can you name one single in-state player....

[TheHogFan]

hamsam,

Bret Smith, Rashawn Fellows, James Turner, Slick Shelley, DeAngelo Williams, Bartley Webb (who no one ever mentions) Greg Jones, Damian Williams, Mitch Mustain, Kodi Burns, Lee Ziemba, Broderick Green, Stephan Loucks, What more do you want?

I played with Danny Nutt at UCA, he is a good friend of mine, HOWEVER, He, and his brother need to be escorted off the property!

He and I will discuss my position later.

None of those players you mentioned have done anything in college. We simply do not know yet with any of those.

Except for the part where Deangleo Williams is the all time leading rusher...

My bad, missed that one.

[TheHogFan]

Charles Stackhouse--West Memphis product who played for Ole Miss and went on to play for the Giants in the NFL for a bit.

Cedric Houston--I know you said not to mention him, but he was all-sec caliber at Tennessee and has stuck with an NFL squad.

Bret Smith--I know you said not to mention him, but he was all-SEC caliber as well. 

Herb Grigsby--Mayflower boy who went Iowa. Had a productive season last year. 

Greg Jones--Jonesboro boy who went to Tennessee, and turned into an all-SEC d-lineman before giving up football after the death of a family member.

Karl Alice (sp)--offensive lineman from LR Catholic who played for Colorado.

Bartley Webb--springdale--now playing for Notre Dame

Ryan Mallett--Texarkana, formerly of Lincoln--singed with Michigan. I don't care if he's thinking of transferring, we didn't get him in the recruitting process.

Courtney Andrews--Camden--Brother to Shawn, and was drafted into the NFL

Brandin Davis--Camden--played for the basketball hogs.  Was highly recruited by Butch Davis while at University of Miami, then signed with Davis's Cleveland Browns as a free agen when Basketball career ended, and played two or three years in NFL Europe.

Kevin Payne--Junction City--Played for Louisiana-Monroe and earned four letter. 

Brett Helms--Stuttgart--starting center for LSU 

Matt Stoltz--Pulaski Academy--is now a Razorback, but originally signed with LSU, and only transferred to UA because his dad developed cancer.

These are all I can think of during the Nutt era off the top of my head.  Most of these were either very hight recruited (four or five star) or had the possibility to play professionally.  I'll take any additions to the list. 

I also think a better list to make would be high touted, in-stat players, who had a solid freshman season then regressed because of the Nuttster.  I can think of almost double who would fit into that category.   

If this is the list, then I think our coaching staff has done a remarkable  job keeping the quality talent in state.

[razrken]

Mitch Mustain and Damian Williams

[heathman]

from what I see, there is only D. Williams so far that was a "loss" during the nutt era. he played at Memphis so I am not sure that he would qualify as great, but I'll give him to ya. (cause he was REALLY, really good IMO. NFL will tell the total tale)
I want Nutt gone just as bad as the next guy (well, maybe not that bad, but bad enough) but I would have to say he has done a good job evaluating in-state talent so far!

Once Nutt could no longer blame Matt Jones for HDN's pitiful passing game---in-state players became leary of playing for the Nuttjob.

Fact is, MM, DW, and B.Cleveland were leaving until Nutt hired Gus to save his butt. And the top lineman from S'dale left & stayed gone. That's 4 top players from the '06 class right there. They all have All-Conference potential, and a couple or 3 have NFL potential.

Now, from the '07 class, you have perhaps the top 3 players running away from Nutt. Green, Burns, Ziemba all have All-Conference potential.

That 7 in the last 2 years that TIME will tell what we've lost.

Let them all go if they don't want to be here.  What makes you think Green, Burns, and Ziemba will do anything.  You don't know that they will.  You are reaching to try and make your point.  Are you a recruiting expert that I do not know about.  If your that good at fortune telling we should go to vegas for a week or to.

[Richard_white]

from what I see, there is only D. Williams so far that was a "loss" during the nutt era. he played at Memphis so I am not sure that he would qualify as great, but I'll give him to ya. (cause he was REALLY, really good IMO. NFL will tell the total tale)
I want Nutt gone just as bad as the next guy (well, maybe not that bad, but bad enough) but I would have to say he has done a good job evaluating in-state talent so far!

Once Nutt could no longer blame Matt Jones for HDN's pitiful passing game---in-state players became leary of playing for the Nuttjob.

Fact is, MM, DW, and B.Cleveland were leaving until Nutt hired Gus to save his butt. And the top lineman from S'dale left & stayed gone. That's 4 top players from the '06 class right there. They all have All-Conference potential, and a couple or 3 have NFL potential.

Now, from the '07 class, you have perhaps the top 3 players running away from Nutt. Green, Burns, Ziemba all have All-Conference potential.

That 7 in the last 2 years that TIME will tell what we've lost.

Let them all go if they don't want to be here.  What makes you think Green, Burns, and Ziemba will do anything.  You don't know that they will.  You are reaching to try and make your point.  Are you a recruiting expert that I do not know about.  If your that good at fortune telling we should go to vegas for a week or to.

Hooten recruits as good as our rankings.  He also recruits as good as our potential ranking.  Can you guess what those numbers are?

[hamsam]

You are making my point for me. I KNOW the "good" players that we missed out on. NONE, save D. Williams, were GREAT players. I said GREAT players. Why is that so hard to get? We have had teams full of good players. Do you think B. Helms is better than our All-everything center Jon Luigs who is  a junior to be? Nope. Roshaun Fellows did not hardly sniff the field the last year or two. Has SLick even played a down yet? Herb Grigsby......not great but I would love to have had him.
Any way, I see your point and do believe it is a good one, but it is not what I was asking for. 

Apparently you don't get it.  Its not just that we missed on the good players.  Its that those players in addition to what we have could be something....forgive me, but "special."  Any of those receivers opposite Monk would greatly open up our offense (should we choose to pass the ball...which is not likely).  Someone to take the pressure of Monk would greatly help.  Agreed about the linemen.  If there is one thing that we have done well, its RB and linemen.  However, I don't care if Fellows didn't play last year.  We need everything we can get in the secondary.  The point is we cannot miss on these guys.  Its absolutely critical for us to get these kids in Razorback uniforms. 

Dude, I get it. You are gonna just keep on writing the same tired dribble no matter how many times I tell you....that is NOT the question I asked!!!!
Are you friggin' serious about another receiver to take the pressure off of Monk?! Tell me you didn't just say that! WHAT PASSING GAME? Have you even seen a Hog game in the last 8 years or so?
Oh, my bad....you must have meant like what happened in our passing game last year when Damien Williams and London Crawford opened up all of those routes for Monk. You knew that was a bogus statement when you wrote it. I can tell that by the comment in parenthesis.
If a player turns out to be a scrub at Tennessee, it should be assumed that they would be a scrub here as well. And Fellows turned out to be a scrub!
I agree that we do need every good player from instate but it does not happen like that ANYWHERE! If players across the country never left their home state, we would get killed every year in the SEC. Some kids will leave no matter what....that sucks but that's just how it is!

[stchane]

Dude, I get it. You are gonna just keep on writing the same tired dribble no matter how many times I tell you....that is NOT the question I asked!!!!
Are you friggin' serious about another receiver to take the pressure off of Monk?! Tell me you didn't just say that! WHAT PASSING GAME? Have you even seen a Hog game in the last 8 years or so?
Oh, my bad....you must have meant like what happened in our passing game last year when Damien Williams and London Crawford opened up all of those routes for Monk. You knew that was a bogus statement when you wrote it. I can tell that by the comment in parenthesis.
If a player turns out to be a scrub at Tennessee, it should be assumed that they would be a scrub here as well. And Fellows turned out to be a scrub!
I agree that we do need every good player from instate but it does not happen like that ANYWHERE! If players across the country never left their home state, we would get killed every year in the SEC. Some kids will leave no matter what....that sucks but that's just how it is!

If you wanna really see how much Damian Williams and London Crawford opened up the offense, why don't you look and see? 

Monk - 50 Receptions on the season
DW   - 19
LC    -  5

Are you really gonna tell me that those numbers justify the argument your making???  How many times was Monk double teamed last year alone?? On most every play right??  Hell MM was told to throw it to Monk and nobody else?  How can you explain that?

We didn't have another reliable receiver on the whole team.  Blame that on who you will, but that cannot be disputed....sorry.  Our play calling might have been balanced, but that doesn't necessarily equate to a balanced offense because of incompletions and the type of routes being run.  After CD became quarterback, defenses adjusted to the fact that he couldn't throw the ball deep, and started playing closer and closer to the line of scrimmage, which hurt both our running and passing game.  We need many more vertical routes in our passing game, and as long as HDN is here, I don't see us consistently throwing it deep.  (Consistently being 4-5 times a game). 

I agree with you that in-state players go outta state to play every year, no matter what state it is.  However, Arkansas is in one of the most unique positions in collegiate sports.  Its the only D-1 school in a major conference that is in the state.  That puts a premium on the in-state talent since we can't really compete with the Texas', Florida's, and California's of the world.  Those states have several schools in major conferences, and produce alotta talent every year.  No one school could sign all the in-state talent in any one of those states.  However, you could do that in Arkansas.  Thats the difference. 

Tennessee is a really good example of how to recruit outta state kids.  That state doesn't produce a ton of talent either, but somehow, Fulmer understands that he has to get the top instate kids, and make up the difference outta state.  He has done a really good job of that in his tenure.  He's the longest tenured coach in the SEC (HDN is 2nd).   How many conference titles and NC does he have??  There is a reason for that.  He puts the effort into recruiting.  I hate Tennessee with a passion, but I respect the success they've had.  Until recently, they've had a pretty balanced offense too.

[hamsam]

From what I can gather, you are not one of the HOG fans that is all torn up about us losing D. Williams. Since you say we had "not one reliable receiver" on the team, he was no loss.
However, I will concede that point and say you were right. No one was reliable except Monk. Bret Smith would have helped in that regard.......If we had a coach that allowed the ball to be thrown more.
I guess you are saying that losing a really good player can and does hinder the development of other players that could be GREAT. If that is your point, I agree. (even though that is still not the question I asked) 

[stchane]

From what I can gather, you are not one of the HOG fans that is all torn up about us losing D. Williams. Since you say we had "not one reliable receiver" on the team, he was no loss.
However, I will concede that point and say you were right. No one was reliable except Monk. Bret Smith would have helped in that regard.......If we had a coach that allowed the ball to be thrown more.
I guess you are saying that losing a really good player can and does hinder the development of other players that could be GREAT. If that is your point, I agree. (even though that is still not the question I asked) 

I think losing DW hurts, but its not like he exactly tore it up either.  Thats not to say I wanted him to leave because I didn't.  I woulda liked for him to be returning kicks.  He dropped alotta passes, which is one thing that REALLY bothers because that is the receivers primary job.  I think he coulda have developed into a great receiver though. 

I was ok with Damian leaving.  What I was not ok with was MM and Gus leaving.  Those were two critical peices to the future of Arkansas Football.  That upset me more than anything. 

This is my point actually:  "losing a really good player can and does hinder the development of other players that could be GREAT."

This is exactly the point.  And if you think about it, how many "good" players have gone elsewhere that were totally "gettable" in the last few years?

The "what coulda beens" just makes me mad thinking about it.

[hamsam]

I agree. Those two (MM and Gus) leaving still have me mad as well. I have said before I want Nutt gone. So I am not trying to hug Nutt with this thread. But I just do not think he has done a terrible (hasn't been stellar either) job evaluating talent.

[bruisemeister]

Eric Warfield. Went to Nebraska. Now in NFL.

[hamsam]

Eric Warfield. Went to Nebraska. Now in NFL.

where was he from?

[stchane]

I agree. Those two (MM and Gus) leaving still have me mad as well. I have said before I want Nutt gone. So I am not trying to hug Nutt with this thread. But I just do not think he has done a terrible (hasn't been stellar either) job evaluating talent.

I would disagree with you about him doing a terrible job.  Any coach worth his salt in recruiting can tell who the great ones will be.  The next level is evaluating the contributors.  This is where HDN begins to falter.  If you look back at his past recruiting classes, only 10-12 continue on to be contributors to the team at one point or another.  Some may have even 15 outta the class contribute.  Now every program is going to lose players to one thing or another, but they don't lose over half their recruiting classes.  The top programs know how to get the most of out their classes.  They may lose around 5 per class, but not 10 or over.  When we're only getting 50% production from our classes, it really really hurts; and puts us at a huge disadvantage compared to some other schools. 

[oldfart]

why do you focus on GREAT???  we have had numerous players leave Arkansas and play at major colleges across the nation.  Since our problem has always been lack of depth, the loss of even one potential starter is devastating to our program.  And we have had numerous ones leave the state in Nutts regime

[hamsam]

I focus on GREAT cause that was the question I posed in this thread! That is the only reason. gettin in a little late aren't you, oldfart?! I have already conceded that losing "good" players is not a good thing because "good" players can make other players GREAT!
But saying that "losing one potential starter is devastating to our program" is overly dramatic and basically just plain silly!
D'angelo Williams would have made little or no difference during those two pathetic seasons. There is no way to prove that but to say that our program is not currently devastated! (but it may not be far away!)