A lot of y'all say we need to recruit better

[thefisher]

Lamar Jackson is dynamic. Jalen Hurts is dynamic. Watson at Clemson is dynamic. They change the game in a way so that you ALWAYS have a chance to win.


More Dynamic players...

Myles Garrett, Treyveon Williams at A&M, Mikah Fitzpatrick at Alabama. JT Barrett at Ohio State.

We have 0 players of this caliber.

Kind of like having a basketball team full of role players. That's our football team.  Good players that occasionally do great things but none change the game in a way that gives you a chance every week.

Calling absolute and total BS on that. You sir are a CBP licking troll. As case in point -


For ease of comparison lets make a little chart with, in your words "dynamic" players verses the merely, in your own words "merely good" A Allen -

NAME                    TD'S          TOTAL YRDS            YRDS GAM                COM%                 INT

A. Allen                      15                1632                       272                       63.6                      5
J. Hurts                        9                1242                       207                       63.8                      2
D. Watson                   18               1568                       261                        60.5                      7
J.T. Barrett                  15                 981                       196                        64.2                      3
L. Jackson                   14               1625                       325                        59.1                      4

So .... against your hand picked from across the nation "dynamic" players verses the, in your words "merely good" Austin Allen we see the following results.

A. Allen is tied for 2nd amongst them in touchdowns. The only person actually ahead in TD's is Watson. However, Watson also has two more interceptions thrown for those merely 3 more touchdowns.

A. Allen has more total passing yards than any of your hand picked "dynamic players".

A. Allen is averaging more passing yards per game than all but one of your hand picked "dynamic players".

A. Allen is a mere 6/10ths of 1 percent from having the highest completion percentage. All QB's scored well there.

A. Allen had 5 pics.  The average of your hand picked "dynamic players" is 4.

All things in consideration A. Allen is on par with the absolute best of all college qb's right now.  You hand picked these other players and he is clearly the more efficient and productive overall of the group.  There appears to be little doubt he is the most complete player of that bunch.

Imagine how much more over the top he would have performed if Arkansas was a state that had recruiting bases to draw from that those schools you hand picked "dynamic players" came from!

In fact you inadvertently made my point again for me.  Do you know where the players you listed came from?

4 from Texas
1 from Florida
1 from Georgia
1 from New Jersey

Again, Texas, Florida, Georgia. The rich recruiting grounds of the SEC. 

Ironically New Jersey turns out a good number of top level football players each year as well. For example, last year New Jersey produce 8 recruits rated at 4-5 stars and 59 rated at 3-5 stars.  That as compared to the state of Arkansas having produced 3 recruits rated 4-5 stars and 25 recruits rated 3-5 stars.

DID YOU GET THAT!  NEW JERSEY PRODUCES WELL OVER DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF 3-5 STAR TALENT AND ALMOST TRIPLE THE NUMBER OF ELITE UPPER LEVEL FOOTBALL TALENT A YEAR AS ARKANSAS DOES!

Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Wisconsin have all done well here in recent years.
We can be so absolutely delusional as a fan base sometimes.

You say to , "get better players".  Well ... please share exactly and specifically how you suggest that the Hogs do that.  If the state isn't producing very many of them (there are a few ... Thank God that the Allen brothers chose to stay and play at home!). How will you convince guys from other states to come to Arkansas when they have offers to play for Ohio State or Bama where they have a very real chance of playing for multiple National Championships in their career. Tell us how you would get an 18 year old young man to say no to Florida State where they also have a shot plus no winters and girls in bikinis almost year round so he can come to Fayetteville.

What exactly and specifically is your reason to give an 18 year and and his family to come to Fayetteville?  The trees are pretty in the fall ..... You have over 1,000 Walmarts within an hours drive ..... if you like chicken then we are the home of Tyson's ... come on man... why would an 18 year old with all those other D1 offers on the table say they would come to Fayetteville?

The "elites" you listed are no better than, and clearly an argument can be made that they are not as effective as, Austin Allen.  The only reason the Allens were here is their dad, community, and life time Razorbacks.  If that were not true they would be starting at Alabama or Ohio State.   

So come on man .... I'm 18, got offers to play anywhere in the country I want. You have a 30 minute window to pique my interest enough to even keep my attention. Otherwise I'm off to meet with Saban and Urban Meyer.  You have one shot to show me why I should come to Fayetteville instead of going where I know we will be playing for championships in my career or where beautiful girls abound and I can have year round summer and the beach. Here's your shot ...go.

[HF#1]

And if you give AA the OL of the three QB's that you mention AA would suddenly be as dynamic. Watson by himself, Jackson, by himself and Hirts by himself would look worse than AA with Arkansas' line, Watson is the only one you mention that is so good of an actual Passer, that he might still be just as dynamic.

For argument sakes, I'll give you Austin Allen on the offensive side.  Give me one on the defensive side.

[HF#1]

Calling absolute and total BS on that. You sir are a CBP licking troll. As case in point -


For ease of comparison lets make a little chart with you "dynamic" players verses the merely "good" A Allen -

NAME                    TD'S          TOTAL YRDS            YRDS GAM                COM%                 INT

A. Allen                      15                1632                       272                       63.6                      5
J. Hurts                        9                1242                       207                       63.8                      2
D. Watson                   18               1568                       261                        60.5                      7
J.T. Barrett                  15                 981                       196                        64.2                      3
L. Jackson                   14               1625                       325                        59.1                      4

So .... against your hand picked from across the nation "dynamic" players verses the, in your mores "merely good" Austin Allen we see the following results.

A. Allen is tied for 2nd amongst them in touchdowns. The only person actually ahead in TD's is Watson. However, Watson also has two more interceptions thrown for those merely 3 more touchdowns.

A. Allen has more total passing yards than any of your hand picked "dynamic players".

A. Allen is averaging more passing yards per game than all but one of your hand picked "dynamic players".

A. Allen is a mere 6/10ths of 1 percent from having the highest completion percentage. All QB's scored well there.

A. Allen had 5 pics.  The average of your hand picked "dynamic players" is 4.

All things in consideration A. Allen is on par with the absolute best of all college qb's right now.  You hand picked these other players and he is clearly the more efficient and productive overall of the group.  There appears to be little doubt he is the most complete player of that bunch.

Imagine how much more over the tope he would have performed in Arkansas was a state that had recruiting bases to draw from that those school you hand picked "dynamic players" came from!

In fact you inadvertently made my point again for me.  Do you know where the players you listed came from?

4 from Texas
1 from Florida
1 from Georgia
1 from New Jersey

Again, Texas, Florida, Georgia. The rich recruiting grounds of the SEC. 

Ironically New Jersey turns out a good number of top level football players each year as well. For example, last year New Jersey produce 8 recruits rated at 4-5 stars and 59 rated at 3-5 stars.  That as compared to the state of Arkansas having produced 3 recruits rated 4-5 stars and 25 recruits rated 3-5 stars.

DID YOU GET THAT!  NEW JERSEY PRODUCES WELL OVER DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF 3-5 STAR TALENT AND ALMOST TRIPLE THE NUMBER OF ELITE UPPER LEVEL FOOTBALL TALENT A YEAR!

Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Wisconsin have all done well here in recent years.
We can be so absolutely delusional as a fan base sometimes.

You say to , "get better players".  Well ... please share exactly and specifically how you suggest that the Hogs do that.  If the state isn't producing very many of them (there are a few ... That God that the Allen brothers chose to stay and play at home!). How will you convince guys from other states to come to Arkansas when they have offers to play for Ohio State or Bama where they have a very real chance of playing for multiple National Championships in their career. Tell us how you would get an 18 year old young man to say no to Florida State where they also have a shot plus no winters and girls in bikinis almost year round so he can come to Fayetteville.

What exactly and specifically is your reason to give an 18 year and and his family to come to Fayetteville?  The trees are pretty in the fall ..... You have over 1,000 Walmarts within an hours drive ..... if you like chicken then we are the home of Tyson's ... come on man... why would an 18 year old with all those other D1 offers on the table say they would come to Fayetteville?

The "elites" you listed are no better than, and clearly an argument can be made that they are not as effective as, Austin Allen.  The only reason the Allens were here is their dad, community, and life time Razorbacks.  If that were not true they would be starting at Alabama or Ohio State.   

So come on man .... I'm 18, got offers to play anywhere in the country I want. You have a 30 minute window to pique my interest enough to even keep my attention. Otherwise I'm off to meet with Saban and Urban Meyer.  You have one shot to show me why I should come to Fayetteville instead of going where I know we will be playing for championships in my career or where beautiful girls abound and I can have year round summer and the beach. Here's your shot ...go.

Take any of the players I mentioned off their teams and add them to Arkansas' roster and tell me you don't instantly feel better about our chances....

[PorkSoda]

Take any of the players I mentioned off their teams and add them to Arkansas' roster and tell me you don't instantly feel better about our chances....

um no.  AA is not the problem with this team.

the point is that without a supporting cast, our potential is limited.

[ricepig]

In talking with the Ole Miss alumni I know, I've come the the conclusion that they and the extended booster network are in fact not losing any sleep over 'what the black bears did'. 

Uh, what's that, lose to us two consecutive years with those classes?

[Wildhog]

Uh, what's that, lose to us two consecutive years with those classes?

And we'd trade seasons with them both years.

[ricepig]

And we'd trade seasons with them both years.

Nah, Natty or bust........

[The Hawg Marshal]

In talking with the Ole Miss alumni I know, I've come the the conclusion that they and the extended booster network are in fact not losing any sleep over 'what the black bears did'. 

Never was my contention that they are worried about it. They will probably get away with it. The question is whether we want to stoop to their level. Some have no problem with it and others are appalled at the thought. I personally would rather see us do it the right way. Can we? It remains to be seen.

[PorkSoda]

Never was my contention that they are worried about it. They will probably get away with it. The question is whether we want to stoop to their level. Some have no problem with it and others are appalled at the thought. I personally would rather see us do it the right way. Can we? It remains to be seen.

I'd rather do it the right way and continue to struggle. 

struggle is part of life, everyone should be used to it by now. 

but when you give up on doing things the right way, you set yourself up for failure.

look at OM, how many championships have they won by cheating?

they will be looking like USCw in a few years.  a shell of their former selves.

mean while we will have built a solid foundation with guys that aren't afraid to work hard, and aren't detered by adversity.   when all these castles of sand come crashing down around us, we will be in position to advance.

[Piggfoot]

Jim Mooty once told me while visiting Jimmy Johnson when he was coaching at Miami how he got all of his good players to come to Miami. He said Jimmy told him, "Look out that window, and see that sunshine and all those long haired, long legged girls in short shorts. With that advantage, I don't have to work too hard to get boys to come here."

[thefisher]

Take any of the players I mentioned off their teams and add them to Arkansas' roster and tell me you don't instantly feel better about our chances....

No. Not no how, not no way.  AA has proven to be a statistically better quarterback and if he had as many 4-5 star teammates would be performing even better.

Now ... you have dodged long enough. Put up or shut up. I gave detailed answers to you and you totally dodged the question.

One more time I will post it .... time to bring something besides your opinion to the table.

I asked -

You say to , "get better players".  Well ... please share exactly and specifically how you suggest that the Hogs do that.  It is clearly established that Arkansas isn't producing many of them.  So .... how will you convince guys from other states to come to Arkansas. If a guy has offers to play for Ohio State or Bama where they have a very real chance of playing for multiple National Championships in their career how do you get him to commit to the Hogs? Tell us how you would get an 18 year old young man to say no to Florida State where they also have a shot plus no winters and girls in bikinis almost year round so he can come to Fayetteville.

What exactly and specifically is your reason to give an 18 year and and his family to come to Fayetteville? 

The trees are pretty in the fall ..... You have over 1,000 Walmarts within an hours drive ..... if you like chicken then we are the home of Tyson's ... come on man... why would an 18 year old with all those other D1 offers on the table say they would come to Fayetteville?   

So come on man .... I'm 18, got offers to play anywhere in the country I want. You have a 30 minute window to pique my interest enough to even keep my attention. Otherwise I'm off to meet with Saban and Urban Meyer.  You have one shot to show me why I should come to Fayetteville instead of going where I know we will be playing for championships in my career or where beautiful girls abound and I can have year round summer and the beach.

Here's your shot ... go.

[wildhogman]

No. Not no how, not no way.  AA has proven to be a statistically better quarterback and if he had as many 4-5 star teammates would be performing even better.

Now ... you have dodged long enough. Put up or shut up. I gave detailed answers to you and you totally dodged the question.

One more time I will post it .... time to bring something besides your opinion to the table.

I asked -

You say to , "get better players".  Well ... please share exactly and specifically how you suggest that the Hogs do that.  It is clearly established that Arkansas isn't producing many of them.  So .... how will you convince guys from other states to come to Arkansas. If a guy has offers to play for Ohio State or Bama where they have a very real chance of playing for multiple National Championships in their career how do you get him to commit to the Hogs? Tell us how you would get an 18 year old young man to say no to Florida State where they also have a shot plus no winters and girls in bikinis almost year round so he can come to Fayetteville.

What exactly and specifically is your reason to give an 18 year and and his family to come to Fayetteville? 

The trees are pretty in the fall ..... You have over 1,000 Walmarts within an hours drive ..... if you like chicken then we are the home of Tyson's ... come on man... why would an 18 year old with all those other D1 offers on the table say they would come to Fayetteville?   

So come on man .... I'm 18, got offers to play anywhere in the country I want. You have a 30 minute window to pique my interest enough to even keep my attention. Otherwise I'm off to meet with Saban and Urban Meyer.  You have one shot to show me why I should come to Fayetteville instead of going where I know we will be playing for championships in my career or where beautiful girls abound and I can have year round summer and the beach.

Here's your shot ... go.

Crickets, Yeah I don't think crickets are gonna convince an 18 year old to come

[coachingsearchbro]

One of the key pitches for coming to a Bielema-coached team is that he prepares the guys in the trenches for the NFL. That makes our underperformance on both sides the line this year much more devastating- we are not showing recruits that we can develop them into NFL prospects on the o-line or d-line.

[ricepig]

One of the key pitches for coming to a Bielema-coached team is that he prepares the guys in the trenches for the NFL. That makes our underperformance on both sides the line this year much more devastating- we are not showing recruits that we can develop them into NFL prospects on the o-line or d-line.

You don't think Wise, Skipper, or Ragnow will be drafted?

[Torqued pork]

There have been a slew of championships won by storied programs that were followed by investigations and sanctions. There have been more that only added the ultimate trophy and more glory to their tradition.

Arkansas just doesn't want it bad enough. Give us our moral victories and mythical integrity  championships and keep chanting S-E-C in the bowls and playoffs.

[JoeyCapital]

Calling absolute and total BS on that. You sir are a CBP licking troll. As case in point -


For ease of comparison lets make a little chart with, in your words "dynamic" players verses the merely, in your own words "merely good" A Allen -

NAME                    TD'S          TOTAL YRDS            YRDS GAM                COM%                 INT

A. Allen                      15                1632                       272                       63.6                      5
J. Hurts                        9                1242                       207                       63.8                      2
D. Watson                   18               1568                       261                        60.5                      7
J.T. Barrett                  15                 981                       196                        64.2                      3
L. Jackson                   14               1625                       325                        59.1                      4

So .... against your hand picked from across the nation "dynamic" players verses the, in your words "merely good" Austin Allen we see the following results.

A. Allen is tied for 2nd amongst them in touchdowns. The only person actually ahead in TD's is Watson. However, Watson also has two more interceptions thrown for those merely 3 more touchdowns.

A. Allen has more total passing yards than any of your hand picked "dynamic players".

A. Allen is averaging more passing yards per game than all but one of your hand picked "dynamic players".

A. Allen is a mere 6/10ths of 1 percent from having the highest completion percentage. All QB's scored well there.

A. Allen had 5 pics.  The average of your hand picked "dynamic players" is 4.

All things in consideration A. Allen is on par with the absolute best of all college qb's right now.  You hand picked these other players and he is clearly the more efficient and productive overall of the group.  There appears to be little doubt he is the most complete player of that bunch.

Imagine how much more over the top he would have performed if Arkansas was a state that had recruiting bases to draw from that those schools you hand picked "dynamic players" came from!

In fact you inadvertently made my point again for me.  Do you know where the players you listed came from?

4 from Texas
1 from Florida
1 from Georgia
1 from New Jersey

Again, Texas, Florida, Georgia. The rich recruiting grounds of the SEC. 

Ironically New Jersey turns out a good number of top level football players each year as well. For example, last year New Jersey produce 8 recruits rated at 4-5 stars and 59 rated at 3-5 stars.  That as compared to the state of Arkansas having produced 3 recruits rated 4-5 stars and 25 recruits rated 3-5 stars.

DID YOU GET THAT!  NEW JERSEY PRODUCES WELL OVER DOUBLE THE AMOUNT OF 3-5 STAR TALENT AND ALMOST TRIPLE THE NUMBER OF ELITE UPPER LEVEL FOOTBALL TALENT A YEAR AS ARKANSAS DOES!

Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, and Wisconsin have all done well here in recent years.
We can be so absolutely delusional as a fan base sometimes.

You say to , "get better players".  Well ... please share exactly and specifically how you suggest that the Hogs do that.  If the state isn't producing very many of them (there are a few ... That God that the Allen brothers chose to stay and play at home!). How will you convince guys from other states to come to Arkansas when they have offers to play for Ohio State or Bama where they have a very real chance of playing for multiple National Championships in their career. Tell us how you would get an 18 year old young man to say no to Florida State where they also have a shot plus no winters and girls in bikinis almost year round so he can come to Fayetteville.

What exactly and specifically is your reason to give an 18 year and and his family to come to Fayetteville?  The trees are pretty in the fall ..... You have over 1,000 Walmarts within an hours drive ..... if you like chicken then we are the home of Tyson's ... come on man... why would an 18 year old with all those other D1 offers on the table say they would come to Fayetteville?

The "elites" you listed are no better than, and clearly an argument can be made that they are not as effective as, Austin Allen.  The only reason the Allens were here is their dad, community, and life time Razorbacks.  If that were not true they would be starting at Alabama or Ohio State.   

So come on man .... I'm 18, got offers to play anywhere in the country I want. You have a 30 minute window to pique my interest enough to even keep my attention. Otherwise I'm off to meet with Saban and Urban Meyer.  You have one shot to show me why I should come to Fayetteville instead of going where I know we will be playing for championships in my career or where beautiful girls abound and I can have year round summer and the beach. Here's your shot ...go.

You're my new favorite poster.

[HiggiePiggy]

so what all this comes down to is Broyles was right when he said arkansas was 7-8th in the SEC in potential.

No he has been proven false on that potential we have seen our program in the top 3 many times in the sec.  now in recruiting he is correct. Our top potential in recruiting is maybe 7th or 8th until proven wrong.

[MojaveJoe]

I wish we'd stop with all the straw man arguments - no one is asking to recruit consistently in the top 5 or even the top 10. But I bet BB could do a lot with a few 10-15 classes and maybe one or two in the lower 20's.

There seems to be quite a drop off from 25-35

[Hoggish1]

come in with a sack of money like everyone else

LMAO!

[Medic821]

better fans

[PorkSoda]

No he has been proven false on that potential we have seen our program in the top 3 many times in the sec.  now in recruiting he is correct. Our top potential in recruiting is maybe 7th or 8th until proven wrong.

facts say otherwise.  every once in a while we exceed expectations but the reality is, and history proves it, we are a middle or the road SEC team.

[HiggiePiggy]

facts say otherwise.  every once in a while we exceed expectations but the reality is, and history proves it, we are a middle or the road SEC team.

As for overall in the sec yes we are about middle of the pack, but the potential has shown that we can finish in the top 5 with the right coach. So the potential is possible to be a top 5 sec team. Recruiting has been middle of the pack or worse for pretty much the entire time Arkansas has been in the SEC.

[ShadowHawg]

As for overall in the sec yes we are about middle of the pack, but the potential has shown that we can finish in the top 5 with the right coach. So the potential is possible to be a top 5 sec team. Recruiting has been middle of the pack or worse for pretty much the entire time Arkansas has been in the SEC.

We are recruiting exactly where have for the last two decades. It won't ever change either.

The system the coach runs is far more important than their ability to get us from the 25th best recruiting class to the 23rd best.

[Piggfoot]

Unless we find the best recruiter and the best coach in America who happens to love the Razorbacks and considers  being the Razorback's  coach as his dream job, we will always be behind Alabama, Auburn, Georgia, Florida, LSU, Tenn, and now I'm afraid A&M in over all wins as time moves forward. That is unless the crazy Razorback fans want him fired before he has a Broyles tenure.
The above teams may have a down period for a few years like Tenn but they will bounce back. Their supporters will do what it takes to keep them in the top level.

[HiggiePiggy]

We are recruiting exactly where have for the last two decades. It won't ever change either.

The system the coach runs is far more important than their ability to get us from the 25th best recruiting class to the 23rd best.

I know that. It's why the potential of the team is always going to be higher than the recruiting. 

Our recruiting would only change if we were consistently getting 9+ wins every year.

[The Hawg Marshal]

Jim Mooty once told me while visiting Jimmy Johnson when he was coaching at Miami how he got all of his good players to come to Miami. He said Jimmy told him, "Look out that window, and see that sunshine and all those long haired, long legged girls in short shorts. With that advantage, I don't have to work too hard to get boys to come here."

Having a plethora of athletes in the south Florida area was a bigger factor than the girls in my opinion.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

Having a plethora of athletes in the south Florida area was a bigger factor than the girls in my opinion.

He recruited more than south Florida.

[roothawg]

until our high schools get real serious about football we are stuck with few kids to choose from.

[wildhogman]

until our high schools get real serious about football we are stuck with few kids to choose from.

EXACTLY. You people asking "what can be done about it". Get of your tails and off the computer and message boards and get involved with local schools. Put pressure on to elevate the level of play in our high school sports, Al of them. And before someone asks, no I don't no how. But I am willing to bet there are people in this state that do have an idea.  Time to get Arkansans involved in Arkansas again

[jcharkansas]

I understand we are at a geographic disadvantage, but just curious how did Nebraska do so well back in the day? I've never  been there but from what I hear it's pretty much bare, not much there, and they were getting recruits. I think what we need to start with is hiring a serious recruiting guy. Someone like Ed O that can just flat out recruit, have we ever had anyone that was just a top notch ace recruiter?

If we can start winning consistently they will come much easier, we just need a jump start of sorts

[ricepig]

I understand we are at a geographic disadvantage, but just curious how did Nebraska do so well back in the day? I've never  been there but from what I hear it's pretty much bare, not much there, and they were getting recruits. I think what we need to start with is hiring a serious recruiting guy. Someone like Ed O that can just flat out recruit, have we ever had anyone that was just a top notch ace recruiter?

If we can start winning consistently they will come much easier, we just need a jump start of sorts

Well, there wasn't a limit on scholarships, and they also had a "walk-on" program where all they guys had a scholarship from some county in Nebraska, lol. They developed a lot of 4th and 5th year linemen, plus they started winning and got some skill guys.

[Deep Shoat]

Nebraska had an army of supporters committed to building a winning program.

They made Nebraska attractive to recruits who had offers from major programs all across the country.

Just in case anyone doesn't understand, Surfing and his friends are saying we need to cheat.  A lot. 

All other argument in this thread is moot, and you are wasting pixels trying to convince a bunch of low character people that cheating is bad.

[Deep Shoat]

I'm watching Vern and Gary slobber themselves praising it on CBS right now.

Did you hang around long enough to see it lose to Arkansas and CBB 3 years running? 

Or are you to busy drowning your sorrows after an Arkansas win?