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Author Topic: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...  (Read 6982 times)

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Gonzo

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #350 on: September 13, 2017, 05:04:39 pm »

This Saturday they are taking the entire team out on the field to take a test with desks scattered every 5 yards to avoid cheating.... But there is a good chance every kid will make an A?  How many fans would show up to watch that?


Well, it IS a bye week, just sayin'


Go Hogs!
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wachhog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #351 on: September 13, 2017, 05:26:33 pm »

I've come to the conclusion that he is not a good fit here. Every time he fixes something, 5 more things seem to go wrong. I'm convinced that he doesn't have the ability to put it all together in order to make a run at a conference championship.
He calls himself a CEO-type coach. CEOs are only as good as their top lieutenants. Look at BB's lieutenants. NONE has the resume. NONE, except maybe Lunney, has the connections in the most fertile recruiting areas. Some would be interns at  other programs.
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wachhog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #352 on: September 13, 2017, 05:33:30 pm »

Danica Patrick makes more in endorsements than anyone.  And that's what counts.
It is what counts to Danica Patrick. And she drives for an owner with more powerful horses who can and do win races. Danica is the token, the show horse. Sponsors likehaving a show horse because they are all about advertising. BB is not pretty or unique. And Arkansas doesn't have a stable of championship-calibre  sports teams.to prop up football.
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ricepig

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #353 on: September 13, 2017, 06:10:01 pm »

Is Delta...dropping Latin bombs on us???

I figured he hit the wrong keys as usual.....
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wachhog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #354 on: September 13, 2017, 06:19:05 pm »

What if find hilarious is how many of you that  do not like Long are the very same ones that screamed for the good ole boy network to end. IT did, they brought in outsiders, and you can't stand that either.
Did the GOB network end? They have a new front man, but it still feels  the same. Makes me think the GOB  is hiding behind the curtain, still pulling the puppet's strings.
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ricepig

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #355 on: September 13, 2017, 06:21:49 pm »

Did the GOB network end? They have a new front man, but it still feels  the same. Makes me think the GOB  is hiding behind the curtain, still pulling the puppet's strings.

Yes, it's ended. It ended when Long was hired.
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tusked

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #356 on: September 13, 2017, 06:27:16 pm »


Another loser argument for the losers.

Danica Patrick was fired.
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hehawg

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #357 on: September 13, 2017, 07:02:01 pm »

Hogville says, "Jeff Long say we aren't trying to win."
Uninformed poster - Fire Jeff Long! I can't believe he said that! You can win if you don't cheat. It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. He said it had to be one or the other.

  Not sure you have to be "uninformed" to see what has transpired in 5 years? This team leader has steered the program in a downhill slide that doesn't show any signs of improving. Please remove the rose colored glasses.
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Ex-Trumpet

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #358 on: September 13, 2017, 07:12:24 pm »

It is what counts to Danica Patrick. And she drives for an owner with more powerful horses who can and do win races. Danica is the token, the show horse. Sponsors likehaving a show horse because they are all about advertising. BB is not pretty or unique. And Arkansas doesn't have a stable of championship-calibre  sports teams.to prop up football.

Maybe Hogs could endorse Danica Patrick.  She'd look good making left turns in a cardinal car with a sloberin' hog on it!
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PorkSoda

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #359 on: September 13, 2017, 07:27:24 pm »

Maybe Hogs could endorse Danica Patrick.  She'd look good making left turns in a cardinal car with a sloberin' hog on it!
That would be bad ass. 

but they would need to re open the Memphis-Arkansas Speedway
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Pork Twain

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #360 on: September 14, 2017, 02:42:03 am »

This is exactly what he said.  He tweeted it again last night.


I guess if you are willing to omit most of what he said, you would be correct.  Just ignore all of the bolded info and you are good

Arkansas AD Jeff Long to Fans: We're Not a 'Win-At-All-Cost' Football Program

Since 2011, Arkansas hasn't won more than eight games in a season and has more campaigns with four or fewer wins than ones with eight or more. And they haven't won an SEC title -- ever.

That's not exactly winning, though Razorbacks' athletics director Jeff Long said winning isn't the only goal.

Following their offensively challenged home loss to TCU in Week 1, Arkansas is now 1-1 on the season and 26-27 under fifth-year head coach Bret Bielema, who's struggled to get over the hump since arriving from Wisconsin in 2013. Bielema has finished above .500 in the SEC once and has finished fifth or worse in the West three of his four seasons.

“Yes, winning is important,” Long told fans at the Little Rock Touchdown Club this week. “Now contrast that if you’re a win-at-all-cost program which we’re not and I’ve said many, many times we’re not, then you don’t worry about the academics, you don’t worry about the conduct, you just win.

“And you know what? When I arrived here 10 years ago, that’s not what the leaders wanted at the time and certainly that’s certainly not what we’ve delivered."

Long did not name -- or even hint at -- any programs he believed were employing a winning-at-all-costs strategy, though it's assumed divisional foe Ole Miss was dancing in his mind. Hugh Freeze, who arrived in Oxford one year before Bielema, owned a 39-25 record in five seasons, along with one 10-win campaign and two more with eight or more wins. He also had two wins over Alabama, who has outscored Bielema and Arkansas by 85 points in four meetings. Then he was ousted amidst a messy NCAA investigation and allegations of personal indiscretions.

“Yes, we want to win," Long added. "Yes, it’s a priority. Yes, it eats us up from the inside that we don’t win more.”

Arkansas has a bye in Week 3 before hosting Texas A&M on Sept. 23.

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JaketheSnake

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #361 on: September 14, 2017, 06:52:15 am »

I guess if you are willing to omit most of what he said, you would be correct.  Just ignore all of the bolded info and you are good

Arkansas AD Jeff Long to Fans: We're Not a 'Win-At-All-Cost' Football Program

Since 2011, Arkansas hasn't won more than eight games in a season and has more campaigns with four or fewer wins than ones with eight or more. And they haven't won an SEC title -- ever.

That's not exactly winning, though Razorbacks' athletics director Jeff Long said winning isn't the only goal.

Following their offensively challenged home loss to TCU in Week 1, Arkansas is now 1-1 on the season and 26-27 under fifth-year head coach Bret Bielema, who's struggled to get over the hump since arriving from Wisconsin in 2013. Bielema has finished above .500 in the SEC once and has finished fifth or worse in the West three of his four seasons.

“Yes, winning is important,” Long told fans at the Little Rock Touchdown Club this week. “Now contrast that if you’re a win-at-all-cost program which we’re not and I’ve said many, many times we’re not, then you don’t worry about the academics, you don’t worry about the conduct, you just win.

“And you know what? When I arrived here 10 years ago, that’s not what the leaders wanted at the time and certainly that’s certainly not what we’ve delivered."

Long did not name -- or even hint at -- any programs he believed were employing a winning-at-all-costs strategy, though it's assumed divisional foe Ole Miss was dancing in his mind. Hugh Freeze, who arrived in Oxford one year before Bielema, owned a 39-25 record in five seasons, along with one 10-win campaign and two more with eight or more wins. He also had two wins over Alabama, who has outscored Bielema and Arkansas by 85 points in four meetings. Then he was ousted amidst a messy NCAA investigation and allegations of personal indiscretions.

“Yes, we want to win," Long added. "Yes, it’s a priority. Yes, it eats us up from the inside that we don’t win more.”

Arkansas has a bye in Week 3 before hosting Texas A&M on Sept. 23.


But that really gets in the way of the hate festivus some are trying to have.  They didn't give up when Jeff along bombed Pearl Harbor, and they ain't gonna give up now!
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GuvHog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #362 on: September 14, 2017, 08:41:03 am »

Post it or you don't have crap.  Anyone can say they have stuff...  but no one wants to "meet" the possible hogville rapist and chance getting probed. 

I have the original copy of the Declaration of Independence.  Nick Cage is coming over to show me how to read the hidden map.  Anyone want in?

That's pretty low Jake. You're afraid that he has something that will discredit Jeff Long and make him look bad so you resort to a personal attack in an attempt to discredit the poster. Not good. That "Hogville rapist" comment was way out of line.
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PorkRinds

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #363 on: September 14, 2017, 08:42:48 am »

That's pretty low Jake. You're afraid that he has something that will discredit Jeff Long and make him look bad so you resort to a personal attack in an attempt to discredit the poster. Not good.

That wasn't a personal attack.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #364 on: September 14, 2017, 10:03:24 am »

That's pretty low Jake. You're afraid that he has something that will discredit Jeff Long and make him look bad so you resort to a personal attack in an attempt to discredit the poster. Not good. That "Hogville rapist" comment was way out of line.
I'd like to throw out some personal attacks in response to you, mostly involving intelligence.

There is no possible way that poster thought I was actually calling him a rapist.

I was calling him out to either put up or shut up.  Come here claiming you have all these sources to show people, but only if they will come to him.  It's either a load of bull or something he should keep to himself.

Youre better than this Guv. Nvmd
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Kevin

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #365 on: September 14, 2017, 10:15:38 am »

I think long threw that hurt line in there, to soften his win at all cost line
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GuvHog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #366 on: September 14, 2017, 10:18:55 am »

I'd like to throw out some personal attacks in response to you, mostly involving intelligence.

There is no possible way that poster thought I was actually calling him a rapist.

I was calling him out to either put up or shut up.  Come here claiming you have all these sources to show people, but only if they will come to him.  It's either a load of bull or something he should keep to himself.

Youre better than this Guv. Nvmd

Whether you were calling him a Hogville rapist or not, the use of that term was still degrading, out of line, and unnecessary.

If you don't believe him, accept his challenge, let him buy your lunch, then look at the evidence he has. If he has as much evidence as he says he has, it would take him hours and endless posts to put all of it on Hogville so he's not willing to waste the time and space it would take to do that. I can see his point and it makes sense.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #367 on: September 14, 2017, 10:31:34 am »

Whether you were calling him a Hogville rapist or not, the use of that term was still degrading, out of line, and unnecessary.

If you don't believe him, accept his challenge, let him buy your lunch, then look at the evidence he has. If he has as much evidence as he says he has, it would take him hours and endless posts to put all of it on Hogville so he's not willing to waste the time and space it would take to do that. I can see his point and it makes sense.
If only you held BP to the same standards that you hold me.  Or if you allowed Jeff Long to be the "integrity" authority you seem to be for hogville. 

You called someone an "embarrassment" and told someone else to kiss Jeff Long's "backside."  That is highly offense to me and I think you owe those posters an apology.

No sane person is going to hit up an anonymous poster to have lunch to see some possible documents.  Again, if he has them then post them.  If he is as proud of them as he boasted, it would be worth the time to insert a couple of them. 

I know you jumped in to defend bc he says he has some anti-JLong paperwork.  Keep fighting that good fight Guv! 
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GuvHog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #368 on: September 14, 2017, 11:03:44 am »

If only you held BP to the same standards that you hold me.  Or if you allowed Jeff Long to be the "integrity" authority you seem to be for hogville. 

You called someone an "embarrassment" and told someone else to kiss Jeff Long's "backside."  That is highly offense to me and I think you owe those posters an apology.

No sane person is going to hit up an anonymous poster to have lunch to see some possible documents.  Again, if he has them then post them.  If he is as proud of them as he boasted, it would be worth the time to insert a couple of them. 

I know you jumped in to defend bc he says he has some anti-JLong paperwork.  Keep fighting that good fight Guv! 

I do hold BP up to the same standards. I've always said that what he did was wrong and he should have been punished for it. I just don't believe his transgressions merited termination.

Lets be clear here:

When Long hired CBB, I gave him high marks for it because I believed CBB was a very good hire.

After the 2014 season, I stated that I wouldn't trade CBB for CBP because I felt that progress was being made and he had things headed in the right direction.

After the collapses at the end of last year, I started to have some serious doubts about CBB.

However when CBB made the defensive staff changes and switched to the 3-4 defense, I began to believe that maybe he could actually things around.

After the debacle last Saturday I'm leaning toward changing my mind about what I said in 2014 about not trading CBB for CBP.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 11:16:24 am by GuvHog »
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311Hog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #369 on: September 14, 2017, 11:07:45 am »

I do hold BP up to the same standards. I've always said that what he did was wrong and he should have been punished for it. I just don't believe his transgressions merited termination.

and you would be wrong. Not the first time, and a surprise to no one.
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hogcard1964

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #370 on: September 14, 2017, 11:09:41 am »

I do hold BP up to the same standards. I've always said that what he did was wrong and he should have been punished for it. I just don't believe his transgressions merited termination.

+1000

Correct, and if Long had a do over with the chance to marginalize it and keep Petrino, he would.  As would anyone.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #371 on: September 14, 2017, 11:24:15 am »

I do hold BP up to the same standards. I've always said that what he did was wrong and he should have been punished for it. I just don't believe his transgressions merited termination.

Lets be clear here:

When Long hired CBB, I gave him high marks for it because I believed CBB was a very good hire.

After the 2014 season, I stated that I wouldn't trade CBB for CBP because I felt that progress was being made and he had things headed in the right direction.

After the collapses at the end of last year, I started to have some serious doubts about CBB.

However when CBB made the defensive staff changes and switched to the 3-4 defense, I began to believe that maybe he could actually things around.

After the debacle last Saturday I'm leaning toward changing my mind about what I said in 2014 about not trading CBB for CBP.


Ok
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JaketheSnake

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #372 on: September 14, 2017, 11:24:37 am »

+1000

Correct, and if Long had a do over with the chance to marginalize it and keep Petrino, he would.  As would anyone.
Dont speak for everyone.
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311Hog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #373 on: September 14, 2017, 11:26:29 am »

I do hold BP up to the same standards. I've always said that what he did was wrong and he should have been punished for it. I just don't believe his transgressions merited termination.

Lets be clear here:

When Long hired CBB, I gave him high marks for it because I believed CBB was a very good hire.

After the 2014 season, I stated that I wouldn't trade CBB for CBP because I felt that progress was being made and he had things headed in the right direction.

After the collapses at the end of last year, I started to have some serious doubts about CBB.

However when CBB made the defensive staff changes and switched to the 3-4 defense, I began to believe that maybe he could actually things around.

After the debacle last Saturday I'm leaning toward changing my mind about what I said in 2014 about not trading CBB for CBP.



CBP was canned for nothing to do with football.

If CBB is canned it will be totally for things related to football.

I prefer the 2nd to the 1st.  Losing football games is normal it is part of the game.  Banging side piece new employee is a bad look that don't rub off.
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GuvHog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #374 on: September 14, 2017, 11:45:16 am »

CBP was canned for nothing to do with football.

If CBB is canned it will be totally for things related to football.

I prefer the 2nd to the 1st.  Losing football games is normal it is part of the game.  Banging side piece new employee is a bad look that don't rub off.

I prefer the second one myself because the first one shouldn't have happened. Bobby's transgressions merited punishment but did not merit termination. Long was wrong, pure and simple.
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JaketheSnake

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #375 on: September 14, 2017, 11:46:50 am »

I prefer the second one myself because the first shouldn't have happened. Bobby's transgressions merited punishment but did not merit termination. Long was wrong, pure and simple.
So the end game here is you still believe Long did not give CBP the chance to stay?  Theres an entire thread on that on the first page or two of MMQB.
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311Hog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #376 on: September 14, 2017, 11:47:58 am »

I prefer the second one myself because the first shouldn't have happened. Bobby's transgressions merited punishment but did not merit termination. Long was wrong, pure and simple.

I can tell you if i had a mistress and i got her a job working for me and i did not disclose the conflict of interest i would expect to get fired.

You are acting like what he did was no big deal, like he parked his car in the chancellor's space.  No man Long was not wrong.  Could have not fired him? sure he "could" have and farts could smell like cinnamon. 
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GuvHog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #377 on: September 14, 2017, 11:49:27 am »

So the end game here is you still believe Long did not give CBP the chance to stay?  Theres an entire thread on that on the first page or two of MMQB.

Termination should never have been an option.
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311Hog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #378 on: September 14, 2017, 11:52:25 am »

Termination should never have been an option.


by that rational, honesty, morals, the golden rule, fidelity all that shouldn't be an option either right?

So i should just hack you right now and publish all your personal information because why should anyone be held to any sort of standard of public decency right? i mean if this doesn't ring your bell nothing will.
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GuvHog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #379 on: September 14, 2017, 11:59:13 am »

I can tell you if i had a mistress and i got her a job working for me and i did not disclose the conflict of interest i would expect to get fired.

You are acting like what he did was no big deal, like he parked his car in the chancellor's space.  No man Long was not wrong.  Could have not fired him? sure he "could" have and farts could smell like cinnamon. 

Like I said, What Bobby did was wrong and he should have been punished but his actions did not merit termination. Long was wrong, pure and simple. I made the mistake of wearing blinders when it came to Houston Nutt and refused to believe the truth about him until almost the very end. I won't make that mistake with Jeff Long.
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PorkRinds

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #380 on: September 14, 2017, 12:05:22 pm »

Like I said, What Bobby did was wrong and he should have been punished but his actions did not merit termination. Long was wrong, pure and simple. I made the mistake of wearing blinders when it came to Houston Nutt and refused to believe the truth about him until almost the very end. I won't make that mistake with Jeff Long.

You repeating it a hundred times a day still doesn't make you any less wrong. 
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HawgLife

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #381 on: September 14, 2017, 12:09:36 pm »

However when CBB made the defensive staff changes and switched to the 3-4 defense, I began to believe that maybe he could actually things around.

And after 1 game against an experienced and talented team, you have decided he can't turn it around?
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Wildhog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #382 on: September 14, 2017, 12:21:23 pm »

I thought D looked MUCH improved, even against TCU.  Especially the secondary.

Whoever the new coach is, I hope they run a 3-4, as well.  It's just much more suited to our personnel.
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GuvHog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #383 on: September 14, 2017, 12:27:53 pm »

And after 1 game against an experienced and talented team, you have decided he can't turn it around?

It was a game the Hogs should have won. They Left 14 points on the field and the defense only gave up 2 TDs late in the game because they were exhausted from being left on the field all day due to an inept offense and on the last TD, a kick return fumble put them in a bad spot. the final score should have been 21-14 Hogs.
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PorkRinds

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #384 on: September 14, 2017, 12:28:03 pm »

I thought D looked MUCH improved, even against TCU.  Especially the secondary.

Whoever the new coach is, I hope they run a 3-4, as well.  It's just much more suited to our personnel.

Agreed. Easier to get athletes for the secondary than it is to find elite big uglies.
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PorkRinds

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #385 on: September 14, 2017, 12:28:55 pm »

It was a game the Hogs should have won. They Left 14 points on the field and the defense only gave up 2 TDs late in the game because they were exhausted from being left on the field all day due to an inept offense and on the last TD, a kick return fumble put them in a bad spot. the final score should have been 21-14 Hogs.

You kind of forgot about the times TCU should have scored also. Should have been 35-21 TCU if we are playing that game.
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hogsanity

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #386 on: September 14, 2017, 12:30:28 pm »

It was a game the Hogs should have won. They Left 14 points on the field and the defense only gave up 2 TDs late in the game because they were exhausted from being left on the field all day due to an inept offense and on the last TD, a kick return fumble put them in a bad spot. the final score should have been 21-14 Hogs.

Yea cause TCU didn't turn it over on the Hogs 4 because the center hit his own leg with the snap or anything like that. All the points left on the field were by the Hogs.
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ricepig

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #387 on: September 14, 2017, 12:31:03 pm »

I thought D looked MUCH improved, even against TCU.  Especially the secondary.

Whoever the new coach is, I hope they run a 3-4, as well.  It's just much more suited to our personnel.

Don't try to interject some actual football talk in a Guv'd thread, sheesh.....
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HawgLife

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #388 on: September 14, 2017, 12:31:44 pm »

I agree WildHog. It was by no means perfect, but it was certainly an improvement. Leading up to the game I kept reading about their veteran-laden offense that was incredibly fast and maybe the best WR corp in the nation. I would've never guessed, based on that information, that we would have held them to 14 halfway through the 4th quarter. Especially not after losing Pulley and replacing him with a true freshman. There were certainly flaws, but maybe it will continue to improve.   
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PorkRinds

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #389 on: September 14, 2017, 12:33:26 pm »

I agree WildHog. It was by no means perfect, but it was certainly an improvement. Leading up to the game I kept reading about their veteran-laden offense that was incredibly fast and maybe the best WR corp in the nation. I would've never guessed, based on that information, that we would have held them to 14 halfway through the 4th quarter. Especially not after losing Pulley and replacing him with a true freshman. There were certainly flaws, but maybe it will continue to improve.

Where did you read that we had the best WR corp in the nation?
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ricepig

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #390 on: September 14, 2017, 12:34:08 pm »

Where did you read that we had the best WR corp in the nation?

He said "they".
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GuvHog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #391 on: September 14, 2017, 12:35:17 pm »

You kind of forgot about the times TCU should have scored also. Should have been 35-21 TCU if we are playing that game.

No it shouldn't have. The defense played well. Rhoads knew that Kenny Hill was poor at throwing the deep ball and had little success at it so he set the defense to stop the short passing game forcing Hill to go long and it worked. Had it not been for the inept offense, the Hogs would have won.
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PorkRinds

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #392 on: September 14, 2017, 12:35:26 pm »

He said "they".

Oooooh them. I see now.  ;)
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PorkRinds

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #393 on: September 14, 2017, 12:35:57 pm »

No it shouldn't have. The defense played well. Rhoads knew that Kenny Hill was poor at throwing the deep ball and had little success at it so he set the defense to stop the short passing game forcing Hill to go long and it worked. Had it not been for the inept offense, the Hogs would have won.

TCU left as many points on the field as we did.
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hogsanity

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #394 on: September 14, 2017, 12:37:19 pm »

TCU left as many points on the field as we did.

Not in guv land, where apprently many here now live.
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GuvHog

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #395 on: September 14, 2017, 12:41:23 pm »

TCU left as many points on the field as we did.

As a result of the Arkansas defensive game plan. The defense kept Hill in the pocket and shut down his short passing game. That forced him to do something he's poor at and that was going long.

Arkansas on the other hand, left 14 points on the field because of pure offensive ineptness, not because of anything TCU's defense did.
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PorkRinds

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Re: Jeff Long admits to not even trying...
« Reply #396 on: September 14, 2017, 12:49:02 pm »

As a result of the Arkansas defensive game plan. The defense kept Hill in the pocket and shut down his short passing game. That forced him to do something he's poor at and that was going long.

Arkansas on the other hand, left 14 points on the field because of pure offensive ineptness, not because of anything TCU's defense did.

Uh...they were at the goal line and fumbled when the center hit his own foot. Stop pretending.
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