Interesting read regarding the last 3 head hogs recruiting

[presidenthog]

https://arkansas.247sports.com/Article/Five-years-in-Examining-Bret-Bielema-as-a-recruiter-51166403/Amp

As I've said before. Bret has been the best recruiter we have had.

Take aways. The sec recruits light years better now than during Bobby's and nutt's time here. Bret is the best recruiter but the rest of the league is far and away better.

Also arkansas is producing less and less talent.

[presidenthog]

The SEC as a whole is not recruiting 'light years better' than it has been... c'mon man.

The athletes in the south are still the athletes in the south. 

On paper an argument can be made for Arkansas recruiting better than it has in recent years. 
There was a time when we focused more on recruit re-rankings because the results on the field were often better than the results on signing day.

If you can't see how nutt(our worst recruiter) was placing 6th, and now Bret our best recruiter places 10th then I can't help you.

A&M joining hurt us immensely.

[PorkRinds]

That was a really good read with great research.

[colbs]

If you can't see how nutt(our worst recruiter) was placing 6th, and now Bret our best recruiter places 10th then I can't help you.

A&M joining hurt us immensely.

Yep A&M's class rankings have got better since joining the SEC.  Also. Ole Miss' classes got way better with Freeze(we know why).  MSU is recruiting better and so is Kentucky. 

[HognitiveDissonance]

We competed a lot with A&M back in the day, not so much with Texas in recruiting.
So yes, A&M joining the league hurt Arkansas more than anyone in the league. I've said that before. We would have an advantage because we could sell the SEC, now A&M can sell the SEC to recruits in Texas too and convince them to stay home more often.

But overall, the SEC was tough as nails 20 years ago, and it's tough now. Overall, it hasn't changed a great deal to me. The East and West have flip-flopped from 20 years ago. Saban at Alabama is a dynasty. But then again, Saban was also at LSU 15-20 years ago. Not much difference...he won a Title there too.

Don't get too carried away with how the league is that much different now.

[Hognspace]

Nutt put a lot of guys in the pros on the OL, and RB.  He was a better recruiter than we gave him credit for... 

If you can't see how nutt(our worst recruiter) was placing 6th, and now Bret our best recruiter places 10th then I can't help you.

A&M joining hurt us immensely.

[greenie]

I don't think that the league is so much different, but recruiting has certainly changed (in my mind) in the last 5 years.  The explosion of social media has elevated the exposure of the recruits to an insane level.  This has made it even harder to recruit against the big name programs because those highly recruited kids are turned into rock stars (far more than before), get the rock-star mentality, and want to make these huge announcements to some place that, they think, elevates their status.  Announcing live on TV at the UA All-Star Game that your committing to Arkansas is not nearly as sexy as to <pick your sexy program>.

All that said, and I've said this in another thread recently, CBB is a fantastic recruiter and has done a great job managing and marketing Arkansas.  He may not match the X's and O's acumen of other head coaches, but I'm not sure who could do a better job with what he has. 

[greenie]

Nutt put a lot of guys in the pros on the OL, and RB.  He was a better recruiter than we gave him credit for...

Nutt was a pretty good recruiter, no doubt.  I just don't think he ran the program nearly as well as we are seeing it run now.

[bennyl08]

Nutt was a pretty good recruiter, no doubt.  I just don't think he ran the program nearly as well as we are seeing it run now.

Nutt: Total 32 (21) picks, 14 (10) picks in the top 3 rounds, 6 (6) first round picks. This is over 10 years.
Post-Nutt: 30 picks (25), 5 (4) picks in the top 3 rounds, 0 first round picks. (Note, Mallett counts in the lost picks from the parenthesis but came here after Nutt. However, since I didn't research who was drafted under Nutt's first three years that Nutt himself recruited, I kept the methodology the same). This is over 9 years.

Total: 3.2 picks per year (3.0), 1.4 (1.43) in the top 3, and 0.6 (0.86) in the first round per year under Nutt.
         3.33 (4.2) total picks, 0.55 (0.67) in the top 3 rounds, and 0 in the first per year after Nutt.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Many many times it's has been said that there is little difference between say 15-30(more or less Arkansas range).  Therefore my diagnosis is that a coaches ability to recruit the right players for his system, and a coaches ability to get the best from those players are the most important ingredients to success.  Unless CBB can get us into the top fifteen not much will change unless he and his staff do a lot better at what they do on and off the field. 

And yes in some ways recruiting has gotten tougher.  That simply means we have to get tougher too, it can't be used as an excuse.

[bennyl08]

Many many times it's has been said that there is little difference between say 15-30(more or less Arkansas range).  Therefore my diagnosis is that a coaches ability to recruit the right players for his system, and a coaches ability to get the best from those players are the most important ingredients to success.  Unless CBB can get us into the top fifteen not much will change unless he and his staff do a lot better at what they do on and off the field. 

And yes in some ways recruiting has gotten tougher.  That simply means we have to get tougher too, it can't be used as an excuse.

There's a difference between an explanation and an excuse.

[RazorPiggie]

Yep A&M's class rankings have got better since joining the SEC.  Also. Ole Miss' classes got way better with Freeze(we know why).  MSU is recruiting better and so is Kentucky.

Vandy under Franklin was hauling in some good recruits also.

aTm was averaging about the 20th nationally ranked class while in the Big 12. Now they are around 11th since joining the SEC.

[Cinco de Hogo]

There's a difference between an explanation and an excuse.

Depends on if the explanation and excuse are the same thing.  How does different people using either change the truth?  Neither changes only people's perception. 

[Tusks]

I don't get the argument.  The hogs were recruiting TX as an SEC option, the hard part of that is not many if any SEC games being played in TX.  Now A/M is in the conference and that means SEC exposure in the state.  Kids may come to the Hogs now that wanted a little playing time in their home state.

A/M can only sign 25 guys.  So now I would think the hogs have a better chance at the top 50-100 in TX because the conference is being covered more in TX and their family can follow them easier.

Instead of a player going to TCU or OU etc, the Hogs are a more viable option because they are in the SEC and A/M doesn't have room because they've filled their 25 spots.

[Vantage 8 dude]

I don't get the argument.  The hogs were recruiting TX as an SEC option, the hard part of that is not many if any SEC games being played in TX.  Now A/M is in the conference and that means SEC exposure in the state.  Kids may come to the Hogs now that wanted a little playing time in their home state.

A/M can only sign 25 guys.  So now I would think the hogs have a better chance at the top 50-100 in TX because the conference is being covered more in TX and their family can follow them easier.

Instead of a player going to TCU or OU etc, the Hogs are a more viable option because they are in the SEC and A/M doesn't have room because they've filled their 25 spots.

While it's certainly true that everyone, including TAM, can only sign 25 yearly, the point is that it's likely that some of the better players the Aggies have signed were swayed by virtue of the school moving to the SEC. It's long been argued, I think with good cause, that given a choice between conferences an SEC-associated school will often win out when in the race for top notch talent. By virtue of TAM's move to the SEC it seems to me that the Hogs MAY have lost out on a few players that might not have signed with the Aggies otherwise. Also, as pointed out above, the fact that A and M has moved to the SECW they've also been able to ink some kids who might not have gone there otherwise. When looked at in that light I think the argument that they were admitted to the league does make better sense.

[colbs]

It's a weak spin article intended to portray Bielema as facing overwhelming odds compared to his predecessors; conveying to the reader that it's in fact sympathy we should feel for the head hog as he battles our SEC peers for players worthy to play in the conference.  I don't think it's intended to make any feel sorry for BB.  I do think sometimes people don't use perspective though-note every situation is the same.  Does that mean BB deserves a trophy or a pat on the back?  Of course not.  He will have to do something in the next two years(9 or more wins) to prove himself. 

I think it's fair and accurate article.  The overall class ranking has went up but not the SEC class ranking.  So Arkansas on paper is getting better classes. 

[bennyl08]

I think it's fair and accurate article.  The overall class ranking has went up but not the SEC class ranking.  So Arkansas on paper is getting better classes.

We are having more drafted to the NFL as well, so they aren't just better on paper.

[bennyl08]

Depends on if the explanation and excuse are the same thing.  How does different people using either change the truth?  Neither changes only people's perception.

Could you reword this? Don't follow what you are trying to say here.

[Seebs]

Line up the wives. Now judge who recruits the best.

[Cinco de Hogo]

Could you reword this? Don't follow what you are trying to say here.

Just saying it all individually perception of the same thing.  Not trying to justify what I think.

[buldozer]

No matter how it is spun by CBB, we are in the bottom of the SEC in terms of recruiting. That's just the reality of where we rank right now. And it really doesn't matter that our recruiting classes nationally rank around 30 because 9 or 10 of those 29 ahead of us reside in the SEC. So being 10th in the SEC in recruiting equals basically where we are currently in the SEC. So in order to advance in this league we have to recruit better or use a different type of system (and players) like Petrino did. If we stay in the bottom of the SEC in recruiting we will need to have a niche like that to ever ascend to the top.

In order to elevate recruiting to a higher level, more emphasis and spending on recruiting will no doubt be required. We were spending around half of what the top tier programs in the SEC spend on recruiting the last time I seen the numbers. We just have not made the commitment to be a top SEC recruiting program up to this point IMO.

[factchecker]

No matter how it is spun by CBB,

In what way is this a spin by Coach Bielema?

This isn't a tweet by Bielema or some press conference soundbyte.

This is a thread started by a fan concerning an article written by Andrew Hutchinson.  Crazy that when someone simply puts out facts it's considered a spin.

[HognitiveDissonance]

No matter how it is spun by CBB, we are in the bottom of the SEC in terms of recruiting. That's just the reality of where we rank right now. And it really doesn't matter that our recruiting classes nationally rank around 30 because 9 or 10 of those 29 ahead of us reside in the SEC. So being 10th in the SEC in recruiting equals basically where we are currently in the SEC. So in order to advance in this league we have to recruit better or use a different type of system (and players) like Petrino did. If we stay in the bottom of the SEC in recruiting we will need to have a niche like that to ever ascend to the top.

In order to elevate recruiting to a higher level, more emphasis and spending on recruiting will no doubt be required. We were spending around half of what the top tier programs in the SEC spend on recruiting the last time I seen the numbers. We just have not made the commitment to be a top SEC recruiting program up to this point IMO.

I made this same point when CBB was hired.
Petrino leveled the playing field and made up for a relative lack of talent(compared to the SEC) by using a superior offensive system.
Bielema really has no specialty. He's not an offensive genius like Petrino, and he's not a defensive mastermind like Saban, and he's not a special teams guru like Beamer. So it appeared his only path to success would be superior recruiting. And that's rough sledding in the SEC. It's possible, if he's a Calipari-like guy who can sell ice to eskimos, but he's not really that either. I do think recruiting has been a little better, overall. But it's not good enough to make a significant difference on the field yet. For Bielema to have Petrino levels of success, he would have to really turn it up several notches in recruiting from your traditional Arkansas talent level. He's dialed it up a notch or two, but needs another couple of notches.

[colbs]

In what way is this a spin by Coach Bielema?

This isn't a tweet by Bielema or some press conference soundbyte.

This is a thread started by a fan concerning an article written by Andrew Hutchinson.  Crazy that when someone simply puts out facts it's considered a spin.

I'm not sure why some get so upset about so something like this.  The article says BB is shown to be the better recruiter.  Then goes on to say pretty much it hasn't translated to the field yet.  Pretty fair article with no bias either way.  Some people just get mad if something even half way positive is said about BB.

[zebradynasty]

Bottom line is we have to do better OR face the reality that the chances of winning an SEC title with average players that are just "coached up" is not very good.

Need to get back into Texas in a BIG way! A&M I think has made it tougher but seems like we lost ground there so fast...

[Pig in the Pokey]

We'll NEVER out recruit Bama, Florida, LSU, Georgia, Auburn, or Texas gaggies. The rest are beatable, and Tennessee almost made my 'unbeatables' list, so , that puts us as a ceiling of 7th-8th in the SEC. And that's good enough if that 7th place is also , say, 15th in the country. We could sign classes in the teens in certain seasons where we have 25+ slots. And that's high enough to push for a playoff birth if you stack 3-4 of those together. Getting buy-in and development , along with retention, could make for a championship run. It'll never give us year-in year-out domination, but we could win a ring every 5-10 years with a little luck and a solid foundation. Hopefully that is what we have now. This team has some similarities to the 98 bunch.

[hawgfan4life]

We don't have to win the recruiting rankings to win.  We have to develop our players and keep them as long as possible.  We need good kickers, solid QB play, and just don't beat ourselves.  All of those are doable regardless of recruiting rankings.  Do that and every once in a while, we will be in the hunt at the end of the season.  Same formula K State used with Snyder.  Win 8 or 9 almost every year, sneak in 10 a few years, and be in the mix those years.  We can do that right now with the level of recruiting we are seeing and fix the defense and FG kicking.