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Annual conference expansion talks heat up - Big 12, SEC adding teams?

Started by WizardofhOgZ, May 05, 2012, 04:03:44 pm

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online-with-swine

Quote from: Murr on May 16, 2012, 11:50:12 pm
SEC allows their teams to control Tier 3 rights, they just can not have their own network like the Big 12 allows.  If SECTV happens, I would expect some kind of minor pulling of third tier or voluntary submitance of content to it. 

Miami appears to be staying in the ACC.
GT looks to have been rejected by the B1G and is now talking to the Big 12.
Maryland, who knows.

Yeah, now people on the WVU forums are talking about GT gaining traction on Clemson for spot #12 due to the Atlanta metro area.  Or, they may take them as team 13 along with a partner(Maryland) to get to 14 and start an eastern division to the big12.

They still have VTech and NCstate penciled in for the SEC though.

online-with-swine

Quote from: NWASooner on May 17, 2012, 07:16:24 am
What's going to make me laugh is that A&M supposedly left the Big 12 because of the LHN only to go to the SEC where Bama or Florida could possibly do the same.

I think it has been close to a century's worth of pent up AM butthurt that finally exploded and led to them flushing the Big12 for the SEC.

 

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: Murr on May 16, 2012, 11:50:12 pm
SEC allows their teams to control Tier 3 rights, they just can not have their own network like the Big 12 allows.  If SECTV happens, I would expect some kind of minor pulling of third tier or voluntary submitance of content to it. 

Miami appears to be staying in the ACC.
GT looks to have been rejected by the B1G and is now talking to the Big 12.
Maryland, who knows.

For schools like Georgia Tech and Miami, it's about more than athletics.  Georgia Tech is an academically elite southern institution; Miami is a private school.  For both of these schools, academic reputation and research dollars are where their bread is buttered.  I would say that FSU and Clemson leaving in some ways is a gain for them; they would automatically bump up the ACC football foodchain, and be in a better position to actually win out and get a crack at the top 4. 

I think if Notre Dame jumps, they'll jump to the ACC.  Notre Dame sees itself as an elite academic institution.  The Big 12 doesn't fit the high academic profile that Notre Dame would like to see.  The B1G seems to be the natural fit at first glance, but Notre Dame won't be the prima donna school there and, ironically enough, the territory isn't right.  Notre Dame's fanbase is anchored on the East Coast.  The ACC offers the East Coast schools, a high academic profile, and a superhighway to the Top 10 any time Notre Dame is even reasonably decent.

If Florida State and Clemson bolt, the ACC is going to go after Notre Dame full bore.  They might get them--if they do, they've more than made good their losses; in fact, it'll be the biggest coup of Realignment 2.0.  If they get Notre Dame, they'll pull in UConn and Rutgers to go back to 13 and freeze the B1G out of the East Coast practically forever. 

If this shook out, the ACC would have to go after one more to get to 14.  The most logical addition would be the Cincinnati, followed by Louisville, Villanova, Temple, and Georgetown.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

GuvHog

Quote from: Murr on May 16, 2012, 07:42:29 pm
Forgot one, here is a podcast of a couple of the realignment "insiders" that have been providing coverage/information:
http://www.blatanthomerism.com/2012-articles/may/podcast-the-dude-speaks-on-the-big-12-florida-st-and-conference-realignment.html

I haven't heard it yet, but here is a recap from the WVU boards:

Who is this VPI that your WV quote says is headed to the SEC????
Bleeding Razorback Red Since Birth!!!

dooley

Quote from: NWASooner on May 17, 2012, 07:16:24 am
What's going to make me laugh is that A&M supposedly left the Big 12 because of the LHN only to go to the SEC where Bama or Florida could possibly do the same.

Again, Bama and Florida already do that with their Tier 3.  Arkansas does, too, with pay-per-view.  Both Bama and Florida already make between $25M - $30M per year.  As Murr pointed out, though, the anticipated SEC Network would take care of that for everyone.

The issue with TLN is multiple:  (1) It's broadcast nationally - I can watch it in LA, (2) it would have given an unfair recruiting advantage by showing potential UT recruits' high school games and (3) they were going to show Big 12 games exclusively on it thus forcing the other school's fans to subscribe to watch the game.  If I was aTm, I'd have been upset, too.  I was opposed to showing recruits' games, and all schools should have opposed that.

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: GUVHOG on May 17, 2012, 08:58:12 am
Who is this VPI that your WV quote says is headed to the SEC????

Virginia Polytechnical Institute.  Virginia Tech.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

texas tush hog

Quote from: GUVHOG on May 17, 2012, 08:58:12 am
Who is this VPI that your WV quote says is headed to the SEC????

Virginia Polytechnical Institute, sometimes known as Virginia Tech, there Guv,
fixed that for ya.

texas tush hog

Quote from: NWASooner on May 17, 2012, 07:16:24 am
What's going to make me laugh is that A&M supposedly left the Big 12 because of the LHN only to go to the SEC where Bama or Florida could possibly do the same.

Remember, he who laughs last, laughs best.

online-with-swine

Quote from: texas tush hog on May 17, 2012, 09:29:45 am
Remember, he who laughs last, laughs best.

I bet Slive has been laughing this whole time.  I get the feeling that our targets for 15/16 schools was decided on at the same time Mizzou and AM was voted into the league.  Furthermore, those schools have likely already agreed to join the SEC.  This is just my opinion.

If some of the rumors are to be trusted, WV was going to be one of those schools but got antsy when they didn't get penciled in as school 14 and jumped at the Big 12.

Murr

Now I have seen this written in two different places; VT/VPI talks with SEC:
Quotehttp://dudeofwv.blogspot.com/2012/05/big-12-expansion-no-news-or-good-news.html

THURSDAY, MAY 17, 2012
Big 12 Expansion: No News or Good News

No news is either good news or bad news depending on your perspective.

No news coming out of the ACC meetings is bad news for John Swofford.

It's not good news that no-one is saying a word in the wake of the recent ACC conference meeting.

The tight lips speak volumes about the reports of FSU and Clemson pondering a move to the Big 12. 

Swofford refuses to discuss "hypothetical" reports and instead waxes into discussions of Pittsburgh and Syracuse joining the ACC a year early and deflects questions with rhetoric about the basketball tournament.

It can't be a good sign for the ACC that FSU's athletic director, Randy Spetman, literally sprinted away from reporters to avoid discussing the situation.

To the Big 12 the silence is golden. The wheels of realignment turn and the process begins to move from the theoretical to the legal minutia of withdrawing from the ACC and applying to the Big 12.

Yet privately there are some who are talking and the story they tell of the ACC meetings is nothing but bad news for the conference.

An Offer to allow bowl teams to exempt 50% of  bowl revenues was rejected and the other monetary concessions floated about didn't have enough impact on the bottom line to make Florida State pause.

The only thing that can save the ACC football is Notre Dame.

Swofford's endorsement of a BCS playoff plan that would require participants to be conference champions would force Notre Dame out of the ranks of the independents.

The only problem with Swofford's last ditch effort to hold his conference together is that Notre Dame is unlikely to join a conference that packages tier 3 television rights and throws the proceeds in the profit-sharing pot unless that conference contains Ohio State, Michigan and the rest of the Big 10.

(I continue to hear whispers of ND and the Big 12 but while I'm sure the Big 12 is actively courting ND, I just don't see the Big 10 sitting by without making a play.)

Others tell me the ACC has opened discussion with several Big East teams. Louisville, UCONN, Rutgers and South Florida are all potential replacements if mass defections rock the ACC.

Louisville, UCONN and Rutgers make sense for various reasons. South Florida seems a reach since the academic reputation of the school doesn't seem to fit the ACC profile.

Yet South Florida is considered by many to be a sleeping football giant and keeps the ACC with two schools in the middle of what may be the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country.

Whatever happens its clear the ACC is forming contingency plans to survive after the pending  defections.

Notes:

The ACC has begun to rattle its legal sabers at the Big 12 after Derrick Brooks disclosed The Big 12 approached FSU and discussions have occurred (and are ongoing).

The Big 12 is eager to avoid claims of tortious interference from the ACC despite believing the claim would have no actual basis, but don't be surprised if information dries up until after the NCAA presidents vote on the exact BCS playoff  plan.

FSU's president Eric Barron is still reluctant to withdraw from the ACC but the consensus, at least among my sources, is that the move is inevitable.

FSU fans who support the move might want to consider making their opinion known just like the Missouri faithful gave Brady Deaton the push he needed to move the Tigers to the SEC.

Virginia Tech is actively talking with the SEC despite the protestations of Frank Beamer.

NWASooner

I could be wrong but I always thought VTech had a "Virginia problem," meaning that UVA fought to get them into the ACC and won't let them leave.

online-with-swine

Quote from: NWASooner on May 17, 2012, 05:37:15 pm
I could be wrong but I always thought VTech had a "Virginia problem," meaning that UVA fought to get them into the ACC and won't let them leave.

I thought it was more of VTech being forced upon UVa and ACC by politicians.  But, I don't know how accurate that is.  If true, then UVa might not mind tech going elswhere.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: KnilesKankle on May 17, 2012, 06:08:50 pm
I thought it was more of VTech being forced upon UVa and ACC by politicians.  But, I don't know how accurate that is.  If true, then UVa might not mind tech going elswhere.

I've heard this is the more accurate version. It was also reported as such when it all went down and VT finally got in the ACC.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

 

Murr

Quote from: Inhogswetrust on May 17, 2012, 06:24:27 pm
I've heard this is the more accurate version. It was also reported as such when it all went down and VT finally got in the ACC.
If ACC dissolves or loses more value, VT will go.  Currently the Big 12 will take them, the SEC has been very quiet/no leaks yet.

If the ACC starts losing teams, they will back fill with L'ville, Rutgers, UConn, Georgetown, Villanova and other Big East football and maybe nonfootball members.  Expect emphasis on basketball powers. (Nova is in FCS and G'town has a football team at some level; they'll do scholarships next season I believe)

dooley

Quote from: KnilesKankle on May 17, 2012, 06:08:50 pm
I thought it was more of VTech being forced upon UVa and ACC by politicians.  But, I don't know how accurate that is.  If true, then UVa might not mind tech going elswhere.

What you said is true.  Va Tech forced its way into the ACC against UVA objections.  UVA pretty much considers Va Tech inconsequential.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: dooley on May 17, 2012, 11:58:57 pm
What you said is true.  Va Tech forced its way into the ACC against UVA objections.  UVA pretty much considers Va Tech inconsequential.

I lived in Richmond for a few years. Later worked in Roanoke. I really liked it there. UVA has a high polluting opinion of themselves. They are similar to tejas in that regard. They think all the schools in that part of the country close to them are beneath them. Academically that may be true. Not so much athletically.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

DEVIL DOG HOG

It took the Virginia legislators to get UV to let VT into the ACC, I don't think VT will go anywhere with out UV.
"I love college football. It's the time of the year you can walk down the street with a girl on one arm and a blanket on the other, and nobody thinks twice about it." DUFFY DAUGHERTY




GO GREEN!

online-with-swine

I was in Blacksburg, VA for 3-4 days last year.  It is a very beautiful area and the people we met were all extremely nice.  I would love them to be in the SEC

online-with-swine

With the SEC-BIG12 agreement, we may see the beginnings of 4 super  conferences (PAC-B1G and SEC-Big12) with the Big east and ACC being left out.  The football schools are going to start jumping from the ACC in a hurry to get on board b/f they get shut out of the BCS championship and other top bowls.

Hornkiller

Quote from: KnilesKankle on May 18, 2012, 01:37:53 pm
With the SEC-BIG12 agreement, we may see the beginnings of 4 super  conferences (PAC-B1G and Seaborg12) with the Big east and ACC being left out.  The football schools are going to start jumping from the ACC in a hurry to get on board b/f they get shut out of the BCS championship and other top bowls.

Agreed and it would be a powerful alliance, we'll until Texas decides they want to run it.  But it will be interesting to see what happens how there is a tag team to go head to head with the traditional PAC-12 doing whatever the B1G tells it to do alliance.



Quote from: NWASooner on May 16, 2012, 05:35:30 pm
The Big 12 would offer the Catholics a better deal.  (I do not think Notre Dame is going anywhere.)

If Notre Dame joined the Big 12 like it did the Big East (everything but football), they'd get tons more money because the Big 12 would let them keep the NBC deal.  Not re Dame would have to agree to play 3 or 4 Big 12 teams per year like they did the Big East, though.

However, if Not re Dame did join the Big 12 along with FSU, Clemson, and say, Miami and/or Georgia Tech, that could be a monster TV deal.  Something along the lines of $25M to $30M per year in addition to Not re Dam's tier 3 money from NBC.

When the power conferences start forming there is going to be a day when (probably the B1G) is going to tell the Irish hop on the train or forever get left at the station. When that happens where are the Irish going to go? Somewhere that won't let them have their own network or a conference headed up by a program known for having  their own network? Drill deeper and find out that the Ads of Texas and ND are good friends, the Irish's fan bases displeasure at being told for years by the B1G they need to join a conference and the possibility Notre Dame will be in bed with the current most powerful force in College Football, the SEC, and there shouldn't be a debate. Push will come to shove and when shoved Not re Dame is going to the Big XII.

Quote from: NaturalStateReb on May 17, 2012, 08:01:40 am
For schools like Georgia Tech and Miami, it's about more than athletics.  Georgia Tech is an academically elite southern institution; Miami is a private school.  For both of these schools, academic reputation and research dollars are where their bread is buttered.

I respectfully disagree. Miami has always had that reputation and few in the state knew the school existed before Schnelly and Jim Kelly got there. As it said in the 30 for 30 show, Miami became the U, more kids started enrolling that 5 years before would have gone to Florida State or Florida so that brought in money, more merch = more money, more proud alumni = more money, better program with more TV ratings and bowl games = more money. And who benefited? The academic and research programs.

Even schools without perennial top 10 programs know the tail wags the dog. Your team does well and (not to get political) but it trickles down to the rest of the institution. Unless your an Ivy league school that can rely on reputation alone, athletics always enters the equation.

Now the question should be is Georgia Tech on the radar for the Big XII? FSU and Clemson have made it known they don't like being football programs in a basketball conference. Tech, who has had some good seasons in both sports, hasn't yet declared a dog in the fight. But given the chance to get more money they'll go for the money. They may not have NC or Duke to play in basketball but getting to play Kansas is a nice consolation prize.


NWASooner

Notre Dame joining the Big 12 would also get them more money from NBC along with the Big 12 money.  NBC would get to televise Domer home games against OU, Texas, Florida State, whomever.  That's worth far more than what they're showing now.

The only thing about the Domers is they've never been about athletic money because, quite frankly, they don't need it.  They're rich enough already.  However, now we're talking exponentially more money.  Even rich people like tons more money.

Murr

More rumors from Morgantown:

1. Apparently the SEC is VERY interested in UNC

2. MHver3 posts:
QuoteOpening Salvo
________________________________________
Wow-What a momentous day. 
a day that on Tobacco Road, will live in infamy.

It all started months ago when WVU was passed over and Syracuse taken-to the ACC that is.

ESPN orchestrated the demise of one of the power 6 BCS leagues and also planted the seeds for the demise of  another.

FSU and Clemson would never be able to close the gap on SC and UF in tv $ by taking on 2 of the BIG EAST's poorest football programs. The Big 12 could offer an interesting solution.

Fast Foward to now.  The door has been closed on the ACC's face.
Make no mistake-once expansion is over these(Rose and Sugar? Cotton?) will be your regional semi-finals. Where the game with the SEC champ actually lands is totally up to how deep certain folks are willing to dig into pockets. What a financial windfall this will be to both conferences. My contact(who kept me in the dark on this if he knew before today) is saying he just heard early estimates are at $50 million for this one game-on the low end!

And ND....First Swofford, then Delaney, and now B12 and SEC as well?
Swarbrick has a huge decision to make

The war has begun

UPDATE!!!

Now that the cats out of the bag other details are emegering about more than just a partnership for a bowl game....
SEC/Big12 Challenge??

Ah..but we need to get to 14 first...
Hello, Dodds?
Oh, sorry you're on the phone with Swarbrick, eh?

Oh its a conference call with Swarbrick, Spetman, Luck, and others???

Dodds may have a Miami problem

The prodigal son
________________________________________
information is not flowing as freely the past few days.
Big12 offices want the talk in the media to subside to help avoid lawsuits.
The only real new tidbit I have is that Texas and OK want to make one last pitch to Arkansas before expanding again. Arkansas will listen to the pitch but my contact says they've listened to B12 proposals before
sorry...It's all I got right now














NWASooner

QuoteThe only real new tidbit I have is that Texas and OK want to make one last pitch to Arkansas before expanding again. Arkansas will listen to the pitch but my contact says they've listened to B12 proposals before

Had that same conversation tonight with the Mrs.  Arkansas shouldn't leave but they should listen to that.  If Arkansas could get in along with Notre Dame, that's a $30M/year deal and that's before Tier 3.

 

online-with-swine

Quote from: NWASooner on May 18, 2012, 07:37:30 pm
Had that same conversation tonight with the Mrs.  Arkansas shouldn't leave but they should listen to that.  If Arkansas could get in along with Notre Dame, that's a $30M/year deal and that's before Tier 3.

We've been on the backside of Bevo before, I doubt we do it again.  But, wow that is a lot of money!!

dooley

I see the UT folks commenting about wanting us back, too.  It's hysterically funny.

WFCall73

The Big XII isn't and wasn't going anywhere.  That ship sailed when TCU and WVU joined and the schools agreed to a 13-yr grant of TV rights (making it financially impossible for a team to leave until 2025).  The SEC and Big XII both realize that the PAC 12-B1G have been using the Rose Bowl's history to exert an outsized influence on the BCS negotiation process -- despite the fact that neither conference has won a nat'l title in almost a decade (while the SEC and Big XII have dominated in both titles and title game appearances during that same period).  This move evens the playing field.  Hogville can hate on Texas all it wants, but UT's brand is more valuable than any single brand in the SEC (and will remain that way as long as the state of Texas dwarfs the state of Alabama in size).  That alone gives the Big XII tremendous value.  Combine UT's brand with OU, which isn't far behind, the rest of the Big XII -- which is strong 1-9 (Kansas sucks, at least in terms of football) -- add in the SEC's best-in-class football, and you have a powerhouse that can go toe-to-toe with B1G-PAC in the BCS negotiations. 

This hopefully results in a system that actually makes sense, as opposed to -- for instance -- Delaney's proposal that the PAC-B1G always meet in a Rose Bowl semifinal if both conferences place a team in the BCS final four.  That BS setup would guarantee one of those conferences a spot in the title game, even though they've both consistently lagged the Big XII and SEC in terms of performance.  With their enhanced negotiating leverage, that SEC and Big XII can hopefully avoid a playoff setup that puts their teams at a disadvantage.

Murr

I thought today was going to be a slow news/speculation day.  This game pretty much kills off the ACC and Big East from big boy football, opens expansion and forces Notre Dame into a conference or become irrelevant in football.

Fun times.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: NWASooner on May 18, 2012, 05:59:40 pm
Notre Dame joining the Big 12 would also get them more money from NBC along with the Big 12 money.  NBC would get to televise Domer home games against OU, Texas, Florida State, whomever.  That's worth far more than what they're showing now.

The only thing about the Domers is they've never been about athletic money because, quite frankly, they don't need it.  They're rich enough already.  However, now we're talking exponentially more money.  Even rich people like tons more money.

Especially when it is easy money. Still, if ND feels that they are pressed into joining a conference, when the smoke clears, I think it will be the Big1G. Big money, educational standards, too many common sports teams that they field, regionally specific, etc, etc. On the other hand, as we are seeing, being regionally specific is perhaps less important because everyone is jockeying for bigger t.v. money packages, but it would be difficult for ND to make a bad decision by joing the Big1G.
Go Hogs Go!

dooley

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on May 19, 2012, 07:20:48 am
Especially when it is easy money. Still, if ND feels that they are pressed into joining a conference, when the smoke clears, I think it will be the Big1G. Big money, educational standards, too many common sports teams that they field, regionally specific, etc, etc. On the other hand, as we are seeing, being regionally specific is perhaps less important because everyone is jockeying for bigger t.v. money packages, but it would be difficult for ND to make a bad decision by joing the Big1G.

Right on ND.  You have to ask who ND's big games are:  Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State along with USC.  75% of their traditional big games are B1G opponents.  Plus South Bend is practically a suburb of Chicago sitting between Illinois and Michigan.  If they went to the Big XII those B1G games go away with exception, probably, of USC.  The folks that drive down from Chicago are going to want those games against Purdue, Michigan, and Michigan State.

NWASooner

As for Notre Dame in the Big 10, you're right in that is makes sense on the surface but supposedly, the Domers have never liked how the Big 10 tries to negotiate the terms in the arrangement and that was before the Big 10 network.  They definitely won't let the Domers keep their NBC money.  That's a non starter. 

The Big 10 is also insisting on conference champs being required for the new playoff and ND doesn't want that.  Neither does the SEC and the Big 12 is on the fence at this point.

I can't imagine the Domers making road trips amongst a bunch of crazed, drunken and deranged hillbillies in Morgantown but that's where the money is pointing.


Murr

Collection of Greg Swaim tweets of the morning:

Greg Swaim ‏@GSwaim

Quotetwo highly placed sources at #FSU both tell us prez will let AD make decision to stay or go, and he and BOT leaning very heavily to #Big12.

Biggest question with #FSU likely next #Big12 member, who's the 12th team? #Clemson, #VaTech, #CardNation mentioned today by Big12 source.

#FSU prez will keep quiet for now until he announces Noles to #Big12 to help his popularity, but he won't make actual call.

One of the #FSU sources tells us that a unofficial contingent will soon be touring #Big12 campus facilities. #SEC may be out of the picture.

I think decisions have been made by #Big12. Official offer can't come until #FSU leaves #ACC, but unofficially nearly done.

Double D[deloss dodds] did only want 10 until #FSU wanted in.

#FSU prez will go with what AD/BOT recommend. All inside sources telling me the same last 24 hours.

Murr

Quote from: dooley on May 19, 2012, 10:14:51 am
Right on ND.  You have to ask who ND's big games are:  Purdue, Michigan, Michigan State along with USC.  75% of their traditional big games are B1G opponents.  Plus South Bend is practically a suburb of Chicago sitting between Illinois and Michigan.  If they went to the Big XII those B1G games go away with exception, probably, of USC.  The folks that drive down from Chicago are going to want those games against Purdue, Michigan, and Michigan State.
I read on one of the ND sites that the two most important rivalries that they must keep are:
1.Navy (kept ND in business during WWII by conducting training on campus)
2.USC

I was surprised by how little the resistance would be to do away with the yearly Michigan game.  Heck, it sounded like they would rather keep Mich State.

Murr

Another nugget from MHver3:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=9003247&p=1

QuoteFSU agrees in principal...
________________________________________
I just got word that FSU is going to agree to terms with the Big 12 on membership. They may be announced alone or with another eastern team in tandem.  Going to 12 with FSU and another will bump the contract to close to 24 million per team including Big12 championship game revenue-but not including new bowl with SEC(that could be worth as much as $3 million per team), or Tier 3 rights which FSU will control.  FSU is not getting Miami in, Miami does not have the votes to get in. They are promising FSU games with TX and OK every year. Dodds is open to 14 now because of the SEC alliance we are forging. unless  someone like ARK or ND can be turned then 14 is probably as high as we go. FSU will pay $7 million to get out of the ACC because we will pick up the tab for $10 mill and loan FSU the other 3.
So what is the hold-up on Clemson now?...the B12 now has a lot more options to consider.  The word is that the SEC wants to stay at 14 for a few years and see how it works out before expanding again.  VT and a few others in the ACC are getting nervous.  VT is now in the picture for the B12(as is Pitt, MD, and others) and  it seems a school from the ACC has contacted the B1G---and the B1G is listening. 
I know that nothing is signed yet, but they have a verbal agreement on these terms and it is in the process of becoming legally binding.   
The ACC is dead as a football conference

NWASooner

Quote from: Murr on May 19, 2012, 12:21:44 pm
I read on one of the ND sites that the two most important rivalries that they must keep are:
1.Navy (kept ND in business during WWII by conducting training on campus)
2.USC

I was surprised by how little the resistance would be to do away with the yearly Michigan game.  Heck, it sounded like they would rather keep Mich State.

ND has been wanting to ditch Michigan for a few years now and I'm not sure why.  They keep getting TV pressure to keep it.

You're right about the two they'd keep.  They'd also keep USC for history's sake and for their CA recruiting.  If the Big 12 could promise them a workable schedule to keep them, they might live with that.

ND has always considered themselves a national program and this would give them games in CA, TX, and Florida.

Murr

The Michigan-Notre Dame game has always been a fun game for my family since we have roots in the Michiana region.  I could see ND not wanting to risk lossing in the third week of the season every year.

If the Big 12 could find a way to keep the number of conference games down to 8, maybe ND joins.

NWASooner

It's just funny to me that the Big 12 went from schools fleeing for their lives to now programs are suing to get in.  Tells you a lot about Dan Beebe.

Murr

Neinas did a great job.  The old Stanford AD should have easy work ahead of him.


NWASooner


Murr

Quote from: NWASooner on May 19, 2012, 05:09:42 pm
If Dan Beebe ran a funeral home, no one would die.
lol the only good thing that came out of Dan Beebe is the fake Dan Beebe on twitter; that guy is funny.

More chatter.
More from MHver3:
Quote
Posted: Today 6:27 PM
RE: FSU agrees in principal...
________________________________________
The school that contacted the b1G was indeed UVA.
also I believe the dude is tweeting that Clemson is in for number 12(haven't seen it but was just told in a pm)

From the Dude via twitter:
The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
Quote@LongLiveStache @GSwaim At the minimum I think we see 4 ACC teams leave. 2 to B12 and 2 to SEC.
@bmwtigerman I'm pretty damn sure VT is headed elsewhere. They're afraid of WVU. Beamer doesn't like Morgantown
Allison Wash ‏@Absolut_Hokie
Quote@GSwaim @thedudeofwv @longlivestache - which 2 to Big 12 and 2 to SEC, in y'alls opinion? Or all 4 in the Big 12?
The Dude of WV ‏@theDudeofWV
Quote@Absolut_Hokie @GSwaim @longlivestache FSU & CU to Big 12 : VPI & any NC school to SEC.
@Robman99_ With the Big 12. All the issues are resolved. The process must play out. Two key dates... 5/30 and 6/15.

dooley

Quote from: NWASooner on May 19, 2012, 04:50:22 pm
It's just funny to me that the Big 12 went from schools fleeing for their lives to now programs are suing to get in.  Tells you a lot about Dan Beebe.

Tells you a lot about UT backing off on revenue sharing.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: dooley on May 19, 2012, 11:23:02 pm
Tells you a lot about UT backing off on revenue sharing.

Yeah but, Beebe couldn't get them to do it. It took a nationally respected power-broker like Neinas to get it done.

Prior to his hiring I wouldn't have given you two cents for their remaining lifespan as a conference. Beebe did a very poor job for them. The hiring of Neinas saved their bacon. The question now is, can an AD from Academia-Land like Bowlsby, keep the momentum that Neinas has developed?
Go Hogs Go!

online-with-swine

Quote from: Murr on May 19, 2012, 02:25:43 pm
Another nugget from MHver3:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=9003247&p=1


I love that we keep getting mentioned as a target team for the Big12.  It's never going to happen but it shows our worth as a program when they aren't going to 15 or 16 unless they get us or ND.

Interesting that Slive is wanting to wait a couple of years before going to 16 teams.  I wouldn't want to miss out on VTech or UNC.

Inhogswetrust

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on May 20, 2012, 05:59:09 am
Yeah but, Beebe couldn't get them to do it. It took a nationally respected power-broker like Neinas to get it done.

Prior to his hiring I wouldn't have given you two cents for their remaining lifespan as a conference. Beebe did a very poor job for them. The hiring of Neinas saved their bacon. The question now is, can an AD from Academia-Land like Bowlsby, keep the momentum that Neinas has developed?

I believe there are three primary reasons for the Big12 Renaissance. 1) the media rights exit fees made it prohibitive for any school to leave. 2) the new media contract looks to be a good one. 3) the new version of media revenue sharing. I give DD and tejas credit for going along with that but it  wasn't happening until after the LHN deal was done. I believe none of those would have happened without the four teams leaving. It's also interesting that one word "media" in all three reasons is the same. The fact the ACC has always been primarily a basketball league is what is now making it precarious. There are three teams in the ACC that put more emphasis on football than basketball: Clemson, FSU and VT.  UVA, NCS and Maryland put about equal emphasis in both. Interesting in that THOSE are the schools that appear to be nervous and considering leaving. If any leave then look for NC to consider leaving. Their deal may be similar to what happened when we left the SWC. It took a team out of tejas to make the move first. It will probably take a team out of NC to move to force NC to more seriously consider it. As several of us posters have said all along basketball is NOT a part of the equation in expansion\realignment. It is about football TV dollars. A huge unknown variable is, does politics come into play.
If I'm going to cheer players and coaches in victory, I damn sure ought to be man enough to stand with them in defeat.

"Why some people are so drawn to the irrational is something that has always puzzled me" - James Randi

Murr

Today's notes:

http://dev.chuckoliver.net/2012/05/fsu-to-the-big-12-it-is-inevitable/
QuoteAccording to two people with the strongest ties possible to Florida State's Athletic Department, FSU fully plans on exiting the Atlantic Coast Conference.
Clemson will almost certainly pair with Florida State as team 11 and 12 for the Big 12.
Georgia Tech is also talking with the Big 12. I stress that Georgia Tech is only having conversations
It is very likely that you see the SEC make a play for two ACC institutions. One is likely to be Virginia Tech, the other has long been rumored to be North Carolina State.
The Big 10 has always had an eye on expanding into new markets and the ACC possesses institutions in Duke, UNC, Maryland, and UVA that would pair well with their current culture.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=159&f=4582&t=9003247&p=12
MHver3:
QuoteUPDATE-----------------------------

so I had a late night on the phone with my source.  we talked upcoming season, New/expanded facilities, the future of the NCAA bball tourney if a breakaway of the Big4 happens, etc.  i did manage to squeeze a few tidbits out of him though.

The Big12 will not take any overtures from 2 specific schools as part of a gentlemens agreement with Slive...there goes any hope of VT(Dang! I really really wanted to play VT again in conf-just have to settle for it being an alliance rivalvry one day).  slive doesn't want to go past 14 for a couple of years so some schools may twist in the wind for a bit ala Louisville. Wants a few years to study the scheduling and possibility of a semi-final.

the goal isn't to completely destroy the ACC but to merely reduce it to a conference unable to compete with the Big4 in football.  ESPN also will get to assemble the most incredible bball conference of all time with the remnants and the Catholics. 

Clemson is good to go but the hold-up is Notre Dame's sudden interest in talking with us again-their football worth is almost zero to a conference until their NBC contract is up...and they allegedly want Pitt. Speaking of Pitt, they have come to Ollie's doorstep begging for a handout....and he has obliged...Pitt could end up pulling a TCU

The championship bowl alliance was first pitched to Slive by Swofford...it's why the ACC was so quick to jump to 14 when it looked as if the SEC was going to. Swofford also pitched a scheduling alliance like the B1G and PAC have during that same conversation.  Slive pitched this idea to Neinas when Mizzou was on the cusp of leaving the B12.

Miami is not coming and it may be a long time before they start recovering from whats about to happen to them.

He didn't say but i assume NCST

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: KnilesKankle on May 20, 2012, 08:51:02 am
I love that we keep getting mentioned as a target team for the Big12.  It's never going to happen but it shows our worth as a program when they aren't going to 15 or 16 unless they get us or ND.

Interesting that Slive is wanting to wait a couple of years before going to 16 teams.  I wouldn't want to miss out on VTech or UNC.

If the ACC starts to fall apart and Slive's got a chance to land VT and UNC, he'll change his plans.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: NaturalStateReb on May 21, 2012, 08:04:47 am
If the ACC starts to fall apart and Slive's got a chance to land VT and UNC, he'll change his plans.

All it will take is one or two key defections to start the dominos falling.
Go Hogs Go!

NaturalStateReb

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on May 21, 2012, 08:06:23 am
All it will take is one or two key defections to start the dominos falling.

I think you're right.  The big question that's out there in my mind is how loyal UNC is to Tobacco Road.  If UNC's in play, everything's up for grabs--it'll be the signal to all of the ACC teams that it's every man for himself.  I can see UNC leaving NC State behind, but it's harder to me to see them leave Duke behind. 

UVA to the B1G seems odd to me, but given the dwindling number of eastern teams to pick from, they'd have to get on the B1G's radar if the Cavaliers were looking to make a move. 

I think Florida State's done.  Too much chatter for them not to be burning bridges and packing bags, although you never know.  Clemson seems a natural pairing, but Georgia Tech makes good financial sense if you're looking at cable deals.  Might be a good way for ESPN to shoehorn the failing Longhorn Network into a new, large cable market.

The Big 12 might end up with ND now that the ACC looks like it's going to take a nosedive.
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

NaturalStateReb

Maybe UNC in the SEC isn't as unlikely as I think.  Some UNC fans look like they favor it:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1408&t=9003080
"It's a trap!"--Houston Nutt and Admiral Ackbar, although Ackbar never called that play or ate that frito pie.

Hornkiller

Quote from: NaturalStateReb on May 21, 2012, 09:44:00 am
Maybe UNC in the SEC isn't as unlikely as I think.  Some UNC fans look like they favor it:

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=78&f=1408&t=9003080

Forget NC State, it's Duke that the Tar Heals want to keep around. In the football world it's a non-factor. But negoitating basketball rights with Kentucky, Duke and North Carolina in the conference? That is an untapped well ready to spew....