Sports Illustrated writer Advocating "Arkansas should be in Big 12" (Article)

[Killean]

Is the SEC that much stronger than the Big 12. Maybe a little stronger, but not that huge if you look at it. Here is a breakdown if you threw us in and threw Baylor out.

Football
SECW                          Big 12 S
LSU                             Texas            Texas gets the edge
Auburn                         Oklahoma       toss up
Alabama                       Texas Tech     Alabama gets the edge
Mississippi                     Texas A&M     A&M get this one
Mississippi St.                OKlahoma St.  Okie St. gets it

looks to me that we would actually be in a tougher division in the Big 12 South than the SEC west. Obviously the SEC East is far superior to the Big 12 north, but the big 12 south would be a monster in football

Basketball

SEC W                        Big 12 S
LSU                            Texas             again texas with the edge
Alabama                      Oklahoma        this is a tough one ---but I think OU get this
Ole Miss                       Okie St.          cowboys get this
Miss St.                       Tech              Tech
Auburn                         A&M               Aggies

again the SEC EAST is superior to the Big 12 North, but guys as far as I am concerned, when I see this comparison..the actual division we would be playing in would be an upgrade. Hard to beleive but true.

So much for the myth

WPS

Except for the fact that the SEC East is also completely superior to the Big 12 South.  So basically you're saying that the weakest conference in the SEC, minus Arkansas which isn't nearly as bad is Baylor, is just a bit weaker than the Strongest conference in the Big 12.  Not to mention the fact that this is so close in a DOWN year for the SEC.

In the past 15 years, which conference has won more national titles in Football and Basketball, the SEC West or the Big 12 South.  SEC West has 2 football titles.  Big 12 South has 2 football titles.  SEC West has a basketball title and the Big 12 as a whole hasn't even won one since 1988.  Auburn would have had at least a chance to play for a national title 2 years ago if not for a Big 12 South team that didn't belong.




I think Arkansas should play Kansas more.. purely for the comedy involved when our mascot brings a big A and R and lays them on the floor by the Kansas logo..

[Sanctified Swine]

All us Arkansas fans that live in Texas would love to see the Hogs playing UT, TT, and A&M every year.

[hogSGreer]

Here is a map of the locations of the 5 major conferences.  I split the ACC divisions since they are geographical nonsense.  Maybe it will be helpful to some.

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[Calvin N Hawgs]

Here come the smites, but...  All you people that are talking about how much you want to stay in the SEC because of the $$$, then turn right around and criticize JFB and/or JL because they seem to worship the almighty $ more than they care about "fans" or what the fans want.   

I'm just sayin' that GEOGRAPHICALLY the school is more suited for the Big XII...  Money seems to be the biggest reason to stay in the SEC.  I understand that everybody doesn't live in NWA, but if you were a student here (I'm not) and wanted to go to a game on Saturday the closest game is Starkville (500.2 mi)... there are 4 schools in the Big XII under 300 miles away. 

[hogshank]

I'm just sayin' that GEOGRAPHICALLY the school is more suited for the Big XII...  Money seems to be the biggest reason to stay in the SEC.  I understand that everybody doesn't live in NWA, but if you were a student here (I'm not) and wanted to go to a game on Saturday the closest game is Starkville (500.2 mi)... there are 4 schools in the Big XII under 300 miles away. 

No its not. The land grant was in the northwest corner of the state, but this is the state of Arkansas' University. Geographically, culturally, in every concievable way, we are a Southern state, filled with Southerners. How many Ole Mrs students would you figure you see at Neylan Stadium on a Tenn/ Ole Mrs. game day? We are where we should be.

[Sanctified Swine]

I'll bet we have more Razorbacks in Texas than we have in Loozanna, Miss, and BAMA combined

[FLKeysGuy]

Here is a map of the locations of the 5 major conferences.  I split the ACC divisions since they are geographical nonsense.  Maybe it will be helpful to some.

Thanks for the map!  After looking at it, there is much validity to the argument when you consider it from a recruiting standpoint.  It would be kinda fun to play OU and TX on a regular basis.

[mutdog]

Geographically speaking, the Hogs should be in the Big 12. 

Now, with that said, How would it effect our recruiting?  Could we recruit better in Missouri, Texas, and Oklahoma which are all neighboring states? 

I don't know.  What are your thoughts.

[hogshank]

agreed...what is hogshank talking about...i live in NWA and this might be a southern state but i could care less about the SEC schools...i graduated from fayetteville...and i dont have one friend at an SEC school...all of them are either in the Big 12 or Pac 10...like it or not...thats just what we do up here.

Congrats! You've finally managed to string together a semi-cogent thought. If you want to know what I'm talking about, go back and read my post. This University is about more than northwest arkansas, and frankly, who gives a damn where you do or don't have friends?

[HawgWyld]

We had 60 years of playing these SWC schools, that is why people are drawn to them.  We only have 15 years in the SEC.  Wait till 50 years from now and see if people are still talking about the SWC schools.  We will get our rivalries in the SEC.  I can tell you the LSU football matchup is getting better and better.  That boot will start to mean something.

Of course people won't be talking about SWC schools 50 years from now! That would put us in 2066, and most everyone who remembers the old SWC will be dead by then.

And, that silly boot still won't mean crap 50 years from now, either

It is a silly boot...at least it's gold!!

Can't argue with that a bit!

[D-macs cuz]

I love the SEC, but it does make more sence to be playing Texas, etc. i.e once again the SWC.

[lyon98]

GaTech was a member of the sec. Probably a charter menber, a much better fit than Clemson. By the way, Red Parker was the first Clemson coach to beat GA and GaTech in the same year.

[FLKeysGuy]

agreed...what is hogshank talking about...i live in NWA and this might be a southern state but i could care less about the SEC schools...i graduated from fayetteville...and i dont have one friend at an SEC school...all of them are either in the Big 12 or Pac 10...like it or not...thats just what we do up here.

Congrats! You've finally managed to string together a semi-cogent thought. If you want to know what I'm talking about, go back and read my post. This University is about more than northwest arkansas, and frankly, who gives a damn where you do or don't have friends?

The U of A is, indeed, the whole state's #1 university.  However, Arkansas seldom consistently generates enough D1 prospects to 'staff' the programs with new talent.  So, if you look at it from a prospective recruit's standpoint, "where" (geographically) may have as much to do with the decision as "where" (the program).  I still believe the SEC is a better conference, but I'm beginning to wonder if it's really a better conference for us.  My first post on this thread kinda bashed the sports writer for even bringing up the topic, but after looking at the map and reading mom's post, there are some things to consider.

[SirCHog]

If you align yourself with the belief that Arkansas is a "southwestern" state, then you probably believe we should be in the Big 12.  I've even heard Arkansas described as a mid-western state?  If, like myself, you see Arkansas as a southern state, then the SEC is where we should be.  Even when we were in the SWC, I wanted to be in the SEC.  From a geographical stand point does it make sense, no.  But I think others are right, going back to the Big 12 (SWC) would be a step backwards.

[lyon98]

They don't grow cotton and rice in Nebraska.

[big boes]

if i were ad, there's no way i'd except a spot in the b12 south.  dump iowa st and let the hogs join the b12 north.  then play texas every year as our opponent from the south.  if the hogs switched to the b12 louisville should get the first call from the sec.  natural rivalry with uk and decent in fball and bball.

[rlamb]

Tuck, if are going to play TEXAS & OKLAHOMA (out of conference) YOU MIGHT AS WELL BE IN THE BIG 12 BECAUSE WHICH TEAMS ARE TOUGHER THERE THAN THOSE 2 ANYWAY??

[wrightobe]

I like the SEC, but the main problem I see that hurts the Razorbacks in SEC competition is that all the championship games are played in Atlanta, New Orleans, sunny Florida, etc., which makes the championship game a "home game" for a majority of the SEC schools, except for Arkansas.  We are unable to have a "home majority" such as we had in Dallas with our football and basketball games.  Many times Dallas was referred to as "Fayetteville South".  I believe the women' SEC tournament is going to be played in Little Rock at Alltel Arena, but getting the men's championship games in Arkansas is slim to none.  Memphis, however, might be a possibility.

[pigture perfect]

I hate Texas,(all of them -A & M, SMU, etc.) I turned down a huge promotion because they wanted me to go to Dallas. I wouldn't go because I didn't want the kiddies to even have sympathy for Bevo the Butthead. But I have to be honest, I hate Lsu and Tenn. just as much if not more.

[Ugly Uncle]

No way you can hate LSU more than Texas.  Yes, Tennessee is right up there with Texas...but Texas is still number one in my heart...to poop on.

[hogfancb]

Only one reason I would love to go to the Big 12.


Lose JP Sports, cause them announcers suck.

[bighog1015]

he makes a good argument but personally i like watching us in the sec for tall the time ive been watchin hogs football and basketball ive seen them in the sec and i wouldnt want that to change.

[CiriusPorker]

No way you can hate LSU more than Texas.  Yes, Tennessee is right up there with Texas...but Texas is still number one in my heart...to poop on.

for slightly older than current college student fans...that is true.  But those who are there now and who have just gotten out...don't see Texas as that big of a deal.  Tennessee and Auburn are becoming the hated teams.

[SooiecidetillNuttgone]

He makes a fantastic argument, indeed. It would be downright outstanding to play Texas every year -- you can still hear Arkansas fans talk about that Cotton Bowl victory a few years back, in fact, and people still hate the Longhorns a hell of a lot more than Auburn, Alabama, South Carolina, LSU and etc., etc. Besides, this part of the world just "fits" a lot better with Missouri, Texas and Oklahoma than it does with Florida and South Carolina.

I can't say I agree.  I would like to see a regular series with Texas.  Playing OU occasionally would be fun.   Besides those two, I would rather play almost everyone in the SEC more than anyone in the Big 12, and I'm starting to get to the point where I feel some actual rivalries growing.
Bottom Line:  If we were in a position to have SEC conference games be as meaningful as they were with Texas back in the SWC, then rivalries would QUICKLY grow because we wouldn't win all those games.  Dislike would quickly follow.  You know?

[razorbacker80]

If you ask me today... living in Texas it is a no-brainer.  I'd like to see Arkansas in the Big 12. 

I think you have to ponder the longer-term future of the conference structures.  I foresee the formation of "super" super-conferences with 16 teams.  I think this will be the forerunner of a playoff system where there are 4 of these 16 team super-conferences.  Hopefully during that realignment... we will hook back up with the Texas schools. 

Not being able to draw the talent pool from Texas really hurts recruiting, imho.

[three]

He makes a good argument TODAY.  But, what about when we get good at one or both of the two main sports (football and basketball?)  Remember the games against Kentucky in the early 90s?  Or how about against Alabama and Tennessee in Nutt's early years?  When you're good, you don't need geographic rivalries, and I'd like to think we'll be that good again.  The Big 12 would be fine when we suck, just to give us more reason to cheer, but wouldn't you hate to be tearing through OU, OSU, Mizzou, and Kansas State in hoops, and have the rest of the country wondering if we can beat Kentucky or Florida?  Plus, on the gridiron, the big rivalry now is UT and OU, we're done.  It's fun for non-conference games, but Ark-TX wont be like it was on a yearly basis, that rivarly has become Texas-OU.  We should stay in the SEC, you win in that conference, you get immediate National respect, regardless of the sport!

[Big Papa Satan]

Almost every stadium in the B12 (north and south) are within 8 hours of Fayetteville...furthest in Colorado... we would only play away every four years.  We could recruit TX, MO, OK, LA and the entire midwest better in the Big 12.  We do not recruit FL (a big recruit hotbed) well anyway.  Or any of the other SEC states for that matter.

Again, Fayetteville and NWA is not the only region that matters.  Some inflicted with the arrogance typical of that area may think that the program does not need the rest of the state, but a move to that inferior conference will come at the cost of East and South Arkansas.

Places like Baton Rouge, Tuscaloosa, Oxford, Starkville, are all relatively accessable to LA and East Ark.  Let me put it this way: From where I am in NEA, it's only twenty miles farther to Tuscaloosa than it is to Fayetteville.  The fans over here matter, too.  Driving to places such as Lawrence, Ames, Boulder, Lubbock, even Austin for that matter, simply are not feasible compared to what we have now.

Think there's holes in the fence now?  Leave the SEC, and the few recruits we lose every year will be multiplied.  Not to mention, the support from areas besides NWA and Central Arkansas will diminish.

Also, leaving the SEC will be tantamount to cutting and running like a dog with its tail tucked between its legs.  I don't really with to see the program branded as such.

[Big Papa Satan]

#1: recruiting #2 winning #3 recruiting even better #4 winning even more #5  recruiting top 10 class #6 winning conference titles #7 recruiting top 5 class #8 playing for a NC.

1. Like Nutt really has a recruiting plan?

Problem #3 (relative to your argument)  Seriously, (and I mean this is a serious question) how many "big-time" program supporters live in east and south arkansas relative to NWA and Central Arkansas

I was thinking more in terms of recruits in the former areas.  I think the Warren situation would repeat itself several times if we left the SEC.

Problem #4:  Pride comes before the fall.  We fell.

We haven't hit rock bottom, either.

Another thing: I don't remember much of the SWC days, but I heard about different screwjobs by Texas refs.  Does anyone think that we'd get a fair shake in officiating in that conference?  SEC officiating towards Arkansas is sometimes bad, but I believe it's a lot better than what it'd be if Arkansas was in the Big 12.

[dirthog]

this is ludacris, Im sorry but i guess it will always be split the people that grew up in arkansas thinking it is a southern state (row crop Farmers) want the SEC, the people that grew up thinking that arkansas is a southwestern state (Ranchers and Chicken folk) want the big 12. I personally I dont think this will ever change, each has their own arguments and both sides feel like they have a connection with the states that have the same socio-economic background. I know the smites will come, but I think this may be part of the differences in opinion.

[Porky OLeary]

Almost every stadium in the B12 (north and south) are within 8 hours of Fayetteville...furthest in Colorado... we would only play away every four years.  We could recruit TX, MO, OK, LA and the entire midwest better in the Big 12.  We do not recruit FL (a big recruit hotbed) well anyway.  Or any of the other SEC states for that matter.

Again, Fayetteville and NWA is not the only region that matters.  Some inflicted with the arrogance typical of that area may think that the program does not need the rest of the state, but a move to that inferior conference will come at the cost of East and South Arkansas.

Problem #2: Anyone living in this state outside of NWA always take this stuff so personally, like this decision is made based on what is in the best interest of the fans in Lake Village...the decision to move to the B12 is about #1: recruiting #2 winning #3 recruiting even better #4 winning even more #5  recruiting top 10 class #6 winning conference titles #7 recruiting top 5 class #8 playing for a NC.

Mom's got a good point. If we want to contend for a NC in football, it's all about recruiting. And since nutty hasn't the brains to recruit louisiana, our football fortunes are directly tied to texas recruiting.
We are currently trying to recruit texas with 7th or 8th place finishes in the sec. Texas parents are seldom if ever going to see their kids play in the sec. Wouldn't we be able to recruit texas much, MUCH better after 3rd place finishes in the b12, where texas parents could see their kids play every other weekend?
I like the sec fine, but a move to the b12 would make us a better football team.

[othermac]

at this particular time, a move to the big12 would be like saying we cant cut it in the sec so we are going to try and find some smaller guys to play with so that we may do better.

[RazorCaddy]

I know some of you think this is a  great idea and all but ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. You Texas and Okie people will just have to travel east to see us play.