O - Line question

[TeedupHigh]

Is what happen to our run game the fault of the play calling on the line blocking over the past three games?  If it's play calling then it should be on Chaney, BUT if it's lack of the line getting the blocking done should that not be on Pittman?  Trying to understand all the hate with the OC....Like most things in football the offense is limited to the Offensive line, HOGS line MAY have earned there Rep early in the season, never had another Texas Tech game as the season rolled on.

[Sooie71923]

I don't know, you tell me.

A "power run" team that can't convert 3rd or 4th and 1....   

If a team can't get 1 or 2 yards with the biggest OLine in the world, do you people really fool yourselves into believing it's coaching?!

Our OLine is soft and needs to man up. 

[LJHOG]

big and slow.  quickness beats them consistently.

[Lake City Hog]

Guys, HOGVILLE has built the reputation of our O'Line. Our starters consist of (2) 4* and (3) 3* linemen. And to hear most of you one of the 4* guys is our weakest link, yet we nearly never hear his number called. Rarely do we hear his number called for a false start or a holding penalty or getting beat for a sack. Yet he is the "weak" guy and shouldn't be on the field.

We have a "big" offensive line, but not a great O'Line. MOST of you are already touting Wallace as a "beast" yet he has never stepped on the field. What will this kid have to do to live up to expectations? If we are to ever have a dominant O'Line we simply have to start redshirting those guys.

In my mind the most glaring mistake that BB has made is playing Kirkland and Skipper as freshmen last season. Their participation did not affect the outcome of a single game, yet we lost 1 full year of eligibility. A year that could be really important 3 years from now. Imagine a final year of Kirkland, Koehler and Skipper as 5th year seniors, Wallace and Ragnow as 4th year juniors with a sprinkling of others in the mix.

[Hoggam's Razor]

Blame it on depth.  As the game progresses the O-line gets worn down.  Being big has it's downfalls too.  I think next year we are going to be much deeper.

[LR54]

I don't know, you tell me.

A "power run" team that can't convert 3rd or 4th and 1....   

If a team can't get 1 or 2 yards with the biggest OLine in the world, do you people really fool yourselves into believing it's coaching?!

Our OLine is soft and needs to man up.

Arkansas is 5th in the SEC in third and fourth down conversions.

Miss. St. and Auburn, two of the top rushing teams, are 12th and 13th.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I don't know, you tell me.

A "power run" team that can't convert 3rd or 4th and 1....   

If a team can't get 1 or 2 yards with the biggest OLine in the world, do you people really fool yourselves into believing it's coaching?!

Our OLine is soft and needs to man up. 

This part, just isn't true at all.

[rickm1976]

Guys, HOGVILLE has built the reputation of our O'Line. Our starters consist of (2) 4* and (3) 3* linemen. And to hear most of you one of the 4* guys is our weakest link, yet we nearly never hear his number called. Rarely do we hear his number called for a false start or a holding penalty or getting beat for a sack. Yet he is the "weak" guy and shouldn't be on the field.

We have a "big" offensive line, but not a great O'Line. MOST of you are already touting Wallace as a "beast" yet he has never stepped on the field. What will this kid have to do to live up to expectations? If we are to ever have a dominant O'Line we simply have to start redshirting those guys.

In my mind the most glaring mistake that BB has made is playing Kirkland and Skipper as freshmen last season. Their participation did not affect the outcome of a single game, yet we lost 1 full year of eligibility. A year that could be really important 3 years from now. Imagine a final year of Kirkland, Koehler and Skipper as 5th year seniors, Wallace and Ragnow as 4th year juniors with a sprinkling of others in the mix.

Best analysis I've heard.  We are the biggest line in football, and I suspect we may be the slowest and clumsiest too. Not really, but these guys are still young, and need another year or two strength/conditioning/experience before we get the best out of them.  I'm not worried about losing them early to the NFL either - not the way they're playing right now.

[blu]

Blame it on depth.  As the game progresses the O-line gets worn down.  Being big has it's downfalls too.  I think next year we are going to be much deeper.

Not sure about the much deeper part, unless we plan on playing several True Freshman again. We will have 3 returning tackles - Skipper, Wallace, and Beck with only one having any meaningful experience. Guard/Center depth should be OK with Smothers, Ragnow, Kirkland, Tretola all back plus hopefully Koehler will be able to start contributing. I see OL depth as a glaring weakness right now. On the plus side, should be a good selling point for recruits wanting to come in and play right away.

[Sooie71923]

Oh it's true alright.   Against SEC teams, arkansas fails to get 1 or 2 yards on 3rd and 4th down on the ground. 

And it has costed us games.   

The OLine is average to good. Our RBs are just "good".

[IBleedRazorbackRed]

Not sure about the much deeper part, unless we plan on playing several True Freshman again. We will have 3 returning tackles - Skipper, Wallace, and Beck with only one having any meaningful experience. Guard/Center depth should be OK with Smothers, Ragnow, Kirkland, Tretola all back plus hopefully Koehler will be able to start contributing. I see OL depth as a glaring weakness right now. On the plus side, should be a good selling point for recruits wanting to come in and play right away.

Youth and lack of depth

[tophawg19]

8 and 9 guys in the box is to much for any O-LINE  to block. Until defenses have to fear and respect our passing game , it won't get better

[BrianWPS!!]

8 and 9 guys in the box is to much for any O-LINE  to block. Until defenses have to fear and respect our passing game , it won't get better

This exactly. It's doesn't matter how good the oline is, you can't pass the ball downfield, safeties are nothing but extra linebackers looking to help filling gaps.

[Piggfoot]

I believe the O-Line is well coached. Each player has strengths and weaknesses.
Their over all weakness is lack of quickness. This has been pointed out by the coaches when they said we don't do well in screen blocking. I interpret that as lack of speed and agility. When we had Kiero Small he had the speed and agility to block a man in space. Our present Fullback is not as adept as Kiero.
Our present lineman do not have Travis Swanson's ability to pull and lead around end. We may be able to wham/trap but late in the season defensive linemen look for this trap or they will find themselves looking through their ear hole.
I think each player played to the best of his ability and it is not fair to expect a player to play above his ability. In all sports there are different class levels.
In racing a horse may occasionally run above his class but not often. Football players are the same. Fans should always think about this.

[SavoySeamster]

8 and 9 guys in the box is to much for any O-LINE  to block. Until defenses have to fear and respect our passing game , it won't get better

A quarter back can make your linemen look good.......or not so good. The passing has to improve before the o-line "seems" to be great.

[Kevin]

Nobody mentioned the lack of depth when we were running t tech & northern Illinois off the field.

Nobody would mention depth had our coaches not mentioned it after the meltdown at auburn

[redeye]

I don't know, you tell me.

A "power run" team that can't convert 3rd or 4th and 1....   

If a team can't get 1 or 2 yards with the biggest OLine in the world, do you people really fool yourselves into believing it's coaching?!

Our OLine is soft and needs to man up.

I think it's both and I'll use this situation as an example.

We failed to score on a 1st and goal against Ole Miss, when we were at the 1 yard line, What did we run?  The only play I can remember was a WHAM, but I believe they all took a little time to develop, which gave Ole Miss players time to get in the backfield.  Why not just run the Wildcat, a QB sneak or something that would take less time?  Maybe we were not good enough to move the line forward, despite our size advantage, but with the speed Ole Miss had on their line, it didn't make sense to me to draw up plays that took time.  Ultimately, our players missed assignments that allowed Ole Miss in the backfield and it just seems like simplifying the play would have minimized such mistakes.  We're slower, but bigger, so why not take advantage of that?

Our OL is definitely a little overrated, but if you consider their entire body of work, I think they're still very impressive.  We've recruited well at the position and supposedly have an elite OL coach.  We may still have a ways to go before we get where our coaches want us to be, but they've beaten the #13 and #23 teams, while also stomping teams that fared very well against others (e.g. NIU beat Northwestern and Texas Tech came close to beating Baylor yesterday.)  So, we haven't run over every ranked team we've played, but who does?

So, yes, our OL does need to improve, but I think play-calling has been the bigger problem for them.

[redeye]

Guys, HOGVILLE has built the reputation of our O'Line.

I have to disagree here.  The national media built our reputation up after the Texas Tech game.  I guess they foolishly thought we would do that to everyone, although I'm sure Bielema's reputation for great OL play also helped.  But hogville didn't start pushing that line until after the national media kept repeating it.

8 and 9 guys in the box is to much for any O-LINE  to block. Until defenses have to fear and respect our passing game , it won't get better

That's what you have to do with 1st and goal at the one yard line and it can be done.  However, I'm not completely disagreeing, because our line spends so much time facing stacked boxes that it probably does wear them out faster.

[TeedupHigh]

So none of this is the fault of O-line coaching but it is bad play calling.........Grip when we run, Gripe when we pass..................

[Theolesnort]

8 and 9 guys in the box is to much for any O-LINE  to block. Until defenses have to fear and respect our passing game , it won't get better

They have no understanding on what is going on tophawg. Instead of me arguing I will just say if you think this line is soft or average try to remember this when Phil Steele's magazine comes out this summer and you see where they are ranked as a offensive line, well just suffice for me to say I told some of you knuckleheads so.   Trust me on this, the best way that the perception of the offensive line gets better would be for  a couple of receivers like Auburn has would come on board, Williams and Cotes for an example. I know a number of you guys can't see the connection but it is there.

[hogman64]

You guys talking about how crummy our o-line is are funny......amazing you could care enough about football to be on a message board, I assume actually watch the games  and still have that opinion.

[kp72204]

I think it's both and I'll use this situation as an example.

We failed to score on a 1st and goal against Ole Miss, when we were at the 1 yard line, What did we run?  The only play I can remember was a WHAM, but I believe they all took a little time to develop, which gave Ole Miss players time to get in the backfield.  Why not just run the Wildcat, a QB sneak or something that would take less time?  Maybe we were not good enough to move the line forward, despite our size advantage, but with the speed Ole Miss had on their line, it didn't make sense to me to draw up plays that took time.  Ultimately, our players missed assignments that allowed Ole Miss in the backfield and it just seems like simplifying the play would have minimized such mistakes.  We're slower, but bigger, so why not take advantage of that?

Our OL is definitely a little overrated, but if you consider their entire body of work, I think they're still very impressive.  We've recruited well at the position and supposedly have an elite OL coach.  We may still have a ways to go before we get where our coaches want us to be, but they've beaten the #13 and #23 teams, while also stomping teams that fared very well against others (e.g. NIU beat Northwestern and Texas Tech came close to beating Baylor yesterday.)  So, we haven't run over every ranked team we've played, but who does?

So, yes, our OL does need to improve, but I think play-calling has been the bigger problem for them.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[smb]

Then problem with having the biggest offensive line in football? Is once we got into SEC play they were getting beat almost every game. Which every announcer love to mention I think just to see them get beat.

[tophawg19]

They have no understanding on what is going on tophawg. Instead of me arguing I will just say if you think this line is soft or average try to remember this when Phil Steele's magazine comes out this summer and you see where they are ranked as a offensive line, well just suffice for me to say I told some of you knuckleheads so.   Trust me on this, the best way that the perception of the offensive line gets better would be for  a couple of receivers like Auburn has would come on board, Williams and Cotes for an example. I know a number of you guys can't see the connection but it is there.

i think our WR'S are ok . we have to have a QB throwing deep to create separation and backing off the safeties . We can't continue to face 9  guys in the box . 5 o-linemen and a TE can't block 9

[ChicoHog]

i think our WR'S are ok . we have to have a QB throwing deep to create separation and backing off the safeties . We can't continue to face 9  guys in the box . 5 o-linemen and a TE can't block 9

Ok at best.  Hatcher is the only WR we have who could crack the 2 deep at most SEC schools.

[TeedupHigh]

Point I'm TRYING to make is Chaney will catch hell after each loss because of poor play calling, but never ever does any other coach get called out.  Line don't hold block's on third and one, Receivers drop balls that should be caught, running backs fumble, D-backs drop interceptions, etc  BUT it seems always to be Jim Chaney's fault for poor play calling!

[HOGINTENNESSEE]

Ok at best.  Hatcher is the only WR we have who could crack the 2 deep at most SEC schools.

I think the 3 freshman have SEC potential. But the need to make a hatcher Fr to Sop year type jump.

[Pig In The City]

8 and 9 guys in the box is to much for any O-LINE  to block. Until defenses have to fear and respect our passing game , it won't get better

well said.

[TheGrove68]

If you have DL talent the scheme Ark. runs is not hard to defend...if you don't then a brusier OL can wear a team down. Play calling is not a problem...scheme to offensive talent ratio is.

[Boarmonger]

I think it is a smattering of all the above.  Quick DL give us trouble and we can't run the screen type plays to negate them.  I'm not sure they're getting under their blocks like they were in the beginning of the year.  The stacked boxes won't go away until the passing game is better.

[carolinahogger]

i think our WR'S are ok . we have to have a QB throwing deep to create separation and backing off the safeties . We can't continue to face 9  guys in the box . 5 o-linemen and a TE can't block 9

BA can make the deep throws, deep into the stands.

[elksnort]

Nobody mentioned the lack of depth when we were running t tech & northern Illinois off the field.

Nobody would mention depth had our coaches not mentioned it after the meltdown at auburn

Exactly. Maybe I am just old and out of touch with today's football, but I have never heard where an offensive line rotates due to fatigue. Defensive line yes, but not offensive line. Heck, years ago, players played both ways.

[TheAlphaHog]

 :razorback:
The O line will be better when we add speed to our receivers and if we can get a speed back next year.
Then defenses can't load the box, but if they do.......
Then everyone will be singing the praises of the O line.

It's a matter of recruiting, building depth and getting the players in the Coach B wants.
This year's recruiting class will help meet that.
Woo Pig

[Rocky&Boarwinkle]

Nobody mentioned the lack of depth when we were running t tech & northern Illinois off the field.

Nobody would mention depth had our coaches not mentioned it after the meltdown at auburn

Do you know what Texas Tech and Northern Illinois have in common?  They don't have as much talent on the line as we do.  Do you know what Auburn and many of the other losses had in common?  They had more talent and rotated them religiously.

If you would think instead of having an agenda, you could answer all of these silly questions you ask.

[Kevin]

Do you know what Texas Tech and Northern Illinois have in common?  They don't have as much talent on the line as we do.  Do you know what Auburn and many of the other losses had in common?  They had more talent and rotated them religiously.

If you would think instead of having an agenda, you could answer all of these silly questions you ask.

name the teams that rotate more than 2 o linemen a game?

[code red]

Hogs played 8 opponents and all of them except 1 ended the year ranked.  I would propose it would be hard to run on any of those.  So....improve the pass game.

[emdavenp]

My only concern about our O-Line is the lack of push on the goal line at times.

[longpig]

8 and 9 guys in the box is to much for any O-LINE  to block. Until defenses have to fear and respect our passing game , it won't get better

Absolutely, I'd say BA's arm has improved, but we still lack a deep ball and our receivers lack the skills to get separation.  Can't run if you can't pass.

[lumphog]

Is what happen to our run game the fault of the play calling on the line blocking over the past three games?  If it's play calling then it should be on Chaney, BUT if it's lack of the line getting the blocking done should that not be on Pittman?  Trying to understand all the hate with the OC....Like most things in football the offense is limited to the Offensive line, HOGS line MAY have earned there Rep early in the season, never had another Texas Tech game as the season rolled on.

DEPTH!!!! is the problem. Pittman & Chaney.......we're damblucky to have them. They will be KEY to our success......Hide & Watch!!!!

[code red]

DEPTH!!!! is the problem. Pittman & Chaney.......we're damblucky to have them. They will be KEY to our success......Hide & Watch!!!!

ALL OF HOGVILLE NEEDS TO READ THIS TRUTH

[Youngsta71701]

8 and 9 guys in the box is to much for any O-LINE  to block. Until defenses have to fear and respect our passing game , it won't get better

Is Wisconsin saying that?

[Rocky&Boarwinkle]

name the teams that rotate more than 2 o linemen a game?

I was talking about rotating their defensive lineman.  We are talking about our o-line's performance right?  They played against teams that had better talent and rotated their defensive lines.  Who cares if they rotated their offensive line or not.

And plenty of schools do sub in offensive lineman, but usually only for a series or two, and they tend to stagger it so that there are usually at least 4 of the starters in.  It's the only way to build game experience on the line, except for injuries or benchings.

[ShadowTheHedgehog]

They start great and we roll in the first quarter, but then their intensity and power runs out and we suffer. Starting somewhere around the mid/end of the second quarter. IMO we either need smaller but faster and more conditioned linemen or more quality linemen so we can keep the same level of play the whole game.

In their defense they have also played many young guys so maybe the fatigue is also mental. If that is the case we should see much better play next year when they are more experienced.

[thirrdegreetusker]

The only play I can remember was a WHAM, but I believe they all took a little time to develop, which gave Ole Miss players time to get in the backfield.  Why not just run the Wildcat, a QB sneak or something that would take less time?  Maybe we were not good enough to move the line forward, despite our size advantage, but with the speed Ole Miss had on their line, it didn't make sense to me to draw up plays that took time. 

My thoughts, as well. If we are up against a "small but fast" defense, why hand the ball to a RB, that is seven yards deep, and send him up the middle?

Instead, put a FB lined up directly behind the QB, and give it to him quick.....or fake it quick up the middle left, then option or toss-sweep wide right. Use their speed against them.

[HF#1]

It was kind of like our defensive line under Petrino.  Year after year we were told how dominant they were going to be and then they would not come close to it.

This offensive line lived off the hype generated from the Texas Tech performance.

[longpig]

Is Wisconsin saying that?

They are now.

[Wildhog]

Whatever it is, we should all expect major improvement in our terrible offense next season.

[Lake City Hog]

Guys, on 3rd or 4th and a yard or less you run a play that fits your strengths. You don't fake or have the QB reverse pivot, you take the snap and your best back comes downhill and wedges in behind Tretola and gets the first down.

Fakes and such give the "quick" guys the chance to do just that. out-quick the O'Line and make the stop. Play to your own strength, bullish straight ahead blocking. For that split second power will usually beat speed and that should be all we need.

What has happened to the O'Line splits? It would seem to me that the O'Line taking wider splits would help on short yardage too or am I showing my age?

[Qadi999]

8 and 9 guys in the box is to much for any O-LINE  to block. Until defenses have to fear and respect our passing game , it won't get better

This is such a load of crap that's been handed out. Ga Tech faces 9 and 10 man fronts and still run the ball with no threat of a passing game. and Ill tell you another load of crap is the idea of lack of depth 99% of the teams in NFL and collage have 5 men that get 90to 99% of the snaps in a game. The only time that depth becomes an issues is during injures.  Bottom line This team lacks speed and strength along the entire line and we have the worst blocking TE in all of football.

[hawgmasta]

This is such a load of crap that's been handed out. Ga Tech faces 9 and 10 man fronts and still run the ball with no threat of a passing game. and Ill tell you another load of crap is the idea of lack of depth 99% of the teams in NFL and collage have 5 men that get 90to 99% of the snaps in a game. The only time that depth becomes an issues is during injures.  Bottom line This team lacks speed and strength along the entire line and we have the worst blocking TE in all of football.

Worst blocking TE in all of football? Really? Your gonna go there.