A lot of y'all say we need to recruit better

[Jim Harris]

If the Hogs ever field a team, especially on D, where the majority of the players are 3 & 4 star players from OUTSIDE Arkansas, they will win the sec, until then we will continue to struggle.

The color analyst on the game hit it on the head in the 3rd Q Sat night " It does not matter what defense you run, if the offensive players are better than your defensive players, you will get beat ".

yep. And on that note, did anyone notice how well Alabama's defense blocks when they get a turnover. Arkansas's best O-lineman got pancaked by a Bama DL on the fumble return. The interception return was flat-out humorous with the speed differential because their DL and Arkansas's OL that bothered to chase Fitzpatrick.
It's about the Jimmies and the Joes, and when people understand that, they'll stop this mess about "We need to fire [inside coordinator's name here] and replace him with [wishfully thinking name here]."

[Swinesong1]

So you think the LRSD is okay? You think the rate of kids who are either not even going to school, or have grades too low to qualify to play hs football is acceptable in that area? The lrsd needs bashed for many reasons, the least of which are athletics. Did you see what happened to one of the lr hs football teams earlier this year, they lost a game in which they had NEGATIVE yards. How can a public hs in the states largest city have a team that bad?

Totally different argument!  My post was directed to the "we need the LRSD to help our football team" narrative.  When before, it was "screw central AR.  NWA with it's superior money, facilities, coaches n people will be more than enough".

[The Kig]

Short of major changes in redistricting schools and kids solely based on developing a feeder system for distribution of football players (which would actually be a terrible idea for the rest of the kids who don't play football, but now have to be up even earlier/home later because of a 30 minute longer bus ride), there are other options.

In fact, with the possible exception of having to build in a couple of locations, the infrastructure already exists.  The private schools could make a conscious decision to become development programs for top flight talent.  It might mean that precious Master Masterson Bartholomew the 3rd doesn't start for Xavier Jewish Christian Orthodox Episcopal,  but he could still get a ring.

I live in Nashville and my daughter went to private school from 3rd grade through her senior year.  There are several private schools (MBA, Father Ryan, BA, Ensworth) in this area that compete at the highest levels, even being ranked nationally sometimes.  She played soccer for a team that is known for having girls come there specifically to play soccer.  They played Baylor out of Chattanooga when Baylor was ranked #3 nationally by ESPN, and ended up being the closest game they had all season.  All 11 starters for Baylor got D1 schollys. 

The point is, schools like those recruit, offer scholarships and provide a path for kids who want something specific related to their sport in trade for a private education.  MBA and BA require all students to play both a fall and spring sport.  They have resources to "decide" to develop players and it doesn't come at taxpayers expense.  My daughters school wasn't very competitive in football, so they went out and hired a 6 figure coach and offered scholarships funded by a wealthy board member who wanted to buy a better team.  Arkansas has some of that,  but would have to build in some areas, maybe even put in dormitories (like Baylor)...  But it would happen over time. 

[Fatty McGee]

If we could pay players that would level the playing field for those schools not in recruiting hotbeds.  Provided scholarship limits stayed in place.

[FineAsSwine]

They had rather play basketball.  Which is fine for our basketball program.  Going to save it from mediocrity at least. 

Don't be mad bro, football team is going to get better. Just beat OM and everything will be fine and the season will be great if we finish strong.

[FineAsSwine]

About time.  Helped by having in state talent not great enough to go to UK and willing to attend Arkansas.

Some real haterade in this post. Smh.

[Atlhogfan1]

Don't be mad bro, football team is going to get better. Just beat OM and everything will be fine and the season will be great if we finish strong.

No reason to be mad.

Some real haterade in this post. Smh.

Not hating.  smh

[FineAsSwine]

No reason to be mad.

Not hating.  smh

Not wanting to see a repeat of football and baseball vs the basketball team like last year.

[Little Lady Back]

Some real haterade in this post. Smh.

You are so right, FineAsSwine!!

[tzthib]

Only three real way for us to improve recruiting :

:)1.  Cheat
2.   Fix Little Rock schools
3.   Substantial consolidation of schools in Arkansas to improve competition


Y'all need to put things in perspective.  Our recruiting is not bad.  It's generally in the 20's.  Unfortunately we play the freaks of college football every week so it appears we don't have the Jimmys and Joes they do. In fact we can't ever recruit with Auburn, Bama, LSU or A and M until we do one of the things I listed above. Notice I didn't put Ole Miss name on there.  We all know why they are recruiting well.

I'm trying to think of a way to say "let's consolidate all the schools so the razorbacks will recruit better football players" that would be palatable to everyone who doesn't frequent this message board.

[Dominicanhog]

How in the name of Zeus' *** do you suggest we "recruit better"?

you just order them up on Amazon. or go to the local Wal-mart... come on man, it's just that easy... every dum a$$ kwows this..

[Wildhog]

smh

[popcornhog]

How Tennessee manages to get much done being so far from Nashville and Memphis is a mystery to me, but at least they are on an interstate.

Interstate 49 runs right through Fayetteville.

[Atlhogfan1]

Not wanting to see a repeat of football and baseball vs the basketball team like last year.

You mean how the coaches are treated differently because of....  

Still not sure how I hated.  Did I say something untrue? 

[popcornhog]

EXACTLY. Our classes are usually top 15-20, out of 125+ fbs schools, yet that is usually only 7th or 8th in the SEC.

BTW, good luck with #3 on your list, gotta make sure every hole in the road has their own school so they can continue to suck up govt money and their jimbob bo jacks can continue to have their cushy govt trough jobs.

Our recruiting classes are generally top 15-20?

[Wildhog]

How Tennessee manages to get much done being so far from Nashville and Memphis is a mystery to me, but at least they are on an interstate.

Knoxville is actually in a great spot for recruits. 

[code red]

How in the name of Zeus' *** do you suggest we "recruit better"?

Stop turning down or not even visiting 4 and 5 stars because of character issues.....would be a start.

[Atlhogfan1]

Knoxville is actually in a great spot for recruits.

Yep. 

Geography and understanding of demographics. 

Easy commute from good recruiting areas in the Carolinas, Va, Ohio, Atlanta, Gulf Coast plus some large in state metro areas.

[code red]

yep. And on that note, did anyone notice how well Alabama's defense blocks when they get a turnover. Arkansas's best O-lineman got pancaked by a Bama DL on the fumble return. The interception return was flat-out humorous with the speed differential because their DL and Arkansas's OL that bothered to chase Fitzpatrick.
It's about the Jimmies and the Joes, and when people understand that, they'll stop this mess about "We need to fire [inside coordinator's name here] and replace him with [wishfully thinking name here].

You are so right Jim....the defensive side has been neglected at the 2nd level.  I love this team....I love these kids...they are good kids but the entire second level was out classed times 2 saturday night.

[12247]

As for recruiting, are we using every second of every time period to go hard at recruiting.  I don't know, just asking.  One area that some schools use to get a very good one from time to time is hand picking a great player from a state that doesn't have a favored college team.  These players are rare and they may not get the attention they deserve.  We need to go looking where ever the recruits lurk.  Having a winning team really helps.  We used to share the players that Texas didn't want with Oklahoma every year and yes A&M and TCU was located then right where they are located now.  They weren't winners then and are now and they play a different scheme than we do so I believe both of those helps.

In any event, what we are doing is not working so we need to try something else.  I would assume we have coaches all over the area every Friday night sitting in the stands at High School games doing their jobs as they should be.  We must get on good players and stay on them as much as is legal.  Then we need to coach them.  We need to have a real second unit that has seen the field from some place other than the sideline.  We need to learn to actually use practice to train.  Half of our starters and near all our seconds and thirds look like they just don't have a clue.  They either don't retain or haven't received, one or the other.  I know its a bit unfair to complain when you are 4-2 but we've only played 3 half decent teams this season and we are 1-2 there.  The other 2 had their way with us.  BAMA could have beaten us 70 to 0 if they had played a true BAMA game instead of the mistake filled, mental breakdown offering they throwed up at us. 

[Arthur pigby sellers.]

I agree that it's hard to consolidate schools if the kids have to make a 30-40 minutes drive to and from school, but I live in Hot Springs and we have 7 high schools within a 20 miles radius. 
      Hot Springs has the occasional college athelete,  but it's more often a tennis or golfer from Lakeside and rarely a football player or basketball player. My kids go to Lakeside. I'm pretty sure Cutter Morning Star ( or is it Fountain Lake) school system is less than 5 miles from Lakeside. That's just a waste of taxpayer money to have schools that close.
       consolidation to fewer larger schools would save the school system a ton of money.  That money could be spent on extracuricular activities. Kids would have more options for AP classes and better facilities in general for sports, band etc. Academic competition would also be improved.  The improved sports competition would actually produce some college atheletes. More money could be spent on coaches. Other sports like swimming could be offered.

[Atlhogfan1]

I agree that it's hard to consolidate schools if the kids have to make a 30-40 minutes drive to and from school, but I live in Hot Springs and we have 7 high schools within a 20 miles radius. 
      Hot Springs has the occasional college athelete,  but it's more often a tennis or golfer from Lakeside and rarely a football player or basketball player. My kids go to Lakeside. I'm pretty sure Cutter Morning Star ( or is it Fountain Lake) school system is less than 5 miles from Lakeside. That's just a waste of taxpayer money to have schools that close.
       consolidation to fewer larger schools would save the school system a ton of money.  That money could be spent on extracuricular activities. Kids would have more options for AP classes and better facilities in general for sports, band etc. Academic competition would also be improved.  The improved sports competition would actually produce some college atheletes. More money could be spent on coaches. Other sports like swimming could be offered.

Would take away too many gubmint jobs.  Can't have that. 

[Ash]

We pay the coaching staff millions of dollars to figure this stuff out. That is the point. They are supposed to know how to get this stuff done. Bottom line is they have got to get better recruits. They are paid well enough to figure it out or hit the road.

[Dominicanhog]

We pay the coaching staff millions of dollars to figure this stuff out. That is the point. They are supposed to know how to get this stuff done. Bottom line is they have got to get better recruits. They are paid well enough to figure it out or hit the road.

David is that you... don't you have enough to do after the Michigan disaster..

[thefisher]

We pay the coaching staff millions of dollars to figure this stuff out. That is the point. They are supposed to know how to get this stuff done. Bottom line is they have got to get better recruits. They are paid well enough to figure it out or hit the road.

What you may fail to understand is that if you land a recruiting class anywhere in the top 20 you have pulled off a small miracle if you are recruiting to Arkansas.  The, "Do it or get fired" attitude you present is just plain stupid.  Some things have limiting factors beyond anyones control.

I have asked this in another thread but will throw it out again to you -

Let's say you have a 5 star linebacker that has a choice to play for multi time national champs Bama .... or to live 20 minutes from the beach where there is no winter and the girls are in bikinis almost year round at Florida State .... or Arkansas where you can see the home of Walmart, Tyson's and eat at the Catfish Hole.

What 18 year old would ever choose Fayetteville over Florida State, Bama, etc.  Very, very few if they have those type options on the table.

What exact and specific angle can you share with that 18 year old to make his decision be Arkansas?

It doesn't matter how much we pay a coach to recruit ... THIS is the fundamental problem. This specific problem is bigger than people. It is an inherent factor of the schools location.  Fayetteville is lovely ... but compared to other options the top athletes have on the table .... not so much.

Figure out the answer to this problem and they will pay YOU multi millions to be a recruiter.  As of today NO ONE - not CBB, CPB, Nutt, ..... NO ONE has been able to get an answer to this other than spreading $$$$ under the table.

I will hang up and listen for your response on how to overcome the actual geographic limitations of the campus as opposed to other schools.

If you DO have an answer that is feasible then we can start on the challenge of recruiting in a state that only produces only  about 1/5th the division 1 talent in a year that other SINGLE CITIES do in other recruiting grounds.

[Wildhog]

It's not a coincidence that our RB recruiting picked up when we hired a proven recruiter in Reggie Mitchell.

[elksnort]

Expand the pool.  Take chances on more risks.  When the police reports become more frequent we know we are getting better. 

I don't think Bielema will go this route and I can respect it.  I'd rather not see the UA in a negative light.  But many don't care and I see their point of view too.  It limits an already limited pool.  It is his career at risk. 

Convince the backwards state of Arkansas to get rid of some superintendents and school boards and consolidate creating some bigger and maybe better football programs.  Ark has a ridiculous amount of small schools.  At least Pulaski County is going to save our basketball program.  What a waste as far as football. 

Very good point regarding the school districts. There ought to be only as many school districts as there are counties. I think the number is 75.
And frankly, my some mamas cadillacs.

[elksnort]

The three best performers on Arkansas's defense Saturday night (Coley, Pulley and Ledbetter) are from Florida. I'm finally convinced that Arkansas hasn't hit Florida enough.

I've been saying this for years. Think about Collins and Kirkland, both South Florida guys.

Don't ever not try to recruit Florida.

[ricepig]

It's not a coincidence that our RB recruiting picked up when we hired a proven recruiter in Reggie Mitchell.

How many RB's has he signed at Arkansas?

[Wildhog]

I've been saying this for years. Think about Collins and Kirkland, both South Florida guys.

Don't ever not try to recruit Florida.

Which is why it would be huge to get Partridge back on staff.

[Little Lady Back]

Which is why it would be huge to get Partridge back on staff.

Would love to have him back.

[Wildhog]

How many RB's has he signed at Arkansas?

So provided we sign Hayden/Williams, you'll agree with me?

[ricepig]

Which is why it would be huge to get Partridge back on staff.

Yeah, it wouldn't break my heart if FAU let him go and he came back to us.

[ricepig]

So provided we sign Hayden/Williams, you'll agree with me?

Yep, but who gets credit for Whaley and Hammond's? I agree that our previous RB coaches were lacking in recruiting.

[Dominicanhog]

Yeah, it wouldn't break my heart if FAU let him go and he came back to us.

The "FAU letting him go"  is a possibility

[oldhog63]

yep. And on that note, did anyone notice how well Alabama's defense blocks when they get a turnover. Arkansas's best O-lineman got pancaked by a Bama DL on the fumble return. The interception return was flat-out humorous with the speed differential because their DL and Arkansas's OL that bothered to chase Fitzpatrick.
It's about the Jimmies and the Joes, and when people understand that, they'll stop this mess about "We need to fire [inside coordinator's name here] and replace him with [wishfully thinking name here]."

Rarely (if ever) will Arkansas have the same level of recruiting as Alabama. So easy to say "just get better players", but not gonna happen. Arkansas has to do something different than just "recruit better". Arkansas has to develop players, which takes time and consistency. And, playing base prevent defense is not going to cut it in this league. Our players have to be put in a position to succeed. It is happening on the offense. Not happening on the defense.

[hogsanity]

What you may fail to understand is that if you land a recruiting class anywhere in the top 20 you have pulled off a small miracle if you are recruiting to Arkansas.  The, "Do it or get fired" attitude you present is just plain stupid.  Some things have limiting factors beyond anyones control.

I have asked this in another thread but will throw it out again to you -

Let's say you have a 5 star linebacker that has a choice to play for multi time national champs Bama .... or to live 20 minutes from the beach where there is no winter and the girls are in bikinis almost year round at Florida State .... or Arkansas where you can see the home of Walmart, Tyson's and eat at the Catfish Hole.

What 18 year old would ever choose Fayetteville over Florida State, Bama, etc.  Very, very few if they have those type options on the table.

What exact and specific angle can you share with that 18 year old to make his decision be Arkansas?

It doesn't matter how much we pay a coach to recruit ... THIS is the fundamental problem. This specific problem is bigger than people. It is an inherent factor of the schools location.  Fayetteville is lovely ... but compared to other options the top athletes have on the table .... not so much.

Figure out the answer to this problem and they will pay YOU multi millions to be a recruiter.  As of today NO ONE - not CBB, CPB, Nutt, ..... NO ONE has been able to get an answer to this other than spreading $$$$ under the table.

I will hang up and listen for your response on how to overcome the actual geographic limitations of the campus as opposed to other schools.

If you DO have an answer that is feasible then we can start on the challenge of recruiting in a state that only produces only  about 1/5th the division 1 talent in a year that other SINGLE CITIES do in other recruiting grounds.

2 hours and no answer, shocking.

[Tweeter]

PAY FOR PLAYERS!!!!

[Swinesong1]

2 hours and no answer, shocking.

So why is the staff being highly compensated?

[jlhogfan]

2 hours and no answer, shocking.

You were expecting a solution?

[hogsanity]

You were expecting a solution?

I thought someone would make a weak attempt at it.

[jlhogfan]

I thought someone would make a weak attempt at it.

Well dang, I can do that, and it's going to be pretty weak.  Give more resources to the recruiters and if the cupboard is bare in Arkansas for recruits, go to a different store; that's what I do when I can't find what I am looking for at Wal-Mart.  Is that weak enough?

[Sapperhog]

yep. And on that note, did anyone notice how well Alabama's defense blocks when they get a turnover. Arkansas's best O-lineman got pancaked by a Bama DL on the fumble return. The interception return was flat-out humorous with the speed differential because their DL and Arkansas's OL that bothered to chase Fitzpatrick.
It's about the Jimmies and the Joes, and when people understand that, they'll stop this mess about "We need to fire [inside coordinator's name here] and replace him with [wishfully thinking name here]."

Absolutely. When you have mismatches at nearly every position on the field and get pushed around like rag dolls for the majority of a 60 minute game, it validates the jimmy and joe argument. We'll lose consistently to the top tier teams because we have players like Liddell starting at safety for multiple seasons, and converted DL Froholdt being our "absolute best option at LG". Sure we will catch some good teams once in a while when our players and game plan work to perfection, but in the end it's not rocket science...Players, not plays are what win.

[NaturalStateReb]

Can't do that if we fire coaches that build those long term relationships.

True, but the turnover is just part of the problem, IMO.

If you're in a place that's not necessarily a talent hotbed, it would make sense to make more offers.  In 2015, here's the number of offers SEC teams made:

Mississippi State:  274
Ole Miss:  229
Alabama:  216
Arkansas:  194
Auburn:  180
LSU:  161
Texas A&M:  118

It's pretty clear the recruiting positions of the top two and the bottom two:  Mississippi State and Ole Miss figure they're going to get told "no" a lot, so they give lots of recruits the opportunity to turn them down.  However, making more offers and making them earlier has worked for both; both schools know they don't stand much of a chance if they get in line late.  They've got to offer often and early.  Most say no, but a few top recruits say yes.

LSU and A&M are in recruiting hotbeds, so they obviously feel like they don't have to issue lots of offers in order to come out ok.  Fine as far as it goes, but it puts more pressure on them to have those offers work out, both as signees and actual contributors.

The one that sticks out to me is Alabama.  They've got everything going for them, and you'd think they could be more selective in their offers; however, it's clear that they're offering fairly often.  Putting recruit quality aside, Bama's offering about 11-12% more often than Arkansas, even though Bama can be much choosier.

Auburn I can't figure.  You'd think their offer strategy would look much like Bama's, but they're offering only about 80% of the kids that Bama offers.  Seems like a curious strategy to me.

2016's numbers pretty much hold these trends.  IMO, Arkansas should adopt a strategy much like the Mississippi schools:  get in early and often.  If you wait too long to find out if they're uncommon, you'll find an uncommon number of other schools already in line ahead of you.  It's the Publisher's Clearing House Theory of Recruiting:  you can't win if you don't enter, so enter as much as you can.

[elksnort]

People keep talking about development and I understand with this an agree, but you really can't develope SPEED.

You might be able to improve a players speed minutely, but not much.

[ChicoHog]

LOL, if we could just get Conway and Fayetteville to swap cities and facilities  that might help.  The location is just crap.  How Tennessee manages to get much done being so far from Nashville and Memphis is a mystery to me, but at least they are on an interstate.  LSU is kind of in the middle.  OU is kind of in the middle.  When Lou Holtz said Fayetteville wasn't the end of the world but you could see it from there he wasn't all wrong.  Fayetteville is a nice place, but what you can see from there is a crappy piece of Kansas, a crappy piece of Missouri and an Indian casino across the Oklahoma line.  No matter how you cut it not a good location for a major university.  But it is what it is.

You may be right but it's still by far the most attractive area of the state IMO.  Although now it's getting too crowded!

[ChicoHog]

We cant. We have far too many strikes against us before we even get started.
1. We have the smallest in-state recruiting base in the SEC (and its not even close)
2. We are surrounded by media darling programs. Oklahoma to the northwest, Texas/a&m to the west, LSU to the south, Ole miss to the east.
3. The further you are away from a recruits family, the less likely you are to get them to even visit. This obviously doesn't apply to every prospect, but it is definitely a factor. It is also affected by #2, because not only do we have to get kids to go out of their way to get here, they have to go past auburn, bama, and ole miss to get here (or texas, tcu a&m from west)
4. This one really hurts me to admit, but few if any kids outside of the state of Arkansas grow up wanting to be an Arkansas razorback. They dream of playing for bama, USC, and Ohio State. Arkansas is just where they land when things don't work out as planned (see philon)

Well stated.  #4 is very true. 

[ChicoHog]

Stop turning down or not even visiting 4 and 5 stars because of character issues.....would be a start.

Then many more will fail and you will get half the guys you recruited gone before their eligibility is up.  Attrition will be huge. Like the 2010 class I believe that had maybe  9 or 10 guys contribute instead of 15 or 20. 

[Iwastherein1969]

It has slowed them down a little bit this recruiting season. They're having more of a Bielema-type year with their list of commitments. May have to take a shot at some projects.

there's no way in hell, all things being equal that Ole Miss and Miss St should out recruit Arkansas....we have far superior facilities....kids in the 21st century aren't afraid to travel to go to college and play ball...it's not like it used to be when baby boy wanted to stay close to maw and paw in Podunk, Georgia...I think we should go ahead and do what everyone else does, in particular, Auburn, pay the top players to come here...that's how sick I am of 24 years of not winning the SEC...if you had told be back in 1992 that we wouldn't have won the SEC by 2016, I would have laughed until I cried in total disbelief

[cosmodrum]

there's no way in hell, all things being equal that Ole Miss and Miss St should out recruit Arkansas....we have far superior facilities....kids in the 21st century aren't afraid to travel to go to college and play ball...it's not like it used to be when baby boy wanted to stay close to maw and paw in Podunk, Georgia...I think we should go ahead and do what everyone else does, in particular, Auburn, pay the top players to come here...that's how sick I am of 24 years of not winning the SEC...if you had told be back in 1992 that we wouldn't have won the SEC by 2016, I would have laughed until I cried in total disbelief

Ole Miss and Cowbell St are in a much better location, and in these kids' lifetimes, have been about as successful as us. Also, many of these kids are from poor families, so yes, staying closer to home is a factor because mama can come watch them play.

If the school was in the delta region of Arkansas, we would recruit better. It's closer to home, and the surroundings are familiar. Fayetteville is a foreign country to a bunch of the big time recruits.