is better entertainment when we are playing someone of note.  And we dont have an entertaining brand of basketball to begin with.  Its not that beating La Tech by 30 is a bad thing, it was expected.   Its just Arkansas fans are used to us winning that game 100-70 instead of 80-50...

doesnt the 50 make up for not getting 100?  nolan's teams traditionally would let cupcakes score 60s and 70s, whereas we held s. illinois, wva, marist, etc, in the 50s...

so because we are stronger on 'd' we are "boring"?  did i miss something? 


(p.s. - stans teams have scored 100, or 90 even more than nolans taems in that same time)

Fortunately for me I can be dispassionate about this.

I grew up on Eddie Sutton basketball. "Discipline, dedication, and defense." As a result I HATED Nolan Richardson basketball for about the first five years he was there. To be more precise, I hated it until Lee Mayberry, Oliver Miller, and Todd Day showed up and we started winning 30 games a season and going to the Final Four.

Most of our fans grew up on Nolan Richardson's style, so for many of them there is no other style. Period.

As for me, I'm all for it.............just as soon as I see that Heath IS giving us what Eddie Sutton and Nolan Richardson did. Until then, I don't much care.     

Wilson - I too grew up on Sutton ball and hated the first year or two of Nolan...but quickly learned to like it when we began playing well.

But I have to say that Sutton's ball had a personality, even if it was half court.  His focus on getting the ball inside and great shooting from the elbow were packaged with an unbelievable half court trap defense.  I can remember Walker, Robertson and others forcing some great turnovers at the corner of the mid-court stripe and out of bounds line.  We fed on defense those days, and continued to feed on it when Nolan got things up and running.

With Heath I see little defense.  The passion I'm used to with both of the previous coaching styles seems to be gone there.

There was an understanding by Sutton and Nolan of when to go for the jugular that Heath's teams have never had.

Bacon out...

[cityhog]

West Virginia is 11-1.  Who's the 1?

Bingo

Absolutely, I have been one of the people who has thought this team will be good and stood by it.  But so far, we haven't looked it in the games people were watching to judge where we are.  Against Mizzou and TT we looked lost.  Texas was a pretty good effort, but we still made a ton of errors.  SIU, Marist, WVU, ORU... Those are good teams.  Most will be in the field of 65.  Again, Joe Hog Fan has no clue of that fact.

Again I beak out the Churchill quote...'The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." 

Joe Hogfan needs to wake the f up.

[fourthcrusade]

much of hogville doesnt personally root for the hogs, in fact they root against heath

There are a couple of conclusions one might draw from this statement:
1)  You don't understand words such as much and seem to indicate a majority
2)  You like spewing stuff against this board because you have an agenda (possibly from another board)

Take your pick.

haha, i dont even get #2, ive never been on another board in my life.

fact is, everyone and their brother said we'd be 11-3 heading into SEC play, losing 1 in old spice, and 2 of the 3 non-home big 12 games

well guess what, we lost NONE of the old spice, but lost ALL the 3 big 12 games.... and we are still going to be 11-3 heading into sec play

the mood has changed from nov 15 to dec 30, it has soured, and yet we are meeting expectations.... what's the deal?  sec ball has yet to tip off and people are saying we arent even going to make the tourney?  WTH?  that's what i don't get, and that's what bugs me.

[HeathWimp]

I dont' like Heath because he acts like a wimp.  Hence the handle.

[fourthcrusade]

I dont' like Heath because he acts like a wimp.  Hence the handle.

did you watch the texas game?  just wondering.

[Cajun Hog]

Yeah, wow, we just won by 30 points and had 7 turnovers in the whole game.  Steven hill made 2 alley-oops.


We SUCK.  Disband our 10-3 team NOW.

We play sister of the poor and should have won by that much.

[Pigonometry]

Yep, that is what I am saying.  For 17 years All Arkansas fans knew was 40 minutes of hell...  We didnt play great defense, and so we won alot of games 100-70  or 100-80.     Now this team doesnt have near the offense, but plays better defense.   

But frankly, most fans would rather watch us win 100-70  then 80-50...because they want exciting, and alot of scoring is exciting...
[/quote]

We didn't play good defense?  What were you watching in the 1990s?  The Razorbacks' pressure defense made many good teams look plain silly.  We'd force 25 turnover alomost every game.

[fourthcrusade]

We didn't play good defense?  What were you watching in the 1990s?  The Razorbacks' pressure defense made many good teams look plain silly.  We'd force 25 turnover alomost every game.

slow down... nolan's teams averaged about 5 more turnovers a game than we do, or a few more each half.  2 more tos a half is hardly what i'd call an argument for pressure defense -- we make up for those tos with actually making free throws, and rebounding

now shooting on the other hand, until this year, was atrocious

[Hawgon]

I loved Sutton ball.  I am not addicted to 40 minutes of hell.  I just like good basketball, and we don't play 'good' basketball very often.  Sure, Eddie's teams played slow, but you could hang your hat on the absolutely stifling man-to-man defense that they were going to play every minute of every night.  

We just don't have an identity.  We are not tough.  We will play good defense for 30 seconds only to give up a wide open 3.  We will fail to block out.  We will fail to pick up the ball and allow someone to drive to the basket.  And perhaps, most frustratingly (for a team allegedly running a motion offense) we will stand around on offense and have absolutely no movement while just passing the ball around the perimeter.  We do all of this time and time and time again.  We see games or even stretches of games where we improve, only to go back to these same mistakes over and over.

Until this team gets an identity, plays tough, and refuses to make those kinds of mistakes, we will not be truly successful.

[pigfeet]

I do not enjoy our basketball program now. I guess its the style of play. Heath sometimes reminds me of the coach from the movie Waterboy. When things start going bad, he looks like he wants to run away or that he lost his manhood or something. Doesn't look like a leader.

[whatsshakinbacon]

I do not enjoy our basketball program now. I guess its the style of play. Heath sometimes reminds me of the coach from the movie Waterboy. When things start going bad, he looks like he wants to run away or that he lost his manhood or something. Doesn't look like a leader.

He should be more like Momma from the waterboy.  She was a leader. 

And foosball's da debil.

Bacon out...

[Brand X Hog Fan]

The team took a huge step toward defining its identity and personality today.

Charles Thomas embodies the personality of this team. Professional, matter of fact, and business like. Many positives manifested today and will hopefully carry over into the conference run.

Guards handled the ball well. They dished out assists, set up the offense and were patient, looking for the open man. The fed the ball inside and reaped the outside shots as rewards.

Front court was stellar. Hill was a presence and Thomas was THE Man. Townes still worries me. Wahington opened up a little and showed what he is capable of.

Pressure Defense? From the Hogs? Yep! They played some pressure D. Got burned a couple times but played it none the less and forced some turnovers.

Clutch, clutch, clutch at the line. I will give Hill the benefit of the doubt about his fingers. If Charles can get to the line for 15 shots a game and make 10 or 11 of them, we will win a lot of games.

Stan actually coached. His wholesale substitution today was huge. Gave the kids some confidence and threw a lot of new looks for La Tech to deal with.

Finally, there was levity and interaction on the bench between Heath and the players. I think they were all actualy having fun today.

Maybe it is just because Monday is the end of football season, or the fact that the conference basketball season is just around the corner, but today's game sparked a little hope in me for the basketball team to succeed.

Good Luck Hogs!

WPS!

[pigfeet]

I do not enjoy our basketball program now. I guess its the style of play. Heath sometimes reminds me of the coach from the movie Waterboy. When things start going bad, he looks like he wants to run away or that he lost his manhood or something. Doesn't look like a leader.

He should be more like Momma from the waterboy.  She was a leader. 

And foosball's da debil.

Bacon out...

True, lets slap hands.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

The team took a huge step toward defining its identity and personality today.

Charles Thomas embodies the personality of this team. Professional, matter of fact, and business like. Many positives manifested today and will hopefully carry over into the conference run.

Guards handled the ball well. They dished out assists, set up the offense and were patient, looking for the open man. The fed the ball inside and reaped the outside shots as rewards.

Front court was stellar. Hill was a presence and Thomas was THE Man. Townes still worries me. Wahington opened up a little and showed what he is capable of.

Pressure Defense? From the Hogs? Yep! They played some pressure D. Got burned a couple times but played it none the less and forced some turnovers.

Clutch, clutch, clutch at the line. I will give Hill the benefit of the doubt about his fingers. If Charles can get to the line for 15 shots a game and make 10 or 11 of them, we will win a lot of games.

Stan actually coached. His wholesale substitution today was huge. Gave the kids some confidence and threw a lot of new looks for La Tech to deal with.

Finally, there was levity and interaction on the bench between Heath and the players. I think they were all actualy having fun today.

Maybe it is just because Monday is the end of football season, or the fact that the conference basketball season is just around the corner, but today's game sparked a little hope in me for the basketball team to succeed.

Good Luck Hogs!

WPS!

I'm holding out on Stan and the team.  It's easy to look good against the Oaklands and La Techs of the world.  The coaching moves look good but I think any move would look good.  I'm not saying they were right or wrong, but I want to see it against a Bama, or an LSU on a consistent basis.  I want to see "Yeah they had us stumped but we made some half time adjustments and won"

[fourthcrusade]

I feel we will surprise a LOT of people in a good way in the Bama game.

Florida?  who knows. uab played them well, but florida made dumb mistakes.  we could lose that by 20, who knows, if our inside is weak.

But Bama?  I say we will surprise a LOT of people.....

[Brand X Hog Fan]

I'm holding out on Stan and the team.  It's easy to look good against the Oaklands and La Techs of the world.  The coaching moves look good but I think any move would look good.  I'm not saying they were right or wrong, but I want to see it against a Bama, or an LSU on a consistent basis.  I want to see "Yeah they had us stumped but we made some half time adjustments and won"

Exactly, Dwight. Stan is notorious for having a solid game followed by absolutely stinking the place up. the Tulsa game will tell us something but the early SEC run will tell the tale. I am keeping an open mind . . .

[whatsshakinbacon]

The team took a huge step toward defining its identity and personality today.

I've said this so many times before I just can't say it again.

Louisiana Tech is horrible.  They are 2-10.  I can say we beat them worse than anybody else has this year (including Texas A&M and LSU) but I grow weary of thinking we've gelled.

I hope you are right, don't get me wrong, but until we put together several good games with a consistent gameplan I'll say we're still a team without an identity.  That lack of identity is the responsibility of our coaching staff. 

Bacon out...

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

I will say this, just checked Bama's schedule and it is weaker than Clay Aiken's wrist.  We need a good crowd for that one, but the Hogs should go into the game thinking they should win.  Stan should go into it thinking he's going to pimp slap an Elephant. 

[Pigonometry]

We didn't play good defense?  What were you watching in the 1990s?  The Razorbacks' pressure defense made many good teams look plain silly.  We'd force 25 turnover alomost every game.

slow down... nolan's teams averaged about 5 more turnovers a game than we do, or a few more each half.  2 more tos a half is hardly what i'd call an argument for pressure defense -- we make up for those tos with actually making free throws, and rebounding

now shooting on the other hand, until this year, was atrocious

I was in school there from 1986 to 1990, went to many games in Barnhill in the early 90s and have been a season ticket holder since BWA opened.  So I've seen a lot of Hog games under Nolan and to say his presure defense was overated is absurd.

You'd see players with a look of death in their eyes as they were warming up because they knew what was in store for them, getting hounded up and down the court all day.  Yes, we'd give up a few easy baskets and make a few turnovers ourself but it was almost always worth it because it would speed up the game and get them to play right into our hands --- and then we'd make a big run right before halftime and blow it open.

IMHO, the best defensive Razorback team ever was the 1990-1991 team that lost in the Regional Final to Kansas.

[fourthcrusade]

We didn't play good defense?  What were you watching in the 1990s?  The Razorbacks' pressure defense made many good teams look plain silly.  We'd force 25 turnover alomost every game.

slow down... nolan's teams averaged about 5 more turnovers a game than we do, or a few more each half.  2 more tos a half is hardly what i'd call an argument for pressure defense -- we make up for those tos with actually making free throws, and rebounding

now shooting on the other hand, until this year, was atrocious

I was in school there from 1986 to 1990, went to many games in Barnhill in the early 90s and have been a season ticket holder since BWA opened.  So I've seen a lot of Hog games under Nolan and to say his presure defense was overated is absurd.

You'd see players with a look of death in their eyes as theywre warming up because they knew what was in store for them, getting hounded up and down the court all day.  Yes, we'd give up a few easy baksets and make a few turnovers ourself but it was almost always worth it because it would speed up the game and get them to play right into our hands --- and then we'd make a big run right before halftime and blow it open.

IMHO, the best defensive Razorback team ever was the 1990-1991 team that lost in the Regional Final to Kansas.

maybe, im just saying statistically, his teams averaged about 18-21 tos forced on opponents a game, and heath's teams have averaged about 15-16 tos forced on opponents.... sure nolan had more, but not "turn a loss into a blowout" more.

did nolan have better SHOOTERS?  heck yeah.
POINT GUARDS?  anyone bringing the ball up looked better than heath's points, except the few games brewer played point. 

just saying, the older we great, the greater we all make these nolan teams out to be, when in reality, they were "great", not "amazingly great"

(OBVIOUSLY 3 Final Fourst in 6 years is great, what i mean is, the 92 team, the 97-02 team, etc... pressure d didnt always equal 30 wins.. .nolans teams, outside the FF years, average about 23-11.  not THAT spectacular!  sometimes (ont he ROAD) pressure D just doesnt work, because the slaps are called as FOULS)

[AltaHog]

.....Stan should go into it thinking he's going to pimp slap an Elephant. 

Let's take it easy on those Elephants for a few more days. They could be a Man's best friend.

[RunDmacRun]

I agree its not that exciting, I have season tickets and havent gone all year. I'm planning on going though and I thought we looked pretty good today. Not a good LA Tech team but at least we were knocking shots down.

[fourthcrusade]

I agree its not that exciting, I have season tickets and havent gone all year. I'm planning on going though and I thought we looked pretty good today. Not a good LA Tech team but at least we were knocking shots down.

Will you be at the bama game?  Just curious, i'm hoping the crowds show up for SEc play/SECopener/divisonrival/nationally ranked/heck it's bama

[Fatty McGee]

Yep, that is what I am saying.  For 17 years All Arkansas fans knew was 40 minutes of hell...  We didnt play great defense, and so we won alot of games 100-70  or 100-80.     Now this team doesnt have near the offense, but plays better defense.  

But frankly, most fans would rather watch us win 100-70  then 80-50...because they want exciting, and alot of scoring is exciting...

The last half of those 17 years we played a lot of half court.  Our two teams in the finals were much more dominant in the halfcourt because their best player, Corliss, was not a runner and gunner.  And Beck, Dwight Stewart, and Scotty weren't winning any track meets.

[BaldHeadedHippy]

I agree, Arkansas has no personality.

[TushCrush]

This team is developing a personality. Slowly but surely. His name is Charles Thomas


Go Charles ...

[fineswine]

Boring and uninspiring is a personality.