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Is This Real Football Anymore?

Started by Theolesnort, January 03, 2008, 11:32:03 am

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Bama Hog™

Quote from: hog.goblin on January 03, 2008, 12:30:08 pm
The spread offense is temporary (as the prevailing successful style - see the option, west coast, I formation, etc. - they have all come and gone as the most popular & successful offense).

Defenses always find a way to stop it because the offense is always at a disadvantage.  The option and spread have lasted the longest because the QB becomes more of a threat to run.  When the defense catches up and starts laying NFL style hits on these QBs again (see the downfall of the option), the spread will become just another good offense. 

Any offense can be successful but only if executed well and balanced to both the run and pass.

Best post on this thread. Well said. +1
Quote from: SILK PURSE on October 03, 2008, 09:34:24 am
MM and DW are to be lauded as Arkansas sports heroes for their overall contribution, not just on the playing field during one season, but also for the sacrifices that they made which ensured the dismantling of the Frank Broyles machine. 

simpleton

What did you guys think of West Virginia's 3-3-5 defense.  Their blitzes were confusing the hell out of OU.

 

AckaBacka

Quote from: Theolesnort on January 03, 2008, 11:42:52 am
Yes, but I really detest what New England is doing to football. Do you realize that they really don't need a running back to win and that is sad. People like McFadden better learn how to receive the pass or even his stock will drop.
The point is to win the game within the rules.  RB or not.  Winning isn't sad, ask the Pats.

toozakpig

The two things that have really brought parity to the college game is one, limit on scholarships. The second thing is just like the three point shot in basketball the spread offense has done the same in football. The best example of end of era offenses was that OU Miami game for the NC when JJ was coaching. Barry ran the w-bone and Jimmy ran the pro-style. That game ended the w-bone as the primary offense in D-1 football. I believe that one can run a variant of the spread and still have a powerful running game. But to do that "ole Miss" you have to think outside of the box. BP created the box.

razorbass

I can remember when the wishbone was the future of football, but there will be someone who comes up with a scheme to defend it.

memphishog

It is interesting to be that Bob Stoops seems to struggle a little bit with these wide open teams. I know Bradford was hurt, but their loses to TT, Boise last year, WV last night...I think it is fair to say he is considered one of the top coaches in America, he has to be thinking about the conversation we are having right now. O-line was bigger and stronger to the man, D-line was bigger and stronger to the man, and the spread seemed to be an equalizer last night. Executed very well mind you. They called the same plays against Pitt with a different outcome....but it seems like that game last night was a microcosm of the change in philosophy.

Theolesnort

Quote from: toozakpig on January 03, 2008, 12:34:22 pm
The two things that have really brought parity to the college game is one, limit on scholarships. The second thing is just like the three point shot in basketball the spread offense has done the same in football. The best example of end of era offenses was that OU Miami game for the NC when JJ was coaching. Barry ran the w-bone and Jimmy ran the pro-style. That game ended the w-bone as the primary offense in D-1 football. I believe that one can run a variant of the spread and still have a powerful running game. But to do that "ole Miss" you have to think outside of the box. BP created the box.
I hope you are right and Bobby incorporates the best of both worlds.
There's Nuttin in the world worth a solitary dime cept Old dogs and children and watermelon wine.

OTTER

Innovation and parity amoung talent is what we are seeing, along with rule changes which have encouraged open offenses and scoring.  Right now, the offenses are evolving more quickly than defenses.  When the wishbone first arrived, defenses just could not stop it.  Then the defenses evolved and you don't see the wishbone anymore(or at least it is rare).  Like every thing else, football will cycle into different offenses and defenses, rules will change again and sooner or later, the ole style will become the norm again, until someone with some new innovative idea begins a new trend.  Harry Chapin had a song called "All My Life's A Circle" and from football to fashion, we do tend to circle back to ideas from the past.  The offenses we see today will become something else in the future and defenses will have to evolve to stop them.  Kind of makes it fun, doesn't it? :razorback:
BE AFRAID!!  Be very, very afraid!  The Hogs are hungry and you look a lot like lunch!

memphishog

Quote from: OTTER on January 03, 2008, 12:39:35 pm
Kind of makes it fun, doesn't it? :razorback:

yes. fun if your team is keeping up with the trends. a headache if you have been in our shoes the last few years!

Silver Hog

Quote from: LedZepHog on January 03, 2008, 12:25:49 pm
Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay!

I'd love to see that too. Bunchna skinny defensive linemen getting blown out by Nebraska sized offense line and the back doing a Dmac on the safety for a TD. 

Hawgon

One thing I never understood with Nutt and Broyles was that while bemoaning the fact that it was difficult for Arkansas to get talent and depth, they were wedded to an offensive system that required a team to simply overpower the other team with talent and depth.  I guess that is probably why we ran wild against the patsies but usually failed against teams with equal or better talent.

hogsanity

If you are the defnse, just how do you adjust to 4 wide, wide splits and a qb and Rb that can run?  You have to have at least 4 db's, so that takes 4 defenders away from the line.  Throw in 2 or 3 lb's, and you see how hard it is to stop.  Add in the liberal blocking rules mentioned above, and yous ee how hard it is going to be for defenses, especially those not made up of speedy Lb's.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

johnsonswitch

Quote from: Theolesnort on January 03, 2008, 12:12:34 pm
Broyles's messed up big time the season before. My ticket has me a seat in the front around the 15 yard line North end. I was watching him pace at close range. Mike Irwin came by and we spoke briefly. Mike said Broyles was not pleased. He changed his mind about the new direction we were going that fast. He had the best guy for the new cutting edge technology. After a quarter of ball against USC he was ready to go back to the past. He is way out of reality to our chagrin. We were more than fortunate to get Petrino to make up for his mistake.

That's when the final act of this whole drama really started, second half of USC in Fay.
Then we had MM and DW get on the field and score in like...90 seconds.
It was all right there for us to have if FB had been maybe ten years younger and more 'in touch' and reasonable. Or if he didn't have such a close relationship with our then head coach.

The implications of that hour's events were gigantic.
And ironically, that was when FB sealed his retirement. Eventually.

 

PIGskin Pride

Ask Georgia about dominating a spread offense.  OU is just bad of late in bowl games. 

Bigger and better still wins 80% of the time. 


Greyhands

Quote from: EnemyOfMojo on January 03, 2008, 11:51:25 am
Well, I hear there's a coach in Oxford who still plays ball like it's the 1950s, you might check him out.
Rude , thats all that comment was. Guy was just starting a good topic for discussion.

memphishog

Quote from: PIGskin Pride on January 03, 2008, 12:51:37 pm
Ask Georgia about dominating a spread offense.  OU is just bad of late in bowl games. 

Bigger and better still wins 80% of the time. 



ok, fair question, but when you are talking about Georgia, OU, USC, WV, BC$ schools....the quality of athlete across the board is not THAT DIFFERENT. there will be a few outstanding guys here and there. but Hawaii was outmatched in weight and speed at almost every position. If Georgia had done that to WV we could have that argument.

Greyhands

I really think that  you have to change ur players you recruit on defense. You have to have the big run stopping LB for teams that play a non-spread offense. But you also need that small fast strong safety type to defend against the spread. Also as others have said in this post the best way to beat the spread is what Georgia did and that was sack the QB 8 times.

Greyhands

hogsanity

It really reminds me of what happened with college basketball in the late 80's and early-mid 90's.  A few coaches started running a full court run and gun type game, pressing, firing 3's, fast breaking, and it became more popular.  As it did, the ones doing it first had the most success, Nolan & Penders in the SWC, then Nolan and Petino in the SEC.  However, soon the field started to level again, as more coaches figured out what they needed to stop those type teams.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Theolesnort

Quote from: Greyhands on January 03, 2008, 12:53:06 pm
Rude , thats all that comment was. Guy was just starting a good topic for discussion.
No problem, I took it as a tongue in cheek comment.
There's Nuttin in the world worth a solitary dime cept Old dogs and children and watermelon wine.

PolishPigPower

Okay... I can't help but fear what I'm reading as I go through this thread.  We've been legitimately complaining and moaning and groaning about having absolutely no passing attack in Fayetteville since Clint Stoerner and Joe Ferguson (as coach) left the Hill.  Now that we have a passing game on the way, I'm reading where everyone wants to see the game become more physical and "pound the football".

Someone please, please, please correct me if I am wrong, but are we at least running the risk here of at least sounding like we are already complaining about not running the football enough in an old-time style?   :-\
Quote from: Cooper on November 16, 2008, 10:35:46 pm
I might try my hand at some porn.

Quote from: Breems on May 02, 2011, 02:55:14 pm
Last post in the Tavern here.  See you guys.  Have fun.

jgphillips3

When everyone is running the spread, defenses will catch up and be tailored to stop it and then someone will bring back a ground based assault that can tear those newly adjusted defenses apart.  The game goes in cycles.  The key is to get ahead of those cycles and evolve as the times evolve and not be stuck trying to win last year's football game.  If we stay with coaches who "innovate" within the era of football they are coaching, we will be just fine.  HDN's offense would have looked fine in the era of Jimmy Johnson at Miami, but it was 15 years outdated before it finally died kind of like Hatfield hanging on to the wishbone even after ALL of the best teams could stuff it.  We are evolving and hopefully we will have the sense to evolve again when the cycle reverses.

BloodRedHog

Quote from: Theolesnort on January 03, 2008, 11:32:03 am
Wow I don't know anymore but after last night and the Oklahoma debacle I question just where football is going with the Spread Offense and the wide splits and spreading the field where the most physically talented team is no longer winning the vast majority of the time. Yes, they still win most of the time but it seems that a physically under talented team can over come almost any obstacle when they are at a magical level and the other team is just playing at their average level, Last years Boise State - Oklahoma game is an example and Oklahoma - West Virginia is another example but to a lesser extent. Yes I know West Virgina is talented but I watched them to much this year to think they were more talented than Oklahoma. Same way with our Missouri game, there is no way that Missouri is that much more talented than Ark. The truth is they are pretty close in over all talent but better coached and they were at that magical level much like West Virginia was last night. With the rule changes of the last couple of decades it almost seems that the game is evolving into flag football that allows for blocking (above the waist) and tackling. The rules are getting to complex and open to intepertation by the refs. Last night I watched while the refs called almost everything they could see holding. Tuesday in the Cotton Bowl they let it almost all go except in the most extreme  cases. My point is not to rake the refs over the coals but to point out how when they first allowed players to get their hands away from their body to block they only allowed the players to only push. Now they are grabbing and even getting their arms outside the defenders chest area and even hooking their arms around to the back grabbing and getting away with it. It is becoming a wrasslin match on the lines and this is not the football that I grew up loving. I would almost be willing to go back to blocking below the waist and getting the hands back into the body next to the chest. For sure passing would drop off significantly and defense would come back into vogue. The way things are going ther e is going to be no such thing as consistent great defense for even the best of them are going to give up a ton of points from time to time when the other team is at that magical level. Before you point it out I will beat you to it, yes I am old and old fashioned and getting out of touch with the new reality but I do miss the grand old game of real football. Don't get me wrong because as this seemingy arms race escalates I do embrace Petrino because you do have to keep abreast of the new game today but I must admit I am confused where this new game is going and will the craziness of this season become even more crazy? sigh

Snort-- you gotta use paragraphs....my head is spinning.
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cityhog

Quote from: dkwvike on January 03, 2008, 12:03:39 pm
It was a lot of fun watching watching Air Force run the option last week, but those days are gone. When Frank Broyles finally admited it on national TV, I was blown away. It really makes you wonder if he was behind Nutt's offensive philosophies the past couple of years.


uhhhhh, gee, you think?  They don't call him paw paw because he gives Worther's to all the players.

Theolesnort

 Sorry but my wife was not home. She is the one that got me through the Technical Writing class at UAF. Bless her heart.
There's Nuttin in the world worth a solitary dime cept Old dogs and children and watermelon wine.

 

Master B

Get busy living or get busy dying

No, but seriously its still about being creative and keeping the defense off balance.  You pass on running downs and run on passing down, this is something the HDN could never figure out.  You might have to be creative on 1st and 2nd, to avoid 3rd & 13 resulting in smoke draws, interceptions, and sacks.

tiber

Quote from: Theolesnort on January 03, 2008, 11:32:03 am
Wow I don't know anymore but after last night and the Oklahoma debacle I question just where football is going with the Spread Offense and the wide splits and spreading the field where the most physically talented team is no longer winning the vast majority of the time. Yes, they still win most of the time but it seems that a physically under talented team can over come almost any obstacle when they are at a magical level and the other team is just playing at their average level, Last years Boise State - Oklahoma game is an example and Oklahoma - West Virginia is another example but to a lesser extent. Yes I know West Virgina is talented but I watched them to much this year to think they were more talented than Oklahoma. Same way with our Missouri game, there is no way that Missouri is that much more talented than Ark. The truth is they are pretty close in over all talent but better coached and they were at that magical level much like West Virginia was last night. With the rule changes of the last couple of decades it almost seems that the game is evolving into flag football that allows for blocking (above the waist) and tackling. The rules are getting to complex and open to intepertation by the refs. Last night I watched whilethe refs called almost everything they could see holding. Tuesday in the Cotton Bowl they let it almost all go except in the most extreme  cases. My point is not to rake the refs over the coals but to point out how when they first allowed players to get their hands away from their body to block they only allowed the players to only push. Now they are grabbing and even getting their arms outside the defenders chest area and even hooking their arms around to the back grabbing and getting away with it. It is becoming a wrasslin match on the lines and this is not the football that I grew up loving. I would almost be willing to go back to blocking below the waist and getting the hands back into the body next to the chest. For sure passing would drop off significantly and defense would come back into vogue. The way things are going ther e is going to be no such thing as consistent great defense for even the best of them are going to give up a ton of points from time to time when the other team is at that magical level. Before you point it out I will beat you to it, yes I am old and old fashioned and getting out of touch with the new reality but I do miss the grand old game of real football. Don't get me wrong because as this seemingy arms race escalates I do embrace Petrino because you do have to keep abreast of the new game today but I must admit I am confused where this new game is going and will the craziness of this season become even more crazy? sigh

I did read through your post... it's hard to keep track of points in that layout though.

Football is evolving.  It's easy to say that changes have been made to sell more tickets and increase ratings, but I think the bottom line is that coaches want to win and are finding the most efficient way of doing it. 



I think you are defining talent as 'big and strong'.  That's definitely the 'traditional' way to build a team, and most definitely one that Arkansas fans can get their heads around given the history our program has.
--Oklahoma has great talent on both sides of the ball for the style they choose to employ. 
--For the style of football WVU uses, they have the best talent in the nation bar none.  Oklahoma could not cope with or adapt to WVU's style of offense, and could not escape WVU's swarming defense.



The points regarding the Ark/Missouri game are wasted... talent and style of play had little to do with the outcome of that game. 


Rules have always been open to interpretation by refs... I would say if anything they are more defined now that in year's past however. 
Since you mention recent games and lack of defense I give you Georgia handling Hawaii as a counter.  GA was thoroughly prepped on how to handle Hawaii's style of play, and used their superior talent up front to pummel Brennan.

As far as your mentioning blocking below the waist and the absence of it, I can assure you this is universally welcomed by anyone who has ever been chop-blocked. 



I guess I fail to see anything gimmicky about WVU's attack -

-I saw a running quarterback who had the ability to sell the run and then throw if open.

-I saw misdirection plays which have been used since the inception of football.

-I saw a bigass fullback rumble down the sidelines for a score after some excellent blocking.

-I saw plenty of OU defenders fail to keep containment and follow that up with poor examples of tackling... also one of the fundamentals for football since it's inception.



I daresay the better team won, and they'd likely do it again.








memphishog

Quote from: PolishPigPower on January 03, 2008, 01:05:54 pm
Okay... I can't help but fear what I'm reading as I go through this thread.  We've been legitimately complaining and moaning and groaning about having absolutely no passing attack in Fayetteville since Clint Stoerner and Joe Ferguson (as coach) left the Hill.  Now that we have a passing game on the way, I'm reading where everyone wants to see the game become more physical and "pound the football".

Someone please, please, please correct me if I am wrong, but are we at least running the risk here of at least sounding like we are already complaining about not running the football enough in an old-time style?   :-\

i think it is an overall philosophy discussion. Winning is winning, I really don't care how you do it. Just observations is all.

Hawgon

I think we may see an evolution back to smaller players as well, at least on the lines.  The giant offensive lineman, no matter what his 40 time, is simply going to have a hard time containing a smaller, but still big, guy who can really move.  OU's big linemen last night simply couldn't contain the smaller and quicker WVU defensive line.

Play a lot of guys in the box to stop the run.  Play a lot man coverage and unleash the hounds of hell on every passing attempt seems to be a pretty successful way of playing defense nowadays. 

memphishog

yeah i'm not sure i'd give all the praise to the 3-3-5 scheme like the announcers were...but WV would rotate one LB and bring up one person from the secondary and the OU tackles were not quick enough to stop the outside speed rush.

JLaws

I thought the same thing, then I watched the Georgia/Hawaii game. Shotgun spread didn't save Hawaii while Georgia ran much more traditional formations. And if Virginia Tech manhandles Kansas, then 2 out of 3 of these trendy offenses will have lost this week.
"Fan is short for FANATIC! You people ARE INSANE!" - Colin Cowherd

"When you have the opportunity to be with the sexiest girl or the smartest football coach, you take it and worry about what happens if they leave when they leave." -writer's quote when UA hired Petrino

Immensehog

Quote from: WilsonHog on January 03, 2008, 11:50:50 am
I hope we never get to the point where football is more about finesse that about just being able to line up and physically whip your opponent's ass.
'


I believe we are there.
Life is short.  Act accordingly.

want2be

Quote from: Hawgon on January 03, 2008, 01:40:04 pm
I think we may see an evolution back to smaller players as well, at least on the lines.  The giant offensive lineman, no matter what his 40 time, is simply going to have a hard time containing a smaller, but still big, guy who can really move.  OU's big linemen last night simply couldn't contain the smaller and quicker WVU defensive line.

Play a lot of guys in the box to stop the run.  Play a lot man coverage and unleash the hounds of hell on every passing attempt seems to be a pretty successful way of playing defense nowadays. 



Good point of def strategy.........I like Petrino's offense because it is so balanced between the pass and run...Also anytime you can run 10 plays from the same formation you can keep the defense unbalanced, no matter what their size is......He is a pefect mix of ol school and new school, so that he can adjust when needed.

GrantWalker

I don't like the way offense has changed in the last 20 or so years.  I think the spread is finesse,wimp football.  However, like I heard Bobby Bowden say many years ago, I don't like change, but I hate losing even more.  If the rules are geared for the spread, then I guess that's what we have to do.

The Marmot



This may be the best MMQB thread I have seen since I joined. +1
I was booooorn to love you... I was booooorn to lick your face... I was booooorn to rub you... but you were born to rub me first - Ty Webb

Quote from: WilsonHog on October 28, 2014, 06:59:50 pm
The fact that you can type the words doesn't stop the thought behind those words from being horseshit.

GO HOGS!!!!!!!

tiber

Quote from: GrantWalker on January 03, 2008, 01:51:51 pm
I don't like the way offense has changed in the last 20 or so years.  I think the spread is finesse,wimp football.  However, like I heard Bobby Bowden say many years ago, I don't like change, but I hate losing even more.  If the rules are geared for the spread, then I guess that's what we have to do.

How do you feel about the improved facemasks in recent years... or maybe the air bladder in helmets?

I think you get where I'm going with this.

The Marmot

Quote from: GrantWalker on January 03, 2008, 01:51:51 pm
I don't like the way offense has changed in the last 20 or so years.  I think the spread is finesse,wimp football.  However, like I heard Bobby Bowden say many years ago, I don't like change, but I hate losing even more.  If the rules are geared for the spread, then I guess that's what we have to do.

Part of the problem that is being discussed on here, the "wimpiness" of football and all the rule changes, is also attributable to the PC, protective, nobody-should-ever-get-hurt mentality of society these days.

I'm not making a judgement call about this, just putting it out there. There are alot of suffering, old ex-ball players in the world today.
I was booooorn to love you... I was booooorn to lick your face... I was booooorn to rub you... but you were born to rub me first - Ty Webb

Quote from: WilsonHog on October 28, 2014, 06:59:50 pm
The fact that you can type the words doesn't stop the thought behind those words from being horseshit.

GO HOGS!!!!!!!

memphishog

and i don't thing anything will stop that trend.....the "PC protective" mentality.

memphishog

not that it should...the less we see injuries like kevin everett the better

hogsanity

Quote from: The Marmot on January 03, 2008, 02:03:05 pm
Part of the problem that is being discussed on here, the "wimpiness" of football and all the rule changes, is also attributable to the PC, protective, nobody-should-ever-get-hurt mentality of society these days.

I'm not making a judgement call about this, just putting it out there. There are alot of suffering, old ex-ball players in the world today.

In a game based on collisions injuries will always be a problem, immediate and long term.  I still think it has more to do with the "entertainment" aspect and the fact that, given a choice, people would rather see 41-38 as opposed to 10-7.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

AckaBacka

Quote from: GrantWalker on January 03, 2008, 01:51:51 pm
I don't like the way offense has changed in the last 20 or so years.  I think the spread is finesse,wimp football.  However, like I heard Bobby Bowden say many years ago, I don't like change, but I hate losing even more.  If the rules are geared for the spread, then I guess that's what we have to do.
Wimp football?  Just because someone uses their brains to beat guys that are bigger and stronger?  Thats like saying the US military is waging a wimp war because they use high tech weapons developed by smart people instead of physically killing folks with their bare hands and brute strength.  Look im sure that neanderthals were not real big on change either but look what happened to them.  Mankind doesn't rule the earth due to his incredible physical strength, but due to his intelligence and ability to adapt to any situation.  Wimp football my ass.

Theolesnort

January 03, 2008, 02:34:29 pm #90 Last Edit: January 03, 2008, 02:36:35 pm by Theolesnort
Quote from: tiber on January 03, 2008, 01:34:28 pm
I did read through your post... it's hard to keep track of points in that layout though.

Football is evolving.  It's easy to say that changes have been made to sell more tickets and increase ratings, but I think the bottom line is that coaches want to win and are finding the most efficient way of doing it. 



I think you are defining talent as 'big and strong'.  That's definitely the 'traditional' way to build a team, and most definitely one that Arkansas fans can get their heads around given the history our program has.
--Oklahoma has great talent on both sides of the ball for the style they choose to employ. 
--For the style of football WVU uses, they have the best talent in the nation bar none.  Oklahoma could not cope with or adapt to WVU's style of offense, and could not escape WVU's swarming defense.



The points regarding the Ark/Missouri game are wasted... talent and style of play had little to do with the outcome of that game. 


Rules have always been open to interpretation by refs... I would say if anything they are more defined now that in year's past however. 
Since you mention recent games and lack of defense I give you Georgia handling Hawaii as a counter.  GA was thoroughly prepped on how to handle Hawaii's style of play, and used their superior talent up front to pummel Brennan.

As far as your mentioning blocking below the waist and the absence of it, I can assure you this is universally welcomed by anyone who has ever been chop-blocked. 



I guess I fail to see anything gimmicky about WVU's attack -

-I saw a running quarterback who had the ability to sell the run and then throw if open.

-I saw misdirection plays which have been used since the inception of football.

-I saw a bigass fullback rumble down the sidelines for a score after some excellent blocking.

-I saw plenty of OU defenders fail to keep containment and follow that up with poor examples of tackling... also one of the fundamentals for football since it's inception.



I daresay the better team won, and they'd likely do it again.








I think you missed the over all point I was trying to make. Blame me for not being as coherent as I wanted to be. The over all point was where is this game headed and as far as the Ark Missouri game reference I think it is valid. Lots of things that I didn't mention to think about such as with such a scheme why was Hewitt not manning the middle at linebacker instead of Dacus who had not a chance in covering that much open space? Also many other puzzles. To say that the OU outcome would be the same again if they played again is just biased thinking against OU though I have to admit bias against them too. I do live in the Fort Smith area and their fans are insufferable. To be honest I watched several West Virginia games and no they could play until the cows come home and never reach that magical level again so then I will agree to disagree with the statement that they would continue to beat OU over and over because they are better. I guess Michigan would continue to beat Florida while losing to The Div 2 team they lost to also over and over with your point of view. Don't get mad but just think about this. The equalizer, the spread. Does it not make you think of a glorified game of flag football the way they spread everything out and then get the ball into the open spaces. This would not be possible if the blocking rules were not so liberal today. There would not be enough time for receivers to get open and qb's to set up in the pocket. The passing attack would be play action like the old days. Watch New England they almost do not need a running back. It is flag football at it's best while still allowing them to tackle. Anyway the game is changing and one thing I will admit to the older you get,the more you resist change. That is one reason I took early retirement a few years ago. I have to admit I am more comfortable with the things I understand and am familiar with.

There's Nuttin in the world worth a solitary dime cept Old dogs and children and watermelon wine.

wholehog92

As a group of football fans, we are looking at the beginning of a new style of football.  I would rather watch a pro-style attack that is well executed than a spread that is well executed.  The only way to keep this type of offense in check at this point is to change the rules on blocking and pass defending.  If this is not done, eventually defenses will be looking for smaller quicker Dlineman more like a linebacker and linebackers will be reduced to 1 big middle guy shadowing their blocking back and OLB guys that are more like DBs.  Then Nebraska will re-emerge with those cornfed brutes on the OLine and 1 genetic freak in the backfield that carries a whole defense on his back down the field.  I also agree that lacking a rule change (unlikely) and until a shift occurs in the athlete on defense, turnovers will become more and more important.  The team with the most posessions wins. 
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BaggerHog

Quote from: Theolesnort on January 03, 2008, 11:32:03 am
Wow I don't know anymore but after last night and the Oklahoma debacle I question just where football is going with the Spread Offense and the wide splits and spreading the field where the most physically talented team is no longer winning the vast majority of the time. Yes, they still win most of the time but it seems that a physically under talented team can over come almost any obstacle when they are at a magical level and the other team is just playing at their average level, Last years Boise State - Oklahoma game is an example and Oklahoma - West Virginia is another example but to a lesser extent. Yes I know West Virgina is talented but I watched them to much this year to think they were more talented than Oklahoma. Same way with our Missouri game, there is no way that Missouri is that much more talented than Ark. The truth is they are pretty close in over all talent but better coached and they were at that magical level much like West Virginia was last night. With the rule changes of the last couple of decades it almost seems that the game is evolving into flag football that allows for blocking (above the waist) and tackling. The rules are getting to complex and open to intepertation by the refs. Last night I watched while the refs called almost everything they could see holding. Tuesday in the Cotton Bowl they let it almost all go except in the most extreme  cases. My point is not to rake the refs over the coals but to point out how when they first allowed players to get their hands away from their body to block they only allowed the players to only push. Now they are grabbing and even getting their arms outside the defenders chest area and even hooking their arms around to the back grabbing and getting away with it. It is becoming a wrasslin match on the lines and this is not the football that I grew up loving. I would almost be willing to go back to blocking below the waist and getting the hands back into the body next to the chest. For sure passing would drop off significantly and defense would come back into vogue. The way things are going ther e is going to be no such thing as consistent great defense for even the best of them are going to give up a ton of points from time to time when the other team is at that magical level. Before you point it out I will beat you to it, yes I am old and old fashioned and getting out of touch with the new reality but I do miss the grand old game of real football. Don't get me wrong because as this seemingy arms race escalates I do embrace Petrino because you do have to keep abreast of the new game today but I must admit I am confused where this new game is going and will the craziness of this season become even more crazy? sigh
You have hit the nail squarely on the head.

You and I have seen a different era in the game. It's hard to adjust to the new thoughts of present day football. I still like the football that was played in the earlier era. It's a different game today than it was in the past. It does appear to be grade school playground football but in order to keep up with the trend we must also do it.

Discipline among the players has disappeared. The days of making a good play and going back to your position for the next play is over. We now have to endure the dancing around and strutting (look at me, look what I done). This all started in the NFL with the spike of the ball and from that it has evolved into the circus we now see in the NFL and on the college fields.

Officiating is pathetic. I am so tired of seeing the officials huddle and talk about a simple motion or offsides penalty for a minute or more before making the call. Officiating really took a turn for the worse when the head official was given a mic. Penalties appeared too increased greatly at that time. When a penalty occurs the PA announcer can announce the penalty for those to dumb to understand the signals while the yardage is being enforced. There is no need to take several minutes to enforce a penalty.

I can adjust to the difference in the style of game but find it very difficult to adjust to the lack of discipline among the players and the poor (non-consistent) officiating.

I admit that some of this borders on the context of the way this thread has headed but it still applies to the title of the thread "is this real football anymore".     

macgyver hawg

Nolan Richardson didn't coach old school basketball either.  It was hard to defend.
Without good players coaches caught on.

We aren't seeing a change just to change.  Teams are defending better what used to work.  That's why there's no option football in the pros.  They know how to defend it.

PiggyBack

Quote from: Theolesnort on January 03, 2008, 11:32:03 am
Wow I don't know anymore but after last night and the Oklahoma debacle I question just where football is going with the Spread Offense and the wide splits and spreading the field where the most physically talented team is no longer winning the vast majority of the time. Yes, they still win most of the time but it seems that a physically under talented team can over come almost any obstacle when they are at a magical level and the other team is just playing at their average level, Last years Boise State - Oklahoma game is an example and Oklahoma - West Virginia is another example but to a lesser extent. Yes I know West Virgina is talented but I watched them to much this year to think they were more talented than Oklahoma. Same way with our Missouri game, there is no way that Missouri is that much more talented than Ark. The truth is they are pretty close in over all talent but better coached and they were at that magical level much like West Virginia was last night. With the rule changes of the last couple of decades it almost seems that the game is evolving into flag football that allows for blocking (above the waist) and tackling. The rules are getting to complex and open to intepertation by the refs. Last night I watched while the refs called almost everything they could see holding. Tuesday in the Cotton Bowl they let it almost all go except in the most extreme  cases. My point is not to rake the refs over the coals but to point out how when they first allowed players to get their hands away from their body to block they only allowed the players to only push. Now they are grabbing and even getting their arms outside the defenders chest area and even hooking their arms around to the back grabbing and getting away with it. It is becoming a wrasslin match on the lines and this is not the football that I grew up loving. I would almost be willing to go back to blocking below the waist and getting the hands back into the body next to the chest. For sure passing would drop off significantly and defense would come back into vogue. The way things are going ther e is going to be no such thing as consistent great defense for even the best of them are going to give up a ton of points from time to time when the other team is at that magical level. Before you point it out I will beat you to it, yes I am old and old fashioned and getting out of touch with the new reality but I do miss the grand old game of real football. Don't get me wrong because as this seemingy arms race escalates I do embrace Petrino because you do have to keep abreast of the new game today but I must admit I am confused where this new game is going and will the craziness of this season become even more crazy? sigh

I feel the same way about baseball.  Pitchers like Gibson, Drysdale, and Koufax along with owners wanting to get more butts in the seats led MLB to lower the mound in 1969.  Ballparks have gotten progressively smaller and smaller and the hitters (just like today's QB's) are more coddled now more than ever.  Do you think Barry Bonds would have been able to stand with his right elbow on top of home plate for Bob Gibson or Don Drysdale?  Today, however, you can be ejected for hitting a batter if the umpire "thinks" you did it on purpose.  Crazy. 

Football today is no different.  Fans want to see touchdowns (Home Runs) and not defensive grudge matches (Pitching Duels).  The purest in me longs for the old days.  The capitalist in me says that the markets dictate the current climate.  Oh well, go HOGS and go CARDS!
Huggers react to facts and reason the way Linda Blair reacts to holy water.

http://allythigpen.com/woo2.swf

Theolesnort

 I knew when I started this I would open myself to criticism from the younger guys. I am old and resistant to change. The younger guys are just that, young and have never experienced  a sloberknocking defensive game of the 60's. Who is more in the right? I have no clue. All I know is that the new generation like the scoring and excitement of the present. It just go's kind of against the grain and the football purist in me. The game I remember and loved was the Auburn game year before last and even the year before that when at our place Auburn came out in the second half and tore our butts up by mixing in a few passes but driving the ball down our throat. We did not like it but it was beautiful football.
There's Nuttin in the world worth a solitary dime cept Old dogs and children and watermelon wine.

want2be

  Each team has the same number of players and the same rules

  If the wheel can be reinvented then more credit the evolution

   It just helps if you are ahead of the curve rather than behind

       

The Marmot

Quote from: Theolesnort on January 03, 2008, 03:10:12 pm
I knew when I started this I would open myself to criticism from the younger guys. I am old and resistant to change. The younger guys are just that, young and have never experienced  a sloberknocking defensive game of the 60's. Who is more in the right? I have no clue. All I know is that the new generation like the scoring and excitement of the present. It just go's kind of against the grain and the football purist in me. The game I remember and loved was the Auburn game year before last and even the year before that when at our place Auburn came out in the second half and tore our butts up by mixing in a few passes but driving the ball down our throat. We did not like it but it was beautiful football.

Its not about right or wrong. All of this is purely subjective, and this thread has been a great discussion of many opinions...... and it hasnt been derailed.
I was booooorn to love you... I was booooorn to lick your face... I was booooorn to rub you... but you were born to rub me first - Ty Webb

Quote from: WilsonHog on October 28, 2014, 06:59:50 pm
The fact that you can type the words doesn't stop the thought behind those words from being horseshit.

GO HOGS!!!!!!!

Hawgon

All of these post nothwitstanding, you beat the spread just like you beat the option.  You take good athletes and you have them run a disciplined defensive scheme where everyone stays in their lanes and never misses their assignments.  Discipline is the key to beating the spread.

wholehog92

Quote from: Hawgon on January 03, 2008, 03:46:25 pm
All of these post nothwitstanding, you beat the spread just like you beat the option.  You take good athletes and you have them run a disciplined defensive scheme where everyone stays in their lanes and never misses their assignments.  Discipline is the key to beating the spread.

This plus great open field tackling.
My personal list of trolls so that I can remember not to reply to them:  Pigs Been Fly, gohogsgo006, hanksampson, no3putts, HarryGoat, Oxbaker, Olmissbydamn, LocalHawg, Thatguy, Masterhog, servicesupport, Razorhawg09, Big Poppa Z,  $100 Handshake, Poloprince.

List of folks that reasonable conversation will not happen:  Iron Hog, Jman, hognot, Solomwi, hogfan1111x, pigzwillrise.

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