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Author Topic: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."  (Read 2547 times)

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WilsonHog

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #150 on: September 12, 2017, 09:13:56 pm »


It will make the difference between finishing 2nd or 3rd in the SEC West vs finishing 6th or 7th.

That would be a significant improvement.
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Hogdomer

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #151 on: September 12, 2017, 09:24:53 pm »

I am NOT defending Long or Bielema.

I am citing facts.

In the 25 years Arkansas has been in the SEC, the Hogs have had 8 different head coaches.

Now, this number includes Reggie Herring, "head coach" for one bowl game, and Jack Crowe, fired one game into the first SEC season without actually coaching against an SEC opponent.

So make it 6 guys who've held the reins for at least one full season.

25 years. 6 head coaches.

Zero SEC titles.

Exactly three seasons of 10 wins or more. (2006 was 10 wins. 2010 was 10 wins. 2011 was 11 wins).

In contrast, there have been 9 seasons below .500 in the same time period.

That means three times as many losing seasons as seasons with double-digit wins since joining the SEC. 

Arkansas is Oklahoma State is Iowa is Cal is Indiana is North Carolina is Oregon State is any other similar football program that will not win any titles, will not make the 4-team playoff, and will be somewhere between really awful and second-rate any given year.

Point to the glorious past all you want. But Arkansas has demonstrated, for a quarter of a century and counting, its place in the college football landscape.

As a reminder, even Bobby Petrino couldn't beat Alabama, and his 11-win team finished 3rd in the SEC West.

Fire and hire all the coaches and athletic directors you want. I just don't see Arkansas' place changing all that much.

25 years is enough to convince me to not get too worked up about it.

  Who cares about winning the SEC!  That isn't the point.  We can't beat TCU, Texas Tech, Toledo, Mizzou or Texas A&M under this guy.  This isn't about beating the heavywieghts.  It's about being unprepared and playing lackluster over and over against teams with equal or lesser talent, many times at home.  We are to the point we were when HDN took over and the main goal was to beat SMU.
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Boston RedHogs

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #152 on: September 12, 2017, 09:42:19 pm »

I haven't posted on this board in YEARS....but here goes...

I feel like I'm in a similar camp as WilsonHog....I'm born and raised in Hot Springs, this is my home State's flagship institution of higher learning and my Alma Mater. I take great pride in knowing that, relatively speaking, we strive to compete on the level. I'm proud of the academic accomplishments Bielema and team have achieved and feel there is general stability in the program for the first time in a while

But when we reach the point where we are consistently mediocre on the field, I have no choice but to believe a coaching change is necessary.

It's 2017, and supporting Bielema and his style of play is akin to stubbornly sticking with Blockbuster in a world that has already transitioned to Netflix; we're outdated and the game has passed us by......
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HawgLife

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #153 on: September 12, 2017, 11:12:30 pm »

I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs." I do, however, believe in winning. That's why they keep score; it kind of matters.

Good. That's what Jeff Long believes too.

It seems that many have based their understanding of his beliefs on this topic on sensationalized headlines and misleading thread titles. Here's a few quotes from Jeff Long's appearances at the TD Clubs the past two weeks.

“Obviously, winning is very important. We all know that. It doesn’t have to be said. An AD doesn’t have to go out and make a statement that winning is important. We all know that’s part of what we do. Every coach on our staff knows that winning is part of their job. It’s an important part of their job.”

“We just need to win some more games. And Bret knows that.”

“We truly are working harder to win more games. Winning is important. There’s no question.”

"Yes, we want to win. Yes, it’s a priority. Yes, it eats us up from the inside that we don’t win more.”

“Nobody wants to win more games than Bret Bielema, so we all want to win games. That’s what we’re here for and that’s what competition is all about.”

“We know we’re here to win football games.”

“We’re working extremely hard to win more games. Winning is important.”

“He’ll be the first to admit, and so will I, we need to win more games. And we’re working really hard to do that.”

“….we’re going out every game to win it.”
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redneckfriend

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #154 on: September 12, 2017, 11:41:41 pm »

I haven't posted on this board in YEARS....but here goes...

I feel like I'm in a similar camp as WilsonHog....I'm born and raised in Hot Springs, this is my home State's flagship institution of higher learning and my Alma Mater. I take great pride in knowing that, relatively speaking, we strive to compete on the level. I'm proud of the academic accomplishments Bielema and team have achieved and feel there is general stability in the program for the first time in a while

But when we reach the point where we are consistently mediocre on the field, I have no choice but to believe a coaching change is necessary.

It's 2017, and supporting Bielema and his style of play is akin to stubbornly sticking with Blockbuster in a world that has already transitioned to Netflix; we're outdated and the game has passed us by......

I don't think you will find many Bielema defenders at this point. What it has come down to is those who worshipped Bobby P making that argument by the back door of abusing Jeff Long, suggesting in essence he had no reason to fire Bobby. In other words if you think Petrino was the second coming then Jeff Long must be the devil.
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Kevin

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #155 on: September 13, 2017, 08:00:39 am »

why can't a coach run basically a clean program, graduate kids, and try to win championships. why does winning championships have to mean win at all cost.

I think are baseball & track teams have chances to win titles, are they win at all cost programs.
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hawgmasta

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #156 on: September 13, 2017, 08:03:51 am »

why can't a coach run basically a clean program, graduate kids, and try to win championships. why does winning championships have to mean win at all cost.

I think are baseball & track teams have chances to win titles, are they win at all cost programs.

That's a good question but I think it has to do with the amount of money being made and spent. Whenever any sort of business is throwing around this kind of moolah there will be some that do anything to get ahead.

And let's not kid ourselves SEC football is big business.
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Kevin

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #157 on: September 13, 2017, 08:12:01 am »

That's a good question but I think it has to do with the amount of money being made and spent. Whenever any sort of business is throwing around this kind of moolah there will be some that do anything to get ahead.

And let's not kid ourselves SEC football is big business.

I ask the question based on it seems our ad thinks you either are a win at all cost or mediocre.
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HotlantaHog

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #158 on: September 13, 2017, 08:16:09 am »

To those who say we are having this discussion a little early, I kind of agree .... but I also think it's reasonable for folks to look at the TCU game (and end of last year) and extrapolate into the future.

Texas A&M is a bad team, has played pretty badly all year. I think Arkansas will win that game -- Arkansas has every reason to be motivated having lost to the Aggies year after year, and it wouldn't seem to be that difficult. South Carolina is a middling team -- likely to finish in the middle to lower part of the SEC East. They would be near the bottom of the SEC West. Muschamp isn't that great of a head coach, as he has proven in the SEC.

If Arkansas can somehow win those two games, a lot of the Fire Bielema and Fire JL talk will calm down a bit, and a winning season (7-5 or 8-4) would seem plausible. Lose ONE of those two games, and it gets difficult to see the season getting better. Who really thinks this team can compete with Alabama or LSU or Auburn for that matter?
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HotlantaHog

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #159 on: September 13, 2017, 08:18:21 am »

I don't think you will find many Bielema defenders at this point. What it has come down to is those who worshipped Bobby P making that argument by the back door of abusing Jeff Long, suggesting in essence he had no reason to fire Bobby. In other words if you think Petrino was the second coming then Jeff Long must be the devil.
You can believe Bobby Petrino is a very bad guy and think there would be some way to keep him on with a suspension, and negotiate the penalties over time. ...
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GuvHog

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #160 on: September 13, 2017, 08:31:39 am »

You can believe Bobby Petrino is a very bad guy and think there would be some way to keep him on with a suspension, and negotiate the penalties over time. ...

Exactly. What Bobby did was wrong but his transgressions did not merit termination.
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hogsanity

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #161 on: September 13, 2017, 08:46:43 am »

I ask the question based on it seems our ad thinks you either are a win at all cost or mediocre.


No, some who are win at all cost read and hear his comments AND INFER or IMPLY that he thinks that, even though NOTHING he said really means that at all.

But it goes deeper. It goes to the point that some fans believe the only way teams are winning is cheating, and therefore the Hogs should sell their souls and do the same. Here is the problem with that though, even if everyone is cheating, doing so yourself won't guarantee winning because everyone else may just start cheating more.
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JIMMY BOARFFETT

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #162 on: September 13, 2017, 08:49:47 am »

We need someone in charge of this program who has that "fire in their belly."  A fire that hasn't been quenched by a 15 million dollar buyout.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #163 on: September 13, 2017, 08:59:51 am »

Exactly. What Bobby did was wrong but his transgressions did not merit termination.
He had the opp to stay and chose something else.  There's another entire thread on it in the first page here.  But go ahead and blame Jeff Long and me and anyone else that was embarrassed by that April Fools junk. 
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hogsanity

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #164 on: September 13, 2017, 10:40:15 am »

We need someone in charge of this program who has that "fire in their belly."  A fire that hasn't been quenched by a 15 million dollar buyout.

Yea, cause " want to " has to be the problem. Actually "want to" is the problem, as in elite players do not have the "want to" come play here when they can go anywhere they "want to" and play all they "want To" usually closer to those who " want to " see them play " and " want to " do so in person. Also, the state of Ar does not " want to " do the things that would help make more in state talent because they do not " want to " upset a bunch of people who do not " want to " see their hole in the road school consolidated.
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ricepig

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #165 on: September 13, 2017, 10:54:17 am »

why can't a coach run basically a clean program, graduate kids, and try to win championships. why does winning championships have to mean win at all cost.

I think are baseball & track teams have chances to win titles, are they win at all cost programs.

Facilities and history, while we marvel at our football facilities, they are just average in the SEC. As to history of winning, well you know our history in football.....
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hogsanity

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #166 on: September 13, 2017, 10:56:39 am »

Facilities and history, while we marvel at our football facilities, they are just average in the SEC. As to history of winning, well you know our history in football.....

IMO, alot of people are in the anger stage over this as they are finally realizing 7-8 program is exactly what the Hogs program is. They are having trouble accepting that.
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Hogdomer

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #167 on: September 13, 2017, 10:57:22 am »

Facilities and history, while we marvel at our football facilities, they are just average in the SEC. As to history of winning, well you know our history in football.....

Our history in football and our current place both indicate we should be able to beat TCU, Texas Tech, Toledo, Texas A&M and Missouri.  This isn't about hogsanity's obsession with making sure the rubes know how stupid they are if they think we can compete with Bama, LSU and Auburn. 
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Oklahawg

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #168 on: September 13, 2017, 01:31:04 pm »

And to clarify, I am not defending Bielema.

Fire him all you want to. Run him out of the state.

Hire the coach of your dreams. It won't matter.

Well, it will matter exactly this much.

It will make the difference between finishing 2nd or 3rd in the SEC West vs finishing 6th or 7th.

And that's about as good as it gets for Arkansas since 1992. 

And, how the old coach exits and the new coach arrives can sure add some years between the 6th/7th and the 2nd/3rd.

I really enjoy your posts in this thread.
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hogman64

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #169 on: September 13, 2017, 01:45:56 pm »

probably not accurate to judge by appearance , but actually sometimes a change in appearance  is an indication of how someone is   functioning
in other ways......

Look at the BB the day we hired him and look at the BB now.....

At times I  feel like maybe  Wisconsin had that coach we hired on that day  and we have the one you see now....
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ImHogginIt

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #170 on: September 13, 2017, 08:57:58 pm »

You all will be kissing on Jeff and Bert when they end the season 11-1...(I'm not drunk, but wish I was) count on it!   You'll all be saying what a brilliant AD Jeff is for having a significant buyout for Bret...

 :) :D ;D

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HatfieldHog

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Re: I do not Believe in "Win-at-all-Costs."
« Reply #171 on: September 13, 2017, 09:32:21 pm »

"Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing"

See ya
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