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Author Topic: More disturbing facts  (Read 5254 times)

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Captain Morgan

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More disturbing facts
« on: November 13, 2017, 02:21:38 pm »

These coaches are pathetic at developing players, check this out in recruiting rankings

2012 Arkansas 27th/Wisconsin 65th
2013 Arkansas 23rd/Wisconsin 40th
2014 Arkansas 29th/Wisconsin 33rd
2015 Arkansas 22nd/Wisconsin 41st
2016 Arkansas 23rd/Wisconsin 36th
2017 Arkansas 25th/Wisconsin 39th
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Razorbackers

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2017, 02:22:59 pm »

Has Wisconsin played a ranked opponent yet?
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hogsanity

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2017, 02:25:36 pm »

These coaches are pathetic at developing players, check this out in recruiting rankings

2012 Arkansas 27th/Wisconsin 65th
2013 Arkansas 23rd/Wisconsin 40th
2014 Arkansas 29th/Wisconsin 33rd
2015 Arkansas 22nd/Wisconsin 41st
2016 Arkansas 23rd/Wisconsin 36th
2017 Arkansas 25th/Wisconsin 39th


Ok, now what were the other big10 teams ranked in recruiting? What were the other sec teams ranked in recruiting?
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Sho Nuff

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2017, 02:25:56 pm »

Has Wisconsin played a ranked opponent yet?
Iowa was ranked, Badgers crushed them.  They do play an easy schedule though.
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rude1

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2017, 02:27:50 pm »

Has Wisconsin played a ranked opponent yet?
Didn't Wi. open the season a year ago beating LSU and end it by beating Auburn? True they have played a weak schedule this year but they showed last season they could play with some SEC teams.
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Next1_04

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2017, 02:28:25 pm »

Iowa was ranked

Stop traffic and call the papers.
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Captain Morgan

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2017, 02:29:59 pm »

Ok, now what were the other big10 teams ranked in recruiting? What were the other sec teams ranked in recruiting?

It just proves these coaches have quit on these players... And this happened along time ago. 24.8 average recruiting ranking to a 42 average recruiting ranking. 24.8 recruiting ranking shouldn't be getting you beat by 3 scores over and over.
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factchecker

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 02:35:13 pm »

Recruiting rankings within their respective conferences.

2013 Arkansas 9th/Wisconsin 7th
2014 Arkansas 11th/Wisconsin 5th
2015 Arkansas 11th/Wisconsin 6th
2016 Arkansas 9th/Wisconsin 6th
2017 Arkansas 10th/Wisconsin 7th

Add the fact that Alabama, Auburn, and LSU are routinely in the top 10 while Wisconsin rarely plays a team that recruits in the top 10.
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Razorbackers

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 02:36:02 pm »

Didn't Wi. open the season a year ago beating LSU and end it by beating Auburn? True they have played a weak schedule this year but they showed last season they could play with some SEC teams.

Interesting. Maybe we should hire their coach.
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hogsanity

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2017, 02:38:35 pm »

Recruiting rankings within their respective conferences.

2013 Arkansas 9th/Wisconsin 7th
2014 Arkansas 11th/Wisconsin 5th
2015 Arkansas 11th/Wisconsin 6th
2016 Arkansas 9th/Wisconsin 6th
2017 Arkansas 10th/Wisconsin 7th

Add the fact that Alabama, Auburn, and LSU are routinely in the top 10 while Wisconsin rarely plays a team that recruits in the top 10.

This year no michigan state, ohio st or penn st.
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oldhog63

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2017, 02:38:49 pm »

We should be a perennial top 25 team with occasional (once a decade or so) top ten appearance. Anything else should be unacceptable.
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hogsanity

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 02:40:29 pm »

We should be a perennial top 25 team with occasional (once a decade or so) top ten appearance. Anything else should be unacceptable.

And you base that on what, other than your desire for it to be so?
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LAGNAF

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 02:41:02 pm »

Has Wisconsin played a ranked opponent yet?

Arkansas opponents records  59 Wins  40 Losses 4 teams played currently ranked


Wisconsin opponents records  46 Wins  55 Losses 0 teams played currently ranked


3 Arkansas opponents currently ranked in top 11
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Hogwild

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2017, 02:52:37 pm »

Didn't Wi. open the season a year ago beating LSU and end it by beating Auburn? True they have played a weak schedule this year but they showed last season they could play with some SEC teams.

They split a pair of neutral site games with LSU, they didn't play Auburn last year.   Wisconsin was in the Cotton Bowl vs PJ Fleck's undefeated team.
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rude1

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #14 on: November 13, 2017, 03:09:55 pm »

They split a pair of neutral site games with LSU, they didn't play Auburn last year.   Wisconsin was in the Cotton Bowl vs PJ Fleck's undefeated team.
Right I was wrong about the Auburn game, they opened the season with a win vs LSU.
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DeltaBoy

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #15 on: November 13, 2017, 03:33:16 pm »

Whiskey kept winning and we went up then the bottom dropped out the past 2 years.
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oldhog63

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #16 on: November 13, 2017, 03:35:18 pm »

And you base that on what, other than your desire for it to be so?
Based on we recruit in the 25ish range and when we have had competent coaches we have been ranked.
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greenie

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2017, 03:37:19 pm »

CBB pretty much did his job recruiting. Fell down pretty hard with the rest of his job the last couple of years.
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HF#1

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2017, 03:37:49 pm »

CBB pretty much did his job recruiting. Fell down pretty hard with the rest of his job the last couple of years.

Did his job recruiting how? By keeping the status quo?
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hogsanity

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2017, 04:40:46 pm »

Based on we recruit in the 25ish range and when we have had competent coaches we have been ranked.

5 times, 5 times in our almost 26 completed seasons in the sec. To compare, we finished ranked 6 times in the 80's alone.

As for the recruiting, yea 25ish, which makes them 10ish in the sec. Going to lose a lot of games when just about everyone in the conference has better players, and much more depth of talent.
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Stewhog 11

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #20 on: November 13, 2017, 05:20:11 pm »

I'm a little confused as to what everyone is arguing about. I think the point of the OP is that Wisconsin's recruiting rankings are much lower than ours but still having better teams. While sure they're playing a much easier schedule than us, they're still better. That's the point. Does anyone think we would beat them this year?
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HogPharmer

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #21 on: November 13, 2017, 05:25:24 pm »

Interesting. Maybe we should hire their coach.

Underrated post
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Tyrant Hog

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #22 on: November 13, 2017, 05:58:56 pm »

This is terrible!!!! Why has Bielema not been FIRED?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
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Mellon Collie

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #23 on: November 13, 2017, 06:09:35 pm »

These coaches are pathetic at developing players, check this out in recruiting rankings

2012 Arkansas 27th/Wisconsin 65th
2013 Arkansas 23rd/Wisconsin 40th
2014 Arkansas 29th/Wisconsin 33rd
2015 Arkansas 22nd/Wisconsin 41st
2016 Arkansas 23rd/Wisconsin 36th
2017 Arkansas 25th/Wisconsin 39th

I understand the point you are making...but...  Rankings such as these mean little to nothing in terms of the actual player talent in relation to each team.  Recruiting rankings are skewed and not scientific in the least and should not be used as an argument to defend or oppose a viewpoint on coaching ability.
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Captain Morgan

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2017, 08:47:56 pm »

I understand the point you are making...but...  Rankings such as these mean little to nothing in terms of the actual player talent in relation to each team.  Recruiting rankings are skewed and not scientific in the least and should not be used as an argument to defend or oppose a viewpoint on coaching ability.

Not coaching ability but the ability to develop the players which Bielema and his goons have no idea on what to do
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Hawg Life

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2017, 08:52:50 pm »

Interesting. Maybe we should hire their coach.


We already tried that!!
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Swestwill66

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2017, 09:00:15 pm »

Just curious, I wonder what TCU recruit ranking and win loss record is for past 5 years ?
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ChicoHog

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2017, 09:07:10 pm »

Recruiting rankings within their respective conferences.

2013 Arkansas 9th/Wisconsin 7th
2014 Arkansas 11th/Wisconsin 5th
2015 Arkansas 11th/Wisconsin 6th
2016 Arkansas 9th/Wisconsin 6th
2017 Arkansas 10th/Wisconsin 7th

Add the fact that Alabama, Auburn, and LSU are routinely in the top 10 while Wisconsin rarely plays a team that recruits in the top 10.
Thank you fact checker.  It's a huge issue when we are ranked that low in recruiting within our conference.  Kudos to Wisconsin for developing players but the Big Ten West is by far the worst division in football although SEC East is not much better. 
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shown006

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2017, 09:12:56 pm »

And you base that on what, other than your desire for it to be so?
It could be based on 2010 through 2011 21-5 record in the most difficult division in the country.  Probably a more realistic goal is Top 3 in the West 3 out of 6 years which will get you in the Top 25 50% of the time, and once in every 10-15 years a run at the playoff.
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Boss Hog in the Arkansas

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2017, 09:23:41 pm »

Didn't Wi. open the season a year ago beating LSU and end it by beating Auburn? True they have played a weak schedule this year but they showed last season they could play with some SEC teams.
They beat an LSU squad with a coach that was being pushed out the door. Les Miles wasnt the same that season
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From Tusk Till Dawn

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #30 on: November 13, 2017, 09:29:44 pm »

I just posted this in another thread:

“In the presser they mentioned 50% of our games over the last 5 years were against ranked opponents and was the most difficult record in either the sec or all of college football, I don’t remember which.  How crazy is that?  Im sure its similar with all sec west schools but curious how that stacks up against other conferences.  Bottom line, not an easy gig”

Not making excuses but during CBB’s time here there are at minimum 4 schools from the west that are typically ranked and those same 4 typically have had top 10ish recruiting classes.
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wendellgee

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #31 on: November 13, 2017, 09:30:47 pm »

We would be bad in any P5 conference. Good thing that Rutgers, Toledo and Texas Tech aren't in the SECW.
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Fan1958

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #32 on: November 13, 2017, 09:36:06 pm »

Recruiting rankings within their respective conferences.

2013 Arkansas 9th/Wisconsin 7th
2014 Arkansas 11th/Wisconsin 5th
2015 Arkansas 11th/Wisconsin 6th
2016 Arkansas 9th/Wisconsin 6th
2017 Arkansas 10th/Wisconsin 7th

Add the fact that Alabama, Auburn, and LSU are routinely in the top 10 while Wisconsin rarely plays a team that recruits in the top 10.

And if Arkansas played Wisconsin's schedule, not sure they wouldn't be 0-9 at this point.
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Jimbob111

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #33 on: November 13, 2017, 10:55:13 pm »

I understand the point you are making...but...  Rankings such as these mean little to nothing in terms of the actual player talent in relation to each team.  Recruiting rankings are skewed and not scientific in the least and should not be used as an argument to defend or oppose a viewpoint on coaching ability.

You serious, Clark?  Taken alone, I can see your point, but look at the pattern. A school with recruiting rankings that are historically half as good as Arkansas continues to pump out winning seasons. Wisconsin does pretty well in bowl games against other teams not from the Big 10 so you can't argue that they never play anyone--although I do agree their schedule in conference tends to be soft.

But the recruiting rankings do matter in terms of player development because there is usually (except for the few athletes that peak early) a higher ceiling with higher ranked recruits in terms of development. If that weren't the case, why would most schools strive for better recruiting classes?

So, in general, a coach of coaching equal talent with a recruiting class ranked 25-30 should have a better record than a an equally talented coach with a recruiting class ranked 45-50. And I do understand that Wisconsin doesn't play SEC teams with a higher recruiting ranking on a weekly basis like Arkansas however Beliema lost to Toledo, Rutgers, Texas Tech, and TCU and the Ragin Cajuns. What were their recruiting classes ranked?

So your assertion that comparing a coaches record against another coaches record, taking into account their respective class recruiting rankings, is invalid does not hold water and is, in fact, invalid.
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ShadowHawg

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2017, 11:39:38 pm »

Didn't Wi. open the season a year ago beating LSU and end it by beating Auburn? True they have played a weak schedule this year but they showed last season they could play with some SEC teams.

LSU played them in Milwaukee and later fired their coach during the season. Auburn didn't have their starting qb or leading rusher.

Pretty much proves nothing of the sort.
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Captain Morgan

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #35 on: November 14, 2017, 12:18:54 am »

You serious, Clark?  Taken alone, I can see your point, but look at the pattern. A school with recruiting rankings that are historically half as good as Arkansas continues to pump out winning seasons. Wisconsin does pretty well in bowl games against other teams not from the Big 10 so you can't argue that they never play anyone--although I do agree their schedule in conference tends to be soft.

But the recruiting rankings do matter in terms of player development because there is usually (except for the few athletes that peak early) a higher ceiling with higher ranked recruits in terms of development. If that weren't the case, why would most schools strive for better recruiting classes?

So, in general, a coach of coaching equal talent with a recruiting class ranked 25-30 should have a better record than a an equally talented coach with a recruiting class ranked 45-50. And I do understand that Wisconsin doesn't play SEC teams with a higher recruiting ranking on a weekly basis like Arkansas however Beliema lost to Toledo, Rutgers, Texas Tech, and TCU and the Ragin Cajuns. What were their recruiting classes ranked?

So your assertion that comparing a coaches record against another coaches record, taking into account their respective class recruiting rankings, is invalid does not hold water and is, in fact, invalid.

+1000000
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longpig

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #36 on: November 14, 2017, 04:55:06 am »

I understand the point you are making...but...  Rankings such as these mean little to nothing in terms of the actual player talent in relation to each team.  Recruiting rankings are skewed and not scientific in the least and should not be used as an argument to defend or oppose a viewpoint on coaching ability.

You have a link to the science showing there is no science in recruiting rankings?
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Porkchop#1

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #37 on: November 14, 2017, 05:10:19 am »

Just curious, I wonder what TCU recruit ranking and win loss record is for past 5 years ?
TCU's, just like Wisconsin's, won/loss totals, would be much worse if they played our schedule, year in and year out.
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LZH

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #38 on: November 14, 2017, 05:56:23 am »

That may be comparing apples to oranges, conferences and schedules and recruiting rankings and what not. But to me, the bottom line is, I would bet a dime to a dollar that Wisconsin would beat us by 4 TD's. That is all that really matters.
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majp51

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #39 on: November 14, 2017, 09:34:07 am »


Actually let's make this worse. Let's compare this to Mississippi Stae (MSU) so now we have apples to apples.

2012 MSU 22nd/Ark 27th
2013 MSU 24th/Ark 23rd
2014 MSU 36th/Ark 29th
2015 MSU 18th/Ark 22nd
2016 MSU 28th/Ark 23rd
2017 MSU 24th/Ark 27th

So basically identical rankings. Sometimes MSU finishes slightly higher sometimes slightly worse. Meanwhile in that same 5 year span MSU has had precisely 1 losing season (2016) and with almost no seniors this year, and a top 20 recruiting class next year, actually seems primed to actually challenge Bama next year.

What is the difference? Coaching!! The ability to identify QB's and develop then, and the willingness to quickly cut bait on Defensive coaching that doesn't work out.

BTW, MSU though is also the poster child for why perennial top 25 is not a good measuring stick. I mean would anyone here say that a 9-4 season, with a bowl win, is not a successful season? That is MSU's 2015 record, yet they never made the top 25.
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212hawg

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #40 on: November 14, 2017, 09:52:16 am »

Ok, now what were the other big10 teams ranked in recruiting? What were the other sec teams ranked in recruiting?

Yo...I love this guy. Hosanity indeed!
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hawginbigd1

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #41 on: November 14, 2017, 09:52:32 am »

And you base that on what, other than your desire for it to be so?
Just maybe the historical performance of the program over decades
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#1Fan

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #42 on: November 14, 2017, 10:05:06 am »

LSU played them in Milwaukee and later fired their coach during the season. Auburn didn't have their starting qb or leading rusher.

Pretty much proves nothing of the sort.
Actually, they played at Lambeau Field and since it was a neutral site game LSU had about 30,000 fans there, IIRC.
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hogsanity

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #43 on: November 14, 2017, 10:05:15 am »

Just maybe the historical performance of the program over decades

The 5 times they have ended the season ranked in the last 26 years ( counting this one )? That historical performance?
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majp51

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #44 on: November 14, 2017, 11:10:23 am »

Just maybe the historical performance of the program over decades

Except as MSU proves quite easily over the Dan Mullen Years, once you are no longer considered elite, or ever considered in MSU's case, merely having a good record is not sufficient to be ranked. MSU Has had 8 wins or more in 4 Seasons (soon to be 5) under Dan Mullen, only 2 years (maybe 3) where they finish in the top 25.

Unless you are meaning Ranked at some point in the season.
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hogginbama

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #45 on: November 14, 2017, 11:35:49 am »

We should be a perennial top 25 team with occasional (once a decade or so) top ten appearance. Anything else should be unacceptable.

Should be by the recruiting rankings, but then again, all of our conference games, aside from 1 or 2, are against teams that out recruit us. That in itself leads to more losses than is allowed to be in top 25. Just because Hogville says it is so, does not make it the gospel. Sometimes you gotta do your own logical thinking.
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hogsanity

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #46 on: November 14, 2017, 11:39:15 am »

Hogville  logical thinking.


Bwahhh, you actually put Hogville and logical thinking in the same post-----------oh man, thats gold.
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code red

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #47 on: November 14, 2017, 11:58:57 am »

We should be a perennial top 25 team with occasional (once a decade or so) top ten appearance. Anything else should be unacceptable.
How many times have we even placed 2nd or 3rd in the West???  You logic is flawed until we recruit in the top 15 we will never be ranked.
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hogsanity

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #48 on: November 14, 2017, 12:09:08 pm »

How many times have we even placed 2nd or 3rd in the West???  You logic is flawed until we recruit in the top 15 we will never be ranked.

There is no logic, there is just " I want to root for a top 25 teams so the Hogs should be top 25 " thats the depth of the thought on that.
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rude1

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Re: More disturbing facts
« Reply #49 on: November 14, 2017, 12:18:53 pm »

LSU played them in Milwaukee and later fired their coach during the season. Auburn didn't have their starting qb or leading rusher.

Pretty much proves nothing of the sort.
Let's bring Bert back for another season these losses mean nothing when we have had so many injuries!!!!!
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