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  • #1 by hogsanity on 13 Nov 2017
  • between the "top" teams and the Hogs is beyond me. Sat was only the 2nd Sat I have got to watch a ton of college football, and after doing so it I am amazed at the physical difference between the top teams and the Hogs. You can just look at them and see it, before the ball is eve snapped. Many teams have lb's that are faster than the Hogs rbs. They have rb's bigger than our lbs. They have wr's 5 inches taller and that are also faster than our db's, and they have db's bigger and faster than our wr's.

    Where are they getting these athletes, and why can't we at least get some like that? Those are the two questions a new coach has to answer pronto, because no one is going to scheme around that game after game after game.
  • #2 by Marshfieldhog on 13 Nov 2017
  • The new coach will need to be able to recruit and hire a staff that can recruit. I think Norvell and Gus fit those traits.
  • #3 by ipigsooie on 13 Nov 2017
  • between the "top" teams and the Hogs is beyond me. Sat was only the 2nd Sat I have got to watch a ton of college football, and after doing so it I am amazed at the physical difference between the top teams and the Hogs. You can just look at them and see it, before the ball is eve snapped. Many teams have lb's that are faster than the Hogs rbs. They have rb's bigger than our lbs. They have wr's 5 inches taller and that are also faster than our db's, and they have db's bigger and faster than our wr's.

    Where are they getting these athletes, and why can't we at least get some like that? Those are the two questions a new coach has to answer pronto, because no one is going to scheme around that game after game after game.

    Who cant see that some of our most talented players arent seeing the field? Hammonds got 3 carries after what he did the past 2 games. Gragg finally got a shot and look what he did. We do have some talent. It just isnt being utilized. But i agree, we dont have the same level talent as a lot of teams out there.
  • #4 by nwahogfan1 on 13 Nov 2017
  • I have been saying this all season.  Where are our difference makers?  We have very few and I agree some are not seeing the field.   

    Me and CBB do not agree on a lot of things.  One is not putting in a special player for one or two plays who he can take the ball to the house even though he might be your best blocker.    Who cares if he cannot block as good as a slow footed less talented guy.  Find a way to get the most out of your talent.    We do not have an identity right now we can play too. We do nothing well or for that matter we do very few things average.    We are a poorly coached and poorly motivated and it shows on the field.

    I think if a new coach comes in with the right ideas and pushes the right buttons we could be a 7 or 8 win team next year.  He will not have to completely start over.   I think their is enough talent for that but to be a 10 win team we need better players especially more game changers.
  • #5 by hogsanity on 13 Nov 2017
  • I have been watching a lot of football all season and what I have seen is not so much a size difference, itís a physicality and reaction time difference.  I donít agree with the OP when he says teams have faster LBs than our RBs.  Thatís just silly talk.  Or that other teams have WRs 5-6 inches taller than ours.  More silly talk!  I guess the OP forgot we have a freshman 4* DB, our backfield is full of 4* RBs, all of our TEs are 4*s and our OLine is littered with 4*s.  Being that there are only about 30 5* FB players per class, Iíd say itís not the talent, itís coaching and how itís being used.

    I said they have wr's 5 inches taller than our dbs, not that they have wr's 5 inches taller than our wr's.

    As for the Lb comment, twice this year we have had a rb caught from behind by a lb. Chase Hayden, supposedly the fastest of the 3 that were playing Rb early on, got caught on a dead run. No angle.

  • #6 by hogsanity on 13 Nov 2017
  • I have every game on DVR.  What game did a LB catch Hayden in a dead sprint?  As far as WR and DB height, I guess you donít watch much FB.  Most teams have WRs taller than DBs.  Itís that way in the NFL and across CFB.  The 6-3, 6-4 WR has been a trend in CFB for quit some time and thatís why there are so many of them in the NFL.  By the way, we had a 6-3 WR with 4.3 speed last season but BB chose not to play him.

    Believe it was the Aub game most recently.

    And I know Wr's are often taller than the db's, but it seems exaggerated with our db's.
  • #7 by porque on 13 Nov 2017
  • I really think it is more of a coaching talent gap.  He has recruited as well or better than his predecessors.  On defense, we seem to be out of position a lot.  I love Greenlaw's athleticism but he just runs where he wants to.  We have recruited well on the dline, but they are terrible. 
  • #8 by hawginbigd1 on 13 Nov 2017
  • The only place we are lacking in talent imo is at safety and probably LB. Safety is bad, at least the 4 we have put on the field the last 3 seasons.
  • #9 by ballz2thewall on 13 Nov 2017
  • to my eyes the gap is lack of swagger, effort and execution.
  • #10 by hawgon on 13 Nov 2017
  • On defense, our players are not allowed to play fast.  On offense, our best playmakers donít see the field.

    Iím starting to think that Bielema actually doesnít like chunk plays and would rather see us grind it out than take a long one to the house.  Itís a crazy thought I know.  But everyone who seems like a difference maker doesnít see the field.
  • #11 by porque on 13 Nov 2017
  • The only place we are lacking in talent imo is at safety and probably LB. Safety is bad, at least the 4 we have put on the field the last 3 seasons.

    I like our linebackers. Scoota is the real deal.  Greenlaw would be great, if he knew where he was going.  Edwards is a hell of a athlete.  And Ramsey has the tools but doesn't seem to play with a fire.  I think they need to be coached up.
  • #12 by hawginbigd1 on 13 Nov 2017
  • I see a lot of bad coaching, just one example is the talented young WRs have not been taught to drive back to the football when your sorry azz QB underthrows you by 10 yards,come back to the football through the db and make a play or draw a flag.
  • #13 by hogsanity on 13 Nov 2017
  • I really think it is more of a coaching talent gap.  He has recruited as well or better than his predecessors.  On defense, we seem to be out of position a lot.  I love Greenlaw's athleticism but he just runs where he wants to.  We have recruited well on the dline, but they are terrible. 

    Recruiting rankings are not an exact science. While I think there have been coaching issues, the defense is just slow, so they try to anticipate, and often get out of position because of it.

    On the eye test, if you lined up the Hogs and LSU, Aub, Bama, A&M, and probabaly even MSU and just looked at them in uniform before the game, you would not pick the Hogs to win any of those games. Those teams are bigger, faster, stronger.

    And fans often compare things the wrong way. They say things like " Our Ol is better than their OL " or " our wrs' are better than their wrs' ". Problem is those groups do not play against each other. What matters is  how does our db group match up with the opponent wr's, how does my ol match up against their dl?.
  • #14 by hawginbigd1 on 13 Nov 2017
  • I like our linebackers. Scoota is the real deal.  Greenlaw would be great, if he knew where he was going.  Edwards is a hell of a athlete.  And Ramsey has the tools but doesn't seem to play with a fire.  I think they need to be coached up.
    Scoota no doubt is a starter for anybody save maybe Bama. Greenlaw is apparently averse to learning while he is injured or.....Ramsey has played a lot better of late but has been disappointing most of the year, the 4th LB has been hopless all season.
  • #15 by Jackrabbit Hog on 13 Nov 2017
  • Scoota no doubt is a starter for anybody save maybe Bama. Greenlaw is apparently averse to learning while he is injured or.....Ramsey has played a lot better of late but has been disappointing most of the year, the 4th LB has been hopless all season.

    When fans around you are saying, "Gosh, I miss Brooks Ellis", you know you are weak at LB.
  • #16 by FATHAWG08 on 13 Nov 2017
  • Been like this for awhile.
  • #17 by DeltaBoy on 13 Nov 2017
  • We been short since Bobby Left.
  • #18 by Jim Harris on 13 Nov 2017
  • I said they have wr's 5 inches taller than our dbs, not that they have wr's 5 inches taller than our wr's.

    As for the Lb comment, twice this year we have had a rb caught from behind by a lb. Chase Hayden, supposedly the fastest of the 3 that were playing Rb early on, got caught on a dead run. No angle.



    You are right on what you say. And to say it's "silly talk" that the LBs are as fast as our RBs is a clueless comment considering Arkansas recruited one of LSU's starting LB's as their No. 1 RUNNING BACK target two years ago. Thte top half of this league has LBs as fast or faster than Arkansas's top two running backs. That's a fact.
    However, this point: It doesn't matter how much difference in height between WR and DBs are when the LSU wide receiver is 10 yards beyond the cornerbacks covering him.
    *(I was impressed that the freshman was able to close that game and reach his ankles by the goal line, though; meanwhile, the other CB gave up on the first touchdown)
  • #19 by Dropkick on 13 Nov 2017
  • Its a coaching problem any way you look at it. If we don't have the players necessary that means the coach's are failing to recruit and develop adequately.
  • #20 by HF#1 on 13 Nov 2017
  • I've seen a huge talent gap for 5 years.
  • #21 by FATHAWG08 on 13 Nov 2017
  • You are right on what you say. And to say it's "silly talk" that the LBs are as fast as our RBs is a clueless comment considering Arkansas recruited one of LSU's starting LB's as their No. 1 RUNNING BACK target two years ago. Thte top half of this league has LBs as fast or faster than Arkansas's top two running backs. That's a fact.
    However, this point: It doesn't matter how much difference in height between WR and DBs are when the LSU wide receiver is 10 yards beyond the cornerbacks covering him.
    *(I was impressed that the freshman was able to close that game and reach his ankles by the goal line, though; meanwhile, the other CB gave up on the first touchdown)
    Was it #40 Devin White from Springhill LA.? He was making plays the whole game from his LB spot.
  • #22 by Jim Harris on 13 Nov 2017
  • Scoota no doubt is a starter for anybody save maybe Bama. Greenlaw is apparently averse to learning while he is injured or.....Ramsey has played a lot better of late but has been disappointing most of the year, the 4th LB has been hopless all season.

    He's a good player, and he's Arkansas's best LB by leaps and bounds but not sure he'd start at this point for any team but Bama (actually, with their injuries, he might start now for Bama). When LSU didn't have any LBs coming up, which was the case (and why they had to move Devin White immediately from RB to LB), why did they not offer Scoota at LB?
  • #23 by Jim Harris on 13 Nov 2017
  • Was it #40 Devin White from Springhill LA.? He was making plays the whole game from his LB spot.

    That's him.

    Bielema would have him in a four-man rotation at RB right now. Heck, he might be hell on wheels at RB but he'd have to make some great runs to get past the LOS most of the time.
  • #24 by HF#1 on 13 Nov 2017
  • He's a good player, and he's Arkansas's best LB by leaps and bounds but not sure he'd start at this point for any team but Bama (actually, with their injuries, he might start now for Bama). When LSU didn't have any LBs coming up, which was the case (and why they had to move Devin White immediately from RB to LB), why did they not offer Scoota at LB?

    We don't have a LB that would make Bama's 2 or 3 deep depth chart.
  • #25 by hawgon on 13 Nov 2017
  • That's him.

    Bielema would have him in a four-man rotation at RB right now. Heck, he might be hell on wheels at RB but he'd have to make some great runs to get past the LOS most of the time.

    Well, heíd be in the rotation assuming he showed up at 3:35 am for the 5:00 am meetings in August.
  • #26 by oldhog63 on 13 Nov 2017
  • Its a coaching problem any way you look at it. If we don't have the players necessary that means the coach's are failing to recruit and develop adequately.
    This in a nutshell. Why anyone is still defending and making excuses for CBB is beyond me.
  • #27 by code red on 13 Nov 2017
  • The new coach will need to be able to recruit and hire a staff that can recruit. I think Norvell and Gus fit those traits.
    Agreed.  CBB has several swings and misses.  That has killed our depth.
  • #28 by hogsanity on 13 Nov 2017
  • This in a nutshell. Why anyone is still defending and making excuses for CBB is beyond me.

    Who is making excuses? I thought by pointing out a lack of talent it was kind of understood that was on recruiting which is on the coach and his staff.
  • #29 by Hogwild on 13 Nov 2017
  • After watching the past weekend's game you would have to be in complete denial, notrr to see the huge talent gap. There is not a position grouping LSU would trade us with the exception of kicker.   
  • #30 by sir-pigs-a-lot on 13 Nov 2017
  • Exactly. We don't have the horses , the coaches, really much of anything. It's a dumpster fire. It's time to bring in someone who can either recruit the best players or win with a system that can equalize talent.
  • #31 by code red on 13 Nov 2017
  • We don't have a LB that would make Bama's 2 or 3 deep depth chart.
    Hallelujah....someone else sees this too!!!!
  • #32 by hogsanity on 13 Nov 2017
  • After watching the past weekend's game you would have to be in complete denial, notrr to see the huge talent gap. There is not a position grouping LSU would trade us with the exception of kicker.   

    Exactly. We don't have the horses , the coaches, really much of anything. It's a dumpster fire. It's time to bring in someone who can either recruit the best players or win with a system that can equalize talent.

    There are many posters here that will tell you this team has the talent to win 9 or 10 games, and next year a new coach can walk in here and cruise to 8 wins.
  • #33 by Arthur pigby sellers. on 13 Nov 2017
  • We have always and will always have a talent gap against against LSU.  Thatís a team you have to beat by out scheming them. Bama and Auburn (Gus has them recruiting at their highest level ever) will almost always be talent mismatchs against us as well. No coach will ever recruit at a high enough level to make us equal with them. Now a really good coach aka Patterson at TCU developes and coaches his talent where it is equal to these other teams ( except Bama because they are Bama ). 
  • #34 by Arthur pigby sellers. on 13 Nov 2017
  • I also agree a major problem with this team is physicality and drive. At the first sign of trouble
    They quit.
  • #35 by hogginbama on 13 Nov 2017
  • The wide talent gap is not in the starters, it is in the reserves. For the 1st half we are capable of hanging in there. When it is time to spell the starters for a play or two, the drop off begins. That is typically when the defense gives up the big chunk plays. The Bama's, LSU's, Clemson's, etc., replace their 5-star starters with a 4 or 5 star sub, we replace ours with 2-3 star subs. That looks to be where the recruiting has been focused, trying to balance it out and build an entire team, not one side of the ball at a time. Problem is, today's demand for instant gratification doesn't allow for a total, even build. Maybe he should have built defense first, then offense or the other way around. Issue with that is every cycle will lead to a good offense, crappy defense. darned if you do, darned if you don't.

  • #36 by go hogues on 13 Nov 2017
  • It's admirable that our fans want to be optiminists and believe our yearly haul of 2* and low 3* recruits were all diamonds in the rough but the reality is, that when you bring up the rear in recruiting rankings, you'll likely bring up the rear in league standings.

  • #37 by hogginbama on 13 Nov 2017
  • There are many posters here that will tell you this team has the talent to win 9 or 10 games, and next year a new coach can walk in here and cruise to 8 wins.

    I will say the new coach will have a good base to build off of. He won't have to worry about the players doing the right thing or losing academic eligibility. Sure there will be one or two knuckleheads that make a stupid decision, but not to the point we are reading something about it every week.

    I honestly feel that BB was brought here to build a base, get players that we could be proud of in more than just football and stabilize the program from the turmoil of the BP fiasco. Once the base was built, turn it over to someone else to take to the next step. I am sure many will disagree and say he only came here to support Long's hidden desire to destroy anything related to football. Those same "fans" will call for the head of the new guy in year 3 if he isn't winning big.
  • #38 by Tejano Jawg on 13 Nov 2017
  • Bielema is responsible for everything that goes on within our program. Pointing out our talent problems isn't giving him a pass at all. He recruits the players, then he develops themÖthe only question I have is WHERE the bigger problem lies. I still think the latter.

    With Austin hurt this year, we have no playmakers on offense. Your team has to be solid, then you need some serious talent at the skill positions. Imagine our past teams without Darren McFadden, Felix Jones, Knile Davis, Ryan Mallett, Tyler Wilson, Joe Adams, Drew Morgan, Rawleigh WilliamsÖwell, you don't have to imagine it. Just look at this season.
  • #39 by hogsanity on 13 Nov 2017
  • Bielema is responsible for everything that goes on within our program. Pointing out our talent problems isn't giving him a pass at all. He recruits the players, then he develops themÖthe only question I have is WHERE the bigger problem lies. I still think the latter.

    With Austin hurt this year, we have no playmakers on offense. Your team has to be solid, then you need some serious talent at the skill positions. Imagine our past teams without Darren McFadden, Felix Jones, Knile Davis, Ryan Mallett, Tyler Wilson, Joe Adams, Drew Morgan, Rawleigh WilliamsÖwell, you don't have to imagine it. Just look at this season.

    This team reminds me so much of 2013. No difference makers on either side of the ball.
  • #40 by Poker_hog on 13 Nov 2017
  • Talent wise this was a middle of the pack sec team.  About like USCe, MSU or A&M.  Coaching wise we're on the same level as tenner and Florida.
  • #41 by majp51 on 13 Nov 2017
  • between the "top" teams and the Hogs is beyond me. Sat was only the 2nd Sat I have got to watch a ton of college football, and after doing so it I am amazed at the physical difference between the top teams and the Hogs. You can just look at them and see it, before the ball is eve snapped. Many teams have lb's that are faster than the Hogs rbs. They have rb's bigger than our lbs. They have wr's 5 inches taller and that are also faster than our db's, and they have db's bigger and faster than our wr's.

    Where are they getting these athletes, and why can't we at least get some like that? Those are the two questions a new coach has to answer pronto, because no one is going to scheme around that game after game after game.

    Hogsanity, I'm not sure I see that huge of a talent gap as much as a coaching gap. Now there might also be a significant talent gap too, but it hasn't always been there. Yes Nutt often "did more with less" but it was recruiting rankings, not when you looked out on the field, that you heard about the Gap.

    Is there a gap in talent between Arkansas and the Auburn/BAMA/Georgia programs? Absolutely, and barring some sort of stupid NCAA rules being made, there always will be. Those Schools are big Schools in very fertile recruiting grounds. If we keep winning Arkansas could theoretically match their National Recruiting scope, but I really doubt they will ever come close to having the local "named" talent worth recruiting that comes close to the state of Alabama.

    That means you have to correctly evaluate the 2star and 3 star talent. A trick that HDN actually was pretty decent at, and that CBB cannot manage to save his life.

     
  • #42 by Mo_Better_Hogs on 13 Nov 2017
  • While I'm not confident in our coaching staff's ability to develop players, I'd have to think that if we had someone elite, on either side of the ball, they would have come through by now. That is, unless the player is a freshman. I just think a big-time player couldn't be held back, even by this staff. That being said, I believe we do have some good players. The problem is--they're not surrounded by other good players. Every game I pretty much watch us get manhandled.

    On a positive note, maybe there's more here than it appears--for the next coaching staff. Holtz' first team won 5 games the year before. Nutt's first team only won 4 the year before.
  • #43 by hogsanity on 13 Nov 2017
  • While I'm not confident in our coaching staff's ability to develop players, I'd have to think that if we had someone elite, on either side of the ball, they would have come through by now. That is, unless the player is a freshman. I just think a big-time player couldn't be held back, even by this staff. That being said, I believe we do have some good players. The problem is--they're not surrounded by other good players. Every game I pretty much watch us get manhandled.

    On a positive note, maybe there's more here than it appears--for the next coaching staff. Holtz' first team won 5 games the year before. Nutt's first team only won 4 the year before.

    One problem is we never seem to have all the pieces at once. SR qb, young wrs and ol. veteran ol, new qb and new backs. Solid Dl, nothing at Lb or Db, good db's and the dl is weak or young or both. That is what happens when you never have quality depth.
  • #44 by kiddhog on 13 Nov 2017
  • How's our talent gap with coastal carolina ? not many in country compare talent wise with GA, Bama, LSU and Auburn . But we have plenty of players that were recruited by those teams. I realize our depth is not close to those teams. But how do we compare to TCU , Kentucky , Missouri or Iowa State ??? the bottom line we have talent to be competitive with a lot of teams.... but the coaching talent gap is massive... this team has under performed compared to their talent... and I blame most of that on coaching
  • #45 by 007 License To Squeal on 13 Nov 2017
  • How's our talent gap with coastal carolina ?


    BOOM!!!

    As the old guy on Cool Hand Luke said...."What we have here.......is failure to develop the players".............OK, he didn't say that exactly.
  • #46 by Swestwill66 on 13 Nov 2017
  • It may just be an inferiority complex but it looks like most everybody else in the SEC has safeties as big and thick as our linebackers. And linebackers that can run as fast as our rb's.
  • #47 by ShadowTheHedgehog on 13 Nov 2017
  • I don't think anyone will deny there is a gap between LSU, BAMA, Auburn and the HOGS. But there should not be a gap between the hogs and CC, TCU, USCe, etc. and the product on the field was horrible. That is why the argument that CBB is great and its just that "we don't have the horses" does not hold water.
  • #48 by GoHogs1091 on 13 Nov 2017
  • There is a huge talent gap between the following 5 teams and the rest of college football.

    Alabama
    Clemson
    Miami (FL)
    Oklahoma  (that will change next season with Mayfield gone; he makes that team click)
    Auburn

    So, really not a surprise that the rest of college football is not towards the top of the polls.
  • #49 by GoHogzzGo on 13 Nov 2017
  • Coaching coaching coaching. We may never see anothe Bama again, Nick Saban is insane. Get the coach everything else will follow.

    We have plenty of talent to beat almost anyone if coaches properly.
  • #50 by ChicoHog on 13 Nov 2017
  • There is a huge talent gap between the following 5 teams and the rest of college football.

    Alabama
    Clemson
    Miami (FL)
    Oklahoma  (that will change next season with Mayfield gone; he makes that team click)
    Auburn

    So, really not a surprise that the rest of college football is not towards the top of the polls.

    You forgot Ohio St.  They have more NFL players than Oklahoma.  Usually Bama, Clemson, Ohio st, FSU, UF, UGA, Auburn, LSU and USC have the most NFL talent.  I don't expect Hogs to be at that level.  We should be close to the SCarolina, A&M, Tenner and more than the mississippi schools level. 

    It is all about recruiting however.  Saban, Meyer and Swinney and now I would add Franklin and Harbaugh to the list are the best recruiters in college football.  We need a dynamic recruiter more than anything else.  Hire the good scheme OC and DC guy but we need a HC who can close the deal and recruit at a higher level than we have ever before. 
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