2005: Sean McCurdy over Devan Downey

[batmanfan]

Remeber this great recruiting decision by Heath?  He let Sean commit first, even though Downey had came for a visit the weekend before, as he was very high on the Hogs.  Downey commited to Cincy, and later transfered to USC, where he is now the best point in the SEC.

How about not offering Chris Lofton a schollie while keeping Dontell Jefferson on schollie and saving one out for Big Al, even though we all knew he wasn't coming?

Lastly...what about not offering that schollie to Paul Millsap?  Insead giving it to Vince Hunter.  Oh course, Millsap is now a huge player for the Utah Jazz.

Which of these decisions was worse?  I think a Downey/Lofton backcourt would look pretty good right now.

BAT

[HawgG]

Remeber this great recruiting decision by Heath?  He let Sean commit first, even though Downey had came for a visit the weekend before, as he was very high on the Hogs.  Downey commited to Cincy, and later transfered to USC, where he is now the best point in the SEC.

How about not offering Chris Lofton a schollie while keeping Dontell Jefferson on schollie and saving one out for Big Al, even though we all knew he wasn't coming?

Lastly...what about not offering that schollie to Paul Millsap?  Insead giving it to Vince Hunter.  Oh course, Millsap is now a huge player for the Utah Jazz.

Which of these decisions was worse?  I think a Downey/Lofton backcourt would look pretty good right now.

BAT

Now I can agree on something which is bad decisions in recruiting and bad assistant coach hires.

BTW if Heath had gotten all those players he would still be the HC here and since most wanted him gone, which would you prefer, better players with Heath or like it is now?

[GAMECOCKBOY]

devan downey wasn't going to be a hog...

[HawgAdvocate]

Now I can agree on something which is bad decisions in recruiting and bad assistant coach hires.

BTW if Heath had gotten all those players he would still be the HC here and since most wanted him gone, which would you prefer, better players with Heath or like it is now?

Heath had a roster full of players who didn't respect or like him...he had a lot of talent, and couldn't get them to play up to their level. We had multiple top 20 recruiting classes, and not one top 25 finish with them.

Peace out Heath.

[StoernerJonesFan]

Heath had a roster full of players who didn't respect or like him...he had a lot of talent, and couldn't get them to play up to their level. We had multiple top 20 recruiting classes, and not one top 25 finish with them.

Peace out Heath.

Agreed.

Talent and athleticism (sp) was never lacking, it was just not properly honed in or brought up to its potential.  As nice of a guy as Heath was, he wasnt ready for an SEC-caliber/style school.  Best of luck to him anyways.

[hogfankb]

Heath had a roster full of players who didn't respect or like him...he had a lot of talent, and couldn't get them to play up to their level. We had multiple top 20 recruiting classes, and not one top 25 finish with them.

Peace out Heath.

All of that talent and top 20 classes are still here. Is Pel an average coach just like Heath or is the "these guys are talented excuse" only accepted when the arguement is against Heath?

[freethrow]

Maybe top 20 talent at a D-II school. None of them have the talent to assert themselves over an opponent even near their equal. Even with all these seniors, the CUPBOARD IS BARE.

[hogfankb]

So did Heath do a good job here just by getting them to the NCAA tourny?

[ConwayHog]

All of that talent and top 20 classes are still here. Is Pel an average coach just like Heath or is the "these guys are talented excuse" only accepted when the arguement is against Heath?

I think it's way too early to be making those judgements about Pelphrey.  I think way too many people attach themselves to a coach and thus want to get back at those who ran off their coach.  We've seen some of this happen already and we'll definitely see it for two years in football if we don't win big. 

[HawgAdvocate]

All of that talent and top 20 classes are still here. Is Pel an average coach just like Heath or is the "these guys are talented excuse" only accepted when the arguement is against Heath?

Physically, we have the talent to be a top 25 team. But mentally, there are still chemistry issues amongst the players and our PG play is obviously not very consistant. Pel is also trying to implement his uptempo style (for the future) on a team that was built to play half-court basketball. Hence why we have little to no ball-handling and one PG (Ervin) on the roster.

You can try to ride Pel into the ground all you want, but you're only kidding yourself if you do.

[ConwayHog]

So did Heath do a good job here just by getting them to the NCAA tourny?

No.  They choked when they got there.  One winning record in conference play over 5 years.  Do you want to quit defending Heath or would you rather watch me lay the hammer down as to the reasons why that man will never succeed in big time basketball?

[hogfankb]

I think it's way too early to be making those judgements about Pelphrey.  I think way too many people attach themselves to a coach and thus want to get back at those who ran off their coach.  We've seen some of this happen already and we'll definitely see it for two years in football if we don't win big. 

I am still optimistic that once he gets his players in here that we will be a solid team. I have no ties to Heath and I don't want him back even though I was probably considered a supporter of his last season. I don't like his system and he couldn't make these guys play hard like Pel has. I just thought that if we were going to change coaches that we should have gained something out of it. Even if we were still an average team maybe Pel could atleast push us over the top to win a NCAA tourny game. Now i'm not sure if we haven't gotten worse.

Physically, we have the talent to be a top 25 team. But mentally, there are still chemistry issues amongst the players and our PG play is obviously not very consistant. Pel is also trying to implement his uptempo style (for the future) on a team that was built to play half-court basketball. Hence why we have little to no ball-handling and one PG (Ervin) on the roster.

You can try to ride Pel into the ground all you want, but you're only kidding yourself if you do.

I just have trouble accepting the "wait till next year" or "these guys can't run Pels system". I thought the job of a coach was to win games not pimp his system out. It is pretty obvious he is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Everyone talks about halftime adjustments why not make midseason adjustments and start playing to your teams strengths instead of weaknesses. When he gets his players in here next year then run his system.

[chiefsfan]

Remeber this great recruiting decision by Heath?  He let Sean commit first, even though Downey had came for a visit the weekend before, as he was very high on the Hogs.  Downey commited to Cincy, and later transfered to USC, where he is now the best point in the SEC.

How about not offering Chris Lofton a schollie while keeping Dontell Jefferson on schollie and saving one out for Big Al, even though we all knew he wasn't coming?

Lastly...what about not offering that schollie to Paul Millsap?  Insead giving it to Vince Hunter.  Oh course, Millsap is now a huge player for the Utah Jazz.

Which of these decisions was worse?  I think a Downey/Lofton backcourt would look pretty good right now.

BAT

lets not talk about Lofton.  I dont blame Heath for not offering him.   The funny thing baout the Lofton story...is he was unheard of out of high school.  Arkansas State was one of the first schools and one of the few that offered him a scholly.     For some reason that most ASU fans cannot comprehend, our head coach then proceeded to call Buzz Petterson who was at Tennessee at the time, and talked about how great of a player he was, and how he couldnt believe no one had offered him

He was at Tennessee on a visit a few weeks later

I dont blame Heath for Lofton...no one saw him coming, and the one who did blabbed about it to an SEC coach

[hogfankb]

No.  They choked when they got there.  One winning record in conference play over 5 years.  Do you want to quit defending Heath or would you rather watch me lay the hammer down as to the reasons why that man will never succeed in big time basketball?

I'm not defending Heath. He couldn't win on the road. I don't think he did a very good job of filling needs through recruiting. He couldn't make these guys play hard and he had a system that was completely different than any other successful team in this conference. And he got beat by 2 teams in the NCAA tourny that were less talented top to bottom than his team. But he did make it to the tourny which is definitely still up in the air at this point even in a VERY weak SEC.

[chiefsfan]

and if this Pelphrey cant coach stuff appears after one measely SEC loss  (Like he was going to be perfect in conference or something)   Then Ill see you guys on the football board after Texas or bama beats us

Just saying

[chiefsfan]

I'm not defending Heath. He couldn't win on the road. I don't think he did a very good job of filling needs through recruiting. He couldn't make these guys play hard and he had a system that was completely different than any other successful team in this conference. And he got beat by 2 teams in the NCAA tourny that were less talented top to bottom than his team. But he did make it to the tourny which is definitely still up in the air at this point even in a VERY weak SEC.

apparently the SEC isnt as "weak" as we first thought

Dont forget this same SC team beat Providence, and gosh darn it should have killed Baylor...  They just got dumb late and blew it

[ConwayHog]

I'm not defending Heath. He couldn't win on the road. I don't think he did a very good job of filling needs through recruiting. He couldn't make these guys play hard and he had a system that was completely different than any other successful team in this conference. And he got beat by 2 teams in the NCAA tourny that were less talented top to bottom than his team. But he did make it to the tourny which is definitely still up in the air at this point even in a VERY weak SEC.

I think we're making the tournament but I don't see how we can expect much out of a team without a point guard.  Heath apparently forgot the basic rule of basketball 101.  It's like trying to win without a QB.  Wait a second, we had another coach try that as well. 

The reason most coaches get fired is due to being stubborn and/or ignorant. 

[hogfankb]

I think we're making the tournament but I don't see how we can expect much out of a team without a point guard.  Heath apparently forgot the basic rule of basketball 101.  It's like trying to win without a QB.  Wait a second, we had another coach try that as well. 

The reason most coaches get fired is due to being stubborn and/or ignorant. 

No point guard and no shooters will the death of a college basketball team. And if he had a completely new team this year so that I couldn't directly compare him to Heaths record then I would be more willing to have more optimism. But he does have the exact same players as Heath and he is doing as much if not less with them.  I wouldn't expect even coach K to come in here and turn this talent into NC contenders but I would expect him to win more games than Heath.

Not that I am anywhere near suggesting Pel even be close to being on the hotseat but wouldn't you call trying to fit your system around players that it obviously won't work with being stubborn?

[Hogdomer]

I think way too many people attach themselves to a coach and thus want to get back at those who ran off their coach.  We've seen some of this happen already and we'll definitely see it for two years in football if we don't win big. 

I don't think this applies to Heath.  There can't be more than 3 people that were really attached to Heath with any kind of passion. 

He had no personality, he wasn't a native and, most importantly, he didn't have much success.  Nutt had at least a modicum of success and his teams, though wildly inconsistent, had a few big wins.  He is also from Arkansas. 

[Cresthog]

devan downey wasn't going to be a hog...

At that time he wasn't going to be a gamecock either. Cincy, Texas, Arkansas, Tennessee and Illinois were his final five before committing to Cincy. Then he transfered.

[HawgAdvocate]

I just have trouble accepting the "wait till next year" or "these guys can't run Pels system". I thought the job of a coach was to win games not pimp his system out. It is pretty obvious he is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. Everyone talks about halftime adjustments why not make midseason adjustments and start playing to your teams strengths instead of weaknesses. When he gets his players in here next year then run his system.

His job is to win games. No one coaches to lose. He's not Stan heath, and wasn't hired to run Stan Heath's offense and defense. He's paid to coach his way, not the way of someone else. Even though we have a bunch of seniors, we still have underclassman who will be running Pel's preferred style of play next season, and these kids need to learn now, not as soon as March Madness is over. He's not trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. If that were the case then you'd be seeing Rakestraw and Patsatsia playing more (more 3-guard sets), and Steven Hill playing less.

We don't have good ball-handlers. Much like Petrino, Pel needed to honor the commitment of Rakestraw. He's going to take and him and try to make him more than a great outside shooter.

Suck it up, cheer the Hogs, and get ready for NCAA Tourney play. We've got 4 losses. Things could be a lot worse. It's not the end of the world.

[Hooter]

No heart and a very low basketball IQ on this team.  I don't think that their previous work ethic allowed them to progress.  Heath had many players that were no better when they left than when they arrived.  I just don't think that our team this year is very smart and it shows.

[hillhog]

What I could/can not get over is the way Downey continously would leave our "defenders" standing flatfooted/nailed to the floor while he went around them and shot a layup. I'm 67 and I could have guarded him as well.

[HawgG]

This thread will be bookmarked for later when I'm sure it will come into play.

So much material to use, thanks alot.

[GAMECOCKBOY]

apparently the SEC isnt as "weak" as we first thought

Dont forget this same SC team beat Providence, and gosh darn it should have killed Baylor...  They just got dumb late and blew it

we did get dumb late but also baylor was very hott and kept hitting 3s....out of all the teams we should of beaten baylor was not the team...baylor was on fire from 3 that nite...

[GAMECOCKBOY]

What I could/can not get over is the way Downey continously would leave our "defenders" standing flatfooted/nailed to the floor while he went around them and shot a layup. I'm 67 and I could have guarded him as well.

downey is one of the fastest pgs u will ever see...a player that he looks up tooand would love to play against is allen iverson...coming out of high school some compared him to high school...he is the best pg in the sec and i would say top 5 in the nation.,...

[GAMECOCKBOY]

At that time he wasn't going to be a gamecock either. Cincy, Texas, Arkansas, Tennessee and Illinois were his final five before committing to Cincy. Then he transfered.

he would have been a gamecock if he didn't get in fight with jealous kids at his school..his dad was the one to tell him to leave this state so he won't get in trouble...

[craftyhog]

top 20 talent my a$$!!!! PBev and Weems and hopefully Washington one day. That's it. Don't get me wrong they all show flashes occasionally, but occasional flashes just don't cut it. There will be no drop off next year. We will be as good and probably better with a bunch of frosh than we are now as a Sr. laden (or burdened) team.