The Basics We Should Expect to See From the 3-4 Defensive Alignment

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I've posted these videos from this former Coach before but since we are down to 64 days until we kick off our season, I thought I would post this again. He does a great job explaining the basic 3-4, the advantages of the 3-4 and the personnel selection for each position. I think (and I hope) that Paul Rhoads will help provide the Hogs with an improved defense this season.

Take a look at the video and let's discuss.

https://youtu.be/Aebo6gnkuQM

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Here is the scheme defending against the run. Actual game clip instruction starts at about 7:00 minutes in.

https://youtu.be/_ag2W6YsiRo

[gchamblee]

I am not qualified to discuss the x's and o's of any scheme as I am just a casual fan that enjoys watching football, but I really hope this new scheme gives the talent that we have a better opportunity to make the plays we need to get a few more stops per game. Switching to the 3-4 has me really excited to watch the defense this year and I can honestly say I am excited to have CPR as our DC. Plus, we seem to have ticked up on our defensive talent through recruiting. We have landed some quality DB's.

[FANONTHEHILL]

Here is a link about Dick LaBeau and the Steelers defense from a few years ago.  It is a great example of how the 3-4 can evolve as personnel change over the years.  This is especially true in college football where your entire roster turns over every five years.

http://presnapreads.com/2014/05/24/dissecting-pittsburgh-steelers-defensive-coordiantor-dick-lebeaus-ability-to-adapt/

[factchecker]

http://www.secsports.com/video/19646580/hogs-transition-new-defense-coach-rhoads

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I am not qualified to discuss the x's and o's of any scheme as I am just a casual fan that enjoys watching football, but I really hope this new scheme gives the talent that we have a better opportunity to make the plays we need to get a few more stops per game. Switching to the 3-4 has me really excited to watch the defense this year and I can honestly say I am excited to have CPR as our DC. Plus, we seem to have ticked up on our defensive talent through recruiting. We have landed some quality DB's.

It is my hope that by utilizing these techniques, our front 7 will shut down the run better and allow fewer big plays. Of course a part of that is being aligned properly to begin with, another part is executing your responsibility on any given play and of course, making good tackles. But if they use the concepts demonstrated in this video, while they are pursuing to the ball, at the same time they are using the bodies of blockers to help seal-up holes, compressing the area within which the RB has room to run, which forces the RB to try to adjust and bounce to one side or the other of the planned running lane. That "should" allow LB's or walked up Safeties the chance to secure the tackle.

[gchamblee]

http://www.secsports.com/video/19646580/hogs-transition-new-defense-coach-rhoads

Nice video. I know it shouldn't but it gets me pumped

[gchamblee]

It is my hope that by utilizing these techniques, our front 7 will shut down the run better and allow fewer big plays. Of course a part of that is being aligned properly to begin with, another part is executing your responsibility on any given play and of course, making good tackles. But if they use the concepts demonstrated in this video, while they are pursuing to the ball, at the same time they are using the bodies of blockers to help seal-up holes, compressing the area within which the RB has room to run, which forces the RB to try to adjust and bounce to one side or the other of the planned running lane. That "should" allow LB's or walked up Safeties the chance to secure the tackle.

I just feel like if we had only eliminated 1 or 2 big plays per game last year, the results would have been really different.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Here is a segment on blitzing to stop the run in the 3-4.

https://youtu.be/zrdrh22iXhc

[MuskogeeHogFan]

And here are the Base Coverages out of the 3-4 defense.

https://youtu.be/47iHcktLGEk

[tampahog]

what worries me most is the increased dependency on LBs which is the position that we have struggled with the most to recruit and our state doesn't produce a wealth of SEC quality LBs.  I assume we will need at least 8 serviceable LBs to make this defense go.   Do we think moving to a 3-4 will improve our ability to recruit more and higher quality LBs ?

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I just feel like if we had only eliminated 1 or 2 big plays per game last year, the results would have been really different.

We allowed an average of 13.5 plays per game of 10 yards or more last season and each big play averaged 22.8 yards. Alabama allowed 10, so we would be in pretty good shape if we could allow just 4 plays less per game of 10 yards or more.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

what worries me most is the increased dependency on LBs which is the position that we have struggled with the most to recruit and our state doesn't produce a wealth of SEC quality LBs.  I assume we will need at least 8 serviceable LBs to make this defense go.   Do we think moving to a 3-4 will improve our ability to recruit more and higher quality LBs ?

We have 18 on the team, so we have some bodies to work with.

[The NewEra]

Good stuff Muskogee.  Thanks for sharing.

[Buff]

It is my hope that by utilizing these techniques, our front 7 will shut down the run better and allow fewer big plays. Of course a part of that is being aligned properly to begin with, another part is executing your responsibility on any given play and of course, making good tackles. But if they use the concepts demonstrated in this video, while they are pursuing to the ball, at the same time they are using the bodies of blockers to help seal-up holes, compressing the area within which the RB has room to run, which forces the RB to try to adjust and bounce to one side or the other of the planned running lane. That "should" allow LB's or walked up Safeties the chance to secure the tackle.

I like the idea of a smart, aggressive, fast 3-4 defense.  Not sure if we have the players for that just yet, but I'm likely wrong.  Bret's still going to be at Arkansas for awhile yet, so hopefully they can take this 3-4 and build it into a top-level unit in the SEC.

[jst01]

We have 18 on the team, so we have some bodies to work with.

that's never been a positive for us. Our LB's scare me, and not in a "oh my those guys are scary big and mean" kind of way. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

that's never been a positive for us. Our LB's scare me, and not in a "oh my those guys are scary big and mean" kind of way. 

When was the last time we had 18 LB's in that position group?

Maybe the quality of our LB'ers are getting better. You could always stroll by practice one day and see if they scare you in a good way, now. I'm kidding, I do understand where you are coming from but I also think we have recruited better LB's as well.

[bphi11ips]

When was the last time we had 18 LB's in that position group?

Maybe the quality of our LB'ers are getting better. You could always stroll by practice one day and see if they scare you in a good way, now. I'm kidding, I do understand where you are coming from but I also think we have recruited better LB's as well.

I wonder if we've been recruiting towards this change for a few years.  Guys like Randy Ramsey and Jamario Bell are built for the outside LB position in the 3-4. Long and fast.  Sort of a hybrid end/LB/big safety.  It does seem as if our personnel fits the scheme better than the 4-3, and the scheme is better suited to defend the zone reads and RPOs that killed us last year. 

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I wonder if we've been recruiting towards this change for a few years.  Guys like Randy Ramsey and Jamario Bell are built for the outside LB position in the 3-4. Long and fast.  Sort of a hybrid end/LB/big safety.  It does seem as if our personnel fits the scheme better than the 4-3, and the scheme is better suited to defend the zone reads and RPOs that killed us last year. 

I think it is possible that Bielema has had this change in his mind since 2015. I also think that he thought that Robb Smith might be around for the change. But after he saw the regression in the 2015 season under the supervision and planning of Smith, I think that is what he went out and got Paul Rhoads after the 2015 season...perhaps anticipation of the potential future. Hindsight is 20/20 but I wish that when he knew that he could get Rhoads, that he had let Robb Smith go and positioned Rhoads as the DC for 2016. I think we would be a lot further ahead at this point and we might not have been so bad in 2016. But if Bielema has one fault, it has to be loyalty to his coaches and he might hold on a tad longer, giving them a chance to turn it around, rather than having the proverbial, "quick trigger".

[bphi11ips]

I think it is possible that Bielema has had this change in his mind since 2015. I also think that he thought that Robb Smith might be around for the change. But after he saw the regression in the 2015 season under the supervision and planning of Smith, I think that is what he went out and got Paul Rhoads after the 2015 season...perhaps anticipation of the potential future. Hindsight is 20/20 but I wish that when he knew that he could get Rhoads, that he had let Robb Smith go and positioned Rhoads as the DC for 2016. I think we would be a lot further ahead at this point and we might not have been so bad in 2016. But if Bielema has one fault, it has to be loyalty to his coaches and he might hold on a tad longer, giving them a chance to turn it around, rather than having the proverbial, "quick trigger".

Maybe, but Robb Smith defenses produced before. And we had a good group of ends last year for the 4-3. Plus, Brooks Ellis is a more traditional 4-3 Mike LB. If Bielema had seen the injuries to Wise and Greenlaw coming, the 3-4 might have made sense last year. As it turned out, Ellis was often on an island the second half of the season trying to defend too much ground in the middle. That may be why we often looked like we were playing with 9 or 10 defenders.

Bielema may have hired Paul Rhoads planning for 2017 and beyond. If so, it now looks like a good move. If Smith saw the handwriting on the wall, that could explain the chemistry issues many see from Auburn on.

Bret Bielema seems like a long-term planner. The more I think about this defensive change the more I think it's going to be a pleasant surprise.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Maybe, but Robb Smith defenses produced before. And we had a good group of ends last year for the 4-3. Plus, Brooks Ellis is a more traditional 4-3 Mike LB. If Bielema had seen the injuries to Wise and Greenlaw coming, the 3-4 might have made sense last year. As it turned out, Ellis was often on an island the second half of the season trying to defend too much ground in the middle. That may be why we often looked like we were playing with 9 or 10 defenders.

Bielema may have hired Paul Rhoads planning for 2017 and beyond. If so, it now looks like a good move. If Smith saw the handwriting on the wall, that could explain the chemistry issues many see from Auburn on.

Bret Bielema seems like a long-term planner. The more I think about this defensive change the more I think it's going to be a pleasant surprise.

I'm not saying that the switch to a 3-4 would have come sooner just because Rhoads might have been hired as the DC. By what you were suggesting, it is possible that they have been recruiting for the 3-4 the last couple of years, in anticipation of the change. But I will say that Brooks Ellis would have been made a better MLB in a 3-4 than the 4-3, which often left him with pass coverage responsibilities that he should never have been schemed for. As mentioned in the video's above, the MLB is the QB of the front 7, but in the 3-4 he is given less ground to cover. I'm sure that includes not having to cover a WR up the middle seam.

[tophawg19]

that's never been a positive for us. Our LB's scare me, and not in a "oh my those guys are scary big and mean" kind of way. 

y'all fail to realize , this defense uses 2 actual LB's and 2 small tweener DE's as LB's .something that is everywhere . I was told by a former coach that this defense is a full 1/2 second faster at reacting to a play . Doesn't sound like much till you realize that it is about 3 steps and allows the D-line to engage faster before the O-line can really get set. He basically compared it to the old run and shoot offense in the old days , The defense creates so many options that the offense has more to think about and often over thinks things . Especially when they don't see it every week and thete are many variations based on personal groups .change 1 or 2 players and it can be a 4-4-3 , 5-2-4, 4-3-4 or even a hybrid 2-5-4. all from a base 3-4

[bphi11ips]

I'm not saying that the switch to a 3-4 would have come sooner just because Rhoads might have been hired as the DC. By what you were suggesting, it is possible that they have been recruiting for the 3-4 the last couple of years, in anticipation of the change. But I will say that Brooks Ellis would have been made a better MLB in a 3-4 than the 4-3, which often left him with pass coverage responsibilities that he should never have been schemed for. As mentioned in the video's above, the MLB is the QB of the front 7, but in the 3-4 he is given less ground to cover. I'm sure that includes not having to cover a WR up the middle seam.

I agree about Ellis. His problem in the 4-3 was that he didn't have the support he needed to defend the offenses he faced.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I agree about Ellis. His problem in the 4-3 was that he didn't have the support he needed to defend the offenses he faced.

Not sure if you listened to the video's that I provided or not, but this Coach talks about the necessity of scheming coverages so that you squeeze everything to the middle from a coverage standpoint so that you have more people around the ball. Think about the times that we saw Ellis isolated on a WR up that middle seam, or, when the OC schemed us with their alignment and motion so everyone in coverage was pushed outside and Ellis had responsibility for a WR running out and up the sideline. Didn't even have to throw outside...QB up the middle. Texas A&M anyone? Made that kid look like a superstar when it was nothing more than getting outschemed.

[tophawg19]

one thing he did say was the switching defenses was very situational due to the mentality differences but that the ability does take away some advantages of the hurry up offense since as litle as a 1 player change can give a whole different look . Especially when using a big D-linemen and 1 bigger LB/rush end type

[factchecker]

I hope the move to 3-4 allows us to adjust within the formation.

I think one (of the many) problems with our defense was the constant rotating of personnel in and out on every play.  We were constantly out of position against teams like Texas Tech and Auburn.  There was a play against Ole Miss where we had nobody covering the right side (left on offense) of the field.

I think with the 3-4 you can keep your defensive line in and rotate the linebackers around them (moving the Hog linebacker down to the line against a run heavy formation).

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I hope the move to 3-4 allows us to adjust within the formation.

I think one (of the many) problems with our defense was the constant rotating of personnel in and out on every play.  We were constantly out of position against teams like Texas Tech and Auburn.  There was a play against Ole Miss where we had nobody covering the right side (left on offense) of the field.

I think with the 3-4 you can keep your defensive line in and rotate the linebackers around them (moving the Hog linebacker down to the line against a run heavy formation).

One thing that works in our favor after last years "chinese fire drill" on defense is that these kids are being sold that the concept is easier to understand, and makes us more aggressive. It does do those things but I don't think that the mental benefit can be discounted. We'll be tougher on defense this year not only because a 3-4 allows us so many options to do so, but because the team will believe in it and that is worth a ton.

[factchecker]

One thing that works in our favor after last years "chinese fire drill" on defense is that these kids are being sold that the concept is easier to understand, and makes us more aggressive. It does do those things but I don't think that the mental benefit can be discounted. We'll be tougher on defense this year not only because a 3-4 allows us so many options to do so, but because the team will believe in it and that is worth a ton.

Sounds great.  I hope we get rid of the "paddy cake" technique with the defensive line.   I don't want to see our line standing up, playing hand games, and getting zero rush.  Run some stunts.  Cancel some gaps.

[tophawg19]

I hope the move to 3-4 allows us to adjust within the formation.

I think one (of the many) problems with our defense was the constant rotating of personnel in and out on every play.  We were constantly out of position against teams like Texas Tech and Auburn.  There was a play against Ole Miss where we had nobody covering the right side (left on offense) of the field.

I think with the 3-4 you can keep your defensive line in and rotate the linebackers around them (moving the Hog linebacker down to the line against a run heavy formation).

Our staff last year was too slow to get players in and out against spread teams. they weren't mentally ready as the game went on. This defense does less thinking and reacting and more read and attack. That allows for that 1/2 second faster . Also we can shift 1 or 2 players and totally confuse an offense with multiple looks and disguises . As far as mentally there has been a ton of weight lifted from them. now they are asked to do their job , not something impossible like our MLB was asked to do.

[supersaint]

Bring back Coach Jim Washburn

[factchecker]

Bring back Coach Jim Washburn

He's probably happy down in Miami.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Sounds great.  I hope we get rid of the "paddy cake" technique with the defensive line.   I don't want to see our line standing up, playing hand games, and getting zero rush.  Run some stunts.  Cancel some gaps.

The videos that I offered to everyone at the beginning of this thread detail how the D-Line should play that scheme and how the LB's are involved in stopping the run, blitzing to the stop the run and pass rushing. D-Linemen used to be coached to flow to the ball and penetrate. This scheme encourages flowing to the ball but using the bodies of the OL/TE's to close down gaps, which allows the LB's or walked up Safeties to close and make the play or for the D-Line to make the play when they stuff the hole. I like that better because it is not only a team effort with a plan, but a lot easier to just get in the way than strike an oncoming O-Lineman and shed him. Better to use his body to seal off a hole as we flow to the ball.

[ChitownHawg]

I've posted these videos from this former Coach before but since we are down to 64 days until we kick off our season, I thought I would post this again. He does a great job explaining the basic 3-4, the advantages of the 3-4 and the personnel selection for each position. I think (and I hope) that Paul Rhoads will help provide the Hogs with an improved defense this season.

Take a look at the video and let's discuss.

https://youtu.be/Aebo6gnkuQM

As he went down his bullet points, I found simplicity and fundamentals to be encouraging. Rhodes is known for stressing fundamentals and simplicity should help for a quicker install.

[factchecker]

A healthy Greenlaw will help tremendously.

https://twitter.com/colecubelic/status/878764518964420608

[Boss Hog in the Arkansas]

Sounds great.  I hope we get rid of the "paddy cake" technique with the defensive line.   I don't want to see our line standing up, playing hand games, and getting zero rush.  Run some stunts.  Cancel some gaps.

Agree 100%

[MuskogeeHogFan]

A healthy Greenlaw will help tremendously.

https://twitter.com/colecubelic/status/878764518964420608

I'm excited to see how the projected starting four LB's (coming out of spring) will do in the fall.

R. Ramsey, Jr., 6-4, 228         D. Greenlaw, Jr., 6-0, 226         D. Harris, So., 6-0, 240           K. Roesler, Sr., 6-1, 256
        Razor OLB                                  WLB                                    MLB                                  Hog OLB

[Hoggish1]

that's never been a positive for us. Our LB's scare me, and not in a "oh my those guys are scary big and mean" kind of way. 

Well, having 18 on the team should scare any of the other 17 at any particular point in their practice relationships.  When you only have six or seven serviceable ones and competition is minimal, that's what scares me.

[BigE_23]

A healthy Greenlaw will help tremendously.

Agreed. He will thrive in this formation.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Well, having 18 on the team should scare any of the other 17 at any particular point in their practice relationships.  When you only have six or seven serviceable ones and competition is minimal, that's what scares me.

The shortest amount of depth is at MLB, but we are 3 deep there. The question is, what is the performance drop-off from 1 to 2 and 2 to 3?

[HF#1]

We'll see Alabama and LSU run for 300+ yards

[MuskogeeHogFan]

We'll see Alabama and LSU run for 300+ yards

You hope, which is pretty sad.

[King Kong]

We'll see Alabama and LSU run for 300+ yards

So an improvement

[MuskogeeHogFan]

So an improvement

Not exactly. Alabama didn't run for over 300 yards last season though they were close, LSU just big played us. I suspect neither will get close to the same number of rushing yards this coming season when we play them. But you boys have your fun for now.

[daBoar]

Not exactly. Alabama didn't run for over 300 yards last season though they were close, LSU just big played us. I suspect neither will get close to the same number of rushing yards this coming season when we play them. But you boys have your fun for now.

Well, Auburn is still running against last year's Hog D.  Can they run again for 500+ against us.........er, both halves in total?  LSU big played us to a modest (in comparison to Aubie) 390 yards.  I'm not yet a believer the change to 3-4 alone will solve this problem....Aubie and LSU simply blew by us.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

Well, Auburn is still running against last year's Hog D.  Can they run again for 500+ against us.........er, both halves in total?  LSU big played us to a modest (in comparison to Aubie) 390 yards.  I'm not yet a believer the change to 3-4 alone will solve this problem....Aubie and LSU simply blew by us.

How much of a believer are you in anything positive involving the Hogs future? Auburn was a snowball rolling downhill and was the start of the attitude problems for the Hogs last season that contributed to some of what we saw in the last half of the season.

[factchecker]

Let's hope Rhoad's defense has us replicate this more often:

https://twitter.com/CoachRhoadsUA/status/795073599975591936

[daBoar]

How much of a believer are you in anything positive involving the Hogs future? ......

At this time I'm a hoper.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

At this time I'm a hoper.

You do sound as if you aren't even "that" high on the Hogs this year.

[tbhogfan]

After the last two years, I'm much more concerned about execution than scheme.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

After the last two years, I'm much more concerned about execution than scheme.

The scheme last year was part of the reason for an inefficiency in terms of execution.