20th anniversary...

[who knows]

Was very very disappointed...what the heck is WWE thinking...what a wasted opportunity with WrestleMania just around the corner...was expecting something like 1000th episode...if not more or better

[Buff]

You didn't like the Miz and Flair woo-ing back and forth? 

[who knows]

Really?

[Eddie Goodson]

Lizard Lick Towing starts back up next week so you won't have to watch any more wrestling.


I am so tired of internet wrestling "fans" doing nothing but griping about wrestling. If you hate it so much, change the stinking channel.

[who knows]

Thanks...I think...

[Richard_white]

The problem with people comparing wrestling today to the days of yesterday, is many cant adapt.  Now adapting doesn't mean for the good or worse.

Today's wrestling is hurt by the internets.  There is no surprise or wow factors in wrestling.  Plus having a PG label on your product doesn't help either.  The story lines and the wrestling itself has taking a big dip.

It is what it is. 

[Eddie Goodson]

The problem with people comparing wrestling today to the days of yesterday, is many cant adapt.  Now adapting doesn't mean for the good or worse.

Today's wrestling is hurt by the internets.  There is no surprise or wow factors in wrestling.  Plus having a PG label on your product doesn't help either.  The story lines and the wrestling itself has taking a big dip.

It is what it is. 

True.

Taz joining Aces and Eights last night was one of the first 'I never saw that coming' moments in a long time for me.

[BigSexyHog]

True.

Taz joining Aces and Eights last night was one of the first 'I never saw that coming' moments in a long time for me.

I couldn't believe that either.

[myriad_rocker]

Wrestling is definitely different these days.  I've been reading wrestler's books lately, which has kind of gotten me back into it (until about 6 months ago, I hadn't watched wrestling at all since WCW was sold to WWE...yeah, it's been that long).  I read Eric Bishoff's book, Stone Cold's book, then Roddy Piper's, and now I'm on the downward slide of Bret Hart's.  I've also been watching some of the Netflix stuff on wrestling as well as a few old Royal Rumbles on wwe.com.

After all of this, I can truly say that the QUALITY of the actual wrestling has gone down hill.  Mic skills seemed to have slightly waned a little as well.  There are some bright spots, though.  Particularly with a few guys when on the mic.  CM Punk, in my opinion, is very good on the mic.  Dolph Ziggler is also somewhat decent on the mic.  The Miz tries to be...and maybe it's just because I can't get into him, but I don't think he's as good as he thinks he is.

As far as TNA...well, I just can't get into their product at all.  I've tried.  WWE is putting out a better product right now, IMO.  The whole Aces & Eights thing is kind of ridiculous to me.  I just can't suspend my disbelief with TNA...on any level.  Not saying that I can with WWE, but there are moments or flashes of it there, at least.

I was disappointed with the 20th Anniversary episode as well.  With them being in Houston, I thought that MAYBE (JUST MAYBE), Stone Cold would make a cameo.  Just a cameo.  I never really got to see him when he was at the height of his popularity during the Attitude era.  That's because I was totally enamored with WCW.

Anyway, just my opinion.

[Eddie Goodson]

Wrestling is definitely different these days.  I've been reading wrestler's books lately, which has kind of gotten me back into it (until about 6 months ago, I hadn't watched wrestling at all since WCW was sold to WWE...yeah, it's been that long).  I read Eric Bishoff's book, Stone Cold's book, then Roddy Piper's, and now I'm on the downward slide of Bret Hart's.  I've also been watching some of the Netflix stuff on wrestling as well as a few old Royal Rumbles on wwe.com.

After all of this, I can truly say that the QUALITY of the actual wrestling has gone down hill.  Mic skills seemed to have slightly waned a little as well.  There are some bright spots, though.  Particularly with a few guys when on the mic.  CM Punk, in my opinion, is very good on the mic.  Dolph Ziggler is also somewhat decent on the mic.  The Miz tries to be...and maybe it's just because I can't get into him, but I don't think he's as good as he thinks he is.

As far as TNA...well, I just can't get into their product at all.  I've tried.  WWE is putting out a better product right now, IMO.  The whole Aces & Eights thing is kind of ridiculous to me.  I just can't suspend my disbelief with TNA...on any level.  Not saying that I can with WWE, but there are moments or flashes of it there, at least.

I was disappointed with the 20th Anniversary episode as well.  With them being in Houston, I thought that MAYBE (JUST MAYBE), Stone Cold would make a cameo.  Just a cameo.  I never really got to see him when he was at the height of his popularity during the Attitude era.  That's because I was totally enamored with WCW.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Austin was in the plans but he had a scheduling conflict and would not come.

[who knows]

Wrestling is definitely different these days.  I've been reading wrestler's books lately, which has kind of gotten me back into it (until about 6 months ago, I hadn't watched wrestling at all since WCW was sold to WWE...yeah, it's been that long).  I read Eric Bishoff's book, Stone Cold's book, then Roddy Piper's, and now I'm on the downward slide of Bret Hart's.  I've also been watching some of the Netflix stuff on wrestling as well as a few old Royal Rumbles on wwe.com.

After all of this, I can truly say that the QUALITY of the actual wrestling has gone down hill.  Mic skills seemed to have slightly waned a little as well.  There are some bright spots, though.  Particularly with a few guys when on the mic.  CM Punk, in my opinion, is very good on the mic.  Dolph Ziggler is also somewhat decent on the mic.  The Miz tries to be...and maybe it's just because I can't get into him, but I don't think he's as good as he thinks he is.

As far as TNA...well, I just can't get into their product at all.  I've tried.  WWE is putting out a better product right now, IMO.  The whole Aces & Eights thing is kind of ridiculous to me.  I just can't suspend my disbelief with TNA...on any level.  Not saying that I can with WWE, but there are moments or flashes of it there, at least.

I was disappointed with the 20th Anniversary episode as well.  With them being in Houston, I thought that MAYBE (JUST MAYBE), Stone Cold would make a cameo.  Just a cameo.  I never really got to see him when he was at the height of his popularity during the Attitude era.  That's because I was totally enamored with WCW.

Anyway, just my opinion.

Exactly...I understand wrestling will never be the same as it was for me in the attitude era...I just thought they would have brought back some of the old timers for the show like the 1000th episode...i woulda thought the 20th anniversary would be bigger than 1000th episode...I was just really excited and was bummer about it...really think they wasted a opportunity here...not only because of WrestleMania coming up but to also maybe keep some of the older viewers inclined to keep watching...I almost get the feeling they didn't realize til a couple weeks ago that it was their 20th anniversary...

[jbcarol]

The issue with comparing anything in the past to its state today is we tend to remember the outstanding moments of the past (spectacularly brilliant and dreadfully awful) and tend to filter out the mediocre stuff until it's brought back by a YouTube or article.

How many moments in tonight's Raw episode will be talked about in 2033 if anyone is talking about this in 2033?  How many moments in a single Raw episode selected at random in the way back would be water conversation today?

Individuals change as well and as the Cowboys fan noted, you know more today than you did back then. The first time you were shocked by something in '97 won't hold the same shock value in '13 though it might for a first-timer.

Still, it's a matter of individual taste, and you like what you like.

If you are more specific on what you like and dislike today v. yesteryear, it helps promote the discussion.

[myriad_rocker]

Okay...I'll be more specific.  I don't think there are any decent workers in the WWE currently.  No one's ability excites me.  No one is original (as hard as it is to be original these days, anyway).  Show me someone that can work a match like Bret Hart.  Show me someone with mic skills like Piper.  Show me someone with charisma like Ric Flair.  Show me a storyline/angle that can compete with the original nWo and the Sting drama.

On a side note...now that I've mentioned Sting...he was my all time favorite wrestler as a kid all the way through his entry into the WolfPac.  Now...he's nearly a former shell of himself.  Our minds, like you say, have a tendancy to remember the outstanding.  I think his mic skills, while not horrible, are borderline embarassing.  I know it's hard to say that something isn't horrible if it's embarassing...stay with me here.  I'm not so much talking about his delivery...it's okay (not horrible).  But the content is borderline embarassing.  Anyway, I'm going on a rant here.  I suppose he'll always be my favorite, but I'm just disappointed that he hasn't really reinvented himself in a new and fresh way.

[Eddie Goodson]

Ziggler is as good in the ring as anyone in a long time. He has had several PPV quality matches with Randy Orton and several others on Raw the last two years. His match with Miz tonight was pretty good.

I am a huge Daniel Bryan fan. Team Hell-No angle has been awesome. He and Kane have been outstanding. The anger management stuff is all time classic stuff.

Punk is top notch on the mic and in the ring.

You can hate Cena all you want but he is second only to Hogan as a star that transcends the sport.


People who constantly look back and romanticize how good it used to tend over look a lot of the crap that went on then too as JBCarol has said.

[who knows]

Randy Orton and Ziggler are the best in the ring...I really liked punks heel turn til they threw heyman in with him...sheamus has actually grown on me quite a bit...I think Orton needs to turn heel again...he is much better as a heel...

[hvsupastar]

You can hate Cena all you want but he is second only to Hogan as a star that transcends the sport.

A. The rock, and Steve Austin, Ric Flair all transcended wrestling more than Cena because

B. Cena has transcended wresting in years except the work he did with rock. What made Cena transcend was the hood rat gimmick, after Cena went full blown rated G the only thing of Cena that is still relevant in pop culture is 'you can't see me,

[hvsupastar]

And as far as current state of wwe goes. Team hell no vignettes have been awesome. The tag team division is as good as it has been in years. Rhode scholars are great, I like PTP, particularly Titus Oneil.

Zigglers work in the ring reminds of early raw with Shawn michaels or Owen hart, its amazing. Good matches with whoever he is in the ring with. Sheamus, Orton, Del Rio, all have had good matches.

Cm Punk has been owning the rock on the mic. Punk is great.

My gripes are as follows:

The Rock has turned into a john Cena with edgier language. Adolescent joke after adolescent joke. Last year it showed rock n Cena really didn't care for each other. With punk, rock tells jokes while punk has great mic work.

Wrestle mania plans are not good to me. I've read the plans are Rock vs Cena 2, HHH vs Lesnar. Doesn't do it for me, already seen them both. Would rather Punk go over at mania, he deserves to remain champ.

Oh and Cena Sucks

[Eddie Goodson]

A. The rock, and Steve Austin, Ric Flair all transcended wrestling more than Cena because

B. Cena has transcended wresting in years except the work he did with rock. What made Cena transcend was the hood rat gimmick, after Cena went full blown rated G the only thing of Cena that is still relevant in pop culture is 'you can't see me,

#1 all time product line is Cena gear. Not even a close second other than Hogan. Ask any kid14 or under and they know John Cena.

[hvsupastar]

#1 all time product line is Cena gear. Not even a close second other than Hogan. Ask any kid14 or under and they know John Cena.

That's all within the realm of wrestling though it's not transcending it. And the only reason Cena sells the most t shirts is he has a new one every tour. So every time wwe visits a city their is a tshirt the kids don't have yet. Had that been done with Hogan, Austin, or nWo then Cena wouldn't be all time leader. Which is closer than you say it is, but I know this time 2 years ago Steve Austin was said to be leader in merchandise sales per Vince

[hvsupastar]

#1 all time product line is Cena gear.

According to Dave Meltzer is stone cold and it's not close. Said Austin has more than one 10 million dollar years and had one of 13 million. I've read where Cena averages around 5 million per year on other message boards