Danny West reported a recruit was told DWRRS would expand to 90k capacity

[go hogues]

When do you see that 4K will rolled out for espn ?

Probably sooner than is fair for all the people who JUST GOT THROUGH buying their 55'' and 70" 1080 tv's.

I work in the film industry and stuff is already being shot in 6k as a kind of norm, so it won't be too long.

[Inhogswetrust]

So they would raze the old indoor practice area and build low enough not to interfere with the screen or would it have to be raised?

Partly yes. Some of the building is to be redone as well. There were drawing done a while back when this was first proposed as a part of the master plan. IIRC they even envision some ground level suites similar to Cowboys stadium. The screen isn't visible as it is from some seats on the sidelines in the lower northern parts. Besides as someone else said it also is to include new screens on the south side corners.

[Dwight_K_Shrute]

I have an indoor and outdoor HDTVs, unlimited access to cheap food and beverages, nice bathrooms just a walk away, my car is parked in the garage, and when the game is over, I don't have to fight traffic for an hour just to get out of Fayetteville.

Or, I could spends $1000+ in a year to get tickets, parking passes, etc. and go watch the game where all of those conveniences are not available. I'll stay home for now, while my discretionary income is low.

Man you cray cray.  Why would you even want to get out of Fayetteville?

[bigbadhog]

And where are said fans gonna be after 5-7 or 6-6 this season?

Continuing to drink the BB koolaid...

[Russ22]

I've heard talk that the 90-100K stadiums will become dinosaurs once 4-K TV becomes the standard.

Jeff Long has already told me that ADs around the country are feeling the impact of HDTV.

Pushing RRS to 90,000 would require $250-300 million plus more $$ for the extra parking that would be needed.

Which way to go? Baylor or Texas A&M?

Baylor went smaller because they weren't selling out Floyd-Casey Stadium (AKA Kyle Field North) to begin with. They also have a generally uninvolved alumni base and will struggle to sell out the bidet on the Brazos when Briles finishes there. The tarp for Baylor home games that hides empty seats has its own twitter account (@BaylorTarp).

Texas A&M expanded for three reasons: (1) Current student body is ~60,000 (and is projected at 75K within 20-30 years) and they sell ~40,000 season tickets to just the students; (2) The alumni base is still growing very fast. A&M has grown from ~12k in 1970 to its current size, so the demand for tickets from former students is very high; and (3) The updated Kyle will have many more of those luxury suites to pay for the other things in the athletic department that don't fund themselves.

Both schools made rational decisions on new stadiums given their individual circumstances - not some vague feelings from ADs around the country. I don't believe Long (who I believe is rational) will expand RRS until there is a significant uptick in overall attendance to demonstrate there is a demand for more seating. I think he would attempt to get more luxury boxes somehow, but I don't know how you just add those to the current configuration.

[jesterzzn]

put condo/luxury boxes in the gaps between the screen and the upper levels.  noise for days

Neyland Stadium used to have student housing on the south side of the stadium.  The seating in the south endzone is built up over top of those buildings.  Some professor offices are still there (or they were in 1999 when I was there).

In short, I actually like this idea.

[go hogues]

I don't believe Long (who I believe is rational) will expand RRS until there is a significant uptick in overall attendance to demonstrate there is a demand for more seating. I think he would attempt to get more luxury boxes somehow, but I don't know how you just add those to the current configuration.

Well, until then, they need to paint that peepee yellow church of christ that sits in the NEZ. Looks terrible in person and especially on tv.

[Mike Irwin]

Baylor went smaller because they weren't selling out Floyd-Casey Stadium (AKA Kyle Field North) to begin with. They also have a generally uninvolved alumni base and will struggle to sell out the bidet on the Brazos when Briles finishes there. The tarp for Baylor home games that hides empty seats has its own twitter account (@BaylorTarp).

Texas A&M expanded for three reasons: (1) Current student body is ~60,000 (and is projected at 75K within 20-30 years) and they sell ~40,000 season tickets to just the students; (2) The alumni base is still growing very fast. A&M has grown from ~12k in 1970 to its current size, so the demand for tickets from former students is very high; and (3) The updated Kyle will have many more of those luxury suites to pay for the other things in the athletic department that don't fund themselves.

Both schools made rational decisions on new stadiums given their individual circumstances - not some vague feelings from ADs around the country. I don't believe Long (who I believe is rational) will expand RRS until there is a significant uptick in overall attendance to demonstrate there is a demand for more seating. I think he would attempt to get more luxury boxes somehow, but I don't know how you just add those to the current configuration.

An AD I talked to kept mentioning what he called "The Rice Stadium effect." Rice Stadium holds 70 thousand and was build in 1950 when the school's football program was a competitive and respected member of the SWC.

Then pro sports came to Houston.

These days they've completely tarped off the endzones and the place still looks like a ghost town at games.

This is a dramatic example and not likely to happen to schools like Alabama, A&M, and LSU. But who really knows the future?

Again, what some of these AD's with 100,000 seat stadiums worry about is the effect of TV on live gate attendance down the road. You can make a rational decision today that doesn't look all that rational a decade later.

[WriterWrong]

EDIT: Oh -- And I agree smaller is better. Wouldn't a smaller stadium that is constantly full only fuel desire for the program? If tickets are more scarce, people are just going to get more rabid.  I'm sure this has been used by every monarch in history to keep control of his kingdom. Cut off food supplies. Then when your kingdom is hungry -- bring them food piecemeal as their savior. They become loyal to the hand that feeds.

It's completely backwards from what you'd want to do if the goal is making more money, but I say increase demand, not product.

Increase the demand for people to want to attend games over increasing the capacity for people to attend games.

I've got Cameron Indoor in mind. It's small and not very aesthetically pleasing, but people want to be inside that gym. When they get in the gym, they're loud and energetic.

That would be more beneficial to the program than creating more seating, in my opinion. Create an environment fans and players want to be in, everything takes care of itself.

[Hogfaniam]

this would look awesome between Dickey Stephens and Verizon.  Just sayin'

[woodhog14]

Well, until then, they need to paint that peepee yellow church of christ that sits in the NEZ. Looks terrible in person and especially on tv.

THIS x 1,000,000!!! I TOTALLY AGREE!!! Damn it looks awful on TV. Embarrassing...

[Inhogswetrust]

And where are said fans gonna be after 5-7 or 6-6 this season?

Still in my seats with season tickets just like I've done for years in both good and bad seasons.

[BigPapaHawg]

And where are said fans gonna be after 5-7 or 6-6 this season?

Still supporting my Hogs like I always have and will continue to do, from the best seat I can get at DWRRS!
Woo Pig!!!!

[Locutus_of_Boar]

I've heard talk that the 90-100K stadiums will become dinosaurs once 4-K TV becomes the standard.

Jeff Long has already told me that ADs around the country are feeling the impact of HDTV.

Pushing RRS to 90,000 would require $250-300 million plus more $$ for the extra parking that would be needed.

Which way to go? Baylor or Texas A&M?

This was Orville Henry's take an Razorback stadium circa 1973:  "(Fred) Thompsen says the initial 12,500-seat structure was built for $68,000 in U of A funds.  Federal money did the rest.  The Highway Department sold shovels to the U of A for which it received $100 per shovel in WPA funds.  The U of A sold the shovels back to the Highway Department for $3,500 at the completion of the job.

(Razorback Stadium was expanded repeatedly after World War II to its present capacity of 43,000, and it was so soundly designed that eventual expansion to 60,000 seats remains feasible.)"

Orville probably meant 60,000 with the end zones bowled in and no upper deck.  With the upper deck 85-90k is probably the maximum possible stadium size though there is simply no surrounding infrastructure to support that many fans.

With likely more TV money and not enough projects to spend it on and before the rest of the university and the state tries to make off with the cash they will enclose the north end and may offset that with closing the often vacant corner sections of the upper deck and perhaps spread out the sideline seating and add more permanent premium chairback sections to begin increasing fan comfort and "fill" the stadium without greatly increasing the total seat count by more than a token few thousand.

[atekido]

I never understood buying the club/suite box seats.  Stay home and watch the game you will get the same feeling.  Id much rather be down near the field out in the elements.  Then again that is just me.

[ricepig]

I never understood buying the club/suite box seats.  Stay home and watch the game you will get the same feeling.  Id much rather be down near the field out in the elements.  Then again that is just me.

You do know that you are in the elements in the outdoor club? Also, the suites have seats outside, too.

[woodhog14]

You do know that you are in the elements in the outdoor club? Also, the suites have seats outside, too.

The suites don't have seats outside at DWRRS. Wish they did. Baum Stadium's suites have seats outside though, maybe you are thinking of that?

[The_Iceman]

I never understood buying the club/suite box seats.  Stay home and watch the game you will get the same feeling.  Id much rather be down near the field out in the elements.  Then again that is just me.

Because companies can buy them. That is where the interest is.

[sooie84]

Because companies can buy them. That is where the interest is.

This. Corporations use suites as recruiting tools for new clients and to keep  existing ones happy.  If you have been to the suite level of a professional stadium  most of them have been purchased by corporations. With the continued business growth in NWA the demand will be there.

[ricepig]

The suites don't have seats outside at DWRRS. Wish they did. Baum Stadium's suites have seats outside though, maybe you are thinking of that?

The ones in the south end zone do, don't remember on the others.

[East TN HAWG]

This. Corporations use suites as recruiting tools for new clients and to keep  existing ones happy.  If you have been to the suite level of a professional stadium  most of them have been purchased by corporations. With the continued business growth in NWA the demand will be there.

FedEx has a suite at Bristol Motor Speedway, and invited me to the race last fall.  It was awesome.  They gave me pit passes, and I got to hang out with Denny Hamlin and Joe Gibbs.  ( I got to wear Joe Gibbs ring and talked to him about coaching at the U of A.)  I was on pit row during the national anthem, and sitting on the pit row wall as cars drove by at full speed during the race.  After watching a couple of pit stops, we went back up to the suite.  The food was awesome, and anything my wife or I wanted to drink.  My wife asked me if I was somebody.  She could not believe how we were taken care of.

These events build relationships.  I've had service issues over the past six months. I'm working through them not because of the tickets but because of the relationship that has been developed.  These events are very important to corporations.  I think if it is done right the demand will be there. 

[hog.goblin]

The suites don't have seats outside at DWRRS. Wish they did. Baum Stadium's suites have seats outside though, maybe you are thinking of that?

The south outdoor club are is considered suites.  Chairbacks and beer.

[ricepig]

The south outdoor club are is considered suites.  Chairbacks and beer.

Well, I sit there, but I wouldn't consider it suite level. I do know I've yelled up at some friends who have the corner suite in the same corner.

[hog.goblin]

It's a different kind of suite, that's for sure.

[NaturalStateReb]

FedEx has a suite at Bristol Motor Speedway, and invited me to the race last fall.  It was awesome.  They gave me pit passes, and I got to hang out with Denny Hamlin and Joe Gibbs.  ( I got to wear Joe Gibbs ring and talked to him about coaching at the U of A.)  I was on pit row during the national anthem, and sitting on the pit row wall as cars drove by at full speed during the race.  After watching a couple of pit stops, we went back up to the suite.  The food was awesome, and anything my wife or I wanted to drink.  My wife asked me if I was somebody.  She could not believe how we were taken care of.

These events build relationships.  I've had service issues over the past six months. I'm working through them not because of the tickets but because of the relationship that has been developed.  These events are very important to corporations.  I think if it is done right the demand will be there. 

The demand will be there, but the complexion of the experience will be changed and not for the better.  Instead of game day being an exhibition of regional pride at a sporting event, it'll be a colorless gladiatorial contest waged in a corporatized coliseum performed for an audience more interested in the menu than the sport.

[woodhog14]

The ones in the south end zone do, don't remember on the others.

Actually they don't. They can open/slide their window open, but the seats are inside. The suites at Baum have seats outside the suite.

[Theolesnort]

Don't be reactive be proactive. Build it past 90,000 with all the new suites it can hold then when that is done start ripping out the bench seats on the sides and replacing them in the off season in a deliberate slow pace done right. When RRS is done, bench seats would be gone with attendance somewhere around 80,000 plus. We would have a beautiful functional stadium with some room to grow attendance after Bielema starts winning big. At least that would be a sensible plan.

[sowmonella]

Would one of our advanced photoshoppers please put the current SEZ on the NEZ? That's what I'd like to see. :razorback:

[The_Iceman]

Would one of our advanced photoshoppers please put the current SEZ on the NEZ? That's what I'd like to see. :razorback:

Not quite. I think we will only need one level of red chair backs, instead of the two that are in the SEZ. We also need more skyboxes than we have in the SEZ. The NEZ should finish just below the video board, while having a large open terrace on top of the NEZ for media, events, etc.

[Mike Irwin]

Not quite. I think we will only need one level of red chair backs, instead of the two that are in the SEZ. We also need more skyboxes than we have in the SEZ. The NEZ should finish just below the video board, while having a large open terrace on top of the NEZ for media, events, etc.

You're referring to the concept rendering of the proposed NEZ addition. That project would only add 5-6 thousand seats which is not close to the 90 thousand the recruit was referring to.

I know Danny West well and if he says a recruit told him of the plans to expand DWRRS to 90,000 then the kid did indeed say that. I doubt any of the coaches would have said something like that to a recruit if it was BS.

My point is, we can sit here and debate the merits of such an expansion pro and con but it sounds like it's going to happen.

[Hogfaniam]

You're referring to the concept rendering of the proposed NEZ addition. That project would only add 5-6 thousand seats which is not close to the 90 thousand the recruit was referring to.

I know Danny West well and if he says a recruit told him of the plans to expand DWRRS to 90,000 then the kid did indeed say that. I doubt any of the coaches would have said something like that to a recruit if it was BS.

My point is, we can sit here and debate the merits of such an expansion pro and con but it sounds like it's going to happen.

no whey.  where are they going to stick 18000 more seats?

[Inhogswetrust]

no whey.  where are they going to stick 18000 more seats?

The proposed NEZ could be redone to add more than originally thought. The SEZ already was structurally built for adding more seats on top. Remember how they used to put temporary bleachers up there. It was designed and built to have something like that with permanent seating just like the upper decks on the sidelines.

[Theolesnort]

no whey.  where are they going to stick 18000 more seats?

Yes whey, the south end zone where the temporary bleachers were, was designed for another 7,2000 - 8,000 permanent seats when wanted. Do that then add on in the north end zone another 11,000 seats instead of 6,000. There is a way and a lot of flexibility to what they may yet come up with. Then again this may be much ado about nothing. Personally I think Long has long term plans to win with Bielema and win big and he is considering the future instead of the here and now. Sounds to me like he is becoming a visionary type of AD.

[McKdaddy]

I have an indoor and outdoor HDTVs, unlimited access to cheap food and beverages, nice bathrooms just a walk away, my car is parked in the garage, and when the game is over, I don't have to fight traffic for an hour just to get out of Fayetteville.

Or, I could spends $1000+ in a year to get tickets, parking passes, etc. and go watch the game where all of those conveniences are not available. I'll stay home for now, while my discretionary income is low.

I and many others are described by the 1st paragraph above.  I still make my donation and attend games, BUT every year I feel I'm closer to abandoning the tix and donation.  Between my kids' events and my desire to see as many cfb games as I can on a Saturday, it is more difficult to make it to games.

[ricepig]

Yes whey, the south end zone where the temporary bleachers were, was designed for another 7,2000 - 8,000 permanent seats when wanted. Do that then add on in the north end zone another 11,000 seats instead of 6,000. There is a way and a lot of flexibility to what they may yet come up with. Then again this may be much ado about nothing. Personally I think Long has long term plans to win with Bielema and win big and he is considering the future instead of the here and now. Sounds to me like he is becoming a visionary type of AD.

I don't believe the SEZ will hold that much, the entire east side upper deck holds less than 7000. There are 10 sections and they hold an average of around 600+ each. I thought 4000 was the max for the SEZ.

[WorfHog]

Yes whey, the south end zone where the temporary bleachers were, was designed for another 7,2000 - 8,000 permanent seats when wanted. Do that then add on in the north end zone another 11,000 seats instead of 6,000. There is a way and a lot of flexibility to what they may yet come up with. Then again this may be much ado about nothing. Personally I think Long has long term plans to win with Bielema and win big and he is considering the future instead of the here and now. Sounds to me like he is becoming a visionary type of AD.

From Yankee Carpetbagger to Visionary Athletic Director: The Jeff Long Story by Hogville

[Mr. Hughes]

When it was being enclosed 15 years ago, 8,000 was always the number used when talking about the future SEZ Upper Deck. The Daves talked about it during the '99 Tennessee game and the model was shown while they were talking about it.

Go to the 1:17:45 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZxbARIdYyo

I also remember the Democrat-Gazette article when the expansion was completed. It had some good illustrations and graphs. Pretty sure that one also said the Upper Deck could hold up to 8,000. (I can still see the picture on the front of that sports page......A shot of Nutt chomping on his fingernails.)

If the NEZ was done exactly as the South then capacity would be around 98,000.

   72,000
     8,000
   10,000
+   8,000
    98,000

[ricepig]

When it was being enclosed 15 years ago, 8,000 was always the number used when talking about the future SEZ Upper Deck. The Daves talked about it during the '99 Tennessee game and the model was shown while they were talking about it.

Go to the 1:17:45 mark.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZxbARIdYyo

I also remember the Democrat-Gazette article when the expansion was completed. It had some good illustrations and graphs. Pretty sure that one also said the Upper Deck could hold up to 8,000. (I can still see the picture on the front of that sports page......A shot of Nutt chomping on his fingernails.)

If the NEZ was done exactly as the South then capacity would be around 98,000.

   72,000
     8,000
   10,000
+   8,000
    98,000

You might want to check you facts and numbers again there, Mr. Hughes.

[hawgsalot]

I and many others are described by the 1st paragraph above.  I still make my donation and attend games, BUT every year I feel I'm closer to abandoning the tix and donation.  Between my kids' events and my desire to see as many cfb games as I can on a Saturday, it is more difficult to make it to games.

Completely understandable but I will say there are more students graduating than ever, which means more alums and more season ticket holders to take your place.  NW is still booming and will for decades to come which will draw even more outsiders to games.

[Mr. Hughes]

You might want to check you facts and numbers again there, Mr. Hughes.

Which ones?

[ricepig]

Which ones?

The 98,000 number, lol.

[Mr. Hughes]

One of us is missing something.

72,000 Capacity now
  8,000 SEZ Upper Deck (# used 15 years ago)
10,000 NEZ Lower Deck (If done exactly like South)
  8,000 NEZ Upper Deck

Should come up to somewhere around 98,000.

[ricepig]

One of us is missing something.

72,000 Capacity now
  8,000 SEZ Upper Deck (# used 15 years ago)
10,000 NEZ Lower Deck (If done exactly like South)
  8,000 NEZ Upper Deck

Should come up to somewhere around 98,000.

There aren't 10,000 seats in the SEZ.

[Mr. Hughes]

How many are there?

[sowmonella]

 

[ricepig]

How many are there?

Around 7200.

[Kenny Dowell Loggains]

No, not when they'll be club seats and suites.

This ^^^^

90% of this message board could care less about suites & club seating, but that's what the boosters, current scholarship donors & the new money is looking for.  Need to make the overall stadium experience better.  It's not about adding seats, it's about creating a better environment whether you're an "old school fan" and don't mind braving the elements, or if you want the "posh glamourous" social scene.

I'd say 80,000 - 82,000 total seats would probably cap out Razorback Stadium

[woodhog14]

This ^^^^

90% of this message board could care less about suites & club seating, but that's what the boosters, current scholarship donors & the new money is looking for.  Need to make the overall stadium experience better.  It's not about adding seats, it's about creating a better environment whether you're an "old school fan" and don't mind braving the elements, or if you want the "posh glamourous" social scene.

I'd say 80,000 - 82,000 total seats would probably cap out Razorback Stadium

This right here.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

This ^^^^

90% of this message board could care less about suites & club seating, but that's what the boosters, current scholarship donors & the new money is looking for.  Need to make the overall stadium experience better.  It's not about adding seats, it's about creating a better environment whether you're an "old school fan" and don't mind braving the elements, or if you want the "posh glamourous" social scene.

I'd say 80,000 - 82,000 total seats would probably cap out Razorback Stadium

Just for the record, you can be an "old school fan" and still enjoy the suites and the business that can be conducted and get done while enjoying the game. Just because you aren't sitting out in the elements doesn't necessarily make you less of a fan. It just means that you have been extraordinarily blessed to be able to take advantage of that opportunity. Those who get to watch from the confines of a suite can bleed every bit as much "Cardinal and White" as those who sit in regular seating and hurt just as much as anyone else when the Hogs lose a game.

I know you weren't necessarily saying that they weren't fans like everyone else and you are right, all needs need to be served for the best for the school and the program. It's just that some seem to think that if you aren't "braving the elements", and you sit or stand in a suite, you aren't a "true" fan, and nothing is further from the truth.

[Mike Irwin]

This ^^^^

90% of this message board could care less about suites & club seating, but that's what the boosters, current scholarship donors & the new money is looking for.  Need to make the overall stadium experience better.  It's not about adding seats, it's about creating a better environment whether you're an "old school fan" and don't mind braving the elements, or if you want the "posh glamourous" social scene.

I'd say 80,000 - 82,000 total seats would probably cap out Razorback Stadium

But that's not what the recruit told Danny West. I see no reason why the coaches would have made the claim of an expansion to 90,000 to a recruit unless such an expansion was coming. Obviously no time table was given but you don' t start throwing stuff like that around if you're not serious about it. Not if you are a Razorback football coach.