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Is Bret Bielema ahead of, right on, or behind schedule?

Started by Joe Lee Kimes Jr., September 04, 2016, 12:56:02 pm

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At the start of his 4th season, Bret Bielema is

Ahead of schedule.
15 (2.5%)
Right on schedule.
352 (59.7%)
Behind schedule
223 (37.8%)

Total Members Voted: 589

phadedhawg


jcbville


 

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Razorbackers on September 04, 2016, 04:31:03 pm
Anyone with a brain knew this season was going to be a step down. The problem is, a lot of homerism took over (as is tradition) as we approached kickoff.

The line is not great. The QB is inexperienced. The running backs are ok. A lot of people expected Whaley to put up Collins level numbers as a freshmen which is just unreasonable. Maybe now people will realize just how special of a player Alex truly was.

The defense looked solid. LA Tech was always going to gain yards, but what mattered were the points. And when the offense didn't turn it over, the defense did pretty well as a whole.

2015 should have been a breakout year for Bielema. Blame it on injuries, poor coaching, whatever you want. But that was a 10 win team that finished in the liberty bowl because they lost to Toledo and Miss State when they shouldn't have. (They also beat Ole Miss when the shouldn't have, so...)

2017 should be another team that SHOULD be pushing 10 wins. They'll have a lot of experience on both sides of the ball, and some skill positions should still be strong.

Depending on if you're an optimist, you could say Bret is on schedule. But 2015 he finished lower than he should have, no excuses.

Source of optimism though: Last year, we outplayed Toledo and lost. This year, we got outplayed by LAT but won. So...progress?

I won't disagree.  The A&M game really sticks out to me.  Toledo goes without saying. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

jgphillips3

Behind where I wanted, but in reality, I have to vote on schedule.

Hardcore Hoggy

Say what you want, but when you're in year 4 and the team is making the same mistakes they made in year 1, you are behind schedule.

porkrindjimmy

Quote from: Joe Lee Kimes Jr. on September 04, 2016, 01:16:49 pm
Spare me your tenure high horse-ness.  I've been around this board since Lanny got tired of Clay Henry on Hawgs Illustrated and decided to start Hogville.  I was around to watch the sunshine pumpers and darksiders battle it out over HDN while Porkrind Jimmy was sneaking into practices.  I couldn't remember my password after being away for a year and went with a new account.

I didn't sneak in anywhere....I walked straight up in that mofo.....

PRJ

PonderinHog


Bubba's Bruisers

What was the schedule?  I can't know where we are if I don't know what the schedule was.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Hardcore Hoggy on September 04, 2016, 05:16:06 pm
Say what you want, but when you're in year 4 and the team is making the same mistakes they made in year 1, you are behind schedule.

What mistakes are those.  All teams make mistakes.  The same ones too.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Hardcore Hoggy

Quote from: Razorbackers on September 04, 2016, 04:31:03 pm
Anyone with a brain knew this season was going to be a step down. The problem is, a lot of homerism took over (as is tradition) as we approached kickoff.

The line is not great. The QB is inexperienced. The running backs are ok. A lot of people expected Whaley to put up Collins level numbers as a freshmen which is just unreasonable. Maybe now people will realize just how special of a player Alex truly was.

The defense looked solid. LA Tech was always going to gain yards, but what mattered were the points. And when the offense didn't turn it over, the defense did pretty well as a whole.

2015 should have been a breakout year for Bielema. Blame it on injuries, poor coaching, whatever you want. But that was a 10 win team that finished in the liberty bowl because they lost to Toledo and Miss State when they shouldn't have. (They also beat Ole Miss when the shouldn't have, so...)

2017 should be another team that SHOULD be pushing 10 wins. They'll have a lot of experience on both sides of the ball, and some skill positions should still be strong.

Depending on if you're an optimist, you could say Bret is on schedule. But 2015 he finished lower than he should have, no excuses.

Source of optimism though: Last year, we outplayed Toledo and lost. This year, we got outplayed by LAT but won. So...progress?


^ this kind of post misses the point.

You can't simply say "well we expected a step down , so he's right on track"

That's BS and excuse making, there should be no step down from year 3 to year 4.

Let's just be honest. If you want a program that CONSISTENTLY wins in the SEC, you better have a program that can lose a half dozen players without "well anyone with a brain should have expected a step down this season" or you're going to have the same up and downs we saw under Nutt.

When you have, for example, a 4th year red shirt FR QB, he should be prepared to step in and take over an out of conference game like LaTech.

And the same at every position. IF Bielema is building a program built to last , there should be no step downs rather there should be a steady base with occasional step ups.

I'm not saying Bielema is failing here, he's not. But he's definitely behind schedule if we're wanting to compete for SEC titles


Hardcore Hoggy

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on September 04, 2016, 05:30:16 pm
What mistakes are those.  All teams make mistakes.  The same ones too.

Being unprepared for game 1 . There's no excuse for that.


PonderinHog

I would think a four year redshirt freshman quarterback would be an academic casualty by now.

Hardcore Hoggy

Quote from: PonderinHog on September 04, 2016, 06:09:05 pm
I would think a four year redshirt freshman quarterback would be an academic casualty by now.

Clearly I meant JR LOL

 

ErieHog

A bit ahead of schedule.

The low point certainly wasn't the John L Smith season at Arkansas; it was the offseasons preceding and following it;  BB did a very good job cobbling together his first recruiting class with a couple of very good pickups that put additional polish on a program that had turned into a turd in a hurry.

Really, we were closer to Kansas than we were to an SEC competitor in most ways when Bielema arrived.  There is a reason why the folks in the know have always referred to this as a foundation up rebuild-- because it was a gutted program that was devoid of much in the way of leadership, until he arrived on the scene.

Arkansas isn't a 'roll out of bed and win 9 games a year' program.   Nationally, we've been perceived as a 6 or 7 win program, until now-- and that perception is improving, to the point people were giving us a 50-50 shot to win 8 this year, despite massive replacement.

It'd be good to have 8 as an assumed baseline, like some other schools do-- but that takes immense time.    We're at the first major personnel roll-over, which will make this a key year for determining how much the program has really changed in terms of one of our long term weaknesses,  depth.     It may end up telling the route of the BB Era here at Arkansas,   but I don't expect us to contend for a conference title this year, and perhaps not next.     
No cause, ever, in the history of all mankind, has produced more cold-blooded tyrants, more slaughtered innocents, and more orphans than socialism with power. It surpassed, exponentially, all other systems of production in turning out the dead. The bodies are all around us. And here is the problem: No one talks about them. No one honors them. No one does penance for them. No one has committed suicide for having been an apologist for those who did this to them. No one pays for them. No one is hunted down to account for them. It is exactly what Solzhenitsyn foresaw in The Gulag Archipelago: "No, no one would have to answer. No one would be looked into." Until that happens, there is no "after socialism."

Ragnar Hogbrok

I don't know about everyone else, but I guess I'm not that football savvy.  I guess I'll just have to wait for a larger body of work from the team this season in order to evaluate where we are as a program under BB at this time.  You guys are way smarter than I.

Sorry I'm so slow.
"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." ― H.L. Mencken

Hogville prediction formula:

1.  Insert bad news prediction. A loss, a recruit going elsewhere, a coach leaving, etc.
2.  Tag "hope I'm wrong," on the end.
3a.  Enjoy a correct prediction.
3b.  Act like you're relieved you're wrong and celebrate with everyone else.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Hardcore Hoggy on September 04, 2016, 06:08:24 pm
Being unprepared for game 1 . There's no excuse for that.


Well you got me there, but that seems to be infectious this season.  Very few looked prepared. 

I don't know if the team was unprepared.  The OL?  Definitely.  Defense didn't play bad other than some poor tackling.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Ragnar Hogbrok

September 04, 2016, 06:16:33 pm #66 Last Edit: September 04, 2016, 06:32:43 pm by The Chief
Quote from: ErieHog on September 04, 2016, 06:13:00 pm
A bit ahead of schedule.

The low point certainly wasn't the John L Smith season at Arkansas; it was the offseasons preceding and following it;  BB did a very good job cobbling together his first recruiting class with a couple of very good pickups that put additional polish on a program that had turned into a turd in a hurry.

Really, we were closer to Kansas than we were to an SEC competitor in most ways when Bielema arrived.  There is a reason why the folks in the know have always referred to this as a foundation up rebuild-- because it was a gutted program that was devoid of much in the way of leadership, until he arrived on the scene.

Arkansas isn't a 'roll out of bed and win 9 games a year' program.   Nationally, we've been perceived as a 6 or 7 win program, until now-- and that perception is improving, to the point people were giving us a 50-50 shot to win 8 this year, despite massive replacement.

It'd be good to have 8 as an assumed baseline, like some other schools do-- but that takes immense time.    We're at the first major personnel roll-over, which will make this a key year for determining how much the program has really changed in terms of one of our long term weaknesses,  depth.     It may end up telling the route of the BB Era here at Arkansas,   but I don't expect us to contend for a conference title this year, and perhaps not next.     


Thank you.  I believe the jury is still out on BB, but to underestimate the state of chaos this program was in from the day after the Petrino firing, through the Slappy the Clown debacle, to the off-season BB hire is to evaluate the program under BB from a false starting point.

"Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." ― H.L. Mencken

Hogville prediction formula:

1.  Insert bad news prediction. A loss, a recruit going elsewhere, a coach leaving, etc.
2.  Tag "hope I'm wrong," on the end.
3a.  Enjoy a correct prediction.
3b.  Act like you're relieved you're wrong and celebrate with everyone else.

farmhawg

From theflyinghog

Jeff Long is sitting around drinking some fruity girl drink and reading this and realizing he was the wrong man for the job. We're crazy. We love us some damn hog football. There may be a bunch of suits sitting behind glass on gameday but dammit you better not cross us airplane-tracking, fence-jumping, hangar-breakin-entering night-vision purchasin sumbitches! We're Miracle on Markham and 4th and 25, 7 overtime-winning tear down the goalposts and drag em down Dickson because you ain't goin to the BCS, fat phil!! BRING ME A COACH WITH A PAIR AND SACRIFICE A VIRGIN CUZ ITS TIME TO FUSCING WIN!!!!

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: ErieHog on September 04, 2016, 06:13:00 pm
A bit ahead of schedule.

The low point certainly wasn't the John L Smith season at Arkansas; it was the offseasons preceding and following it;  BB did a very good job cobbling together his first recruiting class with a couple of very good pickups that put additional polish on a program that had turned into a turd in a hurry.

Really, we were closer to Kansas than we were to an SEC competitor in most ways when Bielema arrived.  There is a reason why the folks in the know have always referred to this as a foundation up rebuild-- because it was a gutted program that was devoid of much in the way of leadership, until he arrived on the scene.

Arkansas isn't a 'roll out of bed and win 9 games a year' program.   Nationally, we've been perceived as a 6 or 7 win program, until now-- and that perception is improving, to the point people were giving us a 50-50 shot to win 8 this year, despite massive replacement.

It'd be good to have 8 as an assumed baseline, like some other schools do-- but that takes immense time.    We're at the first major personnel roll-over, which will make this a key year for determining how much the program has really changed in terms of one of our long term weaknesses,  depth.     It may end up telling the route of the BB Era here at Arkansas,   but I don't expect us to contend for a conference title this year, and perhaps not next.     


Hear, hear.  Especially the depth part.  This program hasn't had real depth, actual talented depth, since, well, it seems forever.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Hardcore Hoggy

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on September 04, 2016, 06:14:25 pm
Well you got me there, but that seems to be infectious this season.  Very few looked prepared. 

I don't know if the team was unprepared.  The OL?  Definitely.  Defense didn't play bad other than some poor tackling.

Oh, the defense, I don't know whether that is poor scheming, or lack of trust in our players. We gave their receivers such a large cushion I could have completed 50% of my passes.


Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Hardcore Hoggy on September 04, 2016, 06:28:10 pm
Oh, the defense, I don't know whether that is poor scheming, or lack of trust in our players. We gave their receivers such a large cushion I could have completed 50% of my passes.



Didn't pay much attention to the cushion...don't recall it being that huge.  Just know we didn't give up any big plays through the air other than the few extra YAC due to poor tackling.  At least none that I recall.

Our secondary isn't very talented, so I presume coaches are attempting to mask that as much as possible.  LA tech isn't creme puff either, but has some major conference talented athletes running the spread.  We didn't fair too badly considering our historical crappy play against the spread.

If OL and defensive tackling measurably improve this Saturday, TCU will have their hands full.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

hawgrunner


Hardcore Hoggy

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on September 04, 2016, 06:39:32 pm
Didn't pay much attention to the cushion...don't recall it being that huge.  Just know we didn't give up any big plays through the air other than the few extra YAC due to poor tackling.  At least none that I recall.

Our secondary isn't very talented, so I presume coaches are attempting to mask that as much as possible.  LA tech isn't creme puff either, but has some major conference talented athletes running the spread.  We didn't fair too badly considering our historical crappy play against the spread.

If OL and defensive tackling measurably improve this Saturday, TCU will have their hands full.

I believe you're correct. I believe our defensive backs are being taught to play back to prevent the big play b/c they don't have the talent to play close and shut down receivers, and THAT is a sign that we are behind where we should be. In season 4 we absolutely should have at least one DB who can stick to our opponents best receiver and shut him down, most SEC teams have TWO such DBs. Some have 3 , or even 4.

Peter Porker

Quote from: gchamblee on September 04, 2016, 01:09:04 pm
I knew before I even opened this thread that the OP would only have 2 or 3 posts total.

Curious who they were before they were banned the last time they were on here.
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

 

Peter Porker

Quote from: porkrindjimmy on September 04, 2016, 05:19:00 pm
I didn't sneak in anywhere....I walked straight up in that mofo.....

PRJ

Look who comes out of the woodwork....
Quote from: Peter Porker on January 08, 2014, 04:03:21 pm
Notice he says your boy instead of "our coach". Very telling.

I'm not worried. If he recruits like he did here Louisville will fire him in about 5 years.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Hardcore Hoggy on September 04, 2016, 06:47:45 pm
I believe you're correct. I believe our defensive backs are being taught to play back to prevent the big play b/c they don't have the talent to play close and shut down receivers, and THAT is a sign that we are behind where we should be. In season 4 we absolutely should have at least one DB who can stick to our opponents best receiver and shut him down, most SEC teams have TWO such DBs. Some have 3 , or even 4.

I'm considering schedule based on the big picture, not just a single position.

I believed 2015 should have been the year that we showed obvious overall improvement.  I think we did...the slow start notwithstanding.  We were actually 1 or 2 wins better than we ended up, but we were clearly an improving team.  So I was pleased with 8-5 for 2015. 

And I expected 2016 to be a bit of a step back based on the offensive personnel loses.  I was particularly concerned about, gasp, the OL.  the last couple years of OL recruiting have been mediocre...especially in numbers.  We only signed 6 OL in the last 2 classes, and 2 of them are JUCO's.  7 if you count Froholt moving to OL.  That pretty low, and it's created a hole in the talent on OL.  it will get fixed, but will take some time.

The incoming class needs to focus on signing OL, DE, and DB talent...lots of it.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

factchecker

Quote from: Hardcore Hoggy on September 04, 2016, 06:47:45 pm
most SEC teams have TWO such DBs. Some have 3 , or even 4.

Really?  Because Ole Miss and Mississippi State didn't have any against us last year.
WORK FOR IT
PLAN ON IT
EARN IT
OMAHOGS

daprospecta

Quote from: Razorbackers on September 04, 2016, 04:31:03 pm
Anyone with a brain knew this season was going to be a step down. The problem is, a lot of homerism took over (as is tradition) as we approached kickoff.

The line is not great. The QB is inexperienced. The running backs are ok. A lot of people expected Whaley to put up Collins level numbers as a freshmen which is just unreasonable. Maybe now people will realize just how special of a player Alex truly was.

The defense looked solid. LA Tech was always going to gain yards, but what mattered were the points. And when the offense didn't turn it over, the defense did pretty well as a whole.

2015 should have been a breakout year for Bielema. Blame it on injuries, poor coaching, whatever you want. But that was a 10 win team that finished in the liberty bowl because they lost to Toledo and Miss State when they shouldn't have. (They also beat Ole Miss when the shouldn't have, so...)

2017 should be another team that SHOULD be pushing 10 wins. They'll have a lot of experience on both sides of the ball, and some skill positions should still be strong.

Depending on if you're an optimist, you could say Bret is on schedule. But 2015 he finished lower than he should have, no excuses.

Source of optimism though: Last year, we outplayed Toledo and lost. This year, we got outplayed by LAT but won. So...progress?
When do you start to put blame on the coach? We've had time to prepare a quarterback after Brandon's departure.  Kirkland was unexpected but not Treatola.  I'm starting to think that CBB is a great at everything but the X's O's.  I feel like he may be average in that area.  You can still win big with average coaching when you have great talent.  I feel like coaching is exposed a bit more when you have above average-good talent like our team does. 

Kevin

All you had to do was look at how the classes were lining up to know this season was going to be a rebuilding year on offense

Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.<br />James 4:7
Reject Every Kind Of Evil 1 Thessalonians 5:22

daprospecta

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on September 04, 2016, 06:59:53 pm
I'm considering schedule based on the big picture, not just a single position.

I believed 2015 should have been the year that we showed obvious overall improvement.  I think we did...the slow start notwithstanding.  We were actually 1 or 2 wins better than we ended up, but we were clearly an improving team.  So I was pleased with 8-5 for 2015. 

And I expected 2016 to be a bit of a step back based on the offensive personnel loses.  I was particularly concerned about, gasp, the OL.  the last couple years of OL recruiting have been mediocre...especially in numbers.  We only signed 6 OL in the last 2 classes, and 2 of them are JUCO's.  7 if you count Froholt moving to OL.  That pretty low, and it's created a hole in the talent on OL.  it will get fixed, but will take some time.

The incoming class needs to focus on signing OL, DE, and DB talent...lots of it.
You mention issues Bubba but not once did you mention the coaching staff and how recruiting is completely on them.  I'm not calling for a coaching change but how hard is it for our fan base to want our coaches to be accountable for the situation they created? OL is lacking? It's year 4.  They've had time to recruit and remedy it.  DB's still playing ten yards back?  It's year 4 once again, the coaching staff has had time to fix that issue.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: daprospecta on September 04, 2016, 07:01:53 pm
When do you start to put blame on the coach? We've had time to prepare a quarterback after Brandon's departure.  Kirkland was unexpected but not Treatola.  I'm starting to think that CBB is a great at everything but the X's O's.  I feel like he may be average in that area.  You can still win big with average coaching when you have great talent.  I feel like coaching is exposed a bit more when you have above average-good talent like our team does. 

I suspect there's no real misunderstanding about BB and X's and O's.  I don't think he's that guy.  He's a CEO type letting the assistants run their positions.  Which is fine if you have top flight X's and O's assistants...and players.  I think at least Enos fits that bill.

BB is old school.  He wants to beat you into oblivion.  Crush you physically and emotionally...You and all your razzle dazzle, circus acts.  We will see how that works.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: daprospecta on September 04, 2016, 07:05:12 pm
You mention issues Bubba but not once did you mention the coaching staff and how recruiting is completely on them.  I'm not calling for a coaching change but how hard is it for our fan base to want our coaches to be accountable for the situation they created? OL is lacking? It's year 4.  They've had time to recruit and remedy it.  DB's still playing ten yards back?  It's year 4 once again, the coaching staff has had time to fix that issue.

How ironic, because most here perceive me as some doom and gloom guy. 

But yes, recruiting is absolutely on the staff, but, and here's where the homers will pigeon hole me into the doom and gloom category, it's fricking hard to recruit to Fayetteville.  I know all the middle age white guys on this board can't possibly understand that, but BB ain't recruiting me and the rest of the middle aged white guys.  He's recruiting, by and large, the 17 year old AA living 500+ miles from campus.  Teenagers who mostly grew up in a world very different than NWA, gasp.  And he's selling a program that's largely been mediocre and irrelevant during their young 17 years.  It will take lots of time to turn that ship.

The OL recruiting has definitely been disappointing.  We don't appear to have much depth there at all.  QB, RB, WR, DT, and LB is promising, though.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Hardcore Hoggy

Quote from: daprospecta on September 04, 2016, 07:01:53 pm
When do you start to put blame on the coach? We've had time to prepare a quarterback after Brandon's departure.  Kirkland was unexpected but not Treatola.  I'm starting to think that CBB is a great at everything but the X's O's.  I feel like he may be average in that area.  You can still win big with average coaching when you have great talent.  I feel like coaching is exposed a bit more when you have above average-good talent like our team does. 

I hate to tell you this, but Xs and Os mean very little in big time college football.

Player talent + motivation beats Xs and Os , every time.




ArkansasI

My frustration with the Hogs is our seeming inability to overpower programs that have far less resources. Bret's teams have occasionally frustrated me against conference opponents - and sometimes made me very proud against the SEC.  But too often Arkansas (pre-Bret to the present) has failed to dominate when it should.

This affects enthusiasm. You can sense it in the stadium - fewer fans show up for these games and the team fails to respond.  The Hogs need to manhandle rent a wins.

gchamblee

Quote from: DiamondHogFan on September 04, 2016, 02:32:11 pm
It's year 4.  The progress has been trending upward every year.  Every "rebuild" is different.  There is a night and day difference between where the program was when CBB took over to where it is now.

The immature instant gratification crowd is praying for his failure and pounce on every opportunity to be critical of the man. Fortunately, those in charge of the program are smart enough to ignore such stupidity.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: ArkansasI on September 04, 2016, 07:23:00 pm
My frustration with the Hogs is our seeming inability to overpower programs that have far less resources. Bret's teams have occasionally frustrated me against conference opponents - and sometimes made me very proud against the SEC.  But too often Arkansas (pre-Bret to the present) has failed to dominate when it should.

This affects enthusiasm. You can sense it in the stadium - fewer fans show up for these games and the team fails to respond.  The Hogs need to manhandle rent a wins.

Lack of overall talent in the program for years.  Something that will take several years to reverse.  BB seems to be the first coach in a while to show consistent signs of breaking through.  But He doesn't have the luxury of available talent and football tradition that all his counterparts have.  It will be a grind.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Cinco de Hogo

Quote from: gchamblee on September 04, 2016, 07:26:32 pm
The immature instant gratification crowd is praying for his failure and pounce on every opportunity to be critical of the man. Fortunately, those in charge of the program are smart enough to ignore such stupidity.

Are you Brets pool boy?  I can understand you defense of him, wouldn't want to lose THAT job!

Year four is instant gratification...right.

Seems like ANY expectation a fans has is wrong to you,

Hardcore Hoggy

Quote from: ArkansasI on September 04, 2016, 07:23:00 pm
My frustration with the Hogs is our seeming inability to overpower programs that have far less resources. Bret's teams have occasionally frustrated me against conference opponents - and sometimes made me very proud against the SEC.  But too often Arkansas (pre-Bret to the present) has failed to dominate when it should.

This affects enthusiasm. You can sense it in the stadium - fewer fans show up for these games and the team fails to respond.  The Hogs need to manhandle rent a wins.

To be fair, the average fan simply doesn't understand that the difference between a La Tech and an Arkansas is not as great as everyone would like to think.

just like in the game thread when the announcer made a comment about a player like Agim usually going to a top tier program and the posters in that thread went nuts "what is she saying Arkansas isn't a top tier school? They hate us " etc etc well Arkansas is NOT a top tier school.

Bobby Petrino had some great years here because he happened to coincide with some GREAT in state talent + a transfer QB +  a few breaks, not because he's some great coach who made Arkansas into a top program. GIven a few more years, his recruiting would have caught up with him.

A REALISTIC goal for our program each year should be 8-9 wins, and that includes beating some teams we should lose to and losing to some teams we should beat. Expecting to DOMINATE a program like La Tech, is unreasonable.

Toledo, or someone like that, on the other hand...............

ArkansasI

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on September 04, 2016, 07:16:43 pm
How ironic, because most here perceive me as some doom and gloom guy. 

But yes, recruiting is absolutely on the staff, but, and here's where the homers will pigeon hole me into the doom and gloom category, it's fricking hard to recruit to Fayetteville.  I know all the middle age white guys on this board can't possibly understand that, but BB ain't recruiting me and the rest of the middle aged white guys.  He's recruiting, by and large, the 17 year old AA living 500+ miles from campus.  Teenagers who mostly grew up in a world very different than NWA, gasp.  And he's selling a program that's largely been mediocre and irrelevant during their young 17 years.  It will take lots of time to turn that ship.

The OL recruiting has definitely been disappointing.  We don't appear to have much depth there at all.  QB, RB, WR, DT, and LB is promising, though.
I understand where you're coming from. But have you ever been to Norman?

Besides, what frustrates me has more to do with our failure to beat or dominate teams from Ruston, Louisiana, Toledo, Ohio, and similar locations that might be tough to recruit.

factchecker

Quote from: ArkansasI on September 04, 2016, 07:23:00 pm
This affects enthusiasm. You can sense it in the stadium - fewer fans show up for these games and the team fails to respond.  The Hogs need to manhandle rent a wins.

#1 LaTech isn't a rent-a-win.  We cut them a check so we don't have to play a return game at their place not for a guarentee win.  Why people don't understand this concept is beyond me.

#2 UTEP, Nicholls State (one of the highest scoring games by Razorback team), Tennessee Martin, Northern Illinois, UAB say hello.

#3  Yesterdays attendance wasn't bad seeing that LaTech returned a good portion of their tickets.  Theyd didn't bring their band so their was a hug hole in their visitor section.  The only sections not filled were the upper east, 111 and the depending on the time the student section.

#4  Petrino struggled with a horrible G5 program his 4th year.  Beating a 3-9 Troy by 10 is not dominating.
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Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: ArkansasI on September 04, 2016, 07:34:14 pm
I understand where you're coming from. But have you ever been to Norman?

Besides, what frustrates me has more to do with our failure to beat or dominate teams from Ruston, Louisiana, Toledo, Ohio, and similar locations that might be tough to recruit.

I agree, but OU is vastly superior in football tradition, and they've had a strangle hold on TX recruiting for years. 

2 other things...

1.  I think the poor condition of the program when BB took over is underestimated.  We were practically void of SEC talent.

2.  Our current level of talent is over exaggerated.  We have some talented players, no doubt, but not lots.  And certainly still lacking in talented depth.  This is for reasons I've opined in the above posts. 

Just opinion, of course.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

factchecker

Quote from: ArkansasI on September 04, 2016, 07:34:14 pm
I understand where you're coming from. But have you ever been to Norman?

Besides, what frustrates me has more to do with our failure to beat or dominate teams from Ruston, Louisiana, Toledo, Ohio, and similar locations that might be tough to recruit.

Dominated a team from Baton Rouge the last two years and Ole Miss in 2014.  Dominated Southern Miss, NIU, UAB, Nicholls, Texas Tech (2014), UTEP, and Tenn-Martin.
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ArkansasI

On the other side - I love Bret's integrity. LOVE IT.

I love that his players seem to love playing for him. I love that he has huge expectations - will go anywhere for a player.

I'm all in with the program. I just think weak games against lower tier programs show kinks in the armour. And this is where I vent. :)

Hardcore Hoggy

Quote from: factchecker on September 04, 2016, 07:45:39 pm
Dominated a team from Baton Rouge the last two years and Ole Miss in 2014.  Dominated Southern Miss, NIU, UAB, Nicholls, Texas Tech (2014), UTEP, and Tenn-Martin.

with talent that is unusual for Arkansas.

You guys overestimate Bobby Petrino as a coach.

Take this for what it's worthy, if he somehow ended up at LSU, he'd mirror what Les Miles has done there.

Likewise, put Bielema at LSU and he'd win 10 games a season too.

Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: factchecker on September 04, 2016, 07:45:39 pm
Dominated a team from Baton Rouge the last two years and Ole Miss in 2014.  Dominated Southern Miss, NIU, UAB, Nicholls, Texas Tech (2014), UTEP, and Tenn-Martin.

Which reminds me, it's unfortunate LSU lost yesterday.  Probably ensures Les is gone.  That's bad for us, because I'm certain the replacement will solve the QB riddle.  We've dominated them the last 2 years, because they essentially didn't field a QB.  we should do it again this year too. 
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

factchecker

Quote from: Hardcore Hoggy on September 04, 2016, 07:49:51 pm
with talent that is unusual for Arkansas.

You guys overestimate Bobby Petrino as a coach.

Take this for what it's worthy, if he somehow ended up at LSU, he'd mirror what Les Miles has done there.

Likewise, put Bielema at LSU and he'd win 10 games a season too.

You can get all pissy if you want to but people say that we never dominate anyone and I just gave plenty examples of big time wins against P5 and "cupcakes" alike.
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Bubba's Bruisers

Quote from: Hardcore Hoggy on September 04, 2016, 07:49:51 pm
with talent that is unusual for Arkansas.

You guys overestimate Bobby Petrino as a coach.

Take this for what it's worthy, if he somehow ended up at LSU, he'd mirror what Les Miles has done there.

Likewise, put Bielema at LSU and he'd win 10 games a season too.

I'm certain BP could improve on what Les has done in the last few years. BP would have competent QB play, and it would make tons of difference.  So would BB.  So would just about any sane coach.
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and her offspring; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his heal.

Genesis 3:15

Hardcore Hoggy

Quote from: factchecker on September 04, 2016, 07:52:02 pm
You can get all pissy if you want to but people say that we never dominate anyone and I just gave plenty examples of big time wins against P5 and "cupcakes" alike.

I don't think I was pissy at all. If it came across that way, I apologize.

I was merely pointing out that Petrino benefited from an unusual coincidence at Arkansas. I mean the combination of the Wynne boys + Mallet just happened to coincide with Petrino? That isn't luck that Arkansas football usually has.


factchecker

Quote from: Bubba's Bruisers on September 04, 2016, 07:53:49 pm
I'm certain BP could improve on what Les has done in the last few years. BP would have competent QB play, and it would make tons of difference.  So would BB.  So would just about any sane coach.

Bobby Petrino would have LSU in the national championship game within a year.  Coach Bielema would get them there eventually as well.  I think a coach who runs a spread/no huddle would be dangerous there due to the athletes they have on the roster. 

Les Miles runs a pro style offense which is supposed to be built around great QB play..... they don't have the QB to run that system.
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Hogdomer

Quote from: factchecker on September 04, 2016, 07:35:26 pm
#1 LaTech isn't a rent-a-win.  We cut them a check so we don't have to play a return game at their place not for a guarentee win.  Why people don't understand this concept is beyond me.

#2 UTEP, Nicholls State (one of the highest scoring games by Razorback team), Tennessee Martin, Northern Illinois, UAB say hello.

#3  Yesterdays attendance wasn't bad seeing that LaTech returned a good portion of their tickets.  Theyd didn't bring their band so their was a hug hole in their visitor section.  The only sections not filled were the upper east, 111 and the depending on the time the student section.

#4  Petrino struggled with a horrible G5 program his 4th year.  Beating a 3-9 Troy by 10 is not dominating.

Northern Illinois was better than that La Tech team we played yesterday.  We were just a much, much better team in 2014.  Especially on OL and defense.