Very eye opening. but we all knew this was going on

[atekido]

I am sure this is just the tip of the ice berg of just how much colleges protect there investments.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13065247/college-athletes-major-programs-benefit-confluence-factors-somes-avoid-criminal-charges

[hogcard1964]

I want no part of Florida football in the SEC.

[atekido]

Not just the Gators.  The State itself.  You can guarantee Miami is just as bad.   But the one i was really wishing they could get the info on is Notre Dame.  I think they are so good at it you just don't even hardly hear of their crimes.

[farmhawg]

Interesting that they picked Wisconsin as one of the schools.

[hoggusamoungus]

Interesting that they picked Wisconsin as one of the schools.

I watched the piece this morning and Bob Ley asked the reporter how the schools were selected.  She described them as quintessential college cities where the school was the biggest thing in town.  Madision (and Fayetteville) would certainly qualify.

[Pig in the Pokey]

Interesting that they picked Wisconsin as one of the schools.

yet no LSU...

[farmhawg]

Not sure I buy how they picked them....you could say that about most teams.

[Vantage 8 dude]

I am sure this is just the tip of the ice berg of just how much colleges protect there investments.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13065247/college-athletes-major-programs-benefit-confluence-factors-somes-avoid-criminal-charges

Not surprisingly it's often left to the HC to determine what a kid's fate will ultimately be. Even if a kid doesn't end up being charged with a crime the fact he's been in a particular scrape and/or situation that would warrant some possible discipline not surprisingly often the program does nothing to teach the kid his responsibilities. One of the many reasons that CBB has been such a wonderful hire. He expects his kids to be uncommon and represent the school and program with the highest standards. Too bad more staffs don't hold their kids adequately accountable. I mean for a kid to be involved, or at least suspected of being involved, in so many situations, whether or not formally charged by authorities, is ludicrous!

[The NewEra]

When I think about it, I'm not so sure this isn't positive media attention for FSU.  They seem to care less about the character of a player and only on their play making ability.  If you only want to play football, your a thug at heart and you know the institution and administration will help you get out from under the thumb of the law when you commit criminal acts, this is a selling point for that institution and their program.  This will probably attract the bad apples / great athletes of the world.  It's sad, but I think that may be the case.

As for us, I hope nothing like that is going on at the UofA.  I want the high character guys I'm led to believe we are going after.  I think high character guys will win out in the end.  I also want to be proud of our program for how things are handled off the field as well as on the field. 

[aar0n]

     24% of Florida's basketball and football rosters between 2009-2015 were implicated in a crime, with 100+ athlete related crimes occurring and 25 repeat offenders?!  Holy s%#*!  FSU isn't much better, and their AD appears about as sleazy as the players committing the crimes by constantly holding their hands through the process and even helping them from being prosecuted. 

Edit:  I agree with the poster above and was thinking the same while reading about the FSU administration getting so deeply involved.  Sadly this very article could be used to lure some of the more risky athletes to their program.  "Come to FSU and we'll help you through any 'troubles' you may have along the way!  We care about our players!"

    I'd like to see Auburn's full report without the name redactions and the limited information due to the age range privacy laws.  It's curious to me that Alabama wasn't included, Tuscaloosa seems to fit their "criteria" perfectly.

This report is sure to create some waves throughout the NCAA, but I could easily see it having the opposite effect and causing schools to better cover their athletes' crimes in the future. 

[hogcard1964]

I watched the piece this morning and Bob Ley asked the reporter how the schools were selected.  She described them as quintessential college cities where the school was the biggest thing in town.  Madision (and Fayetteville) would certainly qualify.

Also remember that Alvarez had a scandal during his last years of coaching when he knocked up an 18 years old cheerleader from Wisconsin that was hushed up.

[sickboy]

How the heck does FSU employ a guy who did six months in prison for cocaine distribution as Associate Athletic Director?!?! Are you freaking kidding me?! He must seriously know where the skeletons are hidden on Florida State football.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Not just the Gators.  The State itself.  You can guarantee Miami is just as bad.   But the one i was really wishing they could get the info on is Notre Dame.  I think they are so good at it you just don't even hardly hear of their crimes.

Italians are Catholic... Fuggetabooouutit

[Vantage 8 dude]

How the heck does FSU employ a guy who did six months in prison for cocaine distribution as Associate Athletic Director?!?! Are you freaking kidding me?! He must seriously know where the skeletons are hidden on Florida State football.

Your question would actually bear a searching answer except you explained it with the name Florida (i.e. Felony) State University.  HELLO.....self-explanatory to say the least.

[GatorHog]

If FSU pays an attorney to represent athletes in criminal matters, does that constitute the receipt of an improper benefit under NCAA bylaws

[Vantage 8 dude]

If FSU pays an attorney to represent athletes in criminal matters, does that constitute the receipt of an improper benefit under NCAA bylaws

What bylaws?! Heck, the NCAA makes 'em up as they go along. Besides, depends on how much enrichment the school in question gives the NCAA. Guess who gets off if they provide more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$?

[Hog N Bama]

Your question would actually bear a searching answer except you explained it with the name Florida (i.e. Felony) State University.  HELLO.....self-explanatory to say the least.

Bingo! No surprise here...  moving right along

[Cinco de Hogo]

Isn't this a case of ESPN feasting at the tit of the monster it held create.

Let's see if ESPN gives these sports factories less media time or more because of the attention they create.

I wonder what the stat is for the number of times an athlete is stalked(for whatever reason) vs the avg student.  Keeping athletes out of trouble is a full time job(yes even at CBB's Arkansas) because everyone wants a part of them and it's not alway for good reasons.

Across the landscape of college athletics and into the pros many a gifted athlete doesn't have the head on his shoulders or the upbringing to withstand the situations they find themselves in.

I just hope ya'll understand that it is the adults involved that are to blame the most(along with some parents) to blame and certainly ESPN is not innocent of playing there part. 

just like the schools attempt to protect their investment, ESPN will continue making money off the top schools the are named in their "report". 

If this were a poll would you vote that ESPN give a hoot what this report shows when it comes time to hype Florida or FSU?

It seem the draw the line at colleges protecting their investment but it will be just fine for ESPN to make millions of the same situation.

[HogWall Jackson]

I want no part of Florida football in the SEC.

Do you remember Charley Pell and Galen Hall?

[Inhogswetrust]

Do you remember Charley Pell and Galen Hall?

I think I remember them as the founders of Cheaters Anonymous..........................

[sickboy]

Isn't this a case of ESPN feasting at the tit of the monster it held create.

Let's see if ESPN gives these sports factories less media time or more because of the attention they create.

I wonder what the stat is for the number of times an athlete is stalked(for whatever reason) vs the avg student.  Keeping athletes out of trouble is a full time job(yes even at CBB's Arkansas) because everyone wants a part of them and it's not alway for good reasons.

Across the landscape of college athletics and into the pros many a gifted athlete doesn't have the head on his shoulders or the upbringing to withstand the situations they find themselves in.

I just hope ya'll understand that it is the adults involved that are to blame the most(along with some parents) to blame and certainly ESPN is not innocent of playing there part. 

just like the schools attempt to protect their investment, ESPN will continue making money off the top schools the are named in their "report". 

If this were a poll would you vote that ESPN give a hoot what this report shows when it comes time to hype Florida or FSU?

It seem the draw the line at colleges protecting their investment but it will be just fine for ESPN to make millions of the same situation.

I couldn't disagree more. The adults/espn/parents are all part of the conversation, but the kids are ultimately the ones responsible for the choices they make. There's a systemic problem when kids like Chris Rainey are committing multiple crimes while in school and never being held accountable for it. Some of these kids are committing rape and armed robbery. I don't care how hard it is to be an athlete. Sure, maybe a percentage of them deal with over zealous fans stalking them, though I'd guess the percentage who deal with something like that is very small, but there's no excuse for the crimes that are being committed here.

As for ESPN -- I don't know how you can fault them for this. They had the balls to investigate and publish the report against their own financial interest and in the interest of the betterment of the ethics of the sport in general. As much as they get wrong, Outside the Lines isn't one of them. Is the report flawless, no. Does it pose really important questions and get them into larger conversations about the ethics of college football, yes.

[HogPound]

Not just the Gators.  The State itself.  You can guarantee Miami is just as bad.   But the one i was really wishing they could get the info on is Notre Dame.  I think they are so good at it you just don't even hardly hear of their crimes.

Most programs that have dominant histories and championships are hated.


If Arkansas was the program Miami was in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s you people wouldn't care. If Arkansas was Florida under spurrier and urban, you wouldn't care. Same as FSU. Same with Notre dame.

I love my hogs but I can also recognize a historically dominant and successful football program. The light of the end of the tunnel is we have a coach that is winning the right way. Hard work and accountability.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Most programs that have dominant histories and championships are hated.


If Arkansas was the program Miami was in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s you people wouldn't care. If Arkansas was Florida under spurrier and urban, you wouldn't care. Same as FSU. Same with Notre dame.

I love my hogs but I can also recognize a historically dominant and successful football program. The light of the end of the tunnel is we have a coach that is winning the right way. Hard work and accountability.

The ultimate argument/topic of debate isn't necessarily whether or not a program is dominant or successful. It's HOW their handling their kids who are getting into trouble over and over again. While I might not care for a particular program, especially if their playing the Hogs, I can at least respect them if they're not trying to win with or continually accept the actions of a bunch of thugs!! Win or lose the coaching staff, and particularly the HC, is responsible for setting the ethical code and direction of the program. And that, my friend, goes for whether you're a "bottom feeder" or a NC. All the rest is ultimately so much manure.

[Cinco de Hogo]

I couldn't disagree more. The adults/espn/parents are all part of the conversation, but the kids are ultimately the ones responsible for the choices they make. There's a systemic problem when kids like Chris Rainey are committing multiple crimes while in school and never being held accountable for it. Some of these kids are committing rape and armed robbery. I don't care how hard it is to be an athlete. Sure, maybe a percentage of them deal with over zealous fans stalking them, though I'd guess the percentage who deal with something like that is very small, but there's no excuse for the crimes that are being committed here.

As for ESPN -- I don't know how you can fault them for this. They had the balls to investigate and publish the report against their own financial interest and in the interest of the betterment of the ethics of the sport in general. As much as they get wrong, Outside the Lines isn't one of them. Is the report flawless, no. Does it pose really important questions and get them into larger conversations about the ethics of college football, yes.

See your attitude is what I find wrong with the situation blame the eighteen year old but not the adults that built and sustain the monster.  Adults are responsible for holding young men accountable for their actions and parents are responsible for raising them right.

Do those two things and many of the problems disappear, not all because they are still just as human as any of us.  But when it happens the responsibility then land squarely on the shoulders of the (real) adults to do the right thing. 

However I can accept that my ideal of what the right thing is at another college might not be the view I have of the right thing at my favorite college and vice versus.  Bad can sometime be an ugly thing coming from a sports fan when it concerns the life's of young men we don't know and never will know the true circumstances.  Many of truths have come out either way in the past.

[Rison Razor Hog]

Most programs that have dominant histories and championships are hated.


If Arkansas was the program Miami was in the 80s, 90s and early 2000s you people wouldn't care. If Arkansas was Florida under spurrier and urban, you wouldn't care. Same as FSU. Same with Notre dame.

I love my hogs but I can also recognize a historically dominant and successful football program. The light of the end of the tunnel is we have a coach that is winning the right way. Hard work and accountability.

We were this historically dominant during the 60s, 70s and 80s. We won a national championship in the 60s and we were an average Top 10 program during those decades yet this kind of thing wasn't happening to us then. I don't have insider access to the crime stats from back then, but I don't remember scandals occurring all the time, and I do remember Lou Holtz leaving three players out of the Orange Bowl for having a girl in the dorm

http://www.chattanoogan.com/2007/12/27/119114/Roy-Exum-The-Best-Bowl-Game-Ever-Played.aspx

So, from what I know, Arkansas has always held its young men accountable, and I hope that it always will. Bret Bielema seems to have the same philosophy. Woo Pig!

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

How the heck does FSU employ a guy who did six months in prison for cocaine distribution as Associate Athletic Director?!?! Are you freaking kidding me?! He must seriously know where the skeletons are hidden on Florida State football.

Maybe so the players don't have to go out & try to buy drugs on the street.  At FSU, you just make an appointment with the Associate Athletic Director.....

[Rzbakfromwaybak]

Sounds like Florida & FSU, are running what appears to be a couple of halfway houses in that state.  Their inmates just happen to be playing sports for their institutions, while committing crime at a staggering rate.  Wonder how much crime they are committing, that is not even reported? Those 2 schools are also controlling the police departments & law enforcement in their area.  Pathetic situation.

[Vildsvin]

feasting at the tit

+1

[Kevin]

Rich people & people with power get less punishment the regular folks.

Not that earth shattering information

[JansterZ71]

I wish they could have done research on every power school from the Big 5 conferences.  It would have been interesting.  No big time program is lucky enough to not get bad apples. 

[WilsonHog]

Couple of things, just reading through the thread.

The assertion that student-athletes must be held responsible for their actions is true; however, those who are engaging in criminal behavior aren't likely to suddenly grow a conscience and hold themselves accountable. Accountability must be force on them by the adults in charge.

Secondly, the assertion that we wouldn't care if we enjoyed the success of an Oklahoma in the 1980s or a Miami in the 1990s is flat wrong. I'd much prefer to give my allegiance and loyalty to an 8-4 program that tried to do things the right way over a 12-0 program that did not.

I believe the majority of Arkansas fans feel that way, and the immediate aftermath of the Petrino scandal gives credence to that. He won more than any coach in the past 30 years, yet that wasn't enough to keep public opinion in the state from turning against him. Razorback fans want a winner, alright, but a certain kind of winner.

[Großer Kriegschwein]

I wish they could have done research on every power school from the Big 5 conferences.  It would have been interesting.  No big time program is lucky enough to not get bad apples.

Me too. I don't think the problem is teams getting bad apple or two is the problem. It's what teams do when the bad apple is found that's the problem.

[Vantage 8 dude]

Couple of things, just reading through the thread.

The assertion that student-athletes must be held responsible for their actions is true; however, those who are engaging in criminal behavior aren't likely to suddenly grow a conscience and hold themselves accountable. Accountability must be force on them by the adults in charge.

Secondly, the assertion that we wouldn't care if we enjoyed the success of an Oklahoma in the 1980s or a Miami in the 1990s is flat wrong. I'd much prefer to give my allegiance and loyalty to an 8-4 program that tried to do things the right way over a 12-0 program that did not.

I believe the majority of Arkansas fans feel that way, and the immediate aftermath of the Petrino scandal gives credence to that. He won more than any coach in the past 30 years, yet that wasn't enough to keep public opinion in the state from turning against him. Razorback fans want a winner, alright, but a certain kind of winner.

Couldn't agree more and definitely well put!! Yep, I believe the fact that a vast majority of Hog fans have embraced CBB's #uncommon man theme is testimony to the fact we want our kids to be top notch. And that means being just as good and high quality a person as a player. You CAN win without having to resort to being scumbags and thugs! Winning NCs, no matter how many and when, doesn't change that fact.

[MuskogeeHogFan]

I am sure this is just the tip of the ice berg of just how much colleges protect there investments.

http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/13065247/college-athletes-major-programs-benefit-confluence-factors-somes-avoid-criminal-charges

It's not like this is something that has just began to occur in the last 10-20 years. Programs have been getting players out of trouble with the authorities for a long time. It is just more difficult in this modern age of social media to conceal what some schools have always done.

[JansterZ71]

In June 2010, linebacker Kevin Rouse found himself sitting in a local jail, accused by police of felony substantial battery in relation to an altercation in an alley that left the alleged victim with "blood all over his hands and blood was running down his face and neck" and a "substantial laceration," according to police reports.

When it came time to call someone to let him know where he was, Rouse called his father. Rouse told Outside the Lines his father had already heard about the incident, though, from then-football coach Bret Bielema. According to the Outside the Lines report, a football coach knowing about an incident involving a player is not unique.

Paula Lavigne and Anna Hensel
An Outside the Lines investigation Sunday into 10 major football and men's basketball programs -- including Wisconsin's -- detailed incidents of coaches and athletic department officials being intertwined with police investigations involving athletes.

Overall, the Outside the Lines investigation found that what occurs between high-profile college athletes when they face criminal allegations and law enforcement is not as simple as the commonly held perception that police and prosecutors simply show preferential treatment to athletes, though that does occur. Rather, an examination of more than 2,000 police documents shows that athletes from the 10 schools mainly benefited from the confluence of factors that can be reality at major sports programs: the near-immediate access to high-profile attorneys, the intimidation that is felt by witnesses who accuse athletes, and the higher bar some criminal justice officials feel needs to be met in high-profile cases.

University of Wisconsin

To determine how often crimes involving college athletes are prosecuted and what factors influence them, Outside the Lines requested police reports involving all football and men's basketball players on rosters at 10 schools from 2009 to 2014. The Wisconsin results:




The number of Wisconsin reports skewed slightly lower in comparison to other schools, and police report narratives overall did not indicate a trend of favoritism or special advantages given by police or prosecutors. But Outside the Lines found at least one incident in Wisconsin that is illustrative of how the system can sometimes work.

In June 2010, linebacker Kevin Rouse found himself sitting in a local jail, accused by police of felony substantial battery in relation to an altercation in an alley that left the alleged victim with "blood all over his hands and blood was running down his face and neck" and a "substantial laceration," according to police reports.

When it came time to call someone to let him know where he was, Rouse called his father. Rouse told Outside the Lines his father had already heard about the incident, though, from then-football coach Bret Bielema. According to the Outside the Lines report, a football coach knowing about an incident involving a player is not unique.

Rouse said he had one quick conversation with an attorney but remained in jail a few days before being released. He was never charged.

When police came to let him out, Rouse said, "I remember the [commanding officer] saying, 'Wow, I can't believe they're letting you out. You must know some people in high places.' That's exactly what she said. And to this day, I don't really know why I got out."

[HoggyCat]

     24% of Florida's basketball and football rosters between 2009-2015 were implicated in a crime, with 100+ athlete related crimes occurring and 25 repeat offenders?!  Holy s%#*!  FSU isn't much better, and their AD appears about as sleazy as the players committing the crimes by constantly holding their hands through the process and even helping them from being prosecuted. 

Edit:  I agree with the poster above and was thinking the same while reading about the FSU administration getting so deeply involved.  Sadly this very article could be used to lure some of the more risky athletes to their program.  "Come to FSU and we'll help you through any 'troubles' you may have along the way!  We care about our players!"

    I'd like to see Auburn's full report without the name redactions and the limited information due to the age range privacy laws.  It's curious to me that Alabama wasn't included, Tuscaloosa seems to fit their "criteria" perfectly.

This report is sure to create some waves throughout the NCAA, but I could easily see it having the opposite effect and causing schools to better cover their athletes' crimes in the future.

I think that number means 24% of the crimes there were football or male basketball players. 

[HoggyCat]

Me too. I don't think the problem is teams getting bad apple or two is the problem. It's what teams do when the bad apple is found that's the problem.

You're correct.  Think back to 2009.  We had three MBB players accused of rape.  Pelphrey did nothing but slap them on the wrist (police couldn't find hard evidence against them, yet they were all three suspended for various lengths of time. If nothing happened, why suspend them?).  One of the players transferred to Eastern Michigan (I believe that's where he landed) a year later. He was later arrested for choking his girlfriend out while on their BB team.

And just a few months ago another player from that same calendar year (separate from these three) was arrested for trafficking females for sex.

An iron fist might have stopped these incidents, might not have. But Pel ruled with a limp wrist and jeffi supported him.


Unlike Mizzou, who my only kicked dgb off the team, put completely out the door.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Couple of things, just reading through the thread.

The assertion that student-athletes must be held responsible for their actions is true; however, those who are engaging in criminal behavior aren't likely to suddenly grow a conscience and hold themselves accountable. Accountability must be force on them by the adults in charge.

Secondly, the assertion that we wouldn't care if we enjoyed the success of an Oklahoma in the 1980s or a Miami in the 1990s is flat wrong. I'd much prefer to give my allegiance and loyalty to an 8-4 program that tried to do things the right way over a 12-0 program that did not.

I believe the majority of Arkansas fans feel that way, and the immediate aftermath of the Petrino scandal gives credence to that. He won more than any coach in the past 30 years, yet that wasn't enough to keep public opinion in the state from turning against him. Razorback fans want a winner, alright, but a certain kind of winner.

It's a common theme in this country, blame the next generation for the country going to the devil.  Like any eighteen year old has any control over what our government has done for the last sixty year, which is set up a cash cow for their elderly years.  If young people feel overwhelmed by the onslaught that's coming, frustrated and helpless how do you think they are gonna act.  Then we expect the sixty's hippies to punish them.  Well I guess tying them to a post and giving fifty lashes is out of the question.  That is exactly what a rapist deserves. 

Who the heck are these so called adults anyway?

[majp51]

It's a common theme in this country, blame the next generation for the country going to the devil.  Like any eighteen year old has any control over what our government has done for the last sixty year, which is set up a cash cow for their elderly years.  If young people feel overwhelmed by the onslaught that's coming, frustrated and helpless how do you think they are gonna act.  Then we expect the sixty's hippies to punish them.  Well I guess tying them to a post and giving fifty lashes is out of the question.  That is exactly what a rapist deserves. 

Who the heck are these so called adults anyway?

Cinco I presume you and other are n't saying the kids are not to blame, but rather  they aren't _THE ONLY_ ones to blame. That we shoudl hold the enablers guilty as well?