Coach Bielema's thoughts on player discipline

[scruf]

From an article about titled, "Dangerous player behavior a problem for college football, not just Baylor," by Matt Haynes of Sporting News:

I spent some time with Arkansas coach Bret Bielema earlier this month, and he spoke at length about coaches who blatantly refuse to discipline players and/or give players with a history of violent behavior second chances.

"It's the culture that has been created," Bielema said. "It's more important for some coaches to win than anything else. It's not about helping players grow as men and leaders of families away from football — above all else — it's about winning."

How many coaches are like that, I asked.

"A majority," Bielema said. "A strong majority."

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2015-08-21/baylor-art-briles-domestic-violence-rape-sexual-assault-college-football-arrests-suspensions-jail?modid=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FBsykIMxfon&utm_source=desktop&utm_medium=desktop&utm_campaign=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FBsykIMxfon

[Pulled(PP)pork]

not to defend that growing practice, but with rising salaries of these coaches, that's the landscape.

who to blame?


PP

[factchecker]

not to defent that growing practice, but with rising salaries of these coaches, that's the landscape.

who to blame?


PP

This quote from the article will answer your question:

You want to blame someone? Blame university presidents. Ultimately, these are the men and women who continue to allow coaches to freely dole out second chances. They have the power, more than anyone else, to embrace zero tolerance when it comes to violent player behavior — on men or women.

The player can not be a part of the team without being admitted.  It is up to admissions to go beyond due diligence to ensure that the athlete in question fits not only academically but socially into the university.

[scruf]

not to defend that growing practice, but with rising salaries of these coaches, that's the landscape.

who to blame?


PP

Exactly! Accountability is so old-fashioned.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

This quote from the article will answer your question:

The player can not be a part of the team without being admitted.  It is up to admissions to go beyond due diligence to ensure that the athlete in question fits not only academically but socially into the university.

Ok, that takes care of the bad seeds before coming to college, what about those after they get there?  I'm sure Gus/Bobby/Et al., know the pressure that administration places on them about winning....especially for $5 million/yr.  So, in return, these notorious coaches ask the administration to turn away and trust their decisions to accept that questionable transfer, or let the "Players vote" about a troublesome teammate returning to the team.


PP

[RazorRed26]

From an article about titled, "Dangerous player behavior a problem for college football, not just Baylor," by Matt Haynes of Sporting News:

I spent some time with Arkansas coach Bret Bielema earlier this month, and he spoke at length about coaches who blatantly refuse to discipline players and/or give players with a history of violent behavior second chances.

"It's the culture that has been created," Bielema said. "It's more important for some coaches to win than anything else. It's not about helping players grow as men and leaders of families away from football — above all else — it's about winning."

How many coaches are like that, I asked.

"A majority," Bielema said. "A strong majority."

http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/story/2015-08-21/baylor-art-briles-domestic-violence-rape-sexual-assault-college-football-arrests-suspensions-jail?modid=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FBsykIMxfon&utm_source=desktop&utm_medium=desktop&utm_campaign=http%3A%2F%2Ft.co%2FBsykIMxfon

FSU comes to mind.

[bennyl08]

The more money that gets pumped into the system, the more it becomes a business and less a school thing. It doesn't pay to follow the rules. Look at all the cheating that goes on. You cheat, win big, make a lot of money, get caught, slap on the wrist, net positive. The only question one has to face when it comes to stuff like this, from a business perspective, how much do stand to lose monetarily from the the media backlash and PR loss and possibly lawsuits vs what do you stand to gain from that player helping you win on the field? Long term, people have short memories and will quickly forget about the situation when the wins come in, especially if you can find an unimportant scapegoat. The other long term would be recruiting resulting from the scandal.

So, from a business perspective, is the player/coach important enough that you will make more money from him playing than you stand to lose, and do you have a scapegoat outlet to make people forget about it? If no to either of those questions, you punish the person and show the world how good you are and full of integrity. Otherwise, you buy the accuser off, play it off like a false accusation and profit.

Of course, from a human perspective, you should look at from a right/wrong perspective. Did player or coach do something wrong? Then they get a punishment that fits their crime.

[scruf]

Another question: How does the recent news at Baylor affect the recruitment of a highly-rated DE who is squarely on the Hogs radar?

[RazorRed26]

The more money that gets pumped into the system, the more it becomes a business and less a school thing. It doesn't pay to follow the rules. Look at all the cheating that goes on. You cheat, win big, make a lot of money, get caught, slap on the wrist, net positive. The only question one has to face when it comes to stuff like this, from a business perspective, how much do stand to lose monetarily from the the media backlash and PR loss and possibly lawsuits vs what do you stand to gain from that player helping you win on the field? Long term, people have short memories and will quickly forget about the situation when the wins come in, especially if you can find an unimportant scapegoat. The other long term would be recruiting resulting from the scandal.

So, from a business perspective, is the player/coach important enough that you will make more money from him playing than you stand to lose, and do you have a scapegoat outlet to make people forget about it? If no to either of those questions, you punish the person and show the world how good you are and full of integrity. Otherwise, you buy the accuser off, play it off like a false accusation and profit.

Of course, from a human perspective, you should look at from a right/wrong perspective. Did player or coach do something wrong? Then they get a punishment that fits their crime.

Well said!

[Hogarusa]

Its everyone, there isnt just one group to blame.  Fanbases are just as awful.  They excuse any and all actions of their star players. 

[LJHOG]

who to blame?


PP

ESPN and the $$$

[Pulled(PP)pork]

ESPN and the $$$

it's a business, can't blame them for cashing in on it. 


PP

[Pigsknuckles]

Its everyone, there isnt just one group to blame.  Fanbases are just as awful.  They excuse any and all actions of their star players. 

True. If the fans would cease to tolerate bad behavior, I really believe we would see the shirt rolling "uphill".

[ALLVOL]

not to defend that growing practice, but with rising salaries of these coaches, that's the landscape.

who to blame?


PP

You're exactly correct. We as fans have a lot of blame to shoulder for this culture. Non of us pay growing prices for season tickets to watch a football coach create good men. We pay to watch them create winning football programs first and foremost. Now, I do agree that a coach can do both but that is what is so hard and why so few succeed in that endeavor.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

You're exactly correct. We as fans have a lot of blame to shoulder for this culture. Non of us pay growing prices for season tickets to watch a football coach create good men. We pay to watch them create winning football programs first and foremost. Now, I do agree that a coach can do both but that is what is so hard and why so few succeed in that endeavor.

Nobody likes a good coach, everybody loves a great coach


PP

[Jek Tono Porkins]

I find it odd that the youngest coach in the SEC is the most old-school when it comes to player discipline. I guess it's all about your coaching pedigree, though. When the only coaches you've worked for are Hayden Fry, Kirk Ferentz, Bill Snyder, and Barry Alvarez, all of whom run tight ships and have enjoyed success, you're gonna run a tight ship.

[Choctaw Hog]

not to defend that growing practice, but with rising salaries of these coaches, that's the landscape.

who to blame?


PP

Who is to blame?  The coaches and administrators who have no moral compass.  It isn't an either / or equation.

[ALLVOL]

Nobody likes a good coach, everybody loves a great coach


PP

What defines great? Most would point to the best coaches strictly by win loss record. When you win fans overlook a lot of discipline issues. When you lose they use that as well as your record as to why you need to be canned.

[ALLVOL]

Who is to blame?  The coaches and administrators who have no moral compass.  It isn't an either / or equation.

I think you have to add us as fans to that as well. If fans don't support a coach who runs a "loose" ship then you will see them not be hired. But as fans if they win we come in droves to support him.

[rude1]

Would you rather be squeaky clean in your recruiting approach with players and churn out 8-4,7-5, 6-6 type seasons, or take some chances on players and contend or win Conference/National Championships? The bottom line here is winning, nobody is going to give CBB a pass ultimately if he isn't winning but his kids are good kids who aren't getting into trouble.

[Pulled(PP)pork]

Who is to blame?  The coaches and administrators who have no moral compass.  It isn't an either / or equation.

so, the fanbase/boosters have no say in it?  You are kidding yourself you don't think so


PP

[Pulled(PP)pork]

What defines great? Most would point to the best coaches strictly by win loss record. When you win fans overlook a lot of discipline issues. When you lose they use that as well as your record as to why you need to be canned.

multiple championships (conference or national), great recruiter (top tiered talent year in and year out).  Agreed, see Gene Cheezit as Example A


PP

[factchecker]

Would you rather be squeaky clean in your recruiting approach with players and churn out 8-4,7-5, 6-6 type seasons, or take some chances on players and contend or win Conference/National Championships? The bottom line here is winning, nobody is going to give CBB a pass ultimately if he isn't winning but his kids are good kids who aren't getting into trouble.

I would hope that those two attributes are not mutually exclusive. I would love to send my daughter to the University of Arkansas in the future.  I hope that the university doesn't place her safety second to football success.

In regards to discipline, every team, even the Razorbacks are going to have players mess up.  It's not about being "squeaky clean" but rather handling the discipline properly and in a timely manner.  It also means not harboring perpetrators of domestic violence on your campus risking the female population of your student body.  Also, not allowing a rape victim to be bullied out of a scholarship.

[Choctaw Hog]

I think you have to add us as fans to that as well. If fans don't support a coach who runs a "loose" ship then you will see them not be hired. But as fans if they win we come in droves to support him.

That's true.  It's always interesting an quite frankly, disgusting,  to see fans defend and overlook a coach or player (one that can help the team) that has allowed or participated in dishonest and immoral activities and  I submit Baylor as the most recent example. 

[Choctaw Hog]

Would you rather be squeaky clean in your recruiting approach with players and churn out 8-4,7-5, 6-6 type seasons, or take some chances on players and contend or win Conference/National Championships? The bottom line here is winning, nobody is going to give CBB a pass ultimately if he isn't winning but his kids are good kids who aren't getting into trouble.

It isn't an either/or proposition and my degree from the University of Arkansas is worth more to me than any number of wins.  But, as I stated earlier I absolutely believe it isn't and either/or proposition. 

This discussion makes me wonder if the parents of the Baylor girl that was raped by the player who was kicked off Boise State's team supported Briles' decision to bring him to Waco even though Peterson clearly warned him about that player.   I wonder if they support Briles' lies and cover-up because he's won a few games at Baylor.  Would the support of Briles be the same if he was sub .500? 

I have no doubt that some people would sell their soul, their child's soul, and their future so "their" team can win a few extra games and it's sickening.  But, I suppose these losers have to live vicariously through others, regardless of cost, so they can thump their chest and proclaim, see what we did, look at us!  What they don't realize is that they did nothing except watch others have success.   

[Pig in the Pokey]

FSU comes to mind.

so does Auburn and Ole Piss and LSU...

[rude1]

It isn't an either/or proposition and my degree from the University of Arkansas is worth more to me than any number of wins.  But, as I stated earlier I absolutely believe it isn't and either/or proposition. 

This discussion makes me wonder if the parents of the Baylor girl that was raped by the player who was kicked off Boise State's team supported Briles' decision to bring him to Waco even though Peterson clearly warned him about that player.   I wonder if they support Briles' lies and cover-up because he's won a few games at Baylor.  Would the support of Briles be the same if he was sub .500? 

I have no doubt that some people would sell their soul, their child's soul, and their future so "their" team can win a few extra games and it's sickening.  But, I suppose these losers have to live vicariously through others, regardless of cost, so they can thump their chest and proclaim, see what we did, look at us!  What they don't realize is that they did nothing except watch others have success.   

I will agree they are mutually exclusive when I see even perceived squeaky clean programs winning the NC. The football coach is the highest paid on campus for one reason, he is expected to win and win big. Failure to do so gets him fired. You can graduate every one of your student athletes, have everyone on the honor role, not have any of them so much as j-walk, if you don't win you get fired. Until fans start packing the stadium for teams that aren't winning but are running a clean program, coaches will continue to gamble on players and it will continue to lead to bad results with some.

[Choctaw Hog]

so does Auburn and Ole Piss and LSU...

Agree and Oklahoma past and present. 

[factchecker]

I will agree they are mutually exclusive when I see even perceived squeaky clean programs winning the NC. The football coach is the highest paid on campus for one reason, he is expected to win and win big. Failure to do so gets him fired. You can graduate every one of your student athletes, have everyone on the honor role, not have any of them so much as j-walk, if you don't win you get fired. Until fans start packing the stadium for teams that aren't winning but are running a clean program, coaches will continue to gamble on players and it will continue to lead to bad results with some.

I agree.  Stanford has had some highly successful seasons with high quality athletes who represent the university well on and off the field.  However, they still have not reached that ultimate level of "Bama Success", winning a NC year after year.  I hope the Razorbacks can fill that void of respectable role models who win on and off the field.  A team who wins the national championship in football and in character.  GO HOGS!!!!

[Pulled(PP)pork]

I agree.  Stanford has had some highly successful seasons with high quality athletes who represent the university well on and off the field.  However, they still have not reached that ultimate level of "Bama Success", winning a NC year after year.  I hope the Razorbacks can fill that void of respectable role models who win on and off the field.  A team who wins the national championship in football and in character.  GO HOGS!!!!

still hard to believe that Richard Sherman went to stanford, just doesn't seem to compute


PP

[bennyl08]

still hard to believe that Richard Sherman went to stanford, just doesn't seem to compute


PP

If you listen to him rather than listen to what other people say about him, he is a very smart guy. Honestly, I have a tougher time believing that Luck went to Stanford and actually has a degree in architecture. I mean sure, it is obvious he is a smart and talented individual, but ignore the actual words he says and just look at his face and listen to his voice. He looks and sounds like somebody who would give Peyton Hillis a run for his money in the IQ department.

[OneTuskOverTheLine™]

Exactly! Accountability is so old-fashioned.

Loved this post more than most..! +1 fo sho, wait an hour then + 1 mo..!

[rude1]

I agree.  Stanford has had some highly successful seasons with high quality athletes who represent the university well on and off the field.  However, they still have not reached that ultimate level of "Bama Success", winning a NC year after year.  I hope the Razorbacks can fill that void of respectable role models who win on and off the field.  A team who wins the national championship in football and in character.  GO HOGS!!!!

This^^^. Would love to be that program that breaks through and break that trend. If we were, I would have no doubts that CBB didn't take any shortcuts with players or discipline to get there.

[jesterzzn]

Feed the monster.

[Inhogswetrust]

Would you rather be squeaky clean in your recruiting approach with players and churn out 8-4,7-5, 6-6 type seasons, or take some chances on players and contend or win Conference/National Championships? The bottom line here is winning, nobody is going to give CBB a pass ultimately if he isn't winning but his kids are good kids who aren't getting into trouble.

We shouldn't assume that only players that are more prone to get into trouble are the only ones that can contend or win championships. That being said ALL teams have some players that are more likely to cause trouble than others. All coaches take some degree of chances in recruiting some more so than others and some of those that do don't always win or rarely win championships.

[jvanhorn]

Agree and Oklahoma past and present. 

I don't recall any issues with Bob Stoops and discipline.  I do recall him once kicking his starting quarterback off the team just before the season started once in less than 12 hours after he found out about the problem.   I do recall being puzzled about why he would want to get all tangled up with Doral-Green whatever his name is, LOL.   Now Switzer for sure ran kind of a loose ship, LOL, but I just don't see any facts to point out that Stoops is that kind of coach.

[jvanhorn]

I don't recall any issues with Bob Stoops and discipline.  I do recall him once kicking his starting quarterback off the team just before the season started once in less than 12 hours after he found out about the problem.   I do recall being puzzled about why he would want to get all tangled up with Doral-Green whatever his name is, LOL.   Now Switzer for sure ran kind of a loose ship, LOL, but I just don't see any facts to point out that Stoops is that kind of coach.

I didn't mean to imply that he never had any problems I just meant that it seems to me he handled them when they came up in a orderly and reasonable way.

[sickboy]

It's an ecosystem. If you have sharks in the water... then you can expect the sharks to be sharks. Sure, you can get rid of the sharks, but then you're going to upset the ecosystem. That's the nature of things.

[Grizzlyfan]

This quote from the article will answer your question:

The player can not be a part of the team without being admitted.  It is up to admissions to go beyond due diligence to ensure that the athlete in question fits not only academically but socially into the university.

Good Lord.  The player can't be part of the team if the coach doesn't ask them to be.

[buffaload]

I find it odd that the youngest coach in the SEC is the most old-school when it comes to player discipline. I guess it's all about your coaching pedigree, though. When the only coaches you've worked for are Hayden Fry, Kirk Ferentz, Bill Snyder, and Barry Alvarez, all of whom run tight ships and have enjoyed success, you're gonna run a tight ship.

Well said.  It's pretty obvious to most of us.