We're at it

[steveaustin69]

This is Mike's ceiling. Can't defend the three or rebound; good teams will punish you for those mistakes. We don't turn the ball over at a high enough rate to compensate for the high percentage looks. Bama had a multitude of unforced errors Saturday, and we still let them hang around by shooting 40% from three. Up 9 to up 5 in a two minute situation in a 20 second span due to two wide open threes. A good team will make you pay for that.

Season defensive ranks:

Overall FG%: 118
2Pt FG %: 138
3Pt FG %: 178
FTA: 328
ORB: 288
DRB: 164
Assists Conceded: 194
TO Forced: 93

[liljo]

So, judging by those stats, what are we now, 3-26?

20-9! How the heck did that happen!

There, there now, cheer up. Have some coffee and a good breakfast. Smile at somebody today.

There's lies. Damn lies. And then there's statistics.

This team definitely needs to pick it up shooting free throws, though. They missed 9 against 'Bama. But they're a lot better overall team now than they were in November. They've improved as a team. A lot of that has to do with coaching, no matter what HogVillagers may say.

Ice cold orange juice tastes great under sunny skies! 

[HogFaninMemphis]

This is Mike's ceiling. Can't defend the three or rebound; good teams will punish you for those mistakes. We don't turn the ball over at a high enough rate to compensate for the high percentage looks. Bama had a multitude of unforced errors Saturday, and we still let them hang around by shooting 40% from three. Up 9 to up 5 in a two minute situation in a 20 second span due to two wide open threes. A good team will make you pay for that.

Season defensive ranks:

Overall FG%: 118
2Pt FG %: 138
3Pt FG %: 178
FTA: 328
ORB: 288
DRB: 164
Assists Conceded: 194
TO Forced: 93

I don't know if this is our ceiling, but yes our defense needs to be better.

Season offensive ranks:
Overall FG%: 36
2Pt FG %: 101
3Pt FG %: 19
FTA: 61
ORB: 161
DRB: 210
Assists: 104
TO: 31

Essentially, we have a below-average team defense with an above-average offense. There are like 5 teams in the country that are really good at both.

[SemperHawg]

This is Mike's ceiling. Can't defend the three or rebound; good teams will punish you for those mistakes. We don't turn the ball over at a high enough rate to compensate for the high percentage looks. Bama had a multitude of unforced errors Saturday, and we still let them hang around by shooting 40% from three. Up 9 to up 5 in a two minute situation in a 20 second span due to two wide open threes. A good team will make you pay for that.

Season defensive ranks:

Overall FG%: 118
2Pt FG %: 138
3Pt FG %: 178
FTA: 328
ORB: 288
DRB: 164
Assists Conceded: 194
TO Forced: 93

Can't argue with the numbers there.  I guess I would have a couple of questions for you.

1. Who is the slam dunk hire that we go get that we KNOW will take us past Mike's ceiling?

2. With the entire landscape of CBB set to change due to this FBI thing, is it really wise to be making any kind of move right now until we know what things are going to look like?

Mike frustrates me to no end with some of his in game coaching decisions, mostly his defensive philosophy, but we are set to go to the dance 3 out of the last 4 years.  We have a good shot at having a better seed in the dance than we've had since Nolan was here.  We would look like the world's craziest fanbase to call for getting rid of him after this season.

[ShadowHawg]

Still haven't seen PROOF of the ceiling. Just your opinion.

[steveaustin69]

I don't know if this is our ceiling, but yes our defense needs to be better.

Season offensive ranks:
Overall FG%: 36
2Pt FG %: 101
3Pt FG %: 19
FTA: 61
ORB: 161
DRB: 210
Assists: 104
TO: 31

Essentially, we have a below-average team defense with an above-average offense. There are like 5 teams in the country that are really good at both.

If we played average defense we'd be a serious contender; our defensive struggles stem from poor fundamentals and scheme.

[greenEGnHAWGS]

This is Mike's ceiling. Can't defend the three or rebound; good teams will punish you for those mistakes. We don't turn the ball over at a high enough rate to compensate for the high percentage looks. Bama had a multitude of unforced errors Saturday, and we still let them hang around by shooting 40% from three. Up 9 to up 5 in a two minute situation in a 20 second span due to two wide open threes. A good team will make you pay for that.

Season defensive ranks:

Overall FG%: 118
2Pt FG %: 138
3Pt FG %: 178
FTA: 328
ORB: 288
DRB: 164
Assists Conceded: 194
TO Forced: 93

"Facts are the enemy of Truth" — Cervantes

You can manipulate and point out any set of facts you want, but MA is doing something right here. There is no such thing as a "fact of someone's ceiling"...only speculation. Interesting how you only talk about the defensive stats to back up your claim. Interesting you don't take into consideration the changes in defensive scheme over the last 6-7 games. Nice OPINION though.

[steveaustin69]

"Facts are the enemy of Truth" — Cervantes

You can manipulate and point out any set of facts you want, but MA is doing something right here. There is no such thing as a "fact of someone's ceiling"...only speculation. Interesting how you only talk about the defensive stats to back up your claim. Interesting you don't take into consideration the changes in defensive scheme over the last 6-7 games. Nice OPINION though.

If we played average defense we'd be a serious contender; our defensive struggles stem from poor fundamentals and scheme.

[PonderinHog]

Can't argue with the numbers there.  I guess I would have a couple of questions for you.

1. Who is the slam dunk hire that we go get that we KNOW will take us past Mike's ceiling?

Sean Miller

[greenEGnHAWGS]

Our defense has been substantially better down the home stretch as Mike evolved his defense into a zone. We had a loss to Kentucky where every big man could shoot, jump, and drive. That's really the only game as of late that we just looked bad on that side of the court.

[onebadrubi]

Sean Miller

Don't give him a phone. 

[steveaustin69]

Our defense has been substantially better down the home stretch as Mike evolved his defense into a zone. We had a loss to Kentucky where every big man could shoot, jump, and drive. That's really the only game as of late that we just looked bad on that side of the court.

We let them shoot 40% from 3.  Give up wide open looks down the stretch to good teams and you will get punished. We beat up on the bottom of the conference "down the home stretch." Last ten games opponent 3pt fg% would rank 149 in the country. We've averaged 14 TO forced per game for the year. Guess what we've averaged in the last ten? 14. Our defense has not been substantially better. Did you read the original post?

[BannerMountainMan]

Just coming off a great win at Alabama and this is where we are at, I'll take that game every time. Atta boy Mike!!

[sickboy]

As much as defense isn't our strength, our offense is. We could ride that to the sweet 16 before it starts to catch up with us. That wouldn't be too bad for this team.

We didn't even have a single player predicted to be first OR second team SEC and we were picked to finish 6th in the conference. I honestly think we've surpassed expectations this season. At least nationally. We could never surpass Jump Ball's expectations, of course.

[Hawg Red]

The need to pull on every shirt you can to show people that we aren't good or Mike isn't a good coach when the Hogs are coming off a big road win and have punched their ticket to the NCAA tournament is just weird. This dude is weird that started this thread. There are a bunch of poster like him, too. Just weird. It's like they have no other purpose than to convince people that Mike isn't a good coach and we aren't really a good team. How hard is it to just sit back and enjoy a win and another NCAA tournament appearance?

We get it. We give up a lot of 3s and the defense isn't great. We get it. No more reminders necessary. Still in a position to go into the SECT 22-9 with a double bye. How about you just enjoy that position?

[Atlhogfan1]

I think there are two conversations/questions and I don't think we know the answer to either yet.

Has this team hit its ceiling?  I don't believe it has.  It's capable of playing better on both ends.  The bench is capable of more offensively as we just saw.  Just need some consistency from at least 1 or 2.  The SEC is not a strong offensive conference.  It has some very offensively challenged teams in fact.  But our defense at least now isn't such a detriment it will prevent beating most teams we will play until we get to higher seeds in the NCAAT. 
SEC teams currently top 100 in off efficiency:
16. AU
32. Hogs
38. LSU 2 L's
76. Florida L
90. UK L
98. Vandy W
100. Tenn W


182 Bama

Bad:
275 SC
202 UGa


Has Mike hit his ceiling at Arkansas?  He has shown a higher ceiling at other programs.  His biggest problem at Arkansas has been roster management and getting enough players capable of playing his style especially defensively.  This is an era of players leaving and players transferring in.  I also don't trust the current generation of players have the work ethic and desire to commit to playing defense how Mike would want it played.  He's going to be here a while longer and I hope it will come together at some point with at least one group for multiple seasons. 

[steveaustin69]

The need to pull on every shirt you can to show people that we aren't good or Mike isn't a good coach when the Hogs are coming off a big road win and have punched their ticket to the NCAA tournament is just weird. This dude is weird that started this thread. There are a bunch of poster like him, too. Just weird. It's like they have no other purpose than to convince people that Mike isn't a good coach and we aren't really a good team. How hard is it to just sit back and enjoy a win and another NCAA tournament appearance?

We get it. We give up a lot of 3s and the defense isn't great. We get it. No more reminders necessary. Still in a position to go into the SECT 22-9 with a double bye. How about you just enjoy that position?

Folks like to say the Mike haters only come out after a loss; I'm pointing out even in a W my issues with Mike and his coaching were still apparent. They are a poor defensive team, largely due to coaching.

[steveaustin69]

I think there are two conversations/questions and I don't think we know the answer to either yet.

Has this team hit its ceiling?  I don't believe it has.  It's capable of playing better on both ends.  The bench is capable of more offensively as we just saw.  Just need some consistency from at least 1 or 2.  The SEC is not a strong offensive conference.  It has some very offensively challenged teams in fact.  But our defense at least now isn't such a detriment it will prevent beating most teams we will play until we get to higher seeds in the NCAAT. 
SEC teams currently top 100 in off efficiency:
16. AU
32. Hogs
38. LSU 2 L's
76. Florida L
90. UK L
98. Vandy W
100. Tenn W


182 Bama

Bad:
275 SC
202 UGa


Has Mike hit his ceiling at Arkansas?  He has shown a higher ceiling at other programs.  His biggest problem at Arkansas has been roster management and getting enough players capable of playing his style especially defensively.  This is an era of players leaving and players transferring in.  I also don't trust the current generation of players have the work ethic and desire to commit to playing defense how Mike would want it played.  He's going to be here a while longer and I hope it will come together at some point with at least one group for multiple seasons.

I hope you're right. Interesting to look at those offensive efficiency numbers; thanks for posting those. Makes our raw defensive numbers even worse.

[Tusks]

Raise Mike's salary cap and you'll see better defense.

[Hawg Red]

Folks like to say the Mike haters only come out after a loss; I'm pointing out even in a W my issues with Mike and his coaching were still apparent. They are a poor defensive team, largely due to coaching.

We get it. It makes you braver but not any less weird.

Do you enjoy watching the Hogs at all? Does a win make you happy?

[Atlhogfan1]

Folks like to say the Mike haters only come out after a loss; I'm pointing out even in a W my issues with Mike and his coaching were still apparent. They are a poor defensive team, largely due to coaching.

They were poor when being forced to do something they aren't capable/willing to do.  Mike's biggest fault, and Nolan will tell you this, is he is stubborn.  Lots of coaches are.  It took coach K over 30 years at Duke to finally start playing some zone regularly.  He was a Knight disciple and despised playing it.  But he also knows you have evolve with the game.  MA adjusted this season and found who could contribute from the bench as we knew he would get around to doing at some point. 

[incHOGnito]

This is Mike's ceiling. Can't defend the three or rebound; good teams will punish you for those mistakes. We don't turn the ball over at a high enough rate to compensate for the high percentage looks. Bama had a multitude of unforced errors Saturday, and we still let them hang around by shooting 40% from three. Up 9 to up 5 in a two minute situation in a 20 second span due to two wide open threes. A good team will make you pay for that.

Season defensive ranks:

Overall FG%: 118
2Pt FG %: 138
3Pt FG %: 178
FTA: 328
ORB: 288
DRB: 164
Assists Conceded: 194
TO Forced: 93

Did we lose a game and nobody told me? We just outrebounded two out of our last three opponents, including A&M, one of the better rebounding teams in the conference. And it was clearly the game plan to take away Sexton's driving lanes and make them beat us with the 3. And guess what? It worked. We have won what 5 of our last 6. Seems to me the ceiling has not been reached.

[FineAsSwine]

The need to pull on every shirt you can to show people that we aren't good or Mike isn't a good coach when the Hogs are coming off a big road win and have punched their ticket to the NCAA tournament is just weird. This dude is weird that started this thread. There are a bunch of poster like him, too. Just weird. It's like they have no other purpose than to convince people that Mike isn't a good coach and we aren't really a good team. How hard is it to just sit back and enjoy a win and another NCAA tournament appearance?

We get it. We give up a lot of 3s and the defense isn't great. We get it. No more reminders necessary. Still in a position to go into the SECT 22-9 with a double bye. How about you just enjoy that position?

I agree. Season's end would be a better time for this rather than every single day as we're watching how this team has pulled itself off of the floor and scrapped its way back into mix for a double bye in the SEC Tournament.

[WooPigFarm]

hey cold stone austin steve... rasslins real!

[ShadowHawg]

Folks like to say the Mike haters only come out after a loss; I'm pointing out even in a W my issues with Mike and his coaching were still apparent. They are a poor defensive team, largely due to coaching.

Interesting that you don't deny the hater tag.

[steveaustin69]

Did we lose a game and nobody told me? We just outrebounded two out of our last three opponents, including A&M, one of the better rebounding teams in the conference. And it was clearly the game plan to take away Sexton's driving lanes and make them beat us with the 3. And guess what? It worked. We have won what 5 of our last 6. Seems to me the ceiling has not been reached.

Key words: a good team will make you pay for that.

[redhogchilipepper]

🤦‍♂️ There are always things teams need to do to get better. We aren't where we need to be but the program is far better In Mike's hands. To change the subject I wanna know who you think would be better than what we have now. It has to be someone that we could hire not a dream hire.

[steveaustin69]

Interesting that you don't deny the hater tag.

I think Mike is a solid coach; as pointed out he is incredibly stubborn and I feel we under perform due to his unwillingness to change. If pointing out his defensive woes makes me a hater, then sure label me as such. I'm not going to stop until the defense gets better.

If this team is average on the defensive end we are likely vying for the regular season conference championship.

[Hawg Red]

I agree. Season's end would be a better time for this rather than every single day as we're watching how this team has pulled itself off of the floor and scrapped its way back into mix for a double bye in the SEC Tournament.

Exactly. Plenty of time to bring this up in the offseason once we have the full scope of how the season played out. It's not productive for people to come on here, especially after wins, talking about what we suck at and how we're really not that good and our ceiling is capped, etc. It's just an odd thing for a fan to do when a team has won or is winning. And I've done it before myself. Just have to put that on the backburner and get behind the team because we can still do something there and that might change some of these opinions about ceilings and such. At least give criticisms at the proper time and in an organic nature as discussions evolve. But putting out a thread about how bad we are on defense after perhaps the biggest win of the season so far is just not going to be received well. It devalues your message. You're just being weird and sabotaging yourself by doing so.

[Atlhogfan1]

Alabama doesn't win games with offense.  They win with defense and the matchups they've had over the last few games have not been conducive to winning that way.  SC and UGa two other teams who win with defense.  No coincidence we managed to go 3-0 against these teams. 

Bama is 264th in college basketball in 3pt %.  Of course you use a strategy of making them shoot from the perimeter. 

[Hawg Red]

I think Mike is a solid coach; as pointed out he is incredibly stubborn and I feel we under perform due to his unwillingness to change. If pointing out his defensive woes makes me a hater, then sure label me as such. I'm not going to stop until the defense gets better.

If this team is average on the defensive end we are likely vying for the regular season conference championship.

What does your relentlessly pointing out change? Is it going to make them defend better?

[steveaustin69]

Alabama doesn't win games with offense.  They win with defense and the matchups they've had over the last few games have not been conducive to winning that way.  SC and UGa two other teams who win with defense.  No coincidence we managed to go 3-0 against these teams. 

Bama is 264th in college basketball in 3pt %.  Of course you use a strategy of making them shoot from the perimeter.

Which they did at a higher clip than their average.

[steveaustin69]

What does your relentlessly pointing out change? Is it going to make them defend better?

Hopefully you realize Mike is not as great as you think he is.

[Hawg Red]

Hopefully you realize Mike is not as great as you think he is.

How great do you think I think he is?

I think Mike is great now?

This place....

[sowmonella]

Hopefully you realize Mike is not as great as you think he is.

What is your background in D-1 basketball?

[steveaustin69]

What is your background in D-1 basketball?

Ha. Do you have to be involved in D1 basketball to watch the team, assess they are poor defensively, and then find the statistics to support that assessment?

[sowmonella]

Ha. Do you have to be involved in D1 basketball to watch the team, assess they are poor defensively, and then find the statistics to support that assessment?

You misunderstood. You seem to know a great deal about coaching. I assumed you had some first hand knowledge.

[hogfaninmo]

This is Mike's ceiling. Can't defend the three or rebound; good teams will punish you for those mistakes. We don't turn the ball over at a high enough rate to compensate for the high percentage looks. Bama had a multitude of unforced errors Saturday, and we still let them hang around by shooting 40% from three. Up 9 to up 5 in a two minute situation in a 20 second span due to two wide open threes. A good team will make you pay for that.

Season defensive ranks:

Overall FG%: 118

We just won a road game against a team that everyone had us losing to and you post this?
2Pt FG %: 138
3Pt FG %: 178
FTA: 328
ORB: 288
DRB: 164
Assists Conceded: 194
TO Forced: 93

[hawg66]

Neither side of this argument has unbiased proof on their side. It's all about personal perspective. Two people can watch the Bama game. One will say that was an ugly win. Ugly yes but still a win. The other will say that was an ugly win. A win yes but still ugly.

Both people saw essentially the same thing and yet their perspectives are different. The problem comes when the guys with the negative perspective call themselves realists. Their view is no more real than the optimist. Likewise the optimistic guy doesn't help by calling the other a hater.

Not sure this battle will ever end. All I'd like to see is have it postponed until the season is over. Yeah, I know. That's not happening either.

[PonderinHog]

Y'all should just wait for the Annual PonderinHog Airing of the Grievances Thread.

Patience!   

[Dirty]

I want my union dues paid back to me from this forum......it sucks! 

[Atlhogfan1]

Y'all should just wait for the Annual PonderinHog Airing of the Grievances Thread.

Patience!   

One of my faves. 

[PonderinHog]

I want my union dues paid back to me from this forum......it sucks! 

This will be addressed!  Patience!   

[Atlhogfan1]

Neither side of this argument has unbiased proof on their side. It's all about personal perspective. Two people can watch the Bama game. One will say that was an ugly win. Ugly yes but still a win. The other will say that was an ugly win. A win yes but still ugly.

Both people saw essentially the same thing and yet their perspectives are different. The problem comes when the guys with the negative perspective call themselves realists. Their view is no more real than the optimist. Likewise the optimistic guy doesn't help by calling the other a hater.

Not sure this battle will ever end. All I'd like to see is have it postponed until the season is over. Yeah, I know. That's not happening either.

It could till after the season with a little moderating and if a few could control themselves from flaming. 

[joco]

No one can ask for more than a coach to perform to the best of his ability.  I hope he continues to achieve to that level for many more years.

[USChog]

Bama is one of the best defensive teams in the SEC. Arkansas is one of the best offensive teams in the SEC. Who won the game? Who is at 20 wins for the season?

People like the bring up the fact that we "beat up on the bottom of the league" Well guess what? Beating up the bottom of the league is a hell of a lot better than being beat up by them.

We have beaten several tournament teams this year: OU, TN, A&M, ALA, MIZZ

Yeah, we have lost some games, but Arkansas is headed to the NCAA tournament and until that is all said and done I don't think we can say our defensive woes have cost us.

[HF#1]

We will be good enough year in and year out that Mike will be allowed to retire from here. He won't win a natty but will make a Sweet16 or Elite8 appearance, he may snag a SEC tournament title or even a regular season title once or twice. But you should never expect elite results from Mike. His teams don't have the basketball IQ to be elite. They never will. They are athletes first, basketball players second. Pick up game AAU all stars.

With that said, the ceiling for his teams is a tad bit higher than where they are now, but not much. This could be a Sweet16 team. Could be one and done. They are too inconsistent to predict.

[hogsanity]

1. Who is the slam dunk hire that we go get that we KNOW will take us past Mike's ceiling?

There is no such thing as a slam dunk hire. But there is also no arguing that EVERY GREAT COACH was once a up and comer. Some just have the foresight or luck or divine intervention to get them before they become great.

How long do you keep a 20ish wins a year, makes the NCAAT every other year maybe 2 out of 3 years on average, and goes out on the 1st weekend type of guy?

While there is no guarantee the next guy will do better, there is no guarantee he won't either.

[greenEGnHAWGS]

There is no such thing as a slam dunk hire. But there is also no arguing that EVERY GREAT COACH was once a up and comer. Some just have the foresight or luck or divine intervention to get them before they become great.

How long do you keep a 20ish wins a year, makes the NCAAT every other year maybe 2 out of 3 years on average, and goes out on the 1st weekend type of guy?

While there is no guarantee the next guy will do better, there is no guarantee he won't either.

I'm just asking as I don't know the answer. But how many up and comer coaches pan out to be a great coach? I would think that the odds are pretty low. So, should we keep a GOOD coach or play the lottery for a GREAT coach?

[Atlhogfan1]

So, should we keep a GOOD coach or play the lottery for a GREAT coach?

The unfortunate debate.  Hopefully MA lives up to expectations set before he got to Arkansas and the debate will go away.