is it just me or do we need to get some more DE's?

[presidenthog]

in MMQB there is a thread about bell at TE and I'm getting hammered for my displeasure of him switching positions.

now look I understand we are deep this year, but we have like 3-4 seniors graduating at DE this year and by the roster I only count 5 (6 including bell) behind them for next year

agim-fr
roesler-rs Jr
beanum-jr (not even playing with team right now)
daytrieon dean-rs fr
bell (if he is moved back)
Derrick graham- RS fr (LB that outgrew his position, probably a good thing he can't outgrow DE and forced to move inside)

2 of those graduate next year. I feel like a hole is forming at this position. we already had pass rush issues last year and it feels like we need to hit it out of the park on some guys this year or we will be thin on bodies and talent.

am I wrong in this assesment?

edit: forgot graham

also wanted to add that agim and the other "DE" will probably move inside.

[Slimac4]

You're missing Graham, TJ Smith, and Jonathan Marshall. We'll be alright with Bell staying at DE or moving to TE.

[HogWildBison2011]

You're missing Graham, TJ Smith, and Jonathan Marshall. We'll be alright with Bell staying at DE or moving to TE.

TJ Smith is moving inside at the 3 technique I believe. Marshall will more than likely redshirt this year but that dude is a baller.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

We will need de's and I'm sure it will be addressed. You're not wrong in that. You're also not wrong in your disappointment with the Bell move. The kid is a premium talent at a premium position and Thats something we don't have a ton of. Here's hoping the TE move is just "experimental" as they indicated

[ricepig]

We will need de's and I'm sure it will be addressed. You're not wrong in that. You're also not wrong in your disappointment with the Bell move. The kid is a premium talent at a premium position and Thats something we don't have a ton of. Here's hoping the TE move is just "experimental" as they indicated

Wouldn't he be in the rotation at DE if they thought he could contribute this year?

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Wouldn't he be in the rotation at DE if they thought he could contribute this year?

One would hope

[RebelW]

I don't see Dean on the outside. I think a big Time JUCO guy or 2 and we will be fine which will give our young guys time to develop

[Pork Twain]

Is this the Bell thread part II?  As usual, there is a lot of assuming going on and second guessing.  Who knows how he actually looks in practice at DE and TE and who knows it the move is just for now to get him on the field or if it is for good.  Nobody on Hogville, for sure.  Some are acting like he is a can't miss 5* DE here and maybe one day he will be great there but for now the staff is just looking for a way to get a talented guy on the field.

[Wildhog]

OP is right.  Need to get some DE's in this class.

[ricepig]

OP is right.  Need to get some DE's in this class.

We need DE's every class, who do we have a legitimate shot at, any idea?

[Hawgar The Horrible]

We need DE's every class, who do we have a legitimate shot at, any idea?

About 14 offers out to DE's according to 247. None of them are winking back.

[ricepig]

About 14 offers out to DE's according to 247. None of them are winking back.

Yeah, I'd seen that, I was just wondering if there hadn't been a little more flirting......

[bigdaddyhawg]

in MMQB there is a thread about bell at TE and I'm getting hammered for my displeasure of him switching positions.

now look I understand we are deep this year, but we have like 3-4 seniors graduating at DE this year and by the roster I only count 4 (5 including bell) behind them for next year

agim-fr
roesler-rs Jr
beanum-jr (not even playing with team right now)
daytrieon dean-rs fr
bell (if he is moved back)

2 of those graduate next year. I feel like a hole is forming at this position. we already had pass rush issues last year and it feels like we need to hit it out of the park on some guys this year or we will be thin on bodies and talent.

am I wrong in this assesment?

Is there anything that's been said or done that would indicate they AREN'T going to add more DE's in this class?

Or are you just so far ahead of our coaching staff that you need to point out their next move?

[Pork Twain]

Is there anything that's been said or done that would indicate they AREN'T going to add more DE's in this class?

Or are you just so far ahead of our coaching staff that you need to point out their next move?

Exactly

[Wildhog]

We need DE's every class, who do we have a legitimate shot at, any idea?

I'd definitely keep an eye on that Alfred Bryant kid out of Manvel that we offered recently.

[Wildhog]

Is there anything that's been said or done that would indicate they AREN'T going to add more DE's in this class?

Or are you just so far ahead of our coaching staff that you need to point out their next move?

I don't see any problem with pointing out future depth concerns.  I haven't seen anyone say that the coaches aren't planning on filling the need for DE's.  Just that they're a priority for this class, which they are.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

Is there anything that's been said or done that would indicate they AREN'T going to add more DE's in this class?

Or are you just so far ahead of our coaching staff that you need to point out their next move?

Its just message board discussion. No one being unreasonable. Expressing concern over a highly talented, highly ranked de being moved to te makes sense. Regardless of who we add in the upcoming class, I hope Bell finds his way back to de and makes the impact everyone expected

[PorkRinds]

Its just message board discussion. No one being unreasonable. Expressing concern over a highly talented, highly ranked de being moved to te makes sense. Regardless of who we add in the upcoming class, I hope Bell finds his way back to de and makes the impact everyone expected

I just hope he ends up at the position that he's best at, and whichever helps the team win. 

[The_Boot_stops_here]

I just hope he ends up at the position that he's best at, and whichever helps the team win. 

And Bell fulfilling his potential at de would most certainly help the team win. Which is what we're all hoping for

[PorkRinds]

And Bell fulfilling his potential at de would most certainly help the team win. Which is what we're all hoping for

And Bell fulfilling his potential at TE would most certainly help the team win. Which is what we're all hoping for.

[Wildhog]

Everyone fulfilling their potential wherever they're playing would most certainly help the team win.  Which is what we're all hoping for.

[bigdaddyhawg]

I don't see any problem with pointing out future depth concerns.  I haven't seen anyone say that the coaches aren't planning on filling the need for DE's.  Just that they're a priority for this class, which they are.

Its just message board discussion. No one being unreasonable. Expressing concern over a highly talented, highly ranked de being moved to te makes sense.

And my question was not out of line, either. 

[The_Boot_stops_here]

And Bell fulfilling his potential at TE would most certainly help the team win. Which is what we're all hoping for.

DE is a premium position. Now, in Bielema's offense, TE is a premium position as well. But I'll take my chances finding great depth at TE any day over DE. When we recruit a young man to play DE who was as highly thought of as Bell was at that position, its in the best interest of the program that he excels at that position.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

And my question was not out of line, either. 

It wasn't your question. More your smarta** comment that followed it

[PorkRinds]

DE is a premium position. Now, in Bielema's offense, TE is a premium position as well. But I'll take my chances finding great depth at TE any day over DE. When we recruit a young man to play DE who was as highly thought of as Bell was at that position, its in the best interest of the program that he excels at that position.

Disagree.  No matter what position they are recruited to play, the best interest of the program is to put him where he can make the most impact.  Evidently the coaches think that's at TE right now.  If he goes back to DE, it will be DE.  But he was highly recruited and well thought of at both positions. 

[bigdaddyhawg]

It wasn't your question. More your smarta** comment that followed it

Okay, but that smarta** comment was addressing the attitude he displayed that was the basis of his entire position.

Maybe I read his post differently than most of you.

[bigdaddyhawg]

Disagree.  No matter what position they are recruited to play, the best interest of the program is to put him where he can make the most impact.  Evidently the coaches think that's at TE right now.  If he goes back to DE, it will be DE.  But he was highly recruited and well thought of at both positions. 

I see this as a move similar to CBB's moving Kendrick Jackson last fall.

Kendrick was expected by many to coming in and at least provide depth at LB.  But CBB saw the need was greater at FB, and IMO KJ made a difference over there last fall.

Now he's been moved back to LB, and CBB said that's where he'll stay.  Did CBB "waste" a year of KJ's eligibility last year?  How much PT was he going to get at LB last fall?  He got quite a bit at FB, and even though it's on the other side of the ball, that experience should help KJ be further along that where he'd be practicing at LB all fall.

So what was lost for KJ?  I don't see the loss, but see the gain for the team and for KJ.

It's been pointed out CBB has spoken about the need we have for point of attack blocking from our TE's, and that he's not seeing what he wants to see from that group in that area.  And I believe it's an important area for our running game, and maybe even in pass pro as well.

If CBB sees that JB would not contribute right now at DE, but MIGHT provide important help at TE, then we have the possibility of another Kendrick Jackson fall for Jemario.

Why is that such a dire situation?  JB might very well go back to DE next year and end up starring there for the last three years of eligibility.

I don't see the downside.

[Wildhog]

Okay, but that smarta** comment was addressing the attitude he displayed that was the basis of his entire position.

Maybe I read his post differently than most of you.

I didn't notice any particular attitude in the OP.  Seemed pretty reasonable to me.

Maybe I'm missing something?

[Wildhog]

I see this as a move similar to CBB's moving Kendrick Jackson last fall.

Kendrick was expected by many to coming in and at least provide depth at LB.  But CBB saw the need was greater at FB, and IMO KJ made a difference over there last fall.

Now he's been moved back to LB, and CBB said that's where he'll stay.  Did CBB "waste" a year of KJ's eligibility last year?  How much PT was he going to get at LB last fall?  He got quite a bit at FB, and even though it's on the other side of the ball, that experience should help KJ be further along that where he'd be practicing at LB all fall.

So what was lost for KJ?  I don't see the loss, but see the gain for the team and for KJ.

It's been pointed out CBB has spoken about the need we have for point of attack blocking from our TE's, and that he's not seeing what he wants to see from that group in that area.  And I believe it's an important area for our running game, and maybe even in pass pro as well.

If CBB sees that JB would not contribute right now at DE, but MIGHT provide important help at TE, then we have the possibility of another Kendrick Jackson fall for Jemario.

Why is that such a dire situation?  JB might very well go back to DE next year and end up starring there for the last three years of eligibility.

I don't see the downside.

It's not a "dire" situation.  If he can help at TE this year and move back to DE next year, then that's great.

But we lose a ton off the DL after this season, and won't have a lot of depth at DE next year.  JB staying on offense highlights that lack of depth even more.

Either way, I'm confident the staff will address the need at DE in this class.  Probably going to need a juco in the group, too.

[Pig in the Pokey]

And Bell fulfilling his potential at TE would most certainly help the team win. Which is what we're all hoping for.

ding ding ding. Have you be taking smart pills or something?

[presidenthog]

there is a reason we was on so many DE'S last year. cater, kier thomas, and whoever else we was flirting with late.

I forgot about the OSU flip. that dude is a really big boy. 270 something If I'm not mistaken. more than likely at that size he will end up being another 3 tech move like TJ smith.

we are bringing in huge DE'S, and that's great, unless they can't get to the QB.

[PorkRinds]

ding ding ding. Have you be taking smart pills or something?

Nah, you just finally caught on to my greatness! 

[presidenthog]

also on bell. the only reason I'm upset about him moving is he will be needed in the 2 deep next year and I would prefer him getting those reps to help now. unless the plan is to bank on some true frosh for depth.

[PorkRinds]

also on bell. the only reason I'm upset about him moving is he will be needed in the 2 deep next year and I would prefer him getting those reps to help now. unless the plan is to bank on some true frosh for depth.

Again, you're welcome to your opinion.  But you have to understand what you're saying seems like you think you know better than the coaches.  You don't.  You have no idea if he will be needed on the 2 deep at TE or DE.  Only the coaches do.  So yeah, it's fine for you to guess.  But it's also fine for people to second guess your second guessing.

[Wildhog]

Again, you're welcome to your opinion.  But you have to understand what you're saying seems like you think you know better than the coaches.  You don't.  You have no idea if he will be needed on the 2 deep at TE or DE.  Only the coaches do.  So yeah, it's fine for you to guess.  But it's also fine for people to second guess your second guessing.

After this season, the only DE's we'll have (that will FOR SURE play DE) are:

Beanum
Roesler
Graham

Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but we'll be extremely thin if we don't address it in this class (which I'm sure we will).  With that said, I understand why some are apprehensive about the JB move.

[PorkRinds]

After this season, the only DE's we'll have (that will FOR SURE play DE) are:

Beanum
Roesler
Graham

Maybe I'm forgetting someone, but we'll be extremely thin if we don't address it in this class (which I'm sure we will).  With that said, I understand why some are apprehensive about the JB move.

I just think the whole "apprehensive about the move" thing is short sighted.  These coaches know what their needs are.  They know where players are best suited to make an impact.  If they move him to TE for good, that means they needed a TE worse than they needed a DE, or he wasn't going to make it at DE for some reason.  It's fine to second guess, but when it comes off as seemingly feeling like you know better than the coaches do, you can likely expect push back.  You're also forgetting Agim.  I believe there was a kid from FS Northside that was a DE as well.  His name escapes me though.

[Slimac4]

OP is right.  Need to get some DE's in this class.

We won't ever have a class we don't need at least a couple DEs.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Need DE's and OT's.  Seem to be off to a good start on the latter.

[The_Boot_stops_here]

How about this...if the coaches feel like he is not going to contribute as hoped at DE and therefore feel like moving to TE would be the best chance for him to make an impact, ok.  Who wouldn't accept that.  However, my disappointment would be that it didn't work out at DE.  Again, it's a premium position and most thought Bell had the premium talent to make an impact there.  If it's not to be, that's not necessarily on the coaches, it's mostly on Bell.  That doesn't make it any less disappointing and it does create more of a need at DE for the upcoming class.

[Wildhog]

We won't ever have a class we don't need at least a couple DEs.

We signed two "DE's" last year, and they'll likely both play inside.

[Wildhog]

I just think the whole "apprehensive about the move" thing is short sighted.  These coaches know what their needs are.  They know where players are best suited to make an impact.  If they move him to TE for good, that means they needed a TE worse than they needed a DE, or he wasn't going to make it at DE for some reason.  It's fine to second guess, but when it comes off as seemingly feeling like you know better than the coaches do, you can likely expect push back.  You're also forgetting Agim.  I believe there was a kid from FS Northside that was a DE as well.  His name escapes me though.

Agim has been playing inside for the most part, and I think Daytreion Dean will play inside, as well.

I certainly wouldn't forget Sosa.

[Bubba's Bruisers]

This is clear evidence that we're transitioning to the 34 defensive front.








I kid, I kid... 

[Bubba's Bruisers]

Agim has been playing inside for the most part, and I think Daytreion Dean will play inside, as well.

I certainly wouldn't forget Sosa.

Probably so, and Marshall looks to have the makeup for inside too.  If Bell, Smith, Agim and Marshall all end up inside, then we have gone 2 classes in a row without getting a DE...can't remember what class Beanum was in, so I may not be accounting for him.  I suspect a couple of those names may be DE's yet.

[Pig in the Pokey]

I mean, don't you ALWAYS sign 2 + DEs a year? I would.

[Wildhog]

Probably so, and Marshall looks to have the makeup for inside too.  If Bell, Smith, Agim and Marshall all end up inside, then we have gone 2 classes in a row without getting a DE...can't remember what class Beanum was in, so I may not be accounting for him.  I suspect a couple of those names may be DE's yet.

Beanum was part of the '13 class, so you'd be correct.

[Exit Pursued by a Boar]

Perhaps the example of Kendrick Jackson is instructive.

It could be a case of getting him on the field for now, and putting back at DE later.  I am less concerned about what this move says about our guys at DE than what it might say about our guys a TE, all of whom were highly regarded.

EFBAB

[presidenthog]

we need to stop recruiting DE'S that weigh 270 coming out of high school. we need to get guys with good frames that weigh about 245 and can run like deer. add 25 lbs to them and they will be just right. that or we need to get a guy that only weighs like 260 after we get ahold of him that is an elite pass rusher  (now I know Weight doesn't matter entirely but usually smaller guys run faster. I'm just spit balling) and use him situationally on 3rd downs.

we have to get a pass rush. we play alot of spread teams and we have to rush the passer. A guy who can beat a LT and hit the QB is a premium guy. Wildhog is right. I love sosa but at 290 (even though the guy ran a 4.5 or 4.6 in high school) he might get moved inside unless he gets used to the weight and becomes the next watt.

we need true pass rushers. not just these big run stopping DE'S or guys we keep moving to the inside. we don't only play lsu and bama. we need guys who can beat A&M too.

I know all of you say I'm "second guessing the coaches" but sit back and use your head. if we get nothing but guys that weigh 290 that's basically DT'S and we will get killed in the quick game every year.

Derrick graham out growing his position might be a savior really because he will not weigh 290 lbs even if he tries.

[presidenthog]

Probably so, and Marshall looks to have the makeup for inside too.  If Bell, Smith, Agim and Marshall all end up inside, then we have gone 2 classes in a row without getting a DE...can't remember what class Beanum was in, so I may not be accounting for him.  I suspect a couple of those names may be DE's yet.

ding ding ding. this guy gets it. bell will not move inside. he came in at like 225. I doubt he grows to 3 tech size.

[secneahog]

Will be a great recruiting pitch to some elite DEs in the 2017 class.

[PorkRinds]

we need to stop recruiting DE'S that weigh 270 coming out of high school. we need to get guys with good frames that weigh about 245 and can run like deer. add 25 lbs to them and they will be just right. that or we need to get a guy that only weighs like 260 after we get ahold of him that is an elite pass rusher  (now I know Weight doesn't matter entirely but usually smaller guys run faster. I'm just spit balling) and use him situationally on 3rd downs.

we have to get a pass rush. we play alot of spread teams and we have to rush the passer. A guy who can beat a LT and hit the QB is a premium guy. Wildhog is right. I love sosa but at 290 (even though the guy ran a 4.5 or 4.6 in high school) he might get moved inside unless he gets used to the weight and becomes the next watt.

we need true pass rushers. not just these big run stopping DE'S or guys we keep moving to the inside. we don't only play lsu and bama. we need guys who can beat A&M too.

I know all of you say I'm "second guessing the coaches" but sit back and use your head. if we get nothing but guys that weigh 290 that's basically DT'S and we will get killed in the quick game every year.

Derrick graham out growing his position might be a savior really because he will not weigh 290 lbs even if he tries.

That darn coach B. Just never using his head like he should.