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Football in Arkansas

Started by aar0n, January 05, 2008, 04:53:22 pm

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Sao Ming

Quote from: hogdiggity on January 05, 2008, 07:50:10 pm
If you will check....way back I said I was a Razorback fan first.  I have a big enough love for football to be able to support more than 1 school in our great state however.  UCA will start playing larger schools, they would play UA today if UA would be brave enough to play instate schools.  But that is a whole 'nother topic.

I understand your allegiance, I do.  But being a Hog fan first, why in the world would you want us to play UCA?  What is that getting us?

hogdiggity

Quote from: Sao Ming on January 05, 2008, 07:54:39 pm
I understand your allegiance, I do.  But being a Hog fan first, why in the world would you want us to play UCA?  What is that getting us?

I would rather see us play UCA/ASU than Tenn Chat or someother nobody from out of state.  At least all money from the event would stay in AR.  It would be much easier to sell out the stadium, even if it was in Fayetteville.  And if you think that we would loose recruits, I just say this,,,refer back to all the posts that said tradition was what UA had that these other schools will have.  Every recruit in this state that has an offer from both UA and UCA will go to UA first.  I see other schools like LSU playing in state small schools, it does not hurt them.

 

Sao Ming

Quote from: hogdiggity on January 05, 2008, 07:59:32 pm
I would rather see us play UCA/ASU than Tenn Chat or someother nobody from out of state.  At least all money from the event would stay in AR.  It would be much easier to sell out the stadium, even if it was in Fayetteville.  And if you think that we would loose recruits, I just say this,,,refer back to all the posts that said tradition was what UA had that these other schools will have.  Every recruit in this state that has an offer from both UA and UCA will go to UA first.  I see other schools like LSU playing in state small schools, it does not hurt them.

I understand the money premise but it must be noted we don't travel out of state when playing the cupcakes (for the large majority i.e. ULaMon/UTC etc).  Those teams are paid a stipend for palying us but it's not a budget maker by any means (400K or so).  So should the U of A be the big brother to all smaller in-state schools?  Can't UCA's AD get Missouri or Mississippi to play a game?  if not, I would ask why not.

hogdiggity

Quote from: Sao Ming on January 05, 2008, 08:05:48 pm
I understand the money premise but it must be noted we don't travel out of state when playing the cupcakes (for the large majority i.e. ULaMon/UTC etc).  Those teams are paid a stipend for palying us but it's not a budget maker by any means (400K or so).  So should the U of A be the big brother to all smaller in-state schools?  Can't UCA's AD get Missouri or Mississippi to play a game?  if not, I would ask why not.

I suspect very shortly you will see some big names on UCA's sched. 

Thanks for the debate, time for me to sign off for now.  If you ever want to check out a UCA game let me know, maybe I'll treat you.  UCA has a great coach and plays an exciting brand of football.  Otherwise look for me at fayetteville, I'll be the one in red

Sao Ming

Quote from: hogdiggity on January 05, 2008, 08:08:04 pm
I suspect very shortly you will see some big names on UCA's sched. 

Thanks for the debate, time for me to sign off for now.  If you ever want to check out a UCA game let me know, maybe I'll treat you.  UCA has a great coach and plays an exciting brand of football.  Otherwise look for me at fayetteville, I'll be the one in red

Bigger than Stephen F Austin or Sam Houston State I hope.  BTW, I don't think those schools whine about not playing Texas or Texas AM.  If I am in Conway let's just have dinner and some laughs.

Adram

i just find it sad and pathetic the UA will not play any states schools.  if a team is scared to play there little brothers in a game, that type of mentality doesn't really help when you are trying to win championships.  i guess let's just stick with the "missouri state"s of the world just so we can get to "bowl eligible".

75_zebra

UCA has the top AD in the state IMO.  Enjoy your elitist opinions while you can.

sonsahog

I'm one of the people who want UCA to compete with UA and ASU. UCA has a large fan base that supports the Bears above any other team. Taking nothing away from the other in-state schools, but UCA has a great tradition and tremendous fans. Great things are happening in Central Arkansas with much more to come!

Go Bears!

Hugulus Hog

Tradition = Habit

Habit is a foolish reason to argue hog dominance.  Whatever the hogs supposedly did back in the 60's won't amount to much if they plow ahead in their mediocre glory if UCA becomes a player on the national stage ala USF.

SpiritHog

Most of the reason that USF is so strong is that they were able to take the rejects of the Florida pool.  Even those are a lot better than most states have.  I don't see UCA having that advantage.
Non Illegitimus Carborundum

sonsahog

1. UCA has a great tradition.

2. Don't assume the money for growth won't be available.

Granted it's a long term deal, but look how far the Bears have come thus far.

There would be nothing wrong with two or three state powers battling on the gridiron and it would be great for the fans and the state's image.


Go Bears!

junkyardhog

You might want to read a little about them, UCA has several national championships on a smaller level.

It's obvious that a lot of this talk is coming from UCA alum. Could you post a list of the several NC's  UCA has won. Isn't there rival UAM?Could they regularly beat App. State?

Also has a team/school like UCA overcome a state tradition in football before?

You might say USF, though they have to show they are in it for the long haul . Plus it helps being located in a state that provides so many D1 recruits.

UCA's numbers are climbing over UofA becausethe UofA keeps raising admission standards. UofA took a while but is a tier 1 university. What is UCA?
Mike Williams
'UA 03

Have had the handle junkyardhog since 2002(WP)

DickSonstreetDFW

Quote from: hogdiggity on January 05, 2008, 05:24:40 pm

UCA will have a larger enrollement than Arkansas in 5 years.

Won't happen in 5 years.

UCA would have to grow by 50% and UA would have to either lose or not grow at all.

UA is growing too and will probably top 19,000 students this Fall.

 

Hudge

Though UCA is growing, and is a good college, I see them staying in the old 1-AA. I lived in Montana, and they made their stadium to the max limits to stay 1-AA. They sale out just about every game, but if they add any more seats, they jump to the old Div 1-A. They don't want to do this, as they have gotten Boise State out of the Big Sky Conf., and now The Griz dominate it. Granted we are talking two different colleges, but I can see UCA being a dominate program in the old 1-AA in 5 years or so. I think they may be comaprable to Appalachian State, and knock off a few top 1-A programs but never move up. If they do make the jump, it will be in about 15 years, and they will be more like a UCF or LA Monroe.

tophawg19

keep in mind it wasn't so long ago that miami fla . wasn't considered to be more than an irritation for  UF and FSU . the same is true for southern miss. UCA could really find a loyal fan base in south ark . and northern louisanna . it will take time but more and more i think a lot of instate kids will go to uca , especially if we go national in recruiting . i think this alone will build up the fan base in little rock and all points south. growth takes time but the arrogant attitude in fayetteville could speed up the process . uca has the money and backing in place to grow
if you ain't a hawg you ain't chitlins

jgphillips3

It is extremely unlikely that either one of those teams will surpass the Razorbacks in State support even over a 100 year time period IF the Razorbacks stay in the SEC (or whatever the big time conference will be when we are all dead) and continue to win a reasonable percentage (say 60%) over the 100 year time period. 

However, what is more likely is that UCA could become the, to use a basketball analogy, NC State to North Carolina.  There is absolutely no doubt that North Carolina is the dominant of those two in terms of tradition, wins, talent, NC's, et al, but NC State has its moments.

UCA is centrally located and is extremely agressive in academic and sports programs.  As the Razorbacks continue to abandon Central Arkansas and play maybe one football and one basketball game a year in Little Rock, the Central Arkansas fans will look for another team to watch when they aren't watching the Razorbacks.  Also, there is a lot of money in Central Arkansas.  Finally, enrollment at UCA has rapidly expanded and if enrollment stayed high for the next 100 years they would have a tremendous alumni base.  I can't imagine them overtaking the Razorbacks in fans, but they could play a real interesting step-brother to them.

No slight to ASU, but as the Country moves further from an Agrarian economy, it will be very hard for them to grow unless they really can turn that section of the State into a manufacturing region and get much more economic development than seems likely at this time.  They will probably have some good years in the future and may be a competitive program, but I see UCA leapfrogging them as the second team in the State due to population base and economics.

Incidentally, I am a die-hard Razorback fan, but I do follow both of the other teams and hope they both prosper although I am closer to UCA and have a few relatives in attendance there, so I follow them a little more.

Hugulus Hog

Quote from: tophawg19 on January 06, 2008, 12:10:07 pm
growth takes time but the arrogant attitude in fayetteville could speed up the process .

That's the bottom line.  UCA is building bridges to the entire state while F-ville is burning historic bridges. 

junkyardhog

how many recruits come out of the Miami/Dade county area? You are going to compare Miami  to Conway, wow! I wonder if it the dolphins and the beach helped Miami get on track. Has Conway even overturned their ban on MTV?
Mike Williams
'UA 03

Have had the handle junkyardhog since 2002(WP)

Pig_Lebowski

Where can I get one of those window stickers that say, THE UNIVERSITY.   Nothing screams "elitism" or "arrogance" louder.

Hurt Hog

UCA will never be a member of the Big 12 unless is becomes like the WAC.

cream$$$

I love the Bears and the Hawgs.  Thought I'd throw in that it's my understanding that UCA's stud QB was dismissed by Nutt.  Who knows what the Bears initiation in the Southland (football) Conference is if he's at UA.  I'm happy to have a new Coach on the hill.

DickSonstreetDFW

"Higher" education is going to be elitist by its very nature.

At the same time UA has been reaching out of state for students and improving its academic and research community, its enrollment has increased to record highs.

The University of Arkansas is a research institution.  UCA is not.  The University of Arkansas has an endowment of nearly $1 billion. 

Thats not to say that you can't get a good education at UCA.  A highly motivated kid at UCA is going to do better than a kid who goes to UA to party. 

I'm confident that same highly motivated person would get a BETTER education at UA in most fields.  Furthermore, that education is going to be percieved as better by employers in most areas of the country.

Football games at UCA are never going to be as well attended as UA football games.

Maybe if LR and Central Arkansas double in population in the next 20 years, they'll come close.

One of the reasons is because UCA will never pick up the number of "t-shirt" fans that UA does.  Fans who didn't, or didn't have an immediate family member, graduate from UA.

In the end, I think it all boils down to this:  If UCA really wants to become a bigger, better school, they need to try once again to get Faulkner county wet. 

Beer will help to solve all of the above issues. 

Sao Ming

Quote from: cream$$$ on January 06, 2008, 12:30:32 pm
I love the Bears and the Hawgs.  Thought I'd throw in that it's my understanding that UCA's stud QB was dismissed by Nutt.  Who knows what the Bears initiation in the Southland (football) Conference is if he's at UA.  I'm happy to have a new Coach on the hill.

Who are you talking about?  UCA only has 2 QB's on roster and 1 is a transfer from SFA.  Expand on that for us.

sonsahog

Growth is good for both schools!

Nothing wrong with beer either!

Go Bears!

 

CORZRBACKFAN

I understand that UCA has won national titles and has done well in its move up in football, but let's get serious-no team will ever challenge the Arkansas Razorbacks for statewide fan support. You're talking 114 years of history there, and SEC football. Not to knock on UCA, but sports are not major league there. They are the Travelers of college sports. Other than the one year Nelson Catalina took his team to the tournament, I barely knew ASU existed when I lived in Arkansas. I knew about UALR and cheered for them during their longshot games in the tourney, but I still wasn't a "fan." It's perfectly fine to be a Razorback fan and be a UCA/ASU/UALR etc. fan as well. With no chance of ever having major league sports teams, the Razorbacks are and will continue to be the only major league college team of the state. That's not elitist, it's reality. The SEC is the best conference in America. Why would people in Arkansas want to lose that statewide unity? With the exception of Nebraska, no state can even come close to competing with the statewide support that the University of Arkansas gets. And trust me, Nebraska truly has nothing else other than Fusker football. Arkansas is a beautiful state with much more going for it than just the Razorbacks. Go Hogs!!!
-"One has to learn havin' fun is just smilin' through
those changes in latitudes, changes in attitudes. "

-Jimmy Buffett

aar0n

Quote from: DickSonstreetDFW on January 06, 2008, 12:04:12 pm
Won't happen in 5 years.

UCA would have to grow by 50% and UA would have to either lose or not grow at all.

UA is growing too and will probably top 19,000 students this Fall.
UCA is currently nearing 13,000, maybe 14.  A 50% increase would put them at 26-28,000.

SLC

Quote from: hogdiggity on January 05, 2008, 08:08:04 pm
I suspect very shortly you will see some big names on UCA's sched. 

Thanks for the debate, time for me to sign off for now.  If you ever want to check out a UCA game let me know, maybe I'll treat you.  UCA has a great coach and plays an exciting brand of football.  Otherwise look for me at fayetteville, I'll be the one in red

I would gladly go to a UCA game (provided no conflicts w/ Razorback Schedule).  Especially love to go if the lady in the avatar is in attendance.   ;D
I need your truthful reply - lie, I will know it... and death will be no respite.

aar0n

Quote from: Sao Ming on January 06, 2008, 12:44:13 pm
Who are you talking about?  UCA only has 2 QB's on roster and 1 is a transfer from SFA.  Expand on that for us.
He could either be referring to Nathan Brown, who was overlooked by Nutt and turned out to be a better QB than Dick or Zack Clark a few years ago, who transferred from UofA to UCA and dominated. 

Sao Ming

Quote from: alnaar0n on January 06, 2008, 12:54:56 pm
He could either be referring to Nathan Brown, who was overlooked by Nutt and turned out to be a better QB than Dick or Zack Clark a few years ago, who transferred from UofA to UCA and dominated. 

So Brown was NAIA material but not SEC.  Makes sense why he dominated.  Good example.

SLC

Quote from: hogdiggity on January 05, 2008, 07:59:32 pm
I would rather see us play UCA/ASU than Tenn Chat or someother nobody from out of state.  At least all money from the event would stay in AR.  It would be much easier to sell out the stadium, even if it was in Fayetteville.  And if you think that we would loose recruits, I just say this,,,refer back to all the posts that said tradition was what UA had that these other schools will have.  Every recruit in this state that has an offer from both UA and UCA will go to UA first.  I see other schools like LSU playing in state small schools, it does not hurt them.

The challenge is recruiting.  First, Arkansas does not have the amount of in-state talent LA does.  I do not think AR is worried about losing in-state recruits to UCA, ASU, etc....  I think the point is to get the Razorbacks more exposure in other states.  Playing ULM puts Arkansas in the Monroe papers.  Playing those other schools still puts the Razorbacks in their local and state papers.  That is invaluable when Arkansas needs to recruit other states besides AR to field a team that will be not only competitive but successful in the SEC.

JMHO. 
I need your truthful reply - lie, I will know it... and death will be no respite.

aar0n

Quote from: Sao Ming on January 06, 2008, 12:57:45 pm
So Brown was NAIA material but not SEC.  Makes sense why he dominated.  Good example.
I don't know if you ever saw him play, but he was clearly better than Casey Dick. It was painfully obvious.  Have you ever heard the saying "talent is talent regardless of the stage?" 

SLC

Quote from: DickSonstreetDFW on January 06, 2008, 12:38:24 pm
"Higher" education is going to be elitist by its very nature.

At the same time UA has been reaching out of state for students and improving its academic and research community, its enrollment has increased to record highs.

The University of Arkansas is a research institution.  UCA is not.  The University of Arkansas has an endowment of nearly $1 billion. 

Thats not to say that you can't get a good education at UCA.  A highly motivated kid at UCA is going to do better than a kid who goes to UA to party. 

I'm confident that same highly motivated person would get a BETTER education at UA in most fields.  Furthermore, that education is going to be percieved as better by employers in most areas of the country.

Football games at UCA are never going to be as well attended as UA football games.

Maybe if LR and Central Arkansas double in population in the next 20 years, they'll come close.

One of the reasons is because UCA will never pick up the number of "t-shirt" fans that UA does.  Fans who didn't, or didn't have an immediate family member, graduate from UA.

In the end, I think it all boils down to this:  If UCA really wants to become a bigger, better school, they need to try once again to get Faulkner county wet. 

Beer will help to solve all of the above issues. 

Love the way you ended your point.
I need your truthful reply - lie, I will know it... and death will be no respite.

SLC

January 06, 2008, 01:04:30 pm #82 Last Edit: January 06, 2008, 01:06:21 pm by SLC
I cheer for other AR schools, even though I never attended any but the UofA.  Whether it is UCA, UAPB or the Reddies (my wife is actually a Reddie and after learning what a Reddie is, they might be cultists...) anyway, I usually want those teams to win. 
The only exception being ASU, I have run into too many ASU fans who obnoxiously hate the UofA. 

I think everyone else from the UofA supports those schools too, please correct me if I am wrong.
I need your truthful reply - lie, I will know it... and death will be no respite.

MTBrookHog

Here are my .02 and it might get long. I live in NEA and anyone that knows me knows where my loyalty lies. We need to look back in history and see that whoever on the Hill had to foresight to play games at Little Rock was a genius. I am not about to get into the GSD. Playing games in Little Rock made the Razorbacks a statewide team. If the Razorbacks would have stayed in NWA playing the games in Fayetteville, most likely we would have been a regional team at best. Now to get back on topic. ASU had a chance back in the early 80's to become somewhat of a power. Under Larry Lacewell the Indians were becoming a power in Div. 1-AA. But the President of the university got greedy. ASU's problem is some of the power brokers cannot stand being second fiddle to UA. When the decision was made for ASU to go D-1, Larry Lacewell fought it tooth and nail. He tried to tell them that ASU was not ready yet but they were getting there. Now ASU cannot compete on a consistent level in D-1 even though Steve Roberts is doing a helluva job here in Jonesboro. Now as for UCA, I believe they are going about it the right way. Right now, they could care less about the Razorbacks. There main objective is to take over the Southland Conference. I believe in due time that will happen. And in doing so, they will be attractive to a D-1 conference (lower one) who will help them make the jump to D-1 so UCA can be in their conference. So, the Razorbacks will be top dog in the state for a long time to come. But ASU and UCA have the chance to become strong players in the future.

aar0n

Quote from: SLC on January 06, 2008, 01:04:30 pm
I cheer for other AR schools, even though I never attended any but the UofA.  Whether it is UCA, UAPB or the Reddies (my wife is actually a Reddie and after learning what a Reddie is, they might be cultists...) anyway, I usually want those teams to win. 
The only exception being ASU, I have run into too many ASU fans who obnoxiously hate the UofA. 

I think everyone else from the UofA supports those schools too, please correct me if I am wrong.
You are 100% correct my friend.  ASU people are crazy.  Have you ever been to Jonesboro?  Every building is red and has some sort of Indians support message on it somewhere.

SLC

Quote from: alnaar0n on January 06, 2008, 01:14:24 pm
You are 100% correct my friend.  ASU people are crazy.  Have you ever been to Jonesboro?  Every building is red and has some sort of Indians support message on it somewhere.

Never been to Jonesboro, do not see a need to do so either. 
I need your truthful reply - lie, I will know it... and death will be no respite.

choralscholar

Quote from: SPIRITHOG on January 05, 2008, 10:36:13 pm
Most of the reason that USF is so strong is that they were able to take the rejects of the Florida pool.  Even those are a lot better than most states have.  I don't see UCA having that advantage.

Remember Zak Clark?  Still holds Division II passing records, if I am not mistaken.  Got no ball time at U of A.
"I used to work at a fire hydrant factory.  You couldn't park anywhere NEAR the place."  - Steven Wright

choralscholar

Quote from: junkyardhog on January 06, 2008, 12:19:37 pm
how many recruits come out of the Miami/Dade county area? You are going to compare Miami  to Conway, wow! I wonder if it the dolphins and the beach helped Miami get on track. Has Conway even overturned their ban on MTV?

Yeah, like ten years ago.
"I used to work at a fire hydrant factory.  You couldn't park anywhere NEAR the place."  - Steven Wright

Sao Ming

Quote from: alnaar0n on January 06, 2008, 01:01:15 pm
Have you ever heard the saying "talent is talent regardless of the stage?" 

I think you just summed up the entire premise of this thread bud.  UCA will never be what your dilusion of grandeur perceives them as.  That's part of the problem around here.  No matter what, folks think we deserve something just because it exists in the state of Arkansas.  Always better than perceived.  Sometimes, perception is reality no matter how you package it.

glkman69

NOt a chance that ASU or UCA is ever as big as U of A.....  I go to school at ASU, and I can probably name 75% of the Razorback players but I cant and dont care to know any of the ASU players.  A bunch of my friends and me go to the tailgates on saturdays and leave before the game to go watch the Hogs on TV.  That is why the U of A will always reign supreme.  Nobody cares about the other programs.

ArrowsATC

Quote from: hogdiggity on January 05, 2008, 05:39:24 pm
couldn't find numbers on thier web site, but it is low, growing but low compared to Arkansas.  I think their are minimum requirements to stay division 1 however.  Better competition will help this too. 
they aren't going to have 50 thousand in the stands, unless they play UA, ASU, or major powers

AVG att at UCA is around 10k....That is not an impressive number unless you look at the following:
Game Day Atmosphere is night and day from what it was three years ago. Tailgating, post game parties, etc.
Attendence RECORDS up until a couple of years ago were near the CURRENT average attendance.

Current numbers are not the issue, current changes and growth of those numbers is.

urbabysgotrabies

Quote from: Sao Ming on January 06, 2008, 02:36:27 pm
I think you just summed up the entire premise of this thread bud.  UCA will never be what your dilusion of grandeur perceives them as.  That's part of the problem around here.  No matter what, folks think we deserve something just because it exists in the state of Arkansas.  Always better than perceived.  Sometimes, perception is reality no matter how you package it.


Nathan Brown > Casey Dick x10


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur7gK00bZKs


Pig_Lebowski

It would nice if Casey Dick could throw 7 touchdown passes in a season!

Sao Ming

Quote from: Pig_Lebowski on January 06, 2008, 06:22:56 pm
It would nice if Casey Dick could throw 7 touchdown passes in a season!

I know right?  Maybe he could've done better than the 6-5 mark Brown put up against the likes of McNeese State, SFA and Northwestern State.  Rock on UCA.

junkyardhog

Posted by: alnaar0n

UCA is currently nearing 13,000, maybe 14.  A 50% increase would put them at 26-28,000.

Is that some UCA fuzzy math?

Mike Williams
'UA 03

Have had the handle junkyardhog since 2002(WP)

Sao Ming

Quote from: junkyardhog on January 06, 2008, 06:28:00 pm
Posted by: alnaar0n

UCA is currently nearing 13,000, maybe 14.  A 50% increase would put them at 26-28,000.

Is that some UCA fuzzy math?



He's probably in Theatre Arts.  Give him a break.  ;)

DickSonstreetDFW

Quote from: Sao Ming on January 06, 2008, 06:32:38 pm
He's probably in Theatre Arts.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Sao Ming

Quote from: DickSonstreetDFW on January 06, 2008, 06:33:39 pm
Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Not at all (sidesteps and puts on the ribbon...)

aar0n

Ok ok, I went back and looked at it and am aware that I was wrong.  I was a little "under the weather" at the time.  Does it scare anyone that I have a degree in marketing?

Also, there is nothing wrong with theater arts.  I don't have anything to do with them, but still.  Grow up.