Conference Championship "Deregulation"--Conference Welfare for Horns, Sooners, Noles

[NaturalStateReb]

The Big XII, of course, is going to petition the NCAA to permit them to have a conference championship game with only 10 teams.  It turns out, however, that the Big XII isn't alone in its quest to breach the 12-team, divisional-format rule--the ACC is going to ask for the same thing.

"Why?" you might ask.  After all, the ACC already has 12 teams, two divisions, and a conference championship game.  The reason is that the ACC wants to do away with its divisional format and send the top two teams to the championship.  The strategy has to do mainly with the embarrassingly bad ACC Coastal division.  The argument goes that in 2012 and 2013, FSU and Clemson were clearly the best teams, but the Noles were matched up against Georgia Tech and Duke. 

So why not let the two best teams face off?  Well, because it's pointless.  In the 2012 and 2013 situations, FSU and Clemson did play it off, with the Noles winning both games by a margin of 100-51.  Not exactly compelling, championship football there.  If the two best teams are in the same division, they'll play each other anyway; if they're not, they'll meet in the conference championship game.  The ACC's logic amounts to nothing, at least on the field.

These proposals are going to be presented as "deregulation," but what the Big XII and the ACC are really asking for is conference welfare.  This doesn't have anything to do with crowning a champion or creating a compelling matchup--it's about increasing the chances of a representative from the weakling conferences of power football making the playoffs.  The ACC championship game might not produce a significant power matchup, making it harder on Florida State (let's be real, no one else is a threat to make it in from the ACC) to make a case at the end.  Since the Noles continued to drop despite being undefeated, it's spooked the ACC into making this appeal.

The Big XII--and by that, we're really just saying Texas and Oklahoma--wants its cake and to eat it too, as always.  They want to have 10 teams, a conference championship game, and a better shot at not being left at the kids table in the postseason.  Why, however, should the other leagues humor the Big XII?  The SEC, the B1G, and the Pac-12 all made moves to 12 teams predicated on following this rule and creating a conference championship game.  If the rule hadn't been in place, they might not have made some of the moves that they made.  Would the Pac-12 have taken Colorado and Utah?  Would the SEC, pioneers of the concept, taken Arkansas and South Carolina if they could have had a championship game without them?  Maybe, but there's nothing special about the Big XII.  Texas and Oklahoma have the conference they demanded; it's too bad if they made poor decisions, and it's not the SEC's--or the B1G's, Pac-12's, or NCAA's--obligation to help them escape the consequences.

These moves aren't about making the sport better, or providing compelling matchups, or even improving the conferences.  It's really about helping Texas, Oklahoma, and Florida State while continuing to prop up the ACC and the Big XII, one of which is chronically weak and the other chronically dysfunctional.  The SEC, B1G, Pac-12, and the NCAA should say no, not merely for their own sakes, but also for the sake of college football.

[Fatty McGee]

Conference championship games in general aren't about making the sport better, providing compelling matchups or even improving (in terms of athletic or academic performance) the conferences.  So why should this be any different?

[NaturalStateReb]

Conference championship games in general aren't about making the sport better, providing compelling matchups or even improving (in terms of athletic or academic performance) the conferences.  So why should this be any different?

No one can deny that there's an enormous monetary aspect to all of the conference championship games, but I would quibble that the way that they're done currently doesn't make the sport better or generally produce compelling matchups.  The reason why they're attractive is because people want to see them, and they want to see them because for the most part they're compelling--two division winners going at it, head-to-head, for all the marbles.  When they're over, we have something that the Big XII is incapable of producing due to its poor decision making--one true champion.  Having the conference championship does improve a conference's athletic standing.  If it didn't, then we'd be talking about TCU in the playoff and not Ohio State.

This is different because it's not about any of those things, or even about the money--it's about making the path to the playoff easier for three programs, who already basically have an insanely easy road to begin with compared to teams in the other Power 5 leagues.  Additionally, the other Power 5 leagues made business decisions based on the rule; to permit the Big XII or ACC to do this puts them in a more favorable position with regard to those leagues.

[hogsanity]

The answer, eventually, will be 4 super conferences of 16-20 teams each, and the division winners going to a 8 team playoff. Could even go to 4 divisions in each conf, with the 4 division winners meeting on conf championship Saturday, and the two winners from each leagues " semi-finals " going to a national 8 team playoff.

[DeltaBoy]

Texas and OU made their bed and now they don't want to sleep in it anymore.

[Hogarusa]

Why do people think the Big 12 needs to lay down and follow the path that the Big 10, SeC, and Pac 12 started?  A round robin is great, you play every team in football and every team home and home in basketball.  And if they want to have a conf title in a 10 team league, i dont see the issue.  A TCU-Baylor rematch this year would have meant a spot in the playoff.  And they certainly have the greatedt stadium in America to play in.  Since when is a rematch between top 10 teams bad to watch?  I dont follow

[HogsArePeopleToo]

I have no problem with allowing a 10 team Big 12 to have a conference championship game. I would be in favor of it. Had there been upsets last week, and TCU and/or Baylor gotten into the Final 4, the outcry would have been how unfair it was that they only had to play twelve games...had the benefit of an extra bye week during the season....and didn't have to play a tough opponent in a championship game.

[HillBillyHogfan]

I would like to see what mid-major teams the Big12 would have to go get to make it a 12 team division.  The SEC could pretty much take 90% of the teams from any existing power 5 conference,  The big 12 on the other hand would have to go get a team from a lesser conference because there is no dang way any other team would leave their current conference to go to that joke known as the big 12

Best flag football conference in america!

[Michael D Huff AIA]

Why do people think the Big 12 needs to lay down and follow the path that the Big 10, SeC, and Pac 12 started?  A round robin is great, you play every team in football and every team home and home in basketball.  And if they want to have a conf title in a 10 team league, i dont see the issue.  A TCU-Baylor rematch this year would have meant a spot in the playoff.  And they certainly have the greatedt stadium in America to play in.  Since when is a rematch between top 10 teams bad to watch?  I dont follow

The problem is that the Big 12's leadership (Texas and Oklahoma) drove the bus into the parking lot that they are in now.  Nebraska and Missouri didn't want to deal with it anymore and they left, leaving the Big 12 with 10 teams.  The conference decided not to go get 2 more teams leaving them as the only power 5 conference WITHOUT a conference championship game.  This was a choice they made and now that their decision is proving to be a bad one (which is no shock to anyone except the Big 12), they start whining. 

The Big 12 is a joke.  Just look at their name.  They only have 10 teams.  Their slogan all season was "One True Champion", and they have a tie for the conference? 

<facepalm>

[Torqued pork]

I'll laugh hard if the Big XII gets their championship game and their highest ranked team promptly loses and gets knocked out of the playoffs.

[Inhogswetrust]

The Big XII, of course, is going to petition the NCAA to permit them to have a conference championship game with only 10 teams.  It turns out, however, that the Big XII isn't alone in its quest to breach the 12-team, divisional-format rule--the ACC is going to ask for the same thing.

"Why?" you might ask.  After all, the ACC already has 12 teams, two divisions, and a conference championship game.  The reason is that the ACC wants to do away with its divisional format and send the top two teams to the championship.  The strategy has to do mainly with the embarrassingly bad ACC Coastal division.  The argument goes that in 2012 and 2013, FSU and Clemson were clearly the best teams, but the Noles were matched up against Georgia Tech and Duke. 

So why not let the two best teams face off?  Well, because it's pointless.  In the 2012 and 2013 situations, FSU and Clemson did play it off, with the Noles winning both games by a margin of 100-51.  Not exactly compelling, championship football there.  If the two best teams are in the same division, they'll play each other anyway; if they're not, they'll meet in the conference championship game.  The ACC's logic amounts to nothing, at least on the field.

These proposals are going to be presented as "deregulation," but what the Big XII and the ACC are really asking for is conference welfare.  This doesn't have anything to do with crowning a champion or creating a compelling matchup--it's about increasing the chances of a representative from the weakling conferences of power football making the playoffs.  The ACC championship game might not produce a significant power matchup, making it harder on Florida State (let's be real, no one else is a threat to make it in from the ACC) to make a case at the end.  Since the Noles continued to drop despite being undefeated, it's spooked the ACC into making this appeal.

The Big XII--and by that, we're really just saying Texas and Oklahoma--wants its cake and to eat it too, as always.  They want to have 10 teams, a conference championship game, and a better shot at not being left at the kids table in the postseason.  Why, however, should the other leagues humor the Big XII?  The SEC, the B1G, and the Pac-12 all made moves to 12 teams predicated on following this rule and creating a conference championship game.  If the rule hadn't been in place, they might not have made some of the moves that they made.  Would the Pac-12 have taken Colorado and Utah?  Would the SEC, pioneers of the concept, taken Arkansas and South Carolina if they could have had a championship game without them?  Maybe, but there's nothing special about the Big XII.  Texas and Oklahoma have the conference they demanded; it's too bad if they made poor decisions, and it's not the SEC's--or the B1G's, Pac-12's, or NCAA's--obligation to help them escape the consequences.

These moves aren't about making the sport better, or providing compelling matchups, or even improving the conferences.  It's really about helping Texas, Oklahoma, and Florida State while continuing to prop up the ACC and the Big XII, one of which is chronically weak and the other chronically dysfunctional.  The SEC, B1G, Pac-12, and the NCAA should say no, not merely for their own sakes, but also for the sake of college football.

^ I couldn't have said it any better than this!

[jrulz83]

What everybody should say to the Big 12's proposal:

[Inhogswetrust]

I'll laugh hard if the Big XII gets their championship game and their highest ranked team promptly loses and gets knocked out of the playoffs.

It's happened before as far as their team getting knocked out of big bowls and the BCS. Ironically IF by some miracle Mizzou would have upset Bama there was a chance no one from the SEC would have gotten in. You will always be taking a chance of you championship game winner beating a better team and that conference not getting a team in the playoff but I think there is a greater chance of not getting one in without a conference championship game.

[hogsanity]

If Baylor would not have played such a pathetic ooc schedule this year, they still might have gotten. As long as they play 3 ooc teams like they have scheduled for next year, even with a ccg, they still might get left out of the 4 team playoff. With only 3 ooc games, they should never schedule a fcs team, but next year Baylor plays Lamar.

[Torqued pork]

If Baylor would not have played such a pathetic ooc schedule this year, they still might have gotten. As long as they play 3 ooc teams like they have scheduled for next year, even with a ccg, they still might get left out of the 4 team playoff. With only 3 ooc games, they should never schedule a fcs team, but next year Baylor plays Lamar.

And Big XII teams were told to beef up their nonconference schedule or this could easily happen. I have no sympathy for Baylor.

[lstewart]

Seems like them not having a championship game can help them some years, just as easily as it hurt them this year. The only reason neither Baylor or TCU got in was there were no upsets of the top teams in the championship games. Many years there are upsets, in which case the high ranked team losing the championship game would drop out. Although it hurt them this year, it could just as easily help them next year. I agree it is not really fair for their representative to be able to slip in without being exposed to a 13th game against a good opponent. Overall I think it would balance things and make it more fair to all the other conferences if they have a championship game, so they have to get one more tough win to qualify.

[Bacons Rebellion]

The marquee win for the Big 12 this year was TCU defeating Minnesota. When the Golden Gophers are a conference's showcase victim, they shouldn't expect a seat at the table.

And they basically had a conference championship game this year. Baylor played Kansas State on the last weekend of the year.

[Inhogswetrust]

Seems like them not having a championship game can help them some years, just as easily as it hurt them this year. The only reason neither Baylor or TCU got in was there were no upsets of the top teams in the championship games. Many years there are upsets, in which case the high ranked team losing the championship game would drop out. Although it hurt them this year, it could just as easily help them next year. I agree it is not really fair for their representative to be able to slip in without being exposed to a 13th game against a good opponent. Overall I think it would balance things and make it more fair to all the other conferences if they have a championship game, so they have to get one more tough win to qualify.

How many years has there been a major upset in the various conferences Champ games? I remember a few ironically in the little 12 but rarer in the others. Also the ranking of those teams in the game can matter. It would be very interesting to go back and do a simulation of it since expansion started.

[NaturalStateReb]

How many years has there been a major upset in the various conferences Champ games? I remember a few ironically in the little 12 but rarer in the others. Also the ranking of those teams in the game can matter. It would be very interesting to go back and do a simulation of it since expansion started.

Those upsets are part of the reason why the Big XII (read Texas and Oklahoma) was content to stay at 10 and kill their conference championship game.  When no conference championship game increased their chances of making a BCS bowl, they didn't want one; now that having one appears to be important to making the playoffs, they want one, but don't want to do what the rules require to have one.

There's no reason to change things to suit the constantly shifting, dysfunctional sands of the Big XII.  It's time that the folks in Austin and Norman begin to feel the effects of the moral hazards they've been running.  Fox bailed them out the last time they did something stupid and broke the league.  No one should bail them out this time.  They made poor decisions, and they should be responsible for those decisions.

[KluchHawg]

However if it would have been Texas or Oklahoma in the same position as Baylor or TCU, then Texas or Oklahoma would most likely be in the playoffs and it would be a non-issue for the Big XII.

[GolfnHog]

Texas and OU made their bed and now they don't want to sleep in it anymore.

Damn, now I know where my ex has been living!

[EastexHawg]

Why do people think the Big 12 needs to lay down and follow the path that the Big 10, SeC, and Pac 12 started?  A round robin is great, you play every team in football and every team home and home in basketball.  And if they want to have a conf title in a 10 team league, i dont see the issue.  A TCU-Baylor rematch this year would have meant a spot in the playoff.  And they certainly have the greatedt stadium in America to play in.  Since when is a rematch between top 10 teams bad to watch?  I dont follow

I agree.  At least with a 10 team conference everyone plays everyone else.  It's not like the SEC, Big 10, and Pac 12 are playing 11 game conference schedules.

I don't see the issue, either.

[NaturalStateReb]

I agree.  At least with a 10 team conference everyone plays everyone else.  It's not like the SEC, Big 10, and Pac 12 are playing 11 game conference schedules.

I don't see the issue, either.

I don't think there's anything wrong with them having a 10-team conference, but that decision has consequences that they have to accept.  They didn't just accidentally end up at 10; they could have gotten 12, but made a deliberate decision not to and forgo a conference championship game.  Fine, no problem, but live with the consequences. 

I guarantee that if they'd seen this result at the time, they wouldn't have a 10-team conference.

[BR]

YOU Pick Your's.................. Football Super 4 Divisions........ 

2,  8 Team Division. Play 9 Conf Games, 1 other Game from Power 4 Conf,  Then 2 from Group of Others (Marshall, North ILL, A-State, Southern Miss, Wake Forest, Etc)
Conference Winners plus 4 Wild cards make up 8 Team Playoff...  ALL Teams in Group of 64 HAVE to spend XXXX amount on Football every year... You don't your gone.

East:
Rutgers, Maryland, Boston College, Duke, Virgina, Virgina Tech, NC State, North Carolina
Florida, Florida State, Miami, UCF, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, Notre Dame

MidWest
Ohio State, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, Minnesota, Penn State, Pittsburgh
Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Illinois, Northwestern


South
Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State, Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Vanderbilt
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, A*M, Baylor, TCU, Arkansas,  LSU,


West
Colorado State, Colorado State, Utah, Utah State, Arizona, Arizona State, Air Force, BYU
UCLA, USC, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, San Diego State, Boise State

[NaturalStateReb]

However if it would have been Texas or Oklahoma in the same position as Baylor or TCU, then Texas or Oklahoma would most likely be in the playoffs and it would be a non-issue for the Big XII.

I'm not so sure.  The question isn't Texas vs. Baylor or OU vs. TCU; it's Texas or Oklahoma vs. Ohio State.  It's not like Texas or Oklahoma are bigger names than Ohio State.  Putting them in the same positions, we'd still be talking about one team who's major calling card was beating Minnesota, and the other would have barfed up 61 points in a loss where they scored 58.

I think, given the same scenario but with different teams, the committee would have done what they did this time:  forget about sorting out the Big XII's mess for them, and just pick the outright Big 10 champion who won a conference championship game 59-0, played 1 more game against a quality opponent, and only had 2 open dates instead of the 3 that every Big XII team got.

[NaturalStateReb]

YOU Pick Your's.................. Football Super 4 Divisions........ 

2,  8 Team Division. Play 9 Conf Games, 1 other Game from Power 4 Conf,  Then 2 from Group of Others (Marshall, North ILL, A-State, Southern Miss, Wake Forest, Etc)
Conference Winners plus 4 Wild cards make up 8 Team Playoff...  ALL Teams in Group of 64 HAVE to spend XXXX amount on Football every year... You don't your gone.

East:
Rutgers, Maryland, Boston College, Duke, Virgina, Virgina Tech, NC State, North Carolina
Florida, Florida State, Miami, UCF, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, Notre Dame

MidWest
Ohio State, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, Minnesota, Penn State, Pittsburgh
Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Illinois, Northwestern


South
Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State, Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Vanderbilt
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, A*M, Baylor, TCU, Arkansas,  LSU,


West
Colorado State, Colorado State, Utah, Utah State, Arizona, Arizona State, Air Force, BYU
UCLA, USC, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, San Diego State, Boise State

The major conferences aren't going to just break themselves up to satisfy romantic notions of mathematical symmetry.

[Fatty McGee]

No one can deny that there's an enormous monetary aspect to all of the conference championship games, but I would quibble that the way that they're done currently doesn't make the sport better or generally produce compelling matchups.  The reason why they're attractive is because people want to see them, and they want to see them because for the most part they're compelling--two division winners going at it, head-to-head, for all the marbles.  When they're over, we have something that the Big XII is incapable of producing due to its poor decision making--one true champion.  Having the conference championship does improve a conference's athletic standing.  If it didn't, then we'd be talking about TCU in the playoff and not Ohio State.

This is different because it's not about any of those things, or even about the money--it's about making the path to the playoff easier for three programs, who already basically have an insanely easy road to begin with compared to teams in the other Power 5 leagues.  Additionally, the other Power 5 leagues made business decisions based on the rule; to permit the Big XII or ACC to do this puts them in a more favorable position with regard to those leagues.

I'm with you unless they're a rematch. Because then it's just a question of who is hot that day. Which is why I hate the large conferences because ideally you'd play everyone in conference in regular season. I know I'm pissing in the wind here because the money train is too much though.

[jgphillips3]

I say grant the Big 12-2 a 1 or 2 year waiver on condition that they must have 12 teams by the expiration of the waiver or no further championship games will be allowed.  The ACC needs to be told NO.

[NaturalStateReb]

I'm with you unless they're a rematch. Because then it's just a question of who is hot that day. Which is why I hate the large conferences because ideally you'd play everyone in conference in regular season. I know I'm pissing in the wind here because the money train is too much though.

I agree on the rematch.  I don't love them, because I think that game's already been played once, and a rematch with a different result just muddies everything up. 

That's probably my biggest complaint about they want to do--in the ACC if the two best are from the same division, we've already seen that; if they're not, we'd see the matchup in the system we have now.  In the Big XII, it's a guaranteed rematch with the round robin schedule.  You may actually be insuring a TCU/Baylor type problem will arise with some frequency.

[Jamie Jones]

First of all, before the super conferences and expanded playoffs could be a reality, there would have to be new television and sponsorship deals made that increased the monetary payout that comes from the bowl system. Example: Mississippi State jumped from 10 to 7, over Michigan State in the final poll, while both teams were idle. Did Mississippi St. suddenly become better than Michigan St.? No, the Bulldogs are simply closer to Miami, FL than the Spartans are. Hence, the Orange Bowl bid goes to the SEC. That is a HUGE ($$$) deal! So, look forward to the current playoff system for the foreseeable future.

The Big 12 is run by Texas. Oklahoma is allowed to have a little more voice than the other 8 institutions, but Texas runs the show. They aren't going to give up their share of the revenue, as skewed as it already is, for the addition of 2 more teams. In years that the Big 12 don't make the playoffs, Texas loses nearly nothing. They only stand to gain by have a representative in the big dance. The trade off for splitting revenue EVERY year with two more schools is simply not worth the risk of all the future seasons when the Big 12 misses out. And those seasons would likely be often with the type of teams that could be added to the conference schedule. The additions would likely be from lower conferences and would only hinder the SOS of the conference. The Big 12 is now at an impasse. Their best shot is that they have a team go undefeated or have one loss while one of the other conferences eat their own and miss out on the playoff. It nearly worked this year. But those $$$ signs are sure looming large.

[NaturalStateReb]

First of all, before the super conferences and expanded playoffs could be a reality, there would have to be new television and sponsorship deals made that increased the monetary payout that comes from the bowl system. Example: Mississippi State jumped from 10 to 7, over Michigan State in the final poll, while both teams were idle. Did Mississippi St. suddenly become better than Michigan St.? No, the Bulldogs are simply closer to Miami, FL than the Spartans are. Hence, the Orange Bowl bid goes to the SEC. That is a HUGE ($$$) deal! So, look forward to the current playoff system for the foreseeable future.

The Big 12 is run by Texas. Oklahoma is allowed to have a little more voice than the other 8 institutions, but Texas runs the show. They aren't going to give up their share of the revenue, as skewed as it already is, for the addition of 2 more teams. In years that the Big 12 don't make the playoffs, Texas loses nearly nothing. They only stand to gain by have a representative in the big dance. The trade off for splitting revenue EVERY year with two more schools is simply not worth the risk of all the future seasons when the Big 12 misses out. And those seasons would likely be often with the type of teams that could be added to the conference schedule. The additions would likely be from lower conferences and would only hinder the SOS of the conference. The Big 12 is now at an impasse. Their best shot is that they have a team go undefeated or have one loss while one of the other conferences eat their own and miss out on the playoff. It nearly worked this year. But those $$$ signs are sure looming large.

Unless they can make up that revenue by recouping bowl revenue streams they're not getting now and forming a network.  The downside is that's going to require Texas to play nice, and they're deeply committed to not doing that.

[Inhogswetrust]

Those upsets are part of the reason why the Big XII (read Texas and Oklahoma) was content to stay at 10 and kill their conference championship game.  When no conference championship game increased their chances of making a BCS bowl, they didn't want one; now that having one appears to be important to making the playoffs, they want one, but don't want to do what the rules require to have one.

There's no reason to change things to suit the constantly shifting, dysfunctional sands of the Big XII.  It's time that the folks in Austin and Norman begin to feel the effects of the moral hazards they've been running.  Fox bailed them out the last time they did something stupid and broke the league.  No one should bail them out this time.  They made poor decisions, and they should be responsible for those decisions.

100% agree!

[Inhogswetrust]

YOU Pick Your's.................. Football Super 4 Divisions........ 

2,  8 Team Division. Play 9 Conf Games, 1 other Game from Power 4 Conf,  Then 2 from Group of Others (Marshall, North ILL, A-State, Southern Miss, Wake Forest, Etc)
Conference Winners plus 4 Wild cards make up 8 Team Playoff...  ALL Teams in Group of 64 HAVE to spend XXXX amount on Football every year... You don't your gone.

East:
Rutgers, Maryland, Boston College, Duke, Virgina, Virgina Tech, NC State, North Carolina
Florida, Florida State, Miami, UCF, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, Notre Dame

MidWest
Ohio State, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, Minnesota, Penn State, Pittsburgh
Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Illinois, Northwestern


South
Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State, Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Vanderbilt
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, A*M, Baylor, TCU, Arkansas,  LSU,


West
Colorado State, Colorado State, Utah, Utah State, Arizona, Arizona State, Air Force, BYU
UCLA, USC, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, San Diego State, Boise State

Not bad  but why include the group of others..............Play teams in the other super conferences for OOC scheduling and rotate them around. Also I would move LSU to the south and kick Vandy out and put Texas Tech in their place. Also replace Duke with Syracuse. Why have Air Force but not the other service academies also. Put New Mexico in place of SDSU or Air Force. Put WVU in place of UCF. That's all I can think of for now.

[Inhogswetrust]

that's going to require Texas to play nice, and they're deeply committed to not doing that.

Never have and never will. It goes against their arrogance.

[Inhogswetrust]

I say grant the Big 12-2 a 1 or 2 year waiver on condition that they must have 12 teams by the expiration of the waiver or no further championship games will be allowed.  The ACC needs to be told NO.

Why even grant a waiver then with stipulations JUST to placate them. No need to. Screw em and tell them to do what they have to do to better their chances like all the other conferences did. What the hell makes them so special to think they deserve a waiver. Simply tell both of them no.

[Inhogswetrust]

One more thought is IF not having a champ game hurts because of a lack of playing a thirteenth game then shouldn't that hold true for ND and BYU?

[DoctorSusscrofa]

Regardless of all the other issues, it's kind of dumb to allow a conference to have 10 members, tell them 10 isn't big enough to have a ccg and then use the fact that they are 10 members and don't have a ccg as grounds to exclude them from the CFP.  If 10 members and no ccg is grounds for exclusion, then make them go to 12 and have a ccg. With the BXII having a true round robin it's almost guaranteed they won't generally schedule many upper echelon P5 teams for non conference games (or if they do they'll risk lising multiple games). Should get all P5 conferences operating under the same system to get all 5 evaluated under the same criteria for the CFP.

[hogsanity]

One more thought is IF not having a champ game hurts because of a lack of playing a thirteenth game then shouldn't that hold true for ND and BYU?

Read an article yesterday talking about how ND, after seeing what happened to Baylor/TCU, is very concerned about their own prospects in getting selected to a playoff unless they go undefeated.

[DoctorSusscrofa]

One more thought is IF not having a champ game hurts because of a lack of playing a thirteenth game then shouldn't that hold true for ND and BYU?

It should. Although that problem hasn't raised its ugly head yet.

[NaturalStateReb]

Regardless of all the other issues, it's kind of dumb to allow a conference to have 10 members, tell them 10 isn't big enough to have a ccg and then use the fact that they are 10 members and don't have a ccg as grounds to exclude them from the CFP.  If 10 members and no ccg is grounds for exclusion, then make them go to 12 and have a ccg. With the BXII having a true round robin it's almost guaranteed they won't generally schedule many upper echelon P5 teams for non conference games (or if they do they'll risk lising multiple games). Should get all P5 conferences operating under the same system to get all 5 evaluated under the same criteria for the CFP.

They're not excluded.  The choice they made by staying at 10 just makes it more challenging for them.  They could have went to 12 and retained the CCG.  They chose not to.  Therefore, they must accept the consequences of their decision.  Too bad they made a poor one, but that's really not our problem to fix.  It's theirs.

[Hogwild]

The Big XII, of course, is going to petition the NCAA to permit them to have a conference championship game with only 10 teams.  It turns out, however, that the Big XII isn't alone in its quest to breach the 12-team, divisional-format rule--the ACC is going to ask for the same thing.

"Why?" you might ask.  After all, the ACC already has 12 teams, two divisions, and a conference championship game. 

ACC already has 14 plus their agreement with the Irish.

[Hogfaniam]

YOU Pick Your's.................. Football Super 4 Divisions........ 

2,  8 Team Division. Play 9 Conf Games, 1 other Game from Power 4 Conf,  Then 2 from Group of Others (Marshall, North ILL, A-State, Southern Miss, Wake Forest, Etc)
Conference Winners plus 4 Wild cards make up 8 Team Playoff...  ALL Teams in Group of 64 HAVE to spend XXXX amount on Football every year... You don't your gone.

East:
Rutgers, Maryland, Boston College, Duke, Virgina, Virgina Tech, NC State, North Carolina
Florida, Florida State, Miami, UCF, Georgia, South Carolina, Clemson, Notre Dame

MidWest
Ohio State, Indiana, Michigan State, Michigan, Purdue, Minnesota, Penn State, Pittsburgh
Iowa, Iowa State, Missouri, Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State, Illinois, Northwestern


South
Alabama, Auburn, Ole Miss, Miss State, Kentucky, Tennessee, Louisville, Vanderbilt
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, A*M, Baylor, TCU, Arkansas,  LSU,


West
Colorado State, Colorado State, Utah, Utah State, Arizona, Arizona State, Air Force, BYU
UCLA, USC, Oregon, Oregon State, Washington, Washington State, San Diego State, Boise State

no need for any of that.  just raise the avg attendance criteria for what constitutes an FBS school and let the chips fall where they may.  currently, it is 15k, which i doubt pays for 85 scholarships and other overhead. if your attendance meets the criteria, you can join or stay in.  if it falls below whatever level it is that allows you to compete with what is now a p5 school, you go to fcs.

here are the lowest attendance figures i could find for teams in a p5 conference.

duke 26k
wake forest 28k

maybe incrementally move the minimum to 30k. (avg fbs is 45k)  this would weed out the unrealistic programs

teams outside p5 & independants that would qualify:

air force 32k       
boise st 34k         
cincinnati 32k     
e. carolina 44k   
fresno st  37k     
hawaii 31k           
san diego st 33k   
s. florida  35k       
ucf 42k               

[hogsanity]

They're not excluded.  The choice they made by staying at 10 just makes it more challenging for them.  They could have went to 12 and retained the CCG.  They chose not to.  Therefore, they must accept the consequences of their decision.  Too bad they made a poor one, but that's really not our problem to fix.  It's theirs.

I think, had Baylor not played the blind sisters of the poor THREE TIMES in their ooc schedule, they would have made the playoff. If they would have played a NIU type team, then maybe Illinois and Kentucky even and gone 11-1 overall, they very well might be getting ready to play Bama.

[jvanhorn]

Texas and OU made their bed and now they don't want to sleep in it anymore.

Well one thing I do kind of like about the Big 12 is that they have to play each and every team in the league every season.  No season where you might, see Missouri, have a weaker schedule than the other division.  In a sense they really are the only conference that is crowning a true champion.  They have played everyone in the conference, no exceptions, and proved they are the best in the conference.

Of course that doesn't account for the idiot they have as commish.  If two teams have the same record then and have played each other then how can there be co-champions.  One team won, one did not.

[Inhogswetrust]

Well one thing I do kind of like about the Big 12 is that they have to play each and every team in the league every season.  No season where you might, see Missouri, have a weaker schedule than the other division.  In a sense they really are the only conference that is crowning a true champion.  They have played everyone in the conference, no exceptions, and proved they are the best in the conference.

Of course that doesn't account for the idiot they have as commish.  If two teams have the same record then and have played each other then how can there be co-champions.  One team won, one did not.

But no matter how you slice it they played one LESS game that the other conference champions won.

[hoghiker]

I agree.  At least with a 10 team conference everyone plays everyone else.  It's not like the SEC, Big 10, and Pac 12 are playing 11 game conference schedules.

I don't see the issue, either.

If you don't see the issue, then you don't want to. The rule is twelve to have a Championship match. SEC confirmed the rule. Played by the rules and here we are. Same with the B1G. Serious work and change to meet the standard. Why would the NCAA change the rule for a conference that didn't want the game or to trouble themselves with meeting the standard. It's a little late in the gig to change the rules. Texas and OKie U rolled the dice like it didn't matter. Turns out it did. Pretty simple really. Easy to see.

[Biggus Piggus]

If you are going to be the Big 12 --- BE THE BIG TWELVE. Good lord.

[Inhogswetrust]

If you don't see the issue, then you don't want to. The rule is twelve to have a Championship match. SEC confirmed the rule. Played by the rules and here we are. Same with the B1G. Serious work and change to meet the standard. Why would the NCAA change the rule for a conference that didn't want the game or to trouble themselves with meeting the standard. It's a little late in the gig to change the rules. Texas and OKie U rolled the dice like it didn't matter. Turns out it did. Pretty simple really. Easy to see.

Don't forget the Pac12...............

[DoctorSusscrofa]

They're not excluded.  The choice they made by staying at 10 just makes it more challenging for them.  They could have went to 12 and retained the CCG.  They chose not to.  Therefore, they must accept the consequences of their decision.  Too bad they made a poor one, but that's really not our problem to fix.  It's theirs.

They're not formally excluded, but they are in a practical sense. Any BigXII champion not named Texas or Oklahoma won't get seeded in a 4 team playoff unless they're undefeated. The ideal solution is for the Big XII to add 2 teams and a ccg. But that may not happen soon enough. The rule requiring 12 members in order to split in divisions and have a ccg is arbitrary. If the other conferences found it difficult to get or keep an 11th and 12th member they'd want to scrap the rule just much as the Big XII may want to.  I say let the Big XII split and have a ccg. It will make the criteria and evaluation of teams like Baylor and TCU more fair and equal and help avoid the same 8 or 9 teams being invited to CFP every year. Without this we're likely to see Bama, Ohio St, FSU, and Oregon over and over. Sure, occasionally LSU, Oklahoma, USC, Texas, and Georgia will take a turn, but TCU, Baylor, Oklahoma State, and Kansas St can just forget it even if they have a great team. They won't make the playoff with 1 loss without a ccg and neither will any other Big XII team. Everyone knows most of the Big XII's problems are because of Texas and Oklahoma. I for 1 don't want to practically ban an excellent TCU or Baylor from CFP as a consequence of Texas' choice when Texas won't actually suffer a bit. (The next time Texas finally has an 11 win season, they'll be right back in the national title conversation.) College football will be better off if the Big XII champion is in the conversation even if it isn't the Longhorns or Sooners. A 13th game will even the playing field for all 5 of the P5 conferences, regardless of whether that conference has 2 more or 2 less members than 12. And with 5 conferences, the committee can always leave out the weakest champ not just arbitrarily drop the one that didn't play 13 games. No system will be totally 100% fair. But dropping a team 3 spots over their failure to play a ccg when everyone knew the rules didn't allow a 10 team league to play one is silly. There are better ways to eliminate teams than to blame them for obeying the rules. Let them play a ccg and one team gets eliminated, and the champion has a body of work more equal to the other champions. And they can be evaluated more fairly and without unnecessary controversy.

[Oklahawg]

I still hold out hope for the ridiculously unlikely event that conference raiders hit the B12-2, and on the same day...

Pac12 picks up KS, KState, Baylor and TCU.
B1G picks up Iowa State and somebody (tough with the academic requirements)
SEC picks up OU and OSU.
ACC picks up WVa and somebody (UCF was mentioned somewhere...decent option given not much is left on the shelves).

Suddenly Texas and lil brother Texas Tech are left all alone. But, there is the Longhorn Network.

Hmm, The LHN might be the only thing that saves Texas from its own arrogance.