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Where Would Arkansas Place/Finish in other Conferences and Divisions

Started by MuskogeeHogFan, July 24, 2017, 07:59:23 pm

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MuskogeeHogFan

I was thinking about this today and looking at numbers and finishes for all of the P-5 teams I thought it might be interesting to try to determine on average over a number of years, where Arkansas might place or finish in other conferences and divisions in P-5.

I'll start with the SEC.

SEC West: Most years we are going to finish on average around 4th to 5th in the West. It's not only the most competitive Division in college football, it may be the most competitive Conference.

SEC East: I think that most years we could finish anywhere from 2nd to 3rd in the East.

Pac 12 North: 2nd to 3rd most years.

Pac 12 South: Again, 2nd to 3rd most years.

Big 12: 2nd to 4th most years.

Big Ten East: Slightly better than the SEC West where we might finish 3rd to 4th each year.

Big Ten West: I think we would do very well in this division, 1st to 3rd every year.

ACC Atlantic: It looks like we would be around a 3rd to 4th place finish each year.

ACC Coastal: 1st to 3rd each year on average.

Of course most of these results would either end in Won-Loss records in some divisions that are similar to what we have been achieving or being bumped up to 9 to 11 wins each year in others. I'm sure you can tell which are which.

JFB made a business decision in moving us from the old SWC to the SEC and from that standpoint, it has been great for the student athletes of the University and its facilities. It's been a lot tougher on the W-L record, but good for the school and the various programs overall.

Would you move to the ACC, Big Ten or Big 12 given these projections? Would you leave the SEC West and go with Texas, Oklahoma and Baylor to the Pac 12? (It's an example)

I like where we are, but it is a tough ride some weekends though it pays off for the school and the athletic programs from a financial standpoint.

Would it be worth the move to another conference/division just to win more games each year?
Go Hogs Go!

go hogues

Nice post.

I wouldn't want to leave. As middling as our recruiting is, it would be worse if we weren't selling the SEC.
Quote from: Leadbelly on September 24, 2019, 09:05:22 pm<br />Dude, our back has been against the wall so long, we are now on the other side of the wall!<br />

 

TNRazorbacker

Playing in another division would be better for us fans but not as good for the university. Moving to the SEC was never about winning.

bphi11ips

Life is too short for grudges and feuds.

East Clintwood

I wish we would have gone to the Big 8 when we left the SWC but I wouldn't want to make that move today.
Any dog can be a seeing eye dog if you don't care where you're going.

          Like  blows - Bring back Karma

MultipleScoreGasms

Quote from: East Clintwood on July 25, 2017, 03:42:55 am
I wish we would have gone to the Big 8 when we left the SWC but I wouldn't want to make that move today.

If the benefits pointed out in the OP remained the same, I would prefer a move to the B12, but with a different cast of characters.
  I would like the regional match ups better, and I have always felt we are better when we play/recruit Texas heavily.  The teams I would prefer to see (ignoring divisions) are below.

1. Arkansas
2. OU
3. OK State
4. Kansas
5. Kansas State
6. TCU
7. Baylor
8. Houston
9. Texas Tech
10. aTm
11. Nebraska
12. Missouri

I'm a little of a throw back, so this is just my wet dream.


MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: TNRazorbacker on July 24, 2017, 10:27:31 pm
Playing in another division would be better for us fans but not as good for the university. Moving to the SEC was never about winning.

And that is really what I was getting at in this thread.

A lot of times there is complaining about recruiting and playing in a division that is so difficult, but how much greener is the grass on the other side of the fence? What do you give up by being in another conference and what do you gain? Our biggest potential gain would be by joining the Big Ten West, but what is the likelihood of that? Zippo.

Our culture, traditions and our heritage is based in the south. Want to go jump into an unstable Big 12? I wouldn't. We are right where we belong. It may difficult from a competitive standpoint but you can see that we might gain little from being anywhere else.
Go Hogs Go!

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: MultipleScoreGasms on July 25, 2017, 06:24:23 am
If the benefits pointed out in the OP remained the same, I would prefer a move to the B12, but with a different cast of characters.
  I would like the regional match ups better, and I have always felt we are better when we play/recruit Texas heavily.  The teams I would prefer to see (ignoring divisions) are below.

1. Arkansas
2. OU
3. OK State
4. Kansas
5. Kansas State
6. TCU
7. Baylor
8. Houston
9. Texas Tech
10. aTm
11. Nebraska
12. Missouri

I'm a little of a throw back, so this is just my wet dream.



I understand where you are coming from and in some ways, it might be a little like coming home to "get the band back together", well, some of the band anyway. But that isn't going to happen anytime in the near future unless in 2024-2025 the Big 12 makes a ginormous offer to Nebraska, Missouri, A&M and Arkansas to come to the Big 12 and I don't think that there is enough money to pull one team back from the Big Ten, two back from the SEC and get Arkansas to leave the SEC as well.

And, they aren't going to kick W. Virginia out either so you might as well include them and go to 14 teams by getting the Colorado t.v. market back by adding Colorado State. Now could that 14 team conference survive? Probably and ESPN would be in favor of it because it would give them an excuse to ditch the LHN. But I would be o.k. with a muzzled Texas staying in that conference and leaving one of Colorado State or Houston (probably Houston) out of the mix.

But this thread was about where we could go and find more fertile ground in a different conference and personally, I think we are right where we should be.
Go Hogs Go!

hawginbigd1

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 24, 2017, 07:59:23 pm
I was thinking about this today and looking at numbers and finishes for all of the P-5 teams I thought it might be interesting to try to determine on average over a number of years, where Arkansas might place or finish in other conferences and divisions in P-5.

I'll start with the SEC.

SEC West: Most years we are going to finish on average around 4th to 5th in the West. It's not only the most competitive Division in college football, it may be the most competitive Conference.

SEC East: I think that most years we could finish anywhere from 2nd to 3rd in the East.

Pac 12 North: 2nd to 3rd most years.

Pac 12 South: Again, 2nd to 3rd most years.

Big 12: 2nd to 4th most years. 1st to 3rd

Big Ten East: Slightly better than the SEC West where we might finish 3rd to 4th each year.

Big Ten West: I think we would do very well in this division, 1st to 3rd every year.

ACC Atlantic: It looks like we would be around a 3rd to 4th place finish each year. 1st to 3rd

ACC Coastal: 1st to 3rd each year on average. 1st or 2nd

Of course most of these results would either end in Won-Loss records in some divisions that are similar to what we have been achieving or being bumped up to 9 to 11 wins each year in others. I'm sure you can tell which are which.

JFB made a business decision in moving us from the old SWC to the SEC and from that standpoint, it has been great for the student athletes of the University and its facilities. It's been a lot tougher on the W-L record, but good for the school and the various programs overall.

Would you move to the ACC, Big Ten or Big 12 given these projections? Would you leave the SEC West and go with Texas, Oklahoma and Baylor to the Pac 12? (It's an example)

I like where we are, but it is a tough ride some weekends though it pays off for the school and the athletic programs from a financial standpoint.

Would it be worth the move to another conference/division just to win more games each year?
Just my opinion ACC is thought of more highly than they actually play most of the time, I mean for a half we made the team that should have beat their NC look like they were silly before we imploded on their home turf basically. It is a 2 team league really.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on July 25, 2017, 05:13:24 pm
Just my opinion

It would help in responding to you if you would just post your opinion instead of strikethroughs and commenting and making changes to the original post, but o.k., I'll play.

We might contend for the Big12 occasionally. If Texas ever gets it going again (and they will) and having Oklahoma to deal with, it's difficult to see us being more than 3rd to 4th most of the time. Just too big of a recruiting advantage for those two teams and you still have to contend with TCU, Oklahoma State and Baylor may not stay down forever.

1st to 3rd in the ACC Atlantic with Clemson, Florida State and Louisville to deal with? I'll have some of what you are having. It must be pretty good stuff.

ACC Coastal, well we essentially say the same thing though I could see a "3rd" in there occasionally.

Go Hogs Go!

ShadowHawg

I don't remember dominating the Swc after integration. Why would we be dominant in other conferences?

We can do better than we are currently even in the sec west.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: ShadowHawg on July 25, 2017, 06:55:19 pm
I don't remember dominating the Swc after integration. Why would we be dominant in other conferences?

We can do better than we are currently even in the sec west.

There is more parity in college football and we are several years post-integration. A team that usually comes in around 4 to 5 in the SEC West can and will do better in other conferences/divisions. Not all, as mentioned above, but most. That said, I'm not sure I would consider any move to any conference whatsoever, unless the Big 12 made a move as described in a couple of posts above. Then, it might be worth it. But that isn't even likely to happen. Other than that unlikely move, I like where we are.
Go Hogs Go!

ShadowHawg

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 25, 2017, 07:00:07 pm
There is more parity in college football and we are several years post-integration. A team that usually comes in around 4 to 5 in the SEC West can and will do better in other conferences/divisions. Not all, as mentioned above, but most. That said, I'm not sure I would consider any move to any conference whatsoever, unless the Big 12 made a move as described in a couple of posts above. Then, it might be worth it. But that isn't even likely to happen. Other than that unlikely move, I like where we are.

I do too.

But we would be more like in with the OSU, Tech,TCU, Baylor area of the Big 12. I look at our record against Mizzou, TT, A&M, and TCU and and see .500

These are all Big 12 members or refugees. I just think that being on the Big 12 really wouldn't boost our win total significantly, SEC West member or not.

 

bennyl08

Quote from: hawginbigd1 on July 25, 2017, 05:13:24 pm
Just my opinion ACC is thought of more highly than they actually play most of the time, I mean for a half we made the team that should have beat their NC look like they were silly before we imploded on their home turf basically. It is a 2 team league really.

Yes and no. Their teams lack consistency. However, look at physical talent in the league and the ACC is right behind the SEC most years.

It wasn't just our team imploding. The VT team imploded in the first half before playing like they should have played all game in the 2nd half, epitomizing the inconsistency of the ACC. Just look at what their players did in the combine/pro day this season and what VT has put into the draft in recent years. They have some high end talent that goes much deeper than just FSU and Clemson. Louisville, NC State, VT, and NC have all put in some top talent to the NFL. However, each of those are teams that could just as easily beat a team like Clemson as they could lose to a team like Vandy.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

j-mann

Sec -w 3rd or 4th
East 2nd or 3rd   
Big ten  East 4th or 5th
West 1st or 2nd   
Pac 12 North 2nd-3nd
South  2nd-3nd 
Big 12 3td-6th   
ACC A 4th
Acc 2nd or 3td   
AAc 1st   in west 2nd in  east   
Sun beit most years 1st this year 2nd   
Mac West 2nd  East 1st 
C-usa  2nd in east 1st in west   
MWC 2nd in moun  1st in west     
calling the hogs from Jonesboro    i have  cerebral  palsy  Rheumatoid arthritis   and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome   i cannot space  well  or spell well   but i still  love the hogs

Hawghiggs

 What if we didn't have to join the Big 12? What if we just rebuilt the SWC. It would have the name recognition that is important. The SWC could get a ACC type of network. Plus we could set the conference payout based on overall placement. This would lead to greater conference payouts for Arkansas. Which seems to be important. The SWC also could have a championship game.

    ( New SWC )

1, Arkansas
2, Houston
3, New Mexico
4, Oklahoma
5, Oklahoma state
6, SMU
7, TCU
8, Texas
9, Texas Tech


jkstock04

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 24, 2017, 07:59:23 pm
I was thinking about this today and looking at numbers and finishes for all of the P-5 teams I thought it might be interesting to try to determine on average over a number of years, where Arkansas might place or finish in other conferences and divisions in P-5.

I'll start with the SEC.

SEC West: Most years we are going to finish on average around 4th to 5th in the West. It's not only the most competitive Division in college football, it may be the most competitive Conference.

SEC East: I think that most years we could finish anywhere from 2nd to 3rd in the East.

Pac 12 North: 2nd to 3rd most years.

Pac 12 South: Again, 2nd to 3rd most years.

Big 12: 2nd to 4th most years.

Big Ten East: Slightly better than the SEC West where we might finish 3rd to 4th each year.

Big Ten West: I think we would do very well in this division, 1st to 3rd every year.

ACC Atlantic: It looks like we would be around a 3rd to 4th place finish each year.

ACC Coastal: 1st to 3rd each year on average.

Of course most of these results would either end in Won-Loss records in some divisions that are similar to what we have been achieving or being bumped up to 9 to 11 wins each year in others. I'm sure you can tell which are which.

JFB made a business decision in moving us from the old SWC to the SEC and from that standpoint, it has been great for the student athletes of the University and its facilities. It's been a lot tougher on the W-L record, but good for the school and the various programs overall.

Would you move to the ACC, Big Ten or Big 12 given these projections? Would you leave the SEC West and go with Texas, Oklahoma and Baylor to the Pac 12? (It's an example)

I like where we are, but it is a tough ride some weekends though it pays off for the school and the athletic programs from a financial standpoint.

Would it be worth the move to another conference/division just to win more games each year?
I would support the move in a heartbeat. The cowtown of Stillwater, Oklahoma has a more successful football program than us and they sit 2 hours from campus. Hilarious when you hear the detractors "can't recruit to Fayetteville" when considering Stillwater.

It's not right that a program like that in a location like that gets so much more success than us in everything (football wise). Chaps my ass when I see it. Does it not yours? Us being in this conference affords us to see some big time programs play...and helps the rich people continue to get richer. That's about the only long term positive.
Thanks for the F Shack. 

Love,

Dirty Mike and the Boys

LZH

I've said countless times that I'd rather win less in the SEC than play in the B12 and win a little more. My gripes over 7-6 seasons aren't about the conference we're in, they're about two of our last three coaches underachieving.

Mike_e

Sweet home Ala..  no wait

Southern ma..   no wait

Aw shucks you all, let's just stay right here.
The best "one thing" for a happy life?
Just be the best person that you can manage.  Right Now!

Hogwild

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 24, 2017, 07:59:23 pm

SEC East: I think that most years we could finish anywhere from 2nd to 3rd in the East.

Pac 12 North: 2nd to 3rd most years.


Big Ten East: Slightly better than the SEC West where we might finish 3rd to 4th each year.



I think you were spot on with most of your groupings, but these three seem overly optimistic.


MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Hogwild on July 26, 2017, 09:15:39 am
I think you were spot on with most of your groupings, but these three seem overly optimistic.



I think we could compete quite well most years with Georgia, Florida, Missouri and Tennessee in the East. Would you rather face them or Alabama, Auburn, LSU and Texas A&M each year?

In the Pac 12 North who do you have to deal with every year? Stanford is always there and I expect Oregon to make a come back, Washington is resurgent but only as long as they keep their Coach. Who else? Washington State throws for a ton of yards but they were still just an 8-5 team.

In the Big Ten East there will always be Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State and Michigan State will make a come back, but that is basically a 4 team division. I feel confident that we could finish 3rd or 4th most years in that division.
Go Hogs Go!

hogsanity

So, based on the OP, the program would not fare much better anywhere else. Still would not win the division and have no chance to win a conf title. You have to ask, then, is the program simply not good enough to EVER reach AND maintain elite status.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hogsanity on July 26, 2017, 10:13:48 am
So, based on the OP, the program would not fare much better anywhere else. Still would not win the division and have no chance to win a conf title. You have to ask, then, is the program simply not good enough to EVER reach AND maintain elite status.

No, those were just averages based on my opinion of the data that I collected and looked at. Unscientific, just an opinion. But no, that wasn't what I was saying. I think if you look at the ACC Coastal Div and the Big Ten West we could be right in the fight for the Division Championship and perhaps earn a trip to a CCG.

Additionally, anytime you stand a chance of being #2 in a division, I think you are going to occasionally slip into the #1 spot. But on average, 2nd and 3rd most of the time. Still that provides a chance to be in the #1 spot occasionally in both divisions of the Pac 12 and in the Big 12.

The odds of a higher finish and more wins are probably greater in those that I listed because finishing 3rd in the SEC West is usually a pretty good year for us. But again, what would we be giving up by moving to other Divisions/Conferences?
Go Hogs Go!

Hogwild

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 26, 2017, 09:55:46 am
I think we could compete quite well most years with Georgia, Florida, Missouri and Tennessee in the East. Would you rather face them or Alabama, Auburn, LSU and Texas A&M each year?


In the Pac 12 North who do you have to deal with every year? Stanford is always there and I expect Oregon to make a come back, Washington is resurgent but only as long as they keep their Coach. Who else? Washington State throws for a ton of yards but they were still just an 8-5 team.

In the Big Ten East there will always be Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State and Michigan State will make a come back, but that is basically a 4 team division. I feel confident that we could finish 3rd or 4th most years in that division.

Big Ten East is a 4 team division and all four of those teams(Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, and Penn St.) would finish ahead of us on a regular basis. I don't see us finishing ahead of 2 of those 4, but once in a blue moon.  There is a better chance that the division's cellar dweller, Rutgers, would beat us than us knocking off a blue blood, much less two of them.

Pac 12 North- Stanford and Oregon would finish ahead of us on a regular basis. We are very similar to Oregon State's program, I think we would be battling Oregon State and Washington for the 3rd-5th spot.

SEC East- Since 2000, 17 seasons and 4 head coaches, we have losing records to Missouri, Kentucky, Florida, Tennessee, and Georgia during that span. 
If we lose to South Carolina this season, the only team that we would have a winning record against in the East would be Vandy.  I don't see how one could think we would "2nd or 3rd"  on a regular basis.

 

The NewEra

Muskogee, I think you are a little low, one and in some cases two games.  My main reason for saying that are these: 
1)  The week to week pounding you take in the SECW is unlike any other division or conference. 
2)  This league has 2-3 big play makers on each side of the ball across the board
3) The defenses in this league are on average consistently better, more physical and more athletic than any other league
4) Homefield advantage across the board in this league means more to the home team than in the other conferences.

Just my take. 

RazorWest

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 24, 2017, 07:59:23 pm
I was thinking about this today and looking at numbers and finishes for all of the P-5 teams I thought it might be interesting to try to determine on average over a number of years, where Arkansas might place or finish in other conferences and divisions in P-5.

I'll start with the SEC.

SEC West: Most years we are going to finish on average around 4th to 5th in the West. It's not only the most competitive Division in college football, it may be the most competitive Conference.

SEC East: I think that most years we could finish anywhere from 2nd to 3rd in the East.

Pac 12 North: 2nd to 3rd most years.

Pac 12 South: Again, 2nd to 3rd most years.

Big 12: 2nd to 4th most years.

Big Ten East: Slightly better than the SEC West where we might finish 3rd to 4th each year.

Big Ten West: I think we would do very well in this division, 1st to 3rd every year.

ACC Atlantic: It looks like we would be around a 3rd to 4th place finish each year.

ACC Coastal: 1st to 3rd each year on average.

Of course most of these results would either end in Won-Loss records in some divisions that are similar to what we have been achieving or being bumped up to 9 to 11 wins each year in others. I'm sure you can tell which are which.

JFB made a business decision in moving us from the old SWC to the SEC and from that standpoint, it has been great for the student athletes of the University and its facilities. It's been a lot tougher on the W-L record, but good for the school and the various programs overall.

Would you move to the ACC, Big Ten or Big 12 given these projections? Would you leave the SEC West and go with Texas, Oklahoma and Baylor to the Pac 12? (It's an example)

I like where we are, but it is a tough ride some weekends though it pays off for the school and the athletic programs from a financial standpoint.

Would it be worth the move to another conference/division just to win more games each year?


jst01

I believe that a move to say..the Big 12 would not hinder recruiting. I don't think a primary reason for recruits choosing AR is that we play in the SEC. It may be a consideration to some, but its not a huge factor. 

In my opinion, if the school consistently wins, finishes in top 3 in conference, plays in bowl games, has a strong tradition, loyal fanbase and features superior facilities...recruits will want to play here. I also believe it would allow MANY more fans to follow the team on the road (aside from going to W Virg) to see the Hogs play.

I also believe that the majority of fans would not care whether we are beating Iowa State or Mississippi State on any given Saturday. And in the same way I don't think most fans would care whether we were getting beat by Oklahoma or LSU on any given Saturday.

bennyl08

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 26, 2017, 09:55:46 am
I think we could compete quite well most years with Georgia, Florida, Missouri and Tennessee in the East. Would you rather face them or Alabama, Auburn, LSU and Texas A&M each year?

In the Pac 12 North who do you have to deal with every year? Stanford is always there and I expect Oregon to make a come back, Washington is resurgent but only as long as they keep their Coach. Who else? Washington State throws for a ton of yards but they were still just an 8-5 team.

In the Big Ten East there will always be Ohio State, Michigan and Penn State and Michigan State will make a come back, but that is basically a 4 team division. I feel confident that we could finish 3rd or 4th most years in that division.

It depends on what sort of time scale are we talking about. The way the teams are right now, yes, most years we could compete quite well with the SEC east teams you mention. However, that is because UGA and Florida are way way below what both of those teams have been for the past couple of decades. 8-5 is a bad year for Georgia. They are typically a team that is right there on par with Bama as evidenced by their championship games against the tide and the NFL draft where over the past decade, Georgia has been the type of team that beats arkansas by an unspeakable score when we play them. Our peak team was barely able to beat a 6-7 bulldog team. Similarly with Florida. Over the past nearly 30 years, they have been a team that more often than not is at the same tier as a Bama, Ohio State, USC. Go back before Spurrier and they weren't though. So, right now, yeah, we'd do better in the east than the west, but if we are talking decadal scales, UGA/UF is going to be just as tough as Bama/LSU with Tenner replacing Auburn. Vandy and Kentucky make the bottom of the schedule a bit easier in football though.

For the PAC north, you kind of have Stanford and Washington flipped. Stanford is not the big dog in that conference. Washington is. Stanford has had a few peaks, but they have not had recent success until Harbaugh and Shaw has sustained that. If Shaw goes, their program likely goes as well. UW, otoh, is been uncharacteristically weak in the past decade and will most likely regress back to their mean of being a perennial double digit win team. Oregon is a bit tougher, but they weren't particularly good until Kelley, and his replacement saw the team regressing back to being an 7-9 win team.

With the coaches that are at those Big 10 schools right now, I wouldn't be confident. Meyer is quite arguably a better coach than Saban. Saban has more total rings than Urban, but is a decade older and has fewer championships per year than Urban. Harbaugh is an amazing coach, especially as it comes to program building. Took Stanford from nothing to a perennial rose bowl team only rivaled out west by Oregon. Took one of the worst teams at the time in the NFL in the Niners and made them a short term power. Now he's taken michigan from being on hard times back to a 10+ win team that can go toe to toe with anybody else in the country. How long he stays there is a question. Mich St has been very good under Dantonio but if he leaves, they probably regress. Penn St has traditionally been quite the power school as well and seem to be back to their old success as well. If we could sustain the 2010 level of success as a team, then yeah, we'd probably average 3rd to 4th with a few chances at 2nd or maybe first here and there. As our team currently stands, we'd be happy to get up to 3rd in that division right now IMO. However, I expect our team to keep improving and I think we'll close to that next year if our new DC can bring our defense up to say 45th in the country.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

Hogwild

QuoteFor the PAC north, you kind of have Stanford and Washington flipped. Stanford is not the big dog in that conference. Washington is. Stanford has had a few peaks, but they have not had recent success until Harbaugh and Shaw has sustained that. If Shaw goes, their program likely goes as well. UW, otoh, is been uncharacteristically weak in the past decade and will most likely regress back to their mean of being a perennial double digit win team. Oregon is a bit tougher, but they weren't particularly good until Kelley, and his replacement saw the team regressing back to being an 7-9 win team.


Washington really took a down turn under Whillingham, who actually won while at Stanford, but seem to have righted the ship. Oregon was a solid program under Mike Bellotti, one losing season in his 15 years, and should have played for the national title in 2001.

We are a vary similar to Oregon State program, I think we would be finish between 3rd and 5th in that division.

bennyl08

Quote from: Hogwild on July 26, 2017, 02:19:35 pm

Washington really took a down turn under Whillingham, who actually won while at Stanford, but seem to have righted the ship. Oregon was a solid program under Mike Bellotti, one losing season in his 15 years, and should have played for the national title in 2001.

We are a vary similar to Oregon State program, I think we would be finish between 3rd and 5th in that division.

Yeah, when I was telling people at a beaver game that I was an SEC fan, I suddenly got a lot of dirty looks. When they asked me which team, I said Arkansas and the dirty looks went away.

We are a better team than Oregon State for sure though. OSU will quite frequently not make a bowl game or barely make a bowl game. We have had 8 seasons since joining the SEC in 1992 where we didn't make a bowl game. Oregon State has 14. OSU has had 8 8+ win seasons in that span to our 11 with 2 double digit seasons in that span to our 3.

We aren't ridiculously better than they are, but they have over 50% more bowl less seasons than we do. I'd put us somewhere more like one of the Arizona schools, though they are in the south division and not the north. Maybe a Cal. 
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

longtimeHogfan

We're in exactly the right place at exactly the right time.  Don't change nuttin'.  Gettin' there's half the fun....
I don't like to plan my day because then the word premeditated comes into the conversation.

redleg

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 24, 2017, 07:59:23 pm
I was thinking about this today and looking at numbers and finishes for all of the P-5 teams I thought it might be interesting to try to determine on average over a number of years, where Arkansas might place or finish in other conferences and divisions in P-5.

I'll start with the SEC.

SEC West: Most years we are going to finish on average around 4th to 5th in the West. It's not only the most competitive Division in college football, it may be the most competitive Conference.

SEC East: I think that most years we could finish anywhere from 2nd to 3rd in the East.

Pac 12 North: 2nd to 3rd most years.

Pac 12 South: Again, 2nd to 3rd most years.

Big 12: 2nd to 4th most years.

Big Ten East: Slightly better than the SEC West where we might finish 3rd to 4th each year.

Big Ten West: I think we would do very well in this division, 1st to 3rd every year.

ACC Atlantic: It looks like we would be around a 3rd to 4th place finish each year.

ACC Coastal: 1st to 3rd each year on average.

Of course most of these results would either end in Won-Loss records in some divisions that are similar to what we have been achieving or being bumped up to 9 to 11 wins each year in others. I'm sure you can tell which are which.

JFB made a business decision in moving us from the old SWC to the SEC and from that standpoint, it has been great for the student athletes of the University and its facilities. It's been a lot tougher on the W-L record, but good for the school and the various programs overall.

Would you move to the ACC, Big Ten or Big 12 given these projections? Would you leave the SEC West and go with Texas, Oklahoma and Baylor to the Pac 12? (It's an example)

I like where we are, but it is a tough ride some weekends though it pays off for the school and the athletic programs from a financial standpoint.

Would it be worth the move to another conference/division just to win more games each year?

SEC East - Arkansas would be a division title contender every year in the East. 1st - 3rd every year.
Big XII - A winnable conference, Arkansas' biggest competition would be from OU, OSU, and sometimes TCU or WVU. 1st - 3rd, with a conference championship at least once every five years.
Pac 12 North - With the rise of Washington, the slide of Oregon, and the consistency of Stanford, the Hogs would finish 1st - 3rd, winning the division every couple of years.
Pac 12 South - USC is the annual favorite here, Colorado was a fluke, Hogs finish 1st - 3rd, winning the division at least once every five years.
Big Ten East - second toughest division in college football, the Hogs would be hard pressed to win it, likely finish 2nd - 4th.
Big Ten West - Arkansas would battle Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska annually to win the division once or twice every five years. Some great games would be played here. 1st - 3rd.
ACC Atlantic - the third toughest division in college football, Hogs would be hard-pressed to beat FSU and Clemson consistently, 3rd - 4th.
ACC Coastal - a winnable division, more great games to be played versus Va Tech, UNC, Miami, and Ga Tech. 1st - 3rd, winning the division every three to five years.

The SEC West is the toughest division in college football, especially as long as Saban is at Alabama. The Tide will slip a little once Saban finally retires, but they will still be relevant and still be good. Auburn is inconsistent, bad some years, good some years, great every once in awhile. LSU has the in-state talent to be good for years to come, unless they hire a bad head coach (which I think they might have done with Orgeron...I hope). The Mississippi schools will never be consistent division title hopefuls, and that will especially be the case once Dan Mullen finally realizes he won't ever win an SEC championship at Miss St, and leaves for a better school. Texas A&M is the school that worries me the most. They have a very large recruiting base in their own back yard, and was (in my opinion) the second worst team for Arkansas that could have joined the SEC, Texas being the worst. I will be glad when the contract in Arlington runs out and we can get these games at home stadiums.
If it ain't broke, fix it till it is.

Hogwild

Quote from: bennyl08 on July 26, 2017, 02:51:27 pm
Yeah, when I was telling people at a beaver game that I was an SEC fan, I suddenly got a lot of dirty looks. When they asked me which team, I said Arkansas and the dirty looks went away.

We are a better team than Oregon State for sure though. OSU will quite frequently not make a bowl game or barely make a bowl game. We have had 8 seasons since joining the SEC in 1992 where we didn't make a bowl game. Oregon State has 14. OSU has had 8 8+ win seasons in that span to our 11 with 2 double digit seasons in that span to our 3.

We aren't ridiculously better than they are, but they have over 50% more bowl less seasons than we do. I'd put us somewhere more like one of the Arizona schools, though they are in the south division and not the north. Maybe a Cal.

I wasn't talking all-time history with Frank Broyles era, but if you look at the 21st century we are very similar programs.

Since 2000- 17 football seasons, combined 7 head coaches, with both teams current head coach having been hired away from Wisconsin.

Number of 6+ losses seasons- Arkansas 8  Oregon State 7
Number of 10+ win seasons- Arkansas 3 Oregon State 2
Bowl wins- Arkansas 5 Oregon State 7
BCS Bowl wins- Arkansas 0 Oregon State 1
Conference Titles- Arkansas 0 Oregon State 1
Top 5 finishes- Arkansas 1 Oregon State 1
Top 25 finishes (AP)- Arkansas 3 Oregon State 5

NuttinItUp

Quote from: longtimeHogfan on July 26, 2017, 03:06:36 pm
We're in exactly the right place at exactly the right time.  Don't change nuttin'.  Gettin' there's half the fun....

I won't ever change.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: redleg on July 26, 2017, 03:13:24 pm
SEC East - Arkansas would be a division title contender every year in the East. 1st - 3rd every year.
Big XII - A winnable conference, Arkansas' biggest competition would be from OU, OSU, and sometimes TCU or WVU. 1st - 3rd, with a conference championship at least once every five years.
Pac 12 North - With the rise of Washington, the slide of Oregon, and the consistency of Stanford, the Hogs would finish 1st - 3rd, winning the division every couple of years.
Pac 12 South - USC is the annual favorite here, Colorado was a fluke, Hogs finish 1st - 3rd, winning the division at least once every five years.
Big Ten East - second toughest division in college football, the Hogs would be hard pressed to win it, likely finish 2nd - 4th.
Big Ten West - Arkansas would battle Wisconsin, Iowa, and Nebraska annually to win the division once or twice every five years. Some great games would be played here. 1st - 3rd.
ACC Atlantic - the third toughest division in college football, Hogs would be hard-pressed to beat FSU and Clemson consistently, 3rd - 4th.
ACC Coastal - a winnable division, more great games to be played versus Va Tech, UNC, Miami, and Ga Tech. 1st - 3rd, winning the division every three to five years.

The SEC West is the toughest division in college football, especially as long as Saban is at Alabama. The Tide will slip a little once Saban finally retires, but they will still be relevant and still be good. Auburn is inconsistent, bad some years, good some years, great every once in awhile. LSU has the in-state talent to be good for years to come, unless they hire a bad head coach (which I think they might have done with Orgeron...I hope). The Mississippi schools will never be consistent division title hopefuls, and that will especially be the case once Dan Mullen finally realizes he won't ever win an SEC championship at Miss St, and leaves for a better school. Texas A&M is the school that worries me the most. They have a very large recruiting base in their own back yard, and was (in my opinion) the second worst team for Arkansas that could have joined the SEC, Texas being the worst. I will be glad when the contract in Arlington runs out and we can get these games at home stadiums.


I would hate to see Dan Mullen hired by Texas A&M and by the way...Sumlin's seat is pretty warm. His AD even came out and put him on notice that more of the same, isn't going to get the job done. Wowsers.

Mullen's contract at Miss St runs through 2018 so I am sure the pain of that buyout would be easier to take. But Sumlin's 6 year deal that was effective 1/1/14, pays him 30 mil over that term and if he is terminated without cause prior to the end of his contract term, he still gets the full amount of his contract money that remains. So for simple math if he is paid 5 mil each year and he is fired in December after the 2017 season, he would still walk away with a check for about $10 mil. So to change coaches at A&M after this season would probably cost A&M 10 mil, plus Mullen's buyout of 1.4 mil and then whatever they would pay Mullen. So not exactly a piece of cake to get done.
Go Hogs Go!

Hogtimes

Quote from: hogsanity on July 26, 2017, 10:13:48 am
So, based on the OP, the program would not fare much better anywhere else. Still would not win the division and have no chance to win a conf title. You have to ask, then, is the program simply not good enough to EVER reach AND maintain elite status.

Elite status? No.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Hogtimes on July 26, 2017, 05:20:54 pm
Elite status? No.

"Elite status" is defined differently on a national media bias from one conference and sometimes by one division to another. If Arkansas came in 1st in the Big Ten West, the ACC Coastal, the Big 12 or one of the Pac 12 Divisions, they would be considered to be "Elite" by the national media. But coming in 3rd or 4th in the SEC West isn't equated to be "Elite", though you play in a division of elite teams when compared to other conferences and divisions. It is all relative in reality, but not in the eyes of the national media.
Go Hogs Go!

bennyl08

Quote from: Hogwild on July 26, 2017, 03:31:40 pm
I wasn't talking all-time history with Frank Broyles era, but if you look at the 21st century we are very similar programs.

Since 2000- 17 football seasons, combined 7 head coaches, with both teams current head coach having been hired away from Wisconsin.

Number of 6+ losses seasons- Arkansas 8  Oregon State 7
Number of 10+ win seasons- Arkansas 3 Oregon State 2
Bowl wins- Arkansas 5 Oregon State 7
BCS Bowl wins- Arkansas 0 Oregon State 1
Conference Titles- Arkansas 0 Oregon State 1
Top 5 finishes- Arkansas 1 Oregon State 1
Top 25 finishes (AP)- Arkansas 3 Oregon State 5

Man, really shows how changing the data period can change the results.
Quote from: PorkSoda on May 05, 2016, 09:24:05 pm
damn I thought it was only a color, didn't realize it was named after a liqueur. leave it to benny to make me research the history of chartreuse

12247

I believe we would benefit in recruiting if we were in the Big 12.  We would end up being the average 3rd or 4th place team there over several years.  We likely could pull out a first place on rare occasion but far more often than in the SEC.  We are what you see in the SEC.  Too many good teams in the SEC to hope the leaders falter in the same season and let us in.  Over in the B12, this upcoming season might be an example of a season of opportunity.  OU with a new coach as with Texas and OSU 2 or 3 injuries away from any chance at all.  W. Vir runs all over the country half the time which should take its toll on them.  Could be the year that an Arkansas type team could ease into contention and win the conference.

We have 22 years of history and can see exactly how we stack up in the SEC.  Our recruiting suffers due to the coaches we choose, the system we operate, and the record we offer.  Neither OU nor OSU has much if anything to offer recruits as to location that is better then we have.  OU has rep and attitude and they go win.  OSU is getting better.  We likely could get back in Texas and mine our share of recruits if we played there much.  No real reason for the SEC states to provide us with classy recruits when they have several schools closer to home to show their talents.   If you are a top player in the southeast, you got FLA, FLA ST, GA, TN, Clem, NC, AUB, ALA, LSU, Louisville and maybe A&M you can consider before dipping down to us.  You could add VT, SC, and a few others.  Joining the SEC and having undesirable system coaches or idiots like Nutt has removed the edge we used to have in recruiting.  I do not believe Black players avoid us due to location.  Once again, OU and OSU get good Black Kids in high numbers.  We have management issues and have had for 25 or more years.  We are making money playing .600 ball and getting half our wins against Rent a Wins.  We are what we are.

hogsanity

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 26, 2017, 08:12:37 pm
"Elite status" is defined differently on a national media bias from one conference and sometimes by one division to another. If Arkansas came in 1st in the Big Ten West, the ACC Coastal, the Big 12 or one of the Pac 12 Divisions, they would be considered to be "Elite" by the national media. But coming in 3rd or 4th in the SEC West isn't equated to be "Elite", though you play in a division of elite teams when compared to other conferences and divisions. It is all relative in reality, but not in the eyes of the national media.

Arkansas is NEVER going to reach AND STAY AT elite level, they just do not get enough elite level players.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

Hawghiggs

Quote from: 12247 on July 26, 2017, 09:34:47 pm
I believe we would benefit in recruiting if we were in the Big 12.  We would end up being the average 3rd or 4th place team there over several years.  We likely could pull out a first place on rare occasion but far more often than in the SEC.  We are what you see in the SEC.  Too many good teams in the SEC to hope the leaders falter in the same season and let us in.  Over in the B12, this upcoming season might be an example of a season of opportunity.  OU with a new coach as with Texas and OSU 2 or 3 injuries away from any chance at all.  W. Vir runs all over the country half the time which should take its toll on them.  Could be the year that an Arkansas type team could ease into contention and win the conference.

We have 22 years of history and can see exactly how we stack up in the SEC.  Our recruiting suffers due to the coaches we choose, the system we operate, and the record we offer.  Neither OU nor OSU has much if anything to offer recruits as to location that is better then we have.  OU has rep and attitude and they go win.  OSU is getting better.  We likely could get back in Texas and mine our share of recruits if we played there much.  No real reason for the SEC states to provide us with classy recruits when they have several schools closer to home to show their talents.   If you are a top player in the southeast, you got FLA, FLA ST, GA, TN, Clem, NC, AUB, ALA, LSU, Louisville and maybe A&M you can consider before dipping down to us.  You could add VT, SC, and a few others.  Joining the SEC and having undesirable system coaches or idiots like Nutt has removed the edge we used to have in recruiting.  I do not believe Black players avoid us due to location.  Once again, OU and OSU get good Black Kids in high numbers.  We have management issues and have had for 25 or more years.  We are making money playing .600 ball and getting half our wins against Rent a Wins.  We are what we are.

Nobody likes the truth. Great Post.

hogsanity

Quote from: 12247 on July 26, 2017, 09:34:47 pm


  Our recruiting suffers due to the coaches we choose, the system we operate, and the record we offer. 


Recruiting suffers because of whee the Hogs are. Draw a 300 mile circle around Fayetteville and see how many SEC signess come from that circle. Now do the same for Bama, Lsu, TN, FL, Aub, GA, SC and A&M. The numbers are staggering. With almost the same population, Mississippi produces something like 6 times the # of SEC recruits than does the state of AR.
People ask me what I do in winter when there is no baseball.  I will tell you what I do. I stare out the window, and I wait for spring.

"Anything goes wrong, anything at all, your fault, my fault, nobodies fault, I'm going to blow your head off."  John Wayne in BIG JAKE

HogFoo

This is a good thread.   But, i am gonna focus mostly on a certain team from a certain conf.  i have a lot of friends who are OU fans.  And I often get into arguments with them.   In fact, have been getting into a lot lately.  Especially since they also like E.Gooden.         Anyways.   Everytime they start yapping about OU this or OU that, it reminds me why i hate OU so much.   

Like I've told my friends who are OU fans when they start questioning why a player would choose the Hogs over OU.   I'm like, because it just means more if you can win in the SEC than it does in any other conf.    that's why.   The  recruits know that the SEC is like the NFL-DL!  They play against more future NFL players than they ever will at any other school in another conf.  Of course then the OU guys start trying to say how many conf. championships they've won, how many players this or that...  and I'm like,  well,  OU  is a top team in a weak conf.  seriously.  winning 7-8 games in the SEC is like winning 10games+ in the big12.   The hogs could probably go to the big12 an probably be immediate perennial contenders in that conf probably instantly if we ever went there.     Where as, if OU came to the SEC,  they'd be a slightly above mediocre team at best.  Wouldn't have had half the success they've had in the same span of time since the Hogs been in the SEC.   I mean, i figure they'd pretty much be about where Arkansas has been since we entered the conf.  they may have had just a little bit more success... but i cant see them being a top team in this conf. the way they are in the big12.    Of course then my friends start trying to say how Mizz and aTm came in and had immediate success... of course i point out where mizz is at now... and how aTm was able to instantly benefit in recruiting.  especially with a down Texas.   but even then, still aren't really that great.   Anyways.. it just gets to back and forth jabs.   they throw jabs at Bielema.  saying how he's on the hotseat.. and of course i tell them how their coach Riley will be on the hotseat as soon as he loses to Texas coached by Herman.  Especially since Stoops did the quick switch with not allowing OU time to find a suitable replacement..  but of course they deny that.. saying how Riley was being groomed or whatever.. haha.. ok.. let's see how it goes once he loses..   

Which, during my arguments and comparisons with OU..  i realized that if we were counting players that actually were Bielema's recruits.  We've put the same amount of players into the NFL over the last 2yrs as OU has.    I only counted players from 2 years because the OU fans started telling me the rest were Petrino players.  Which , that is fine...for argument's sake, we  will just  count the last 2yrs for Bielema at arkansas.   
    TheOU fans were trying to argue how great OU was this or that, and I'm like, well,  you know, for a team that is supposed to be so great, Bielema has had the exact same amount of Arkansas players go into the NFL as OU has!  which that shut up a lot of my buddies.   Of course they brought up again how Arkansas hasn't won much in the SEC and how OU has won this or that, and then beat Bama a few years ago.. which, that part is true.  They have won a lot of games.  And they did beat Bama a few years ago.  But, like i told them..  Winning and losing in the SEC is just much harder than in the Big12.  That part can't be taken lightly.  People just need to understand that.  And that goes for our own fans as well!  This is a very very tough conf. to win in! In fact, it is THE TOUGHEST!  We were headed in the right direction until Petrino screwed us and  then JL just basically took us to the deepest darkest depths of suckville that a team could ever possibly go too!   He also basically didn't recruit either that year that he wasted in Fayetteville.  When  Bielema came in with what, 3weeks or so left before signing day. He basically performed a miracle and got a pretty dang good recruiting class for such a short of time to recruit.   

    Anyways... just for shizz and giggles....  Last year in the NFL draft.   The Big12 only put like 14players into the NFL compared to like 55 or so from the SEC.  Look at that comparison!  55 to 14!!  Now of those 14 i think OU had like 4 of them.  But, as for us making a switch to the Big12,  i think if we did, that we'd definitely be an immediate contender!  We'd definitely be a top 4 team probably every year!  Of course OU fans don't want to hear any of it.  they just think that because they are one of the strongest in a weak conf. that that just means they are the greatest team ever.    Of course, when I'm done arguing with them, i always mention that the greatest thing about OU is that their best coach was a former Hog.  (Switzer)  and that usually shuts them up for a little bit. =-) 

Anyways.. that's my big12 OU rant.   hahaha... just had another argument earlier today about it.. so it's fresh on my mind.  haha...  I agree with Musky tho,  we'd be probably a top tier team in any other conference we were in.  It's just that we are doing it in the SEC where the toughest of the tough teams happen to all be.  it's harder to win here.   but... it just means more when we do!   
Basketball is back, baseball always, football was a dumpster fire once again..... but as the phoenix rose from the ashes, BMF Petrino has risen again!!! Lots to look forward to.  <br /><br />As the rain falls, I realize, that some where out there, some one, is wearing a mask while they shower............

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: hogsanity on July 26, 2017, 09:52:05 pm
Arkansas is NEVER going to reach AND STAY AT elite level, they just do not get enough elite level players.

That really wasn't the point that I was making with the post that you quoted.
Go Hogs Go!

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Hogwild on July 26, 2017, 03:31:40 pm
I wasn't talking all-time history with Frank Broyles era, but if you look at the 21st century we are very similar programs.

Since 2000- 17 football seasons, combined 7 head coaches, with both teams current head coach having been hired away from Wisconsin.

Number of 6+ losses seasons- Arkansas 8  Oregon State 7
Number of 10+ win seasons- Arkansas 3 Oregon State 2
Bowl wins- Arkansas 5 Oregon State 7
BCS Bowl wins- Arkansas 0 Oregon State 1
Conference Titles- Arkansas 0 Oregon State 1
Top 5 finishes- Arkansas 1 Oregon State 1
Top 25 finishes (AP)- Arkansas 3 Oregon State 5

Let's just look at the last 3 years.

                         247 Avg Recruiting(2013-2016)          Won-Lost            %              SOS             Avg Div Rank(2014-16)
Oregon State:                    56.0                                  11-25             .306            .553                         5.3

Arkansas:                          24.5                                  22-17             .564            .606                         5.0

I'm not sure that the two of them have much in common unless you want to look at where each of them usually finishes in their individual divisions.
Go Hogs Go!

Hogwild

Quote from: bennyl08 on July 26, 2017, 08:51:53 pm
Man, really shows how changing the data period can change the results.


During the Jeff Long era our record has taken a major hit, 29-43 in conference play. Combine that with OOC losses to ULM, Toldeo, Rutgers twice, Texas Tech not a pretty picture.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Hogwild on July 27, 2017, 08:39:13 am

During the Jeff Long era our record has taken a major hit, 29-43 in conference play. Combine that with OOC losses to ULM, Toldeo, Rutgers twice, Texas Tech not a pretty picture.

Look, you may not like Long or Bielema, but this is the way some of you guys attack the current HC.

Forget 2013, that was a mess after what BP did and then "Smile".

Since 2014, while I believe that we have underachieved, let me point out that over that time we are 22-17 overall and 10-14 in the SEC. Let me also point out that over that same period of time Auburn has won just 1 more conference game than we have, along with Texas A&M. Tennessee has won 2 more and Ole Miss and Miss State have won just 3 more...over the course of 3 seasons. In addition, facilities are significantly improved and financially, we are in a really great position. 
Go Hogs Go!

Hogwild

Quote from: MuskogeeHogFan on July 27, 2017, 09:20:32 am
Look, you may not like Long or Bielema, but this is the way some of you guys attack the current HC.

Forget 2013, that was a mess after what BP did and then "Smile".

Since 2014, while I believe that we have underachieved, let me point out that over that time we are 22-17 overall and 10-14 in the SEC. Let me also point out that over that same period of time Auburn has won just 1 more conference game than we have, along with Texas A&M. Tennessee has won 2 more and Ole Miss and Miss State have won just 3 more...over the course of 3 seasons. In addition, facilities are significantly improved and financially, we are in a really great position.

I said nothing about Bielema, everything I posted in this thread pre dates him.  I want him to succeed not just because I love the Razorbacks, but I'm scared hell to have Long make another coaching hire.

I stated a fact that since Jeff Long became AD we have a horrible conference record, 14 games below .500.   You posted about the mess and then Smile, who was the person in charge during that time, who hired Smile?

If you are going to cherry pick years, look at the two years prior to Long taking over, we went 11-5 in the SEC with a trip to Atlanta. Does that make Nutt a HOF coach? No, you have to look at the entire body of work.  When you look at the two big programs since Long was hired, (football and basketball) we are well below our historical averages.

MuskogeeHogFan

Quote from: Hogwild on July 27, 2017, 10:22:56 am
I said nothing about Bielema, everything I posted in this thread pre dates him.  I want him to succeed not just because I love the Razorbacks, but I'm scared hell to have Long make another coaching hire.

I stated a fact that since Jeff Long became AD we have a horrible conference record, 14 games below .500.   You posted about the mess and then Smile, who was the person in charge during that time, who hired Smile?

If you are going to cherry pick years, look at the two years prior to Long taking over, we went 11-5 in the SEC with a trip to Atlanta. Does that make Nutt a HOF coach? No, you have to look at the entire body of work.  When you look at the two big programs since Long was hired, (football and basketball) we are well below our historical averages.

Yeah, let's pick a couple of years when the SEC was weaker and we had what was perhaps collectively, the best overall backfield in school history.

I wasn't meaning to cherry pick years, I was trying to use the years under Bielema after he had a chance to get the team back together.

I'll grant you that hiring JLS to be the Interim was a huge mistake and I can't even recall how that came about, if any of us really know. But that was a blunder.

And, if and when the time comes, I'm not worried about Long hiring another football coach. What I hope more so is that whomever that coach might be, that they fully realize the size of the challenge at Arkansas. It isn't like sliding into the Auburn job with all of their advantages and even Gus (other than his first year) hasn't been able to rise regularly to 10 wins/Yr there.
Go Hogs Go!

Hogwild

I chose those two year because the were the two years right before Long took over.

I'm not sure the SEC was weaker then compared to the past two seasons. Last year was the first time in close to 15 years that the SEC wasn't the top conference.

final AP rankings

2006
#1 Florida, #3 LSU #9 Auburn, #15 Arkansas

2007
#1 LSU, #2 UGA, #4 Missouri, #12 Tennessee, #13 Florida, #15 Auburn

2015
#2 Alabama, #13 LSU, #14 Florida

2016
#1 Alabama, #10 Ole Miss