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  • #151 by hogsanity on 12 Sep 2017
  • I agree with you but if we fans are going to start being realistic, that narrative is going to have to come from the top down, meaning the university.

    The university openly fought Senator Pryor's argument that spending $160 million to add 4,000 seats to a middling program's football stadium might not be the best idea.

    160 million for 4k seats and a few suites? Who's setting the tone for realistic expectations in that scenario?

    I am pretty sure the comment made over oh I don't know the last 20 years are pretty clear if you want to see it. Long has basically said we are a middling program. History shows we are a middling program. Our record for 25 years in the SEC shows that too. Just because we have donors willing to pony up money, and people willing to buy bonds, or provide other financing does not change that.
  • #152 by Redhogs on 12 Sep 2017
  • Wow, Bielema loses a game and it's Long's fault. I would call that logic about as incogitant as I have ever read. Jeff Long, after the debacle inflicted on the school by "Bobby" Petrino, found a successful head coach at a P-5 school and brought him here. That coach has not lived up to expectations, I don't think there is any argument there, but that is certainly not Long's fault.

    The real issue here seems to be the cockroaches (i.e. Bobby Petrino supporters) are feeling emboldened to come out of the woodwork in the light of day. They aren't courageous enough to say what they really mean- Long should have overlooked Petrino's crimes (first among those, let's be honest, was hiring a whore with stolen money) so the argument is that Long doesn't care about winning, all he cares about is (scoff) integrity. And of course, if you want a false dichotomy, that works pretty well- integrity vs. winning because that is the excluded middle argument that is being proposed by the die hard Petrino lovers.

    Of course that is laughable, Long wants to win, the men who hired Long want to win and they all want to do it with clean hands. It won't be easy at Arkansas because recruiting is hard at Arkansas but that is still the goal. If Bielema can't do it they will try someone else, and then someone else if he can't do it, but I don't think they are going to want to get into the dirt like some of the fans here and win at all costs- including the reputation of the state's flagship university.
    Gawd you are lost.....try to catch up...you are only 4 years behind. BP has nothing to do with Bert's failure. What he did do however, was show that you can win here, and that makes all your Bert loving excuse making invalid....and you CAN'T STAND THAT. Talk about an agenda, excepting a failed FB program is yours, and some of us are not going to hop on that group think.
  • #153 by Redhogs on 12 Sep 2017
  • When someone makes the statement about not wanting to win at all costs, it is coming from someone who isn't winning. The rub here is for the listener to infer that we aren't winning more because you have to cheat to do so. JL negotiated one of the dumbest contracts given to a football coach who had done nothing in his current job, he had the guy under contract and he let the emotions of a 7-6 season lead him to offer up an extension with hefty raise, along with a ridiculous one sided buyout that effectively  makes it impossible for the university to fire him yet he was free to jump ship at any time if had found success because his part of the buyout was so low.
    Thank -you.
  • #154 by tusked on 12 Sep 2017
  • Long is getting absolutely annihilated on the SEC Rant board.  He needs to either clarify or completely walk back his statements.

     http://www.secrant.com/rant/sec-football/arkansas-not-a-win-at-all-cost-program--long/72112193/

    A few comments:

    Unbelievable, if that is the direction he is taking the program then why have tickets gone up 1 million percent since he has gotten here? For the amount of money they are asking for the result is that they aren't even really trying?

    That is the final cop out rationalization.

    The "we are losers but we lose with integrity" argument doesn't sell in the SEC and doesn't put butts in the stands, Jeff

    He has no problem taking your money. Doesn't seem all that interested in putting a quality product on the field

    This is shocking to me, why are we even in the SEC? We should probably consider moving to the MAC.

    What a biiiatch statement. I would be sick if I was a hog fan really now. Sure u don't sacrifice integrity etc etc just to win but it can be done the right way. Arkansas football is the lifeblood of that athletic program and statements like that makes ya wander if they have the right leader

    As long as you have that in charge of your program you will always be mid lower third of sec west.

    And Bert is your man.

    "Arkansas not a win-at-all-cost program..."
    obvious statement is obvious

    But but but he's loved outside the state.
  • #155 by go hogues on 12 Sep 2017
  • I am pretty sure the comment made over oh I don't know the last 20 years are pretty clear if you want to see it. Long has basically said we are a middling program. History shows we are a middling program. Our record for 25 years in the SEC shows that too. Just because we have donors willing to pony up money, and people willing to buy bonds, or provide other financing does not change that.
    Exactly. But spend it on other stuff.

    They could have gutted the inside of the BAC to make a game day locker room and painted the exterior brick red and it would have been plenty to improve the look and functionality of the NEZ.

    Take that 160 million and pump it into the baseball program and solidify us as one of America's premiere baseball programs, for example.

    If the university knows we're a middling football program and always will be, why continue to feed the narrative that we belong among the elite?
  • #156 by hogsanity on 12 Sep 2017
  • Exactly. But spend it on other stuff.

    They could have gutted the inside of the BAC to make a game day locker room and painted the exterior brick red and it would have been plenty to improve the look and functionality of the NEZ.

    Take that 160 million and pump it into the baseball program and solidify us as one of America's premiere baseball programs, for example.

    If the university knows we're a middling football program and always will be, why continue to feed the narrative that we belong among the elite?

    What else could they do for baseball? They already have one of the very few baseball programs that is self sustaining.

    But I agree 160mil for this renovation is stupid.
  • #157 by NaturalStateReb on 12 Sep 2017
  • If they want to turn Arkansas into Vanderbilt where we have a good season once every 10 years then fine, but why are they asking for so much money?  What's the point of donating thousands of dollars for the right to buy a ticket to watch a game where the University doesn't even support being competitive in the conference?  Why are we in the SEC? 

    I don't think any of us want to be in the Ole Miss situation but football is a game of inches and a win at all costs type of sport.  If you aren't willing to get near the thin line then you will never be able to win a conference championship much less a national championship.  Their mind set is very confusing to me.

    This does explain though the lack of tenacity over the past few years.  We aren't setup to win anything now or in the future.


    If you want to beat Saban, there's a price to be paid.  If you actually do start beating him, there's an even bigger price.
  • #158 by ricepig on 12 Sep 2017
  • Exactly. But spend it on other stuff.

    They could have gutted the inside of the BAC to make a game day locker room and painted the exterior brick red and it would have been plenty to improve the look and functionality of the NEZ.

    Take that 160 million and pump it into the baseball program and solidify us as one of America's premiere baseball programs, for example.

    If the university knows we're a middling football program and always will be, why continue to feed the narrative that we belong among the elite?

    We are one of America's premier baseball programs, and all one has ever read was the BAC is an eyesore, tear it down. The $160m for the NEZ isn't a financial problem, it's going to be paid for with suites, Loge boxes, and club seats.

    Who knows, Gruden may come and they'll need to add a third deck!
  • #159 by tusked on 12 Sep 2017
  • We are one of America's premier baseball programs, and all one has ever read was the BAC is an eyesore, tear it down. The $160m for the NEZ isn't a financial problem, it's going to be paid for with suites, Loge boxes, and club seats.

    Who knows, Gruden may come and they'll need to add a third deck!

    rice what's your threshold of pain?

    how many losses before it's not worth it for you? 
  • #160 by go hogues on 12 Sep 2017
  • What else could they do for baseball? They already have one of the very few baseball programs that is self sustaining.

    But I agree 160mil for this renovation is stupid.
    It was just an example.

    Take the money our donors graciously give and put it into programs that actually have a shot at competing for championships and gather the fans around THAT narrative. "I'm a Hog fan and we'll kick your a$$ in baseball because we're a baseball school".
  • #161 by jkstock04 on 12 Sep 2017
  • If BP proved it, so did HDN, Ford, Hatfield, Holtz, and JFB. Again, what did BP do that had not been done before? You cant say BCS, because we had to the Ornage Bowl twice, and the Sugar Bowl twice and the Cotton at least twice when they were 3 of the 4 major nyd bowls.
    I can't speak much for the old timers I wasn't around. But ya, Broyles and Holtz were evidently pretty badass coaches. I wonder if we had a "winning first" mentality back then? I bet we did.

    Hatfield...ya what did that guy do avg 8-9 wins/year and we canned him? I was a little kid then...not my time not completely sure what happened. The Ford years? I guess he pretty well sucked from my understanding. "The ford years" often referred to. I guess he recruited pretty good there towards the end. But he never got close to 10 wins I don't think.

    We all know about Nutt. Yes he had 2 or 3 good years out of 10. Went to the SEC championship. I still don't think he's the same caliber coach Petrino is. We lived in the top 10 rankings when he got things going...I miss that. I miss big marquee games too.

    So what did he do? I guess for me I enjoyed Hog football more then than I do now. He got people "excited" lol I know you hate that word describing football. But it wasn't so much the style of play...I think people were excited to have a good team on the verge of being elite. Other than that we had a couple great years before he was fired.

    I would get excited about Bielema if he actually delivered on a NFL quality O-line and we started bowling over 8 man fronts. That would be awesome and I can get behind that...just don't see it happening. Gonna be tough.
  • #162 by bkjbearcat on 12 Sep 2017
  • Did we pass on Damarea Crockett because we're not a win at all cost program?  I read on here that we passed on him for off the field reasons. 

    Win at all cost doesn't necessarily mean you have to cheat but in the SEC you HAVE to take grade risks and behavior risks.  If you're Arkansas, you have to to compete.

    Akial Byers comes to mind too. I know no one thought he would qualify. But he did and a 4* player from Fayetteville is at Missouri.
  • #163 by hogcard1964 on 12 Sep 2017
  • Alabama is at the pinnacle of college football. Message boards still rip them apart, despite every fan in America wanting the success Alabama has.

    Do you really think they care about how they're "viewed from the outside?" It's not good for them, either.

    Message boards speak for nothing. If Twitter and Facebook and message boards actually reflected sentiments of the majority, a lot of stuff in this world would be a lot different across many facets.

    Then why voice your opinion at all?
  • #164 by ricepig on 12 Sep 2017
  • rice what's your threshold of pain?

    how many losses before it's not worth it for you? 

    Well, first, I'm going to continue to go to games. I've been going since I was 9 in 1967. Next, what I want hasn't ever mattered, I'm smart enough to understand that. I think if we go 3-9, 4-8, he doesn't return for next year, outside of that, he has 2018 to put forth a stellar season. As much as some like to think, I don't like losing, in fact I'm a pretty sorry loser, just ask anyone that every played against me, be it a sporting event or a board game. I was told he was given 6 years, I fully expect him to be here for 6 years.

    I've stated here and elsewhere that I support the university and thus it's coach and administration. That may not fit your agenda, but until you do something to burn that trust, I'll continue to support you. I guess I have a slower boil rate on coaching changes than others, doesn't make me right, or the others, just says we have different opinions on it.

    As to your question, he needs to average 8 wins the next two years in my book.
  • #165 by RyanMallettsEgo on 12 Sep 2017
  • Then why voice your opinion at all?

    You missed the point. You can speak your opinion. You and I both do. But I don't think my or your opinion is absolute for a much larger body. Especially from, like I said, social media and message boards.
  • #166 by ricepig on 12 Sep 2017
  • It was just an example.

    Take the money our donors graciously give and put it into programs that actually have a shot at competing for championships and gather the fans around THAT narrative. "I'm a Hog fan and we'll kick your a$$ in baseball because we're a baseball school".

    No one is stopping our fans from donating millions to the baseball program. I'm always asked or indicate what sport my donation goes to.
  • #167 by DLUXHOG on 12 Sep 2017
  • Hang on folks, Bielema will go 11-1 this season....  what are all you pissers and moaners going to say then?
  • #168 by ricepig on 12 Sep 2017
  • Akial Byers comes to mind too. I know no one thought he would qualify. But he did and a 4* player from Fayetteville is at Missouri.

    Good for him, not every player fits every program. Philon didn't fit into Bama's plan, it happens all across college football every year.
  • #169 by RyanMallettsEgo on 12 Sep 2017
  • Hang on folks, Bielema will go 11-1 this season....  what are all you pissers and moaners going to say then?

    "Bobby would've beaten TCU."
  • #170 by BroyledNutts on 12 Sep 2017
  • What else could they do for baseball? They already have one of the very few baseball programs that is self sustaining.
     

    The other members of the SEC have dramatically improved their baseball facilities within the last 3 years, sinking millions into renovations of existing facilities, or building new ones ... Baum Stadium used to consistenly rank in the top 5 nationally of the nicest facilities in the nation - now it's not even in the top 20 or even 25 ... Teams within the SEC with typically average seasons and few, if any, appearances at the CWS have felt the pressure of the facility arms race and invested heavily in new stadiums, practice facilities, guest amenities ... Alabama, Kentucky, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, and Georgia all have either brand new stadiums or are in the process of building them ... yet Arkansas is stagnant. There has been a working plan for a Baum renovation for nearly ten years, but revisions for basketball and the money pit of football have been the priority for Jeff, cause he knows that's where he can gouge the deepest and fans will still show up.

    It would only take ONE check from the SEC from TV or from another Bama title to completely fund Baum's transformation back to the jewel of college baseball, but as Coach Van Horn has stated many times, "It's not happening in my lifetime." Why? Most likely because the baseball program is self sufficient - if it is making money in its current state, there's no need to pour money into it to entice people to pay more or show up. Our baseball program, minus one season, under DVH has been the 2nd most consistently performing program in the Athletic Department (Track being #1)...yet there's no impetuous to improve anything related to it. Jeff isn't interested in making premier programs elite - he's interested in fleecing the gullible - and college football is littered with gullible fans and expendable income.
  • #171 by DLUXHOG on 12 Sep 2017
  • "Bobby would've beaten TCU."
    "Bret would have beaten Louisana Monroe!"
  • #172 by ricepig on 12 Sep 2017
  • The other members of the SEC have dramatically improved their baseball facilities within the last 3 years, sinking millions into renovations of existing facilities, or building new ones ... Baum Stadium used to consistenly rank in the top 5 nationally of the nicest facilities in the nation - now it's not even in the top 20 or even 25 ... Teams within the SEC with typically average seasons and few, if any, appearances at the CWS have felt the pressure of the facility arms race and invested heavily in new stadiums, practice facilities, guest amenities ... Alabama, Kentucky, Texas A&M, Mississippi State, and Georgia all have either brand new stadiums or are in the process of building them ... yet Arkansas is stagnant. There has been a working plan for a Baum renovation for nearly ten years, but revisions for basketball and the money pit of football have been the priority for Jeff, cause he knows that's where he can gouge the deepest and fans will still show up.

    It would only take ONE check from the SEC from TV or from another Bama title to completely fund Baum's transformation back to the jewel of college baseball, but as Coach Van Horn has stated many times, "It's not happening in my lifetime." Why? Most likely because the baseball program is self sufficient - if it is making money in its current state, there's no need to pour money into it to entice people to pay more or show up. Our baseball program, minus one season, under DVH has been the 2nd most consistently performing program in the Athletic Department (Track being #1)...yet there's no impetuous to improve anything related to it. Jeff isn't interested in making premier programs elite - he's interested in fleecing the gullible - and college football is littered with gullible fans and expendable income.

    Baum stadium is still very nice, plus we have a wonderful indoor facility. Let's not act like we're OM and playing basketball in the Tad Pad as they were. Outside of some more suites, we don't need any additional seating. Football hits it's capacity way more often than baseball does, and I love baseball.
  • #173 by hogcard1964 on 12 Sep 2017
  • "Bret would have beaten Louisana Monroe!"

    Bret would have "eaten" both.

  • #174 by go hogues on 12 Sep 2017
  • No one is stopping our fans from donating millions to the baseball program. I'm always asked or indicate what sport my donation goes to.
    Forget baseball! Good lord some of you guys are dense.

    I was making a point that the fans unrealistic expectations are set by the narratives the athletic department sets. Our athletic department continues to behave in a way that sets a "we are football elite" narrative. They hire a 4million dollar coach from Wisconsin, they spend 40k per seat on a stadium upgrade, they give us a SECOND jumbotron, etc.

    If they would change the narrative, it would change people's expectations. Make us a baseball school, a swimming school or a chicken farming school, it doesn't matter, either quit telling the fans we're an elite football school or quit getting pissy when they call out the shortcomings of your football program.
  • #175 by Malvin on 12 Sep 2017
  • Quote
    So what did he do? I guess for me I enjoyed Hog football more then than I do now. He got people "excited" lol I know you hate that word describing football. But it wasn't so much the style of play...I think people were excited to have a good team on the verge of being elite. Other than that we had a couple great years before he was fired.

    I have to admit, back then it was exciting to watch.  At least we hit some people and the kids played with a chip on their shoulder. 
  • #176 by Rock City Razorback on 12 Sep 2017
  • Yep. I have to give him credit, he's a snake, but he's a smart snake. Would make an awesome bureaucrat.

    Can't believe he's been here almost 10 years...
  • #177 by ricepig on 12 Sep 2017
  • Forget baseball! Good lord some of you guys are dense.

    I was making a point that the fans unrealistic expectations are set by the narratives the athletic department sets. Our athletic department continues to behave in a way that sets a "we are football elite" narrative. They hire a 4million dollar coach from Wisconsin, they spend 40k per seat on a stadium upgrade, they give us a SECOND jumbotron, etc.

    If they would change the narrative, it would change people's expectations. Make us a baseball school, a swimming school or a chicken farming school, it doesn't matter, either quit telling the fans we're an elite football school or quit getting pissy when they call out the shortcomings of your football program.
    No you're the dense one if you think that narrative will fly. I realize you were being facetious, or would hope so, but we're a football school.
  • #178 by BroyledNutts on 12 Sep 2017
  • Baum stadium is still very nice, plus we have a wonderful indoor facility. Let's not act like we're OM and playing basketball in the Tad Pad as they were. Outside of some more suites, we don't need any additional seating. Football hits it's capacity way more often than baseball does, and I love baseball.

    I know you know what I'm talking about ... you and I both spend lots of time in EI every year discussing things like this...and I also know you know that we are falling behind in baseball - the indoor facility is nice - but DVH has repeatedly stated he would like to update Baum, but he knows it will never happen under his tenure ... and you also know why he says that, because you have been there when it was said.
  • #179 by 311Hog on 12 Sep 2017
  • Leave baseball out of this please, or Long might actually start paying more attention to it.

    Leave it and DVH the F alone.

    ^^ this baseball doesn't exist there is no baseball team....
  • #180 by 311Hog on 12 Sep 2017
  • I know you know what I'm talking about ... you and I both spend lots of time in EI every year discussing things like this...and I also know you know that we are falling behind in baseball - the indoor facility is nice - but DVH has repeatedly stated he would like to update Baum, but he knows it will never happen under his tenure ... and you also know why he says that, because you have been there when it was said.

    Sheeet man if DVH goes out and wins a Natty i bet Baum gets that renovation what do you think?
  • #181 by BroyledNutts on 12 Sep 2017
  • No you're the dense one if you think that narrative will fly. I realize you were being facetious, or would hope so, but we're a football school.

    We are a football first school - always have been...but we are neither elite or premier...results on the field prove it.
  • #182 by go hogues on 12 Sep 2017
  • No you're the dense one if you think that narrative will fly. I realize you were being facetious, or would hope so, but we're a football school.
    Are we? I thought we were a basketball school? Or a track school? We've been pretty dang good in baseball for the last decade or so...

    There is a lot of wiggle room on the direction we could take our athletic program. They could begin to change that narrative. Sure it might take some time but the 'acting one way and performing in another' will continue to lead to ESPN polls about us being the most miserable fan base and the like.
  • #183 by BroyledNutts on 12 Sep 2017
  • Sheeet man if DVH goes out and wins a Natty i bet Baum gets that renovation what do you think?

    No chance, as long as Jeff sees the need to "improve" football.
  • #184 by hogsanity on 12 Sep 2017
  • Are we? I thought we were a basketball school? Or a track school? We've been pretty dang good in baseball for the last decade or so...

    There is a lot of wiggle room on the direction we could take our athletic program. They could begin to change that narrative. Sure it might take some time but the 'acting one way and performing in another' will continue to lead to ESPN polls about us being the most miserable fan base and the like.

    Most of the fans only care about football. Why that is, I have no idea.
  • #185 by ricepig on 12 Sep 2017
  • I know you know what I'm talking about ... you and I both spend lots of time in EI every year discussing things like this...and I also know you know that we are falling behind in baseball - the indoor facility is nice - but DVH has repeatedly stated he would like to update Baum, but he knows it will never happen under his tenure ... and you also know why he says that, because you have been there when it was said.

    Seriously, the only baseball schools I worry about are LSU, OM, and I guess MSU now that they are doing some work. The new parks that hold less than 5000 don't worry me. Anyway, we're talking football!
  • #186 by 311Hog on 12 Sep 2017
  • Most of the fans only care about football. Why that is, I have no idea.

    Football is the most popular in the south, it is the most visible, the most profitable etc. Fans may want football success but it is by far the least likely to come.

    IMHO Baseball is most likely going forward. 
  • #187 by 311Hog on 12 Sep 2017
  • No chance, as long as Jeff sees the need to "improve" football.

    If he isn't willing to invest in a bag man then it is wasted cash lol. Maybe when Benny signs his next deal he will donate for the renovation =)
  • #188 by bkjbearcat on 12 Sep 2017
  • Leave baseball out of this please, or Long might actually start paying more attention to it.

    Leave it and DVH the F alone.

    Can he leave basketball alone too?
  • #189 by hogsanity on 12 Sep 2017
  • Football is the most popular in the south, it is the most visible, the most profitable etc. Fans may want football success but it is by far the least likely to come.

    IMHO Baseball is most likely going forward. 

    YEp, and I would say why baseball is most likely, but it might get me trouble. Lets just say demographically, Arkansas is much more suited for baseball than football.
  • #190 by Seebs on 12 Sep 2017
  • If dogcrap could scream, it would sound like a football message board when it is scraped from the bottom of a shoe.

    I know this because I post on one.

    Bunch of Nancys
  • #191 by DeltaBoy on 12 Sep 2017
  • Hang on folks, Bielema will go 11-1 this season....  what are all you pissers and moaners going to say then?

    Put down a mug of LONG Kool Aid!
  • #192 by Hogdomer on 12 Sep 2017
  • If you want to beat Saban, there's a price to be paid.  If you actually do start beating him, there's an even bigger price.

    Once again, forget Alabama!  We just want to beat the teams we regularly beat before we became rich and part of the mighty SEC; teams like TCU, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, Toledo, etc.
  • #193 by 311Hog on 12 Sep 2017
  • Put down a mug of LONG Kool Aid!

    but what if we go 11-1 and TCU goes undefeated and wins the Natty ?
  • #194 by Seebs on 12 Sep 2017
  • Put down a mug of LONG Kool Aid!

    Pick up a book
  • #195 by DLUXHOG on 12 Sep 2017
  • but what if we go 11-1 and TCU goes undefeated and wins the Natty ?

    I have the same question...
  • #196 by Kevin on 12 Sep 2017
  • Long did not hire the golf coach. That guy does a great job.

    Baum is falling behind. Now, that baseball is getting extended exposure, more schools are putting big money into their facilities.

    I bet if baseball gets to Omaha, long will find a way to get his face on tv.
  • #197 by ND on 12 Sep 2017
  • Man, this guy never passes up an opportunity to take a dig at the previous administration. (shakes head)

    Am I missing something?  Was academics and behavior a huge problem 10 years ago?  I mean sure, we had some bad apples, every school does, but I don't recall it being the sort of problem that was dragging down the school or causing all sorts of undue negativity on the public stage or hurting attendance or any of that.  Am I wrong?  I very well could be.  I've slept a few times and had a couple of beers since the mid to late 2000's. 

    But it's like Long is making it sound like we were the Miami of the SEC or something and he came in and cleaned it all up.  Yeeeah.

    When you're winning, behavior and GPAs typically aren't a huge problem, because players want to keep playing ...and keep winning.
     
    N
  • #198 by hogsanity on 12 Sep 2017
  • What if find hilarious is how many of you that  do not like Long are the very same ones that screamed for the good ole boy network to end. IT did, they brought in outsiders, and you can't stand that either.
  • #199 by ND on 12 Sep 2017
  • What if find hilarious is how many of you that  do not like Long are the very same ones that screamed for the good ole boy network to end. IT did, they brought in outsiders, and you can't stand that either.

    Although I totally get what you're saying and agree to an extent, all he really did was just get rid of the existing one and replace it with his own.  Six one way, half a dozen another.

    N
  • #200 by PorkRinds on 12 Sep 2017
  • Jeff Long:

    "Yes it eats us up inside when we don't win more".

    Translation from hogville:

    "Jeff Long admits to not even trying".

    Impossible to argue with such rock hard logic.
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