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  • #101 by HoopS on 06 Sep 2017
  • You also have to account for the improved defense in the Hannah's replacement. You kose some leadership from Watkins. Smarts. You'll gain a more natural scorer likely. I think losing Cook would equal a net loss. He may not be an AA but he's a senior with SEC experience. I always cringe when I see people wish players like that away. If he has proven to be someone coach believes should be dismissed, then i back it. Short of that, I look forward to him contributing.
  • #102 by FineAsSwine on 06 Sep 2017
  • You also have to account for the improved defense in the Hannah's replacement. You kose some leadership from Watkins. Smarts. You'll gain a more natural scorer likely. I think losing Cook would equal a net loss. He may not be an AA but he's a senior with SEC experience. I always cringe when I see people wish players like that away. If he has proven to be someone coach believes should be dismissed, then i back it. Short of that, I look forward to him contributing.

    My thoughts as well
  • #103 by Brake on 06 Sep 2017
  • Someone to replace Kingsley's non-stat sheet defense is key IMO. There were many missed shots or non attempts cause of his presence in the paint and who will replace him for battling on rebounds? I don't see that player on the roster so unless someone emerges the guards will have to be that much better to compensate for this.

    Have you not watched gafford play?
  • #104 by rzrbackramsfan on 06 Sep 2017
  • Yeah, the possibility of no Arlando Cook is what makes that prediction too optimistic.

    You'll see!  However, if I'm going to hedge my bet with what I said about Arlando, I have to give a hedged number: 28 wins. 
  • #105 by RebHog on 07 Sep 2017

  • Have you not watched gafford play?

    Not really just some highlights. I hope as a freshman he can come in and do that but gotta see it at the next level first.
  • #106 by daprospecta on 07 Sep 2017
  • Not really just some highlights. I hope as a freshman he can come in and do that but gotta see it at the next level first.
    Basketball is weird in that regard.  You have 18 year olds that can play in the highest league in the sport. On the flip side, you have 18 year old that need a year to get strong etc.  Not sure where Gafford fits in those two scenarios.
  • #107 by Hawg Red on 07 Sep 2017
  • You'll see!  However, if I'm going to hedge my bet with what I said about Arlando, I have to give a hedged number: 28 wins.

    I'll definitely be sure to give you props if we win close to 28 games and make the S16.
  • #108 by Rirruto on 10 Sep 2017
  • Someone to replace Kingsley's non-stat sheet defense is key IMO. There were many missed shots or non attempts cause of his presence in the paint and who will replace him for battling on rebounds? I don't see that player on the roster so unless someone emerges the guards will have to be that much better to compensate for this.

    I can't argue with this. However, Kingsley went for a block every single time and left his guy wide open for a rebound.* He certainly caused some misses, but he was responsible for a ton of easy putbacks. Plus, I think our offense will be better without him. We tried to force him into a groove at times last year, and he looked lost.

    I loved Mo, but he's not the senior that I'm most worried about replacing. I think Trey will be better than Mo was last year.

    *also while many fans will complain about the missed travel call on Joel Berry II. It was Mo's immediate whining to the refs, giving Kennedy Meeks a window for the put back that was the real culprit.
  • #109 by Hawg Red on 10 Sep 2017
  • I can't argue with this. However, Kingsley went for a block every single time and left his guy wide open for a rebound.* He certainly caused some misses, but he was responsible for a ton of easy putbacks. Plus, I think our offense will be better without him. We tried to force him into a groove at times last year, and he looked lost.

    I loved Mo, but he's not the senior that I'm most worried about replacing. I think Trey will be better than Mo was last year.

    *also while many fans will complain about the missed travel call on Joel Berry II. It was Mo's immediate whining to the refs, giving Kennedy Meeks a window for the put back that was the real culprit.

    You think Trey will be better than Moses?

    Yikes.
  • #110 by ShadowHawg on 10 Sep 2017
  • You think Trey will be better than Moses?

    Yikes.

    They aren't the same type of player. He can do MORE things well than Mo could while still not being as good in some areas. We are better offensively with Trey because his passing adds the threat of off the ball movement leading to scoring.

    It will be different with the possibility of being better.
  • #111 by Hawg Red on 10 Sep 2017
  • They aren't the same type of player. He can do MORE things well than Mo could while still not being as good in some areas. We are better offensively with Trey because his passing adds the threat of off the ball movement leading to scoring.

    It will be different with the possibility of being better.

    Trey isn't capable of producing at the level of a starter the caliber of Moses. He doesn't have the mentality. Too passive. He's clearly skilled, but Moses played with more fire and was obviously more athletic.

    I'll be interested to see what kind of minutes Trey logs and what kind of production he turns in. He's left me feeling like he should be doing more. But Trey isn't going to give us more than Moses did, I'm afraid. His impact on the game won't be as great and his production will not even be close. He can pass better, sure. Better looking jumper, but will he look for his shot more? We're talking about a role player and a two-time All-SEC performer. No, Trey isn't going to be better than Moses by a country mile.
  • #112 by ShadowHawg on 10 Sep 2017
  • Trey isn't capable of producing at the level of a starter the caliber of Moses. He doesn't have the mentality. Too passive. He's clearly skilled, but Moses played with more fire and was obviously more athletic.

    I'll be interested to see what kind of minutes Trey logs and what kind of production he turns in. He's left me feeling like he should be doing more. But Trey isn't going to give us more than Moses did, I'm afraid. His impact on the game won't be as great and his production will not even be close. He can pass better, sure. Better looking jumper, but will he look for his shot more? We're talking about a role player and a two-time All-SEC performer. No, Trey isn't going to be better than Moses by a country mile.

    You are assigning more value to the things Moses could do but he wasn't a great scorer, facilitator, or physical low post presence.

    Their true values can't be measured in individual awards or stats but how the team performs with them in the lineup. The offense will flow better with Trey. I have no doubt about it because when Moses had the ball, he was the only person that was about to score.

    Trey isn't replacing Moses anymore than Moses replaced Bobby even though their stats were closer than Trey's will be to Kingsley's. Our best players will be made better by Trey than Moses could have made them.
  • #113 by rzrbackramsfan on 11 Sep 2017
  • Shadow has a good point, for every outside shot Moses isn't taking, Macon or barford is taking one - not a terrible thing.  Also, Moses would really demand the ball sometimes and get frustrated if he didn't, that messes with team chemistry a little bit. 

    I still think treys a drop off from mo, but there's a chance gafford won't be.
  • #114 by Pinto on 11 Sep 2017
  • You can't really compare Trey's impact to Moses because they are two different types of players. I will go on record and say Gafford will have a larger impact than Moses had by the time SEC play rolls around. Gafford will add a lot of extra possessions for us due to his ability to get offensive rebounds. He will also have a lot easy buckets due to the fact that the guards love to throw the oop to him.
  • #115 by HoopS on 11 Sep 2017
  • Can't really compare the two. Moses brought a lot of positives. There were some other areas that Trey may be able to bring more to the table. Fluidity of the offense being one. Having a big man not drifting out to cover the PG being another. Trey won't duplicate his scoring. He will do some other things though.

  • #116 by Pinto on 11 Sep 2017
  • Moses had some of the best perimeter defense for a big man though. I think we will miss ability to switch those screens and hold his own vs average guards.
  • #117 by porkinsons disease on 11 Sep 2017
  • 21-10
  • #118 by Hawg Red on 11 Sep 2017
  • Some of you are really stretching, reaching and contorting to assert/defend Trey being "better than Mo was last year." You guys are trying to say that a player who put up 2.4 points in 14 minutes last season (and figures to come off the bench again) is going to be better than Moses Kingsley was?? Y'all are weird sometimes how you'll turn on a good former Hog just to prop a current Hog up. It's really weird.

    Trey and Moses are different players. That's pretty obvious. But come on. Trey's a nice role player. Don't expect his minutes to go up much, so I'm expecting similar production to what we're used over the last two seasons.

    And if you can't compare Trey's impact to Moses' impact, how can anyone say Trey will be better than Moses was?
  • #119 by Pinto on 11 Sep 2017
  • Yeah I agree, I don't see it in Trey. I think everyone was so happy that he improved so much last season that he quickly became a fan favorite...
  • #120 by Big Nasty 34 on 11 Sep 2017
  • The offense did run much smoother with Trey on the court most of the time. A lot better movement and flow.  Now overall Moses was more valuable, but one could see how the offense will be better without him shooting outside shots that are uncalled for.
  • #121 by Pinto on 11 Sep 2017
  • The offense did run much smoother with Trey on the court most of the time. A lot better movement and flow.  Now overall Moses was more valuable, but one could see how the offense will be better without him shooting outside shots that are uncalled for.

    Hopefully Trey will have the confidence to take more shots this year. He can shoot better than what most gives him credit for. And yeah if we could hit Trey in the middle of those zones and let him facilitate, we would be a lot more efficient
  • #122 by Hawg Red on 11 Sep 2017
  • Hopefully Trey will have the confidence to take more shots this year. He can shoot better than what most gives him credit for. And yeah if we could hit Trey in the middle of those zones and let him facilitate, we would be a lot more efficient

    He can shoot better than he gives himself credit for. Just take the shot, big fella. Too passive.
  • #123 by Pinto on 11 Sep 2017
  • He can shoot better than he gives himself credit for. Just take the shot, big fella. Too passive.

    Very very true.
  • #124 by HoopS on 11 Sep 2017
  • Moses had some of the best perimeter defense for a big man though. I think we will miss ability to switch those screens and hold his own vs average guards.
    yes except it left a guard underneath trying to rebound. On a team that tends to give up too many offensive boards, I prefer my bigs to stay home. An occasional switch, sure. But again, I won't miss that aspect of his game.
  • #125 by rzrbackramsfan on 11 Sep 2017
  • Some of you are really stretching, reaching and contorting to assert/defend Trey being "better than Mo was last year." You guys are trying to say that a player who put up 2.4 points in 14 minutes last season (and figures to come off the bench again) is going to be better than Moses Kingsley was?? Y'all are weird sometimes how you'll turn on a good former Hog just to prop a current Hog up. It's really weird.

    Trey and Moses are different players. That's pretty obvious. But come on. Trey's a nice role player. Don't expect his minutes to go up much, so I'm expecting similar production to what we're used over the last two seasons.

    And if you can't compare Trey's impact to Moses' impact, how can anyone say Trey will be better than Moses was?

    Hol' up!  Some of our main points were just that trey thompson over MK means more shots from other players that are even better offensively than Mo.
  • #126 by Hawg Red on 12 Sep 2017
  • Hol' up!  Some of our main points were just that trey thompson over MK means more shots from other players that are even better offensively than Mo.

    Barford and Macon are better offensively than Moses. Dustin Thomas is not, none of the freshmen have proven to be, and Beard/Jones/Bailey have not proven to be, either.

    But aren't Macon and Barford really getting Dusty's shots? That means Moses' shots go elsewhere, to lesser players than Moses.
  • #127 by Pinto on 12 Sep 2017
  • Some of Moses shots were bad shots that led to transition buckets though. Gafford is a lot more aggressive around the bucket than Mo so i hope he gets those same amount of looks in the paint.
  • #128 by Rudy Baylor on 12 Sep 2017
  • can't be less than Sweet 16
  • #129 by ShadowHawg on 12 Sep 2017
  • Barford and Macon are better offensively than Moses. Dustin Thomas is not, none of the freshmen have proven to be, and Beard/Jones/Bailey have not proven to be, either.

    But aren't Macon and Barford really getting Dusty's shots? That means Moses' shots go elsewhere, to lesser players than Moses.

    No.
     
    Shots aren't portioned out by position anymore than players take shots by turn. You are just trying to be difficult for some reason.

    Neither Hannahs nor Kingsley got to will their shots to the next generation of hog ballers.
  • #130 by HoopS on 12 Sep 2017
  • Haha. That's kinda the way it reads.

    Maybe CJ gets some of "his" shots. Or would those be Dusty's? What about Beard? If he shoots an extra shot per game, who's was it?
  • #131 by Hawg Red on 12 Sep 2017
  • Shots are like minutes. They're going to go somewhere and you can generally tie them to positions/roles. Not a hard concept. Or are Kingsley's paint touchs going to Anton Beard instead of Trey or Gafford?

    I'm not the one being difficult.
  • #132 by rzrbackramsfan on 13 Sep 2017
  • Shots are like minutes. They're going to go somewhere and you can generally tie them to positions/roles. Not a hard concept. Or are Kingsley's paint touchs going to Anton Beard instead of Trey or Gafford?

    I'm not the one being difficult.

    Well to make it even more complex, I think the team game planned around getting some shots for Moses so he would be active on the defensive end.  Moses was worthy of that but none of the other bigs can get that type of treatment really so it might be a much faster offense where mo's shots are replaced by cutting forwards. 
  • #133 by HoopS on 13 Sep 2017
  • Shots are like minutes. They're going to go somewhere and you can generally tie them to positions/roles. Not a hard concept. Or are Kingsley's paint touchs going to Anton Beard instead of Trey or Gafford?

    I'm not the one being difficult.
    minutes are a guaranteed number. Shots depend on pace of play and approach. With new components on this team, shot count will likely vary from last year.
  • #134 by Big Nasty 34 on 13 Sep 2017
  • minutes are a guaranteed number. Shots depend on pace of play and approach. With new components on this team, shot count will likely vary from last year.

    You might be surprised. With the exception of Mike's first year where they averaged 58 FG attempts per game, his other 5 years have all averaged 60-62 FG attempts per game. So you can pretty much expect 60-62 shots a game from a CMA team.
  • #135 by HoopS on 13 Sep 2017
  • You might be surprised. With the exception of Mike's first year where they averaged 58 FG attempts per game, his other 5 years have all averaged 60-62 FG attempts per game. So you can pretty much expect 60-62 shots a game from a CMA team.
    not surprised. Just saying it isn't an exact number like minutes.
  • #136 by hog.goblin on 18 Sep 2017
  • 9 - 4 Non-conference
    11 - 7 Conference
    2 - 1 SEC Tourney

    22 - 12 Overall

    I think we struggle early on with some close losses and finish strong as the new guys gain experience.
  • #137 by Potosihog on 19 Sep 2017
  • Well we have a guaranteed road win against mizzou.

    Have you seen the 17 class their new coach put together?  Two brothers that are as high 5 stars I have seen.  Maybe you were just gigging mizzouman but Missouri is going to be very good.  He is on some big time players for 18 as well.  He had connections to the porter brothers.  If this trend in recruiting continues you might want to think Ole Miss Football.
  • #138 by rzrbackramsfan on 19 Sep 2017
  • Have you seen the 17 class their new coach put together? 

    Yes.  Only half of the 247 top 10 classes from '16 made the tournament in '17 and of course Duke, Kentucky, and Arizona were going to make the tournament.  So them being a great team is no slam dunk. 

    Quote
    Two brothers that are as high 5 stars I have seen.

    Michael Porter is actually the #2 player with Bagley reclassifying, but yes those two look very good.  Can't wait to watch Gafford battle with them.  The whole thing with Portern is that he's 6'10 with the skills of a guard, meaning he can handle it really well.  We'll see about that against Arkansas! 

     
    Quote
    Maybe you were just gigging mizzouman


    Yea I was, but I think we'll at least split with them. 

    Quote
    but Missouri is going to be very good.  He is on some big time players for 18 as well.  He had connections to the porter brothers.  If this trend in recruiting continues you might want to think Ole Miss Football.

    Nothing is really super out of the usual here like Ole Miss.  He got the main talent from hiring their parents which is legal and then got some instate talent to stay. 

    He probably will build a consistent tourney team if he can keep the talent instate. 
  • #139 by mizzouman on 20 Sep 2017
  • Yes.  Only half of the 247 top 10 classes from '16 made the tournament in '17 and of course Duke, Kentucky, and Arizona were going to make the tournament.  So them being a great team is no slam dunk. 

    Michael Porter is actually the #2 player with Bagley reclassifying, but yes those two look very good.  Can't wait to watch Gafford battle with them.  The whole thing with Portern is that he's 6'10 with the skills of a guard, meaning he can handle it really well.  We'll see about that against Arkansas! 

       

    Yea I was, but I think we'll at least split with them. 

    Nothing is really super out of the usual here like Ole Miss.  He got the main talent from hiring their parents which is legal and then got some instate talent to stay. 

    He probably will build a consistent tourney team if he can keep the talent instate. 

    Yeah, gigging me. 

    Mizzou will have players, great ones.  The Porters, Tilmon, and more.

    But, that doesn't necessarily equal wins.  First game out of the gate will be Iowa State at home.  Hard to tell how good/bad a team will be in their first game, but the arena will be packed and we will at least see if any of these guys are as advertised or if the chemistry is just not there.  We will see.
  • #140 by mizzouman on 20 Sep 2017
  • What's also interesting is that the SECT will be in STL this year.  How convenient.
  • #141 by Hawg Red on 20 Sep 2017
  • I'm looking around the SEC as the rosters, and I think the league is as wide-open as I can remember in some time. Kentucky has one returning player, basically, that actually played. Their incoming class is very good, but I'm not seeing the usual contender for the #1 overall pick or contenders for the top 5 of the NBA draft. I could honestly see the Hogs finishing anywhere in the top half of the league, including #1. I think A&M could potentially crush the conference if Hogg puts it all together and they have the PG play (jury still very much out there). I think the conference overall will be stronger than it has been in a while but it will be balanced. I see the Hogs regular season in the 19-23 win range and finishing 3-5. I think the SEC likely gets at least 5 teams in the tournament, most likely closer to 7 teams, so 3rd, 4th or 5th puts in the Dance if that's the case. How ready is Gafford and can we shoot the rock well enough are the big things with me. Those are the two things that will put us over-the-top, IMO, because we'll be more athletic and longer than we have been under Anderson (and taller at most positions). I predicted 20 wins, but that's calling a loss early to Bucknell which probably wasn't necessary. There's probably a 30, 35% chance we lose that game. I also had 2 conference road wins -- probably gonna be more like 4 there. So I'm thinking more like 23 wins than 20 right now, but I think 20 still has us in the tournament hunt with this schedule.
  • #142 by MountieDawg on 20 Sep 2017
  • To the round of 32 again...
  • #143 by ShadowHawg on 20 Sep 2017
  • To the round of 32 again...

    That will be a letdown for your cats.
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