Reasons why The University of Arkansas should never play Arkansas State

[mojopig]

Not really.  If the U of A is going after the same players as A-State on a consistent basis, then something is wrong at the U of A.  Oh, A-State might make a call on a McFadden or Peyton Hillis, but if the U of A is fighting with A-State over a player instead of LSU or Ole Miss or Texas, then it may not be a player worth fighting for, right?

JcS

I might be a little longer in the tooth than you then.... there have been players over the years that asu
has hauled in that the hogs would have loved to have had.  If it is yearly, every 5 years, or once every
10 years....they do compete.  And fan base/support you better believe both want every $ they can get.

I respect your opionion though!

[honkyfool]

Reasons:


6.  It's a no-win deal for the Hogs, why sign on for that just to help a small group that daily prays for your absolute destruction.

I don't think that is the case.  But just supposed they did.  Could you blame them?  Would you support someone or be someones friend who treated you like "dookie"

[HamHands]

Im trying to explain this to a friend of mine and I could use a little help.  I have mentioned us being a small state with a very small recruiting base, a possible loss would loose us booster dollars and many fans.  I also explained that people may stop giving money to the educational side of the University of Arkansas thus lowering the value of the degree in the long term.

I need some more reasons and any economic/educational factors that go with playing a in state team would really help the most (he is not that concerned with our athletic reasons, he instead believes that us playing them would help the population of arkansas the reaches a higher education).

Your reasoning is just plain stupid. The dollars stay in the state and don't go to other directional schools. It would be a boost for the economy. Much less, a great big party.

[phadedhawg]

There are no good reasons for Arkansas not playing Arkansas State. 

It all boils down to fear that we might lose to them. 

At least we would have an excuse to play Ark St unlike our games against Western Illinois and the like.

[Mark Lericos]

 The debate rages on.  And the same posters who were against it before, still are.

  It's time to admit the policy is archaic. To flatly ignore in-state schools out of fear is insane. It's a more interesting non-conference game, would generate more revenue and easily sellout, the list goes on.

  Is there a danger of losing? Sure. But some of you act like the world would end if this happened. Its an upset. So was The Citadel.

  If you don't play anyone in the state, fine. Just don't pretend like its the "right" thing to do. Because Arkansas is on an island in that line of thinking.

[Man_O_Pork]

Is Arkansas being a small state really an excuse?  Oklahoma has about 700,000 more in population but have OU #1, OSU in top 25 and Tulsa probably going into the top 25.  Mississippi has only 200,000 more population and look at those schools, MSU, Ole Piss, Southern Miss, and Tulane.  Seems small state is not really a good reason especially with us playing all the other Sun belt Teams.

I just have to point out that Tulane's in New Orleans, Louisiana, not Mississippi.

[Tripod1]

I just have to point out that Tulane's in New Orleans, Louisiana, not Mississippi.

My bad on that.  i knew that!!!  Mississippi may not have been a good example since Ole Piss and MSU are really never too good!!

[colt-45]

I guess I am missing something on this. Is Arkansas state having trouble finding opponents? Why would Texas A&M paying them to play or Arkansas paying them to play be any different? Are Arkansas $$ worth more? We pay a school like Tulsa to play us. A&M or Auburn or whomever pays Arkansas State to play them. Seems like it all works out to me. The revenue isn't any different that I can see. And as for the whole state wanting to see the game, I am not so sure thats the case. I go to the games we play against Western Illinois just the same as any other because I get season tickets. I really find it hard to believe that those that choose not to go are going to pack the stands because the ASU Red Wolves are in town.

[Hoggish1]

The game will eventually come.  There is nothing that can be done about it.  The better ASU gets, the closer that time comes. 

[Mark Lericos]

I guess I am missing something on this. Is Arkansas state having trouble finding opponents? Why would Texas A&M paying them to play or Arkansas paying them to play be any different? Are Arkansas $$ worth more? We pay a school like Tulsa to play us. A&M or Auburn or whomever pays Arkansas State to play them. Seems like it all works out to me. The revenue isn't any different that I can see. And as for the whole state wanting to see the game, I am not so sure thats the case. I go to the games we play against Western Illinois just the same as any other because I get season tickets. I really find it hard to believe that those that choose not to go are going to pack the stands because the ASU Red Wolves are in town.

Yeah, you're missing the simple fact UTC, Fla International and Western Illinois are rarely ever sellouts. Why? Interest is weak, no fans travel from those schools, etc.

Ergo, money lost. How many fans would ASU bring to Little rock or Fayetteville?  That answers that question.

[Hogginitall]

Yeah, you're missing the simple fact UTC, Fla International and Western Illinois are rarely ever sellouts. Why? Interest is weak, no fans travel from those schools, etc.

Ergo, money lost. How many fans would ASU bring to Little rock or Fayetteville?  That answers that question.

You're missing the simple fact that we'd have to give more money to ASU and that it would probably be played in Little Rock, meaning it's not really money lost.  The games that we play in Little Rock sell out no matter who we play.

[bluegrassboy75]

You're missing the simple fact that we'd have to give more money to ASU and that it would probably be played in Little Rock, meaning it's not really money lost.  The games that we play in Little Rock sell out no matter who we play.

But aren't we already giving money away to play a team that won't sell out (ie. Western Ill, UTC, etc)??  Why not pay ASU and then take the gate at a sellout?  Your argument doesn't make any sense.

[NuttinItUp]

Our state isn't big enough to support such a split over the long term.

Really, its that simple.

[honkyfool]

The ones who are against ASU playing  UA are the same ones  who didn't think Jimmy Johnson was good enough to coach the Razorbacks.

Funny thing though, he was good enough to coach a team that put a major ar$e whipping on the Hogs.  Remember the Hurricanes in Little Rock.

[Hogginitall]

But aren't we already giving money away to play a team that won't sell out (ie. Western Ill, UTC, etc)??  Why not pay ASU and then take the gate at a sellout?  Your argument doesn't make any sense.

Those games did sell out.  Presumably, we'd have to give ASU a bigger portion of the revenues, because they'd be able to claim that they brought more fans.  The only thing that them bringing more fans does is take tickets away from Arkansas fans.

[honkyfool]

  The only thing that them bringing more fans does is take tickets away from Arkansas fans.

OMG  I have heard it all now. 

I suppose when they played Memphis in basketball that took away tickets too.  After the Tigers made a pig roast out of the Razorbacks they seem to have fallen off the schedule. 

With all these insane excuses,  I can see why people around the country think we sleep with our cousins and only take a bath on Saturday nites.

[Razorback Homer]

2.  Tied with #1, the revenue would stay in the State.

Let's just say:
Arkansas pays ULM .5M to play in Little Rock        (.5M goes out of state)
TAMU pays ASU .5M to play in College Station      (.5M comes into the state)

How is the "state" worse off?  Is money from Arkansas worth more than money from Texas?

Next, Arkansas has ULM locked into a long term contract for less money because ULM gets to count the attendance every other year as a home game so that ULM can keep their numbers high enough to stay D1.  ASU needs the money games and would be stupid to agree to take less money just so they could play Arkansas.

8. Utah plays Utah State;  Arizona plays Arizona State; Iowa plays Iowa State; Clemson plays South Carolina; Florida plays FSU AND Miami; USC plays UCLA; Oklahoma plays Oklahoma State AND Tulsa; New Mexico plays New Mexico State; Washington plays Washington State; Oregon plays Oregon State; Ohio State plays Youngtown State; LSU plays Tulane; Georgia plays Georgia Southern and Georgia Tech; Kentucky plays Western Kentucky and Louisville; Michigan State plays Eastern Michigan AND Michigan; Indiana plays Ball State.... I think that's enough for the point.  Yes, I know some of these are conference games, but many are not.  Big time programs act like it.

Half of the schools you listed play in the same conference.  Several of the other matchups you mentioned are between two BCS schools.  Of the others, most do not play each other every year, and some of these are reasonable matchups because they were previously in the same conference (yes Tulane was in the SEC at one time).

How about this.  Which Tennessee school plays Memphis?  Which Mississippi school plays Southern Miss?  Why doesn't Ohio State play Cincinnati?  Why doesn't Penn State play Pitt?

[Hogginitall]

OMG  I have heard it all now. 

I suppose when they played Memphis in basketball that took away tickets too.  After the Tigers made a pig roast out of the Razorbacks they seem to have fallen off the schedule. 

With all these insane excuses,  I can see why people around the country think we sleep with our cousins and only take a bath on Saturday nites.

Listen up.  I'll talk slowly.  The point is, these games in LR sell out no matter what.  The fact that ASU would bring more fans has no bearing on whether or not we sell out War Memorial Stadium.  The only difference between playing ASU there and playing UTC, would be the fact that there would be 15,000 ASU fans instead of 4,000 UTC fans.  The game would still be a sellout, no matter which one we're playing.  Throw in the fact of possibly having to pay them more of the gate, and the argument of "losing money" by playing ULM or UTC instead of ASU becomes increasingly moot.

[nole10591]

Who started this TOPIC Frank or Sunshine Rick  ? Keep the money in state ... A lot of the big schools do it.. LSU ,TEX , OK , TN & The Ohio State etc. etc. ..

[chiefsfan]

Enlighten me then.  Give me a LOGICAL reason the Hogs should play AR. State...other than state bragging rights. 

Whats that logical reason again for the hogs playing UL Monroe every year.   And dont give me the north louisiana recruits bs either

If you used the everything to lose nothing to gain argument, that applies to any guarantee game a team plays

[YouDownwithCoachBP?]

nm

[no one]

I personally don't think we should place each other.  For most of the reasons given above.  I have read a few people say we are keeping the money in state.  This argument doesn't make sense unless there is some huge tax for sending money out of state.  Ar State is not missing a game waiting on us to pay them.  The same amount of money we keep in state, we keep from coming in. 

Sorry Razorbackhomer.  I had not seen your post, but exactly what I was thinking about the money.

[chiefsfan]

I think UCA and ASU should play for now.  I really think in the next 5-10 years, UCA will overshadow ASU...These two directly compete for recruits now....

Explain to me again how the transitional d1AA school is going to overshadow ASU in 5-10 years?

They dont compete for recruits right now.   ASU doesnt even recruit Arkansas that hard, we go out of state for the majority of our top recruits, then pick up the leftovers after Arkansas does its instate recruiting.


Hard to argue that ASU should take the time out of its schedule to play a 1AA school that does nothing for its SOS.   While its alot easier to say that Arkansas would gain alot more RPI and SOS wise if they played ASU over Western Illinois

ASU fans were upset about the policy anyway, but anger really set in the day that Frank made this stupid home game deal with UL monroe...

[honkyfool]

There is NO reason why the University of Arkansas shouldn't play Arkansas State.

[hawgfandude]

Why should the U of A play A-State?  For the same reason there should be a national championship game where there is no doubt as to who is the best.  At the moment, the U of A is cloaked with a mythical "best in state."  The way to prove it is on the field. If it can play a bevy of Sun Belt teams and even 1-AA schools, the Hogs should be able to win the game. 

So, here are the reasons for playing A-State:

1.  U of A is a public school.  It's not like Sears helping Penneys.

2.  Tied with #1, the revenue would stay in the State.

3.  A-State fans will be more likely to come to Fayetteville to spend money than those from Western Illinois or the like.

4.  It will give the Razorbacks an even bigger presence in eastern Arkansas, especially if the game is played in Little Rock.   (Downside here is that the fans from Jonesboro might not have to spend the night, but then again, how many fans came up to see UL-Monroe play?)

5.  It will show the U of A is secure in its manhood.


6.  It would be a game of great interest statewide.

7.  If the vastly superior U of A can't win the game, it dispells the myth of the U of A being vastly superior.

8. Utah plays Utah State;  Arizona plays Arizona State; Iowa plays Iowa State; Clemson plays South Carolina; Florida plays FSU AND Miami; USC plays UCLA; Oklahoma plays Oklahoma State AND Tulsa; New Mexico plays New Mexico State; Washington plays Washington State; Oregon plays Oregon State; Ohio State plays Youngtown State; LSU plays Tulane; Georgia plays Georgia Southern and Georgia Tech; Kentucky plays Western Kentucky and Louisville; Michigan State plays Eastern Michigan AND Michigan; Indiana plays Ball State.... I think that's enough for the point.  Yes, I know some of these are conference games, but many are not.  Big time programs act like it.

JcS
  

Best explaination ever as to why we should play them.  He**, why would we be afraid to play them.  They might beat us 1 out of a 100 times, like when HDN leaves us bare.

[Razorback Homer]

ASU fans were upset about the policy anyway, but anger really set in the day that Frank made this stupid home game deal with UL monroe...

Why would they be so upset?  Right after Arkansas-ULM reached their agreement, ASU and Mizzou announced a similar deal where the game played in Kansas City was considered an ASU home game and ASU got to keep the gate.  ASU was much better off with their deal. 

[jburcka]

Ok well thanks everyone for the help and I can clearly see there are a lot of people on both sides of the fence....

As for me I still dont see any real reason it would EVER be in the University of Arkansas' best interest to play A state.  I hope we never do.  I love the fact this is a one team state and hope to keep it that way.

Thanks again.

[honkyfool]

Ok well thanks everyone for the help and I can clearly see there are a lot of people on both sides of the fence....

I love the fact this is a one team state and hope to keep it that way.

Thanks again.

So you are saying you would not like to see ASU  succeed?

[chiefsfan]

Let's just say:
Arkansas pays ULM .5M to play in Little Rock        (.5M goes out of state)
TAMU pays ASU .5M to play in College Station      (.5M comes into the state)

How is the "state" worse off?  Is money from Arkansas worth more than money from Texas?

Next, Arkansas has ULM locked into a long term contract for less money because ULM gets to count the attendance every other year as a home game so that ULM can keep their numbers high enough to stay D1.  ASU needs the money games and would be stupid to agree to take less money just so they could play Arkansas.


Half of the schools you listed play in the same conference.  Several of the other matchups you mentioned are between two BCS schools.  Of the others, most do not play each other every year, and some of these are reasonable matchups because they were previously in the same conference (yes Tulane was in the SEC at one time).

How about this.  Which Tennessee school plays Memphis?  Which Mississippi school plays Southern Miss?  Why doesn't Ohio State play Cincinnati?  Why doesn't Penn State play Pitt?

Here let me help you with those last questions

Tennessee plays Memphis for a HOME AND HOME starting next season

Ohio State played Cincy a couple years ago, and played Youngstown State and Ohio this year

Southern Miss has stopped playing SEC schools period.  Auburn was the last one this year and that was part of a deal severla years ago.   

Now as for Guarantees

Arkansas is paying Tulsa over 600K to come in and beat them...      Alabama is paying ASU 800,000 dollars to come in this year.  Texas paid 750K last year.   A&M paid 600K this year

ASU is beginning to make enough off attendance and revenue that it does not have to live off more then 1 big money game a year.  We would gladly come to Arkansas for less pay, at worst just for exposure in the Northwest part of the state, to the small pocket of grads we have there

[Justifiable Hogicide]

One of the great things about the Razorbacks is that the entire state, from border to border, all support the Hogs.

It would be foolish in the extreme to dilute that unique and advantageous universal statewide support by promoting rivalries with other instate teams.

[kgr]

+1

[NuttinItUp]

So you are saying you would not like to see ASU  succeed?

I can't answer for him, but I certainly know I would not want them to succeed the expense of the U of A's.

I don't mind them doing well on their own, but there is no reason we should reach down to pull them up at the risk of lowering us.

[chiefsfan]

Why would they be so upset?  Right after Arkansas-ULM reached their agreement, ASU and Mizzou announced a similar deal where the game played in Kansas City was considered an ASU home game and ASU got to keep the gate.  ASU was much better off with their deal. 

the fact is that the Missouri deal was actually not our idea.   Missouri called asking for us to play them two consecutive years.   ASU renigged originally, because we didnt want to sign multi year contracts with BCS teams.   To sweeten the pot, they promised us a game in KC, as a way to give us home attendance, and to expose Missouri to its fans on the Western half of the state

The thing is ASU did not need attendance help then and does not now.   We average too many to have to worry about losing a home game.  We have since switched to playing notable non BCS schools in home and home deals  (Memphis, Southern Miss, Army)   While they dont draw 40,000 people like the mizzou game did, they still draw 25-30K on their own, and we dont have to travel out of the deal

[NuttinItUp]

One of the great things about the Razorbacks is that the entire state, from border to border, all support the Hogs.

It would be foolish in the extreme to dilute that unique and advantageous universal statewide support by promoting rivalries with other instate teams.

Amen

[honkyfool]

It would be foolish in the extreme to dilute that unique and advantageous universal statewide support by promoting rivalries with other instate teams.

Yeah it would after all the Hogs have won how many SEC championships and how many national championships.  Can I borrow your fingers and toes so I can count them all up.   My ten toes and fingers just ain't enough to count them all.

[Hogginitall]

Here let me help you with those last questions

Tennessee plays Memphis for a HOME AND HOME starting next season

Ohio State played Cincy a couple years ago, and played Youngstown State and Ohio this year

Southern Miss has stopped playing SEC schools period.  Auburn was the last one this year and that was part of a deal severla years ago.   

Now as for Guarantees

Arkansas is paying Tulsa over 600K to come in and beat them...      Alabama is paying ASU 800,000 dollars to come in this year.  Texas paid 750K last year.   A&M paid 600K this year

ASU is beginning to make enough off attendance and revenue that it does not have to live off more then 1 big money game a year.  We would gladly come to Arkansas for less pay, at worst just for exposure in the Northwest part of the state, to the small pocket of grads we have there

So, "the state" is making $200,000 extra this year!  Since Alabama is paying $800,000 to ASU instead of the measly $600,000 we're paying Tulsa, "the state" is $200,000 richer!  Great plan by the U of A administrators!

[Hogginitall]

Yeah it would after all the Hogs have won how many SEC championships and how many national championships.  Can I borrow your fingers and toes so I can count them all up.   My ten toes and fingers just ain't enough to count them all.

??

[honkyfool]

??

Point I am trying to make is with all the undivided support the Hogs have in Arkansas how many SEC Championships and how many National Championships have the Hogs won?

[chiefsfan]

So, "the state" is making $200,000 extra this year!  Since Alabama is paying $800,000 to ASU instead of the measly $600,000 we're paying Tulsa, "the state" is $200,000 richer!  Great plan by the U of A administrators!

I think the point is that Arkansas is about to pay a top 25 team 600,000 bucks to come in and beat them

[Razorback Homer]

the fact is that the Missouri deal was actually not our idea.   Missouri called asking for us to play them two consecutive years.   ASU renigged originally, because we didnt want to sign multi year contracts with BCS teams.   To sweeten the pot, they promised us a game in KC, as a way to give us home attendance, and to expose Missouri to its fans on the Western half of the state

The thing is ASU did not need attendance help then and does not now.   We average too many to have to worry about losing a home game.  We have since switched to playing notable non BCS schools in home and home deals  (Memphis, Southern Miss, Army)   While they dont draw 40,000 people like the mizzou game did, they still draw 25-30K on their own, and we dont have to travel out of the deal

And I think the point was that ASU's gate for the KC game was alot more than the spare change we throw at ULM.

[chiefsfan]

And I think the point was that ASU's gate for the KC game was alot more than the spare change we throw at ULM.

That was because the ASU game was a legit "home game" for ASU.   ASU provided the referees, wore the home uniforms, provided the PA announcer, dressed in the home locker room, and we even had Arkansas State painted in the end zone.   Which made it even stupider to keep because we actually were losing a home game for that

the only thing ULM gets out of the Arkansas game is the attendance.   Which makes the 2 situations impossible to compare

[honkyfool]

That was because the ASU game was a legit "home game" for ASU.   ASU provided the referees, wore the home uniforms, provided the PA announcer, dressed in the home locker room, and we even had Arkansas State painted in the end zone.   Which made it even stupider to keep because we actually were losing a home game for that

the only thing ULM gets out of the Arkansas game is the attendance.   Which makes the 2 situations impossible to compare

So the administration is helping another school "cook its book" now there is a boat load of integrity.

[NuttinItUp]

Yeah it would after all the Hogs have won how many SEC championships and how many national championships.  Can I borrow your fingers and toes so I can count them all up.   My ten toes and fingers just ain't enough to count them all.

And so you want to do even worse? That just don't make sense

[chiefsfan]

So the administration is helping another school "cook its book" now there is a boat load of integrity.

essentially yes.   

[honkyfool]

And so you want to do even worse? That just don't make sense

How is gonna be worse?

[NuttinItUp]

How is gonna be worse?

That is the whole point we are discussing, and what you were replying to. Your comment makes even less sense without that presupposition, lol.

[honkyfool]

That was because the ASU game was a legit "home game" for ASU.   ASU provided the referees, wore the home uniforms, provided the PA announcer, dressed in the home locker room, and we even had Arkansas State painted in the end zone.   Which made it even stupider to keep because we actually were losing a home game for that

the only thing ULM gets out of the Arkansas game is the attendance.   Which makes the 2 situations impossible to compare

That is very shameful and unethical if that is the case.  Damn does anyone down there with authority have ANY kind of honor?

[Westcoasthog]

    AGAIN AS I HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER - ALABAMA IS PLAYING ARKANSAS STATE ON THEIR
HOMECOMING THIS YEAR - LSU PLAYS ARKANSAS STATE,   ARKANSAS STATE WILL BE PLAYING IOWA AND NEBRASKA IN 2009 - WHAT IS THE PROBLEM THAT ARKANSAS HAS NOT PLAYING ARKANSAS STATE?  ALL OF THE OTHER STATE SCHOOLS PLAY EACH OTHER -KEEP
THE MONEY  IN THE STATE OF ARKANSAS FOR THIS GAME INSTEAD OF GIVING IT TO OTHER
SUN BELT TEAMS, AND OTHER TEAMS LIKE WESTERN ILLINOIS. 

[hogdiggity]

Explain to me again how the transitional d1AA school is going to overshadow ASU in 5-10 years?

They dont compete for recruits right now.   ASU doesnt even recruit Arkansas that hard, we go out of state for the majority of our top recruits, then pick up the leftovers after Arkansas does its instate recruiting.


Hard to argue that ASU should take the time out of its schedule to play a 1AA school that does nothing for its SOS.   While its alot easier to say that Arkansas would gain alot more RPI and SOS wise if they played ASU over Western Illinois

ASU fans were upset about the policy anyway, but anger really set in the day that Frank made this stupid home game deal with UL monroe...

Whether you know it or not, UCA is on the rise.  They seem to have a real plan on expanding their athletics and aren't backing down.  Their coaching staff is very good, and the AD is leading them in the right direction.  UCA has much more athletic tradition than UCA, see all the NAIA national championships, it is located in a better part of the state for most people to be familiar with it.  Anyway, you can believe it or not, but I think UCA will be a D1 school in 5-10 years and it won't take them as long to establish themselves as it has ASU.

[Hogginitall]

    AGAIN AS I HAVE SAID OVER AND OVER - ALABAMA IS PLAYING ARKANSAS STATE ON THEIR
HOMECOMING THIS YEAR - LSU PLAYS ARKANSAS STATE,   ARKANSAS STATE WILL BE PLAYING IOWA AND NEBRASKA IN 2009 - WHAT IS THE PROBLEM THAT ARKANSAS HAS NOT PLAYING ARKANSAS STATE?  ALL OF THE OTHER STATE SCHOOLS PLAY EACH OTHER -KEEP
THE MONEY  IN THE STATE OF ARKANSAS FOR THIS GAME INSTEAD OF GIVING IT TO OTHER
SUN BELT TEAMS, AND OTHER TEAMS LIKE WESTERN ILLINOIS. 

I can't believe you still don't get it.  You never will.